Isn't that guidance way below guidance for the same period last year? I know it was missed spectacularly but this year's offering is a lot better than last year's and services should grow by a couple of billion.
Yeah, we know, we know, you keep reminding us that Apple is failing and their apparent success is an illusion. Thanks for pointing out the negative in everything.
He said that iOS for iPad is kinda-sorta decent and isn't completely shit… which shows that he's credible and objective in his Apple bashing. LOL
Avon b7 must not realize that iPad has its own OS.
I certainly am not the one to post a massive retort about Huawei's margins, nor Huawei's ASP compared to Apple's margins and ASP respectively for iPhones.
Hint: Huawei compares very unfavorably.
1. You misquoted me from a past comment (not surprising at all). iPad OS didn't exist then.
2. My iPad Mini 2 runs iOS 8 for varying reasons and will never see iPad OS.
3. ASP is irrelevant from a consumer perspective.
4. Even with a lower ASP, Huawei is doing just fine. Almost always topping Apple in R&D.
Isn't that guidance way below guidance for the same period last year? I know it was missed spectacularly but this year's offering is a lot better than last year's and services should grow by a couple of billion.
86 million shares retired through open market repurchases at $209.30 per share. That’s a pretty good use of cash if you ask this long-term shareholder.
Yep, i plan to be last man standing with my shares, Those who hold will be rewarded.
Just don’t be greedy. Many times I waited for the final outcome only to end up with a loss.
Well, if you had been patient and held Apple into the last few days you would surely have had a better final outcome
Isn't that guidance way below guidance for the same period last year? I know it was missed spectacularly but this year's offering is a lot better than last year's and services should grow by a couple of billion.
Yeah, we know, we know, you keep reminding us that Apple is failing and their apparent success is an illusion. Thanks for pointing out the negative in everything.
He said that iOS for iPad is kinda-sorta decent and isn't completely shit… which shows that he's credible and objective in his Apple bashing. LOL
Avon b7 must not realize that iPad has its own OS.
I certainly am not the one to post a massive retort about Huawei's margins, nor Huawei's ASP compared to Apple's margins and ASP respectively for iPhones.
Hint: Huawei compares very unfavorably.
1. You misquoted me from a past comment (not surprising at all). iPad OS didn't exist then.
2. My iPad Mini 2 runs iOS 8 for varying reasons and will never see iPad OS.
3. ASP is irrelevant from a consumer perspective.
4. Even with a lower ASP, Huawei is doing just fine. Almost always topping Apple in R&D.
Ah, the old R&D.
Firstly, only a little over half of the Huawei's revenue comes from consumer electronics, so Apple does in fact have much more R&D devoted to consumer electronics. The rest is telecom, surveillance, and server products, not to mention that Huawei is nominally a State Owned Enterprise so is in no way comparable to a "private company" in the West.
Secondly, Huawei typically has margins in the 8% range where Apple's are notable in the quarterly report for being in the range of 38%. Hence why profits are massively different for each operation, and why Huawei phones sales, a bit larger in number than Apple's per year, aren't close in revenue, being a bit more than half of what Apple generates off the iPhone alone.
You embarrass yourself by stating that ASP is "irrelevant from a consumer perspective" as we are specifically speaking of a quarterly report for Apple, where in fact, ASP is entirely relevant.
I would note that you are running an iPad Mini 2, originally released in 2013 running iOS 8 for "varying reasons", and yet the other day, you waxed poetic about the Huawei M7
"BERLIN — A group of MPs from Angela Merkel’s center-right Christian Democratic Union (CDU) is pressing the German chancellor to keep Chinese telecom company Huawei out of the country's 5G network, citing national security reasons.
The push comes after Berlin last week released a new "security catalogue" for telecoms networks, which critics say lacks teeth because it only obliges Huawei to sign a "no spy" clause while generally opening 5G tenders to the Chinese telecoms giant.
Merkel has come under fire for her decision from allies like the U.S., which warned last week the move could have serious implications for future intelligence-sharing between Berlin and Washington.
Critics say Germany is bowing to pressure from China because it fears trade retaliation from the Asian powerhouse, which is Germany's biggest trading partner and an important export destination at a time when the German economy risks sliding into a recession.
Senior CDU lawmaker Norbert Röttgen told POLITICO that he wants Merkel not to decide alone on the 5G issue, but submit the decision to the German parliament, which should debate and vote on the case."
Meanwhile, the U.S. is encouraging the EU to build out using core telecom equipment from Finland and Sweden, ie, Ericsson and Nokia.
iPhone sales down $22 billion YOY... These high margin services and accessories are for iPhones... Market share arround 10-11% - Numbers better bounce soon.
Isn't that guidance way below guidance for the same period last year? I know it was missed spectacularly but this year's offering is a lot better than last year's and services should grow by a couple of billion.
Yeah, we know, we know, you keep reminding us that Apple is failing and their apparent success is an illusion. Thanks for pointing out the negative in everything.
He said that iOS for iPad is kinda-sorta decent and isn't completely shit… which shows that he's credible and objective in his Apple bashing. LOL
Avon b7 must not realize that iPad has its own OS.
I certainly am not the one to post a massive retort about Huawei's margins, nor Huawei's ASP compared to Apple's margins and ASP respectively for iPhones.
Hint: Huawei compares very unfavorably.
1. You misquoted me from a past comment (not surprising at all). iPad OS didn't exist then.
2. My iPad Mini 2 runs iOS 8 for varying reasons and will never see iPad OS.
3. ASP is irrelevant from a consumer perspective.
4. Even with a lower ASP, Huawei is doing just fine. Almost always topping Apple in R&D.
Ah, the old R&D.
Firstly, only a little over half of the Huawei's revenue comes from consumer electronics, so Apple does in fact have much more R&D devoted to consumer electronics. The rest is telecom, surveillance, and server products, not to mention that Huawei is nominally a State Owned Enterprise so is in no way comparable to a "private company" in the West.
Secondly, Huawei typically has margins in the 8% range where Apple's are notable in the quarterly report for being in the range of 38%. Hence why profits are massively different for each operation, and why Huawei phones sales, a bit larger in number than Apple's per year, aren't close in revenue, being a bit more than half of what Apple generates off the iPhone alone.
You embarrass yourself by stating that ASP is "irrelevant from a consumer perspective" as we are specifically speaking of a quarterly report for Apple, where in fact, ASP is entirely relevant.
I would note that you are running an iPad Mini 2, originally released in 2013 running iOS 8 for "varying reasons", and yet the other day, you waxed poetic about the Huawei M7
"BERLIN — A group of MPs from Angela Merkel’s center-right Christian Democratic Union (CDU) is pressing the German chancellor to keep Chinese telecom company Huawei out of the country's 5G network, citing national security reasons.
The push comes after Berlin last week released a new "security catalogue" for telecoms networks, which critics say lacks teeth because it only obliges Huawei to sign a "no spy" clause while generally opening 5G tenders to the Chinese telecoms giant.
Merkel has come under fire for her decision from allies like the U.S., which warned last week the move could have serious implications for future intelligence-sharing between Berlin and Washington.
Critics say Germany is bowing to pressure from China because it fears trade retaliation from the Asian powerhouse, which is Germany's biggest trading partner and an important export destination at a time when the German economy risks sliding into a recession.
Senior CDU lawmaker Norbert Röttgen told POLITICO that he wants Merkel not to decide alone on the 5G issue, but submit the decision to the German parliament, which should debate and vote on the case."
Meanwhile, the U.S. is encouraging the EU to build out using core telecom equipment from Finland and Sweden, ie, Ericsson and Nokia.
Huawei's R&D is heavily intertwined throughout its entire business. That means things like an Ascend 900 AI training cluster and a lot of the development (hardware and software) leads to a family of chips that scales down to use in earbuds, passing through everything in between (watches, phones, etc). It means that key developments in lithium batteries, charging technologies etc also end up in consumer products. telecommunications advances end up in phones, routers and other consumer equipment.
You never fail to bring politics into this, which is highly irrelevant now that more Trump's bluff was called and he himself has problems of his own.
That said, the U.S is not 'encouraging' allies to do this or that, it is threatening outright. Governments have largely not liked that attitude and said we'll do our own thing and on our own terms.
Why did you associate Huawei doing 'just fine' with the situation in Germany? Doing just fine means that although Trump tried to cripple the company, sales and revenues are still strong and they have signed more than 60 5G contracts.
ASP is completely and utterly irrelevant from a consumer perspective. It's consumers that buy the products remember, not investors. If iPhone revenues are down YoY it's not because ASP was in the minds of consumers. The problem (the sale) lies with them: the consumers.
You seem to be overusing the term 'wax poetic'. Please quote me (in context). What did I say? Where is the problem? What are the odds that you are misquoting me or twisting things? Very high? Extremely high?
Isn't that guidance way below guidance for the same period last year? I know it was missed spectacularly but this year's offering is a lot better than last year's and services should grow by a couple of billion.
Yeah, we know, we know, you keep reminding us that Apple is failing and their apparent success is an illusion. Thanks for pointing out the negative in everything.
He said that iOS for iPad is kinda-sorta decent and isn't completely shit… which shows that he's credible and objective in his Apple bashing. LOL
Avon b7 must not realize that iPad has its own OS.
I certainly am not the one to post a massive retort about Huawei's margins, nor Huawei's ASP compared to Apple's margins and ASP respectively for iPhones.
Hint: Huawei compares very unfavorably.
1. You misquoted me from a past comment (not surprising at all). iPad OS didn't exist then.
2. My iPad Mini 2 runs iOS 8 for varying reasons and will never see iPad OS.
3. ASP is irrelevant from a consumer perspective.
4. Even with a lower ASP, Huawei is doing just fine. Almost always topping Apple in R&D.
Ah, the old R&D.
Firstly, only a little over half of the Huawei's revenue comes from consumer electronics, so Apple does in fact have much more R&D devoted to consumer electronics. The rest is telecom, surveillance, and server products, not to mention that Huawei is nominally a State Owned Enterprise so is in no way comparable to a "private company" in the West.
Secondly, Huawei typically has margins in the 8% range where Apple's are notable in the quarterly report for being in the range of 38%. Hence why profits are massively different for each operation, and why Huawei phones sales, a bit larger in number than Apple's per year, aren't close in revenue, being a bit more than half of what Apple generates off the iPhone alone.
You embarrass yourself by stating that ASP is "irrelevant from a consumer perspective" as we are specifically speaking of a quarterly report for Apple, where in fact, ASP is entirely relevant.
I would note that you are running an iPad Mini 2, originally released in 2013 running iOS 8 for "varying reasons", and yet the other day, you waxed poetic about the Huawei M7
"BERLIN — A group of MPs from Angela Merkel’s center-right Christian Democratic Union (CDU) is pressing the German chancellor to keep Chinese telecom company Huawei out of the country's 5G network, citing national security reasons.
The push comes after Berlin last week released a new "security catalogue" for telecoms networks, which critics say lacks teeth because it only obliges Huawei to sign a "no spy" clause while generally opening 5G tenders to the Chinese telecoms giant.
Merkel has come under fire for her decision from allies like the U.S., which warned last week the move could have serious implications for future intelligence-sharing between Berlin and Washington.
Critics say Germany is bowing to pressure from China because it fears trade retaliation from the Asian powerhouse, which is Germany's biggest trading partner and an important export destination at a time when the German economy risks sliding into a recession.
Senior CDU lawmaker Norbert Röttgen told POLITICO that he wants Merkel not to decide alone on the 5G issue, but submit the decision to the German parliament, which should debate and vote on the case."
Meanwhile, the U.S. is encouraging the EU to build out using core telecom equipment from Finland and Sweden, ie, Ericsson and Nokia.
Huawei's R&D is heavily intertwined throughout its entire business. That means things like an Ascend 900 AI training cluster and a lot of the development (hardware and software) leads to a family of chips that scales down to use in earbuds, passing through everything in between (watches, phones, etc). It means that key developments in lithium batteries, charging technologies etc also end up in consumer products. telecommunications advances end up in phones, routers and other consumer equipment.
You never fail to bring politics into this, which is highly irrelevant now that more Trump's bluff was called and he himself has problems of his own.
That said, the U.S is not 'encouraging' allies to do this or that, it is threatening outright. Governments have largely not liked that attitude and said we'll do our own thing and on our own terms.
Why did you associate Huawei doing 'just fine' with the situation in Germany? Doing just fine means that although Trump tried to cripple the company, sales and revenues are still strong and they have signed more than 60 5G contracts.
ASP is completely and utterly irrelevant from a consumer perspective. It's consumers that buy the products remember, not investors. If iPhone revenues are down YoY it's not because ASP was in the minds of consumers. The problem (the sale) lies with them: the consumers.
You seem to be overusing the term 'wax poetic'. Please quote me (in context). What did I say? Where is the problem? What are the odds that you are misquoting me or twisting things? Very high? Extremely high?
Misleading again.
Germany has not signed any contracts with Huawei for 5G, and those "60" 5G contracts are worldwide, including many emerging countries who are less concerned about security than most of the countries in the EU.
What I don't understand, is why you would not advocate for Nokia and Ericsson to buildout 5G in the EU. They aren't lacking for any IP or technology to do so.
Hence, why I think you have your head up Huawei's ass.
Given that Apple will likely sell some 190 million iPhones in FY2020 vs 230 million Huawei, I'm not seeing how low margins and low ASP is giving Huawei any comparable earnings to Apple, and hence, why it reinforces my opinion that Huawei is in fact a State Owned Enterprise, with massive subsidies from the government.
That in itself, plus various specific laws in China, create a risk that many countries, especially the U.S. and Australia today, are not willing to make by allowing Huawei in their 5G buildups. That so many EU countries, plus Canada and New Zealand, are still formulating their security approach to core 5G buildout at this late date is telling.
Worse for Huawei, there is the ongoing protests in Hong Kong that are eliciting support from most of the Five Eyes countries, along with the massive human rights violations of Muslims and other religious minorities in China. China's efforts against any country that supports independence for Taiwan, or the Hong Kong protests, or response to human rights violations, is creating a backlash against China, that will as well have an effect on Huawei's 5G. Hostage taking by the Chinese Government of Westerners in China is certainly not helping matters.
As for ASP, yeah consumers don't care, but investors do, excepting when that investor is the Chinese Government, who only want market domination.
iPhone sales down $22 billion YOY... These high margin services and accessories are for iPhones... Market share arround 10-11% - Numbers better bounce soon.
Isn't that guidance way below guidance for the same period last year? I know it was missed spectacularly but this year's offering is a lot better than last year's and services should grow by a couple of billion.
Yeah, we know, we know, you keep reminding us that Apple is failing and their apparent success is an illusion. Thanks for pointing out the negative in everything.
He said that iOS for iPad is kinda-sorta decent and isn't completely shit… which shows that he's credible and objective in his Apple bashing. LOL
Avon b7 must not realize that iPad has its own OS.
I certainly am not the one to post a massive retort about Huawei's margins, nor Huawei's ASP compared to Apple's margins and ASP respectively for iPhones.
Hint: Huawei compares very unfavorably.
1. You misquoted me from a past comment (not surprising at all). iPad OS didn't exist then.
2. My iPad Mini 2 runs iOS 8 for varying reasons and will never see iPad OS.
3. ASP is irrelevant from a consumer perspective.
4. Even with a lower ASP, Huawei is doing just fine. Almost always topping Apple in R&D.
Ah, the old R&D.
Firstly, only a little over half of the Huawei's revenue comes from consumer electronics, so Apple does in fact have much more R&D devoted to consumer electronics. The rest is telecom, surveillance, and server products, not to mention that Huawei is nominally a State Owned Enterprise so is in no way comparable to a "private company" in the West.
Secondly, Huawei typically has margins in the 8% range where Apple's are notable in the quarterly report for being in the range of 38%. Hence why profits are massively different for each operation, and why Huawei phones sales, a bit larger in number than Apple's per year, aren't close in revenue, being a bit more than half of what Apple generates off the iPhone alone.
You embarrass yourself by stating that ASP is "irrelevant from a consumer perspective" as we are specifically speaking of a quarterly report for Apple, where in fact, ASP is entirely relevant.
I would note that you are running an iPad Mini 2, originally released in 2013 running iOS 8 for "varying reasons", and yet the other day, you waxed poetic about the Huawei M7
"BERLIN — A group of MPs from Angela Merkel’s center-right Christian Democratic Union (CDU) is pressing the German chancellor to keep Chinese telecom company Huawei out of the country's 5G network, citing national security reasons.
The push comes after Berlin last week released a new "security catalogue" for telecoms networks, which critics say lacks teeth because it only obliges Huawei to sign a "no spy" clause while generally opening 5G tenders to the Chinese telecoms giant.
Merkel has come under fire for her decision from allies like the U.S., which warned last week the move could have serious implications for future intelligence-sharing between Berlin and Washington.
Critics say Germany is bowing to pressure from China because it fears trade retaliation from the Asian powerhouse, which is Germany's biggest trading partner and an important export destination at a time when the German economy risks sliding into a recession.
Senior CDU lawmaker Norbert Röttgen told POLITICO that he wants Merkel not to decide alone on the 5G issue, but submit the decision to the German parliament, which should debate and vote on the case."
Meanwhile, the U.S. is encouraging the EU to build out using core telecom equipment from Finland and Sweden, ie, Ericsson and Nokia.
Huawei's R&D is heavily intertwined throughout its entire business. That means things like an Ascend 900 AI training cluster and a lot of the development (hardware and software) leads to a family of chips that scales down to use in earbuds, passing through everything in between (watches, phones, etc). It means that key developments in lithium batteries, charging technologies etc also end up in consumer products. telecommunications advances end up in phones, routers and other consumer equipment.
You never fail to bring politics into this, which is highly irrelevant now that more Trump's bluff was called and he himself has problems of his own.
That said, the U.S is not 'encouraging' allies to do this or that, it is threatening outright. Governments have largely not liked that attitude and said we'll do our own thing and on our own terms.
Why did you associate Huawei doing 'just fine' with the situation in Germany? Doing just fine means that although Trump tried to cripple the company, sales and revenues are still strong and they have signed more than 60 5G contracts.
ASP is completely and utterly irrelevant from a consumer perspective. It's consumers that buy the products remember, not investors. If iPhone revenues are down YoY it's not because ASP was in the minds of consumers. The problem (the sale) lies with them: the consumers.
You seem to be overusing the term 'wax poetic'. Please quote me (in context). What did I say? Where is the problem? What are the odds that you are misquoting me or twisting things? Very high? Extremely high?
Misleading again.
Germany has not signed any contracts with Huawei for 5G, and those "60" 5G contracts are worldwide, including many emerging countries who are less concerned about security than most of the countries in the EU.
What I don't understand, is why you would not advocate for Nokia and Ericsson to buildout 5G in the EU. They aren't lacking for any IP or technology to do so.
Hence, why I think you have your head up Huawei's ass.
Given that Apple will likely sell some 190 million iPhones in FY2020 vs 230 million Huawei, I'm not seeing how low margins and low ASP is giving Huawei any comparable earnings to Apple, and hence, why it reinforces my opinion that Huawei is in fact a State Owned Enterprise, with massive subsidies from the government.
That in itself, plus various specific laws in China, create a risk that many countries, especially the U.S. and Australia today, are not willing to make by allowing Huawei in their 5G buildups. That so many EU countries, plus Canada and New Zealand, are still formulating their security approach to core 5G buildout at this late date is telling.
Worse for Huawei, there is the ongoing protests in Hong Kong that are eliciting support from most of the Five Eyes countries, along with the massive human rights violations of Muslims and other religious minorities in China. China's efforts against any country that supports independence for Taiwan, or the Hong Kong protests, or response to human rights violations, is creating a backlash against China, that will as well have an effect on Huawei's 5G. Hostage taking by the Chinese Government of Westerners in China is certainly not helping matters.
As for ASP, yeah consumers don't care, but investors do, excepting when that investor is the Chinese Government, who only want market domination.
Re-read the thread.
I didn't bring Huawei into this - you did!
I simply replied.
I didn't bring politics into this - you did!
I don't advocate for Huawei, Nokia or Ericsson. There is no need, but of the three, only Huawei is a direct competitor of Apple and as a result pops up here. When that happens, people can go overboard and, as a Huawei and Apple user, I can put some contrast back into things.
Here is an example from your good self:
"Germany has not signed any contracts with Huawei for 5G, and those "60" 5G contracts are worldwide, including many emerging countries who are less concerned about security than most of the countries in the EU."
Perhaps you have more information than me so I will ask you to flesh that point out a bit.
Are you implying that there are very few carriers in Europe signing with Huawei for 5G? The reason I ask is that when they reached 50 contracts, more than half were with European carriers. Nearly 60% in fact. Are you suggesting they are less concerned about security?
I find it ironic that that snippet from you came directly after your accusation that I was misleading!
You say the difference between Huawei's unit sales and Apple's isn't that great but ignore the importance of the fact. Just a few short years ago there was a duopoly (Apple and Samsung). Huawei not only broke that duopoly, disbanking Apple for the first time in years, but would have probably overtaken Samsung this year if it wasn't for Trump.
No sir, I am not misleading anyone.
If we are discussing Apple's flat or decreasing shipments it's because someone out there has been topping Apple and not only now. That someone is Huawei. Shipping flagships that have upped the bar. In short, competition. Apple didn't reduce prices as a gift, you know. It had to!
Isn't that guidance way below guidance for the same period last year? I know it was missed spectacularly but this year's offering is a lot better than last year's and services should grow by a couple of billion.
Yeah, we know, we know, you keep reminding us that Apple is failing and their apparent success is an illusion. Thanks for pointing out the negative in everything.
He said that iOS for iPad is kinda-sorta decent and isn't completely shit… which shows that he's credible and objective in his Apple bashing. LOL
Avon b7 must not realize that iPad has its own OS.
I certainly am not the one to post a massive retort about Huawei's margins, nor Huawei's ASP compared to Apple's margins and ASP respectively for iPhones.
Hint: Huawei compares very unfavorably.
1. You misquoted me from a past comment (not surprising at all). iPad OS didn't exist then.
2. My iPad Mini 2 runs iOS 8 for varying reasons and will never see iPad OS.
3. ASP is irrelevant from a consumer perspective.
4. Even with a lower ASP, Huawei is doing just fine. Almost always topping Apple in R&D.
Ah, the old R&D.
Firstly, only a little over half of the Huawei's revenue comes from consumer electronics, so Apple does in fact have much more R&D devoted to consumer electronics. The rest is telecom, surveillance, and server products, not to mention that Huawei is nominally a State Owned Enterprise so is in no way comparable to a "private company" in the West.
Secondly, Huawei typically has margins in the 8% range where Apple's are notable in the quarterly report for being in the range of 38%. Hence why profits are massively different for each operation, and why Huawei phones sales, a bit larger in number than Apple's per year, aren't close in revenue, being a bit more than half of what Apple generates off the iPhone alone.
You embarrass yourself by stating that ASP is "irrelevant from a consumer perspective" as we are specifically speaking of a quarterly report for Apple, where in fact, ASP is entirely relevant.
I would note that you are running an iPad Mini 2, originally released in 2013 running iOS 8 for "varying reasons", and yet the other day, you waxed poetic about the Huawei M7
"BERLIN — A group of MPs from Angela Merkel’s center-right Christian Democratic Union (CDU) is pressing the German chancellor to keep Chinese telecom company Huawei out of the country's 5G network, citing national security reasons.
The push comes after Berlin last week released a new "security catalogue" for telecoms networks, which critics say lacks teeth because it only obliges Huawei to sign a "no spy" clause while generally opening 5G tenders to the Chinese telecoms giant.
Merkel has come under fire for her decision from allies like the U.S., which warned last week the move could have serious implications for future intelligence-sharing between Berlin and Washington.
Critics say Germany is bowing to pressure from China because it fears trade retaliation from the Asian powerhouse, which is Germany's biggest trading partner and an important export destination at a time when the German economy risks sliding into a recession.
Senior CDU lawmaker Norbert Röttgen told POLITICO that he wants Merkel not to decide alone on the 5G issue, but submit the decision to the German parliament, which should debate and vote on the case."
Meanwhile, the U.S. is encouraging the EU to build out using core telecom equipment from Finland and Sweden, ie, Ericsson and Nokia.
Huawei's R&D is heavily intertwined throughout its entire business. That means things like an Ascend 900 AI training cluster and a lot of the development (hardware and software) leads to a family of chips that scales down to use in earbuds, passing through everything in between (watches, phones, etc). It means that key developments in lithium batteries, charging technologies etc also end up in consumer products. telecommunications advances end up in phones, routers and other consumer equipment.
You never fail to bring politics into this, which is highly irrelevant now that more Trump's bluff was called and he himself has problems of his own.
That said, the U.S is not 'encouraging' allies to do this or that, it is threatening outright. Governments have largely not liked that attitude and said we'll do our own thing and on our own terms.
Why did you associate Huawei doing 'just fine' with the situation in Germany? Doing just fine means that although Trump tried to cripple the company, sales and revenues are still strong and they have signed more than 60 5G contracts.
ASP is completely and utterly irrelevant from a consumer perspective. It's consumers that buy the products remember, not investors. If iPhone revenues are down YoY it's not because ASP was in the minds of consumers. The problem (the sale) lies with them: the consumers.
You seem to be overusing the term 'wax poetic'. Please quote me (in context). What did I say? Where is the problem? What are the odds that you are misquoting me or twisting things? Very high? Extremely high?
Misleading again.
Germany has not signed any contracts with Huawei for 5G, and those "60" 5G contracts are worldwide, including many emerging countries who are less concerned about security than most of the countries in the EU.
What I don't understand, is why you would not advocate for Nokia and Ericsson to buildout 5G in the EU. They aren't lacking for any IP or technology to do so.
Hence, why I think you have your head up Huawei's ass.
Given that Apple will likely sell some 190 million iPhones in FY2020 vs 230 million Huawei, I'm not seeing how low margins and low ASP is giving Huawei any comparable earnings to Apple, and hence, why it reinforces my opinion that Huawei is in fact a State Owned Enterprise, with massive subsidies from the government.
That in itself, plus various specific laws in China, create a risk that many countries, especially the U.S. and Australia today, are not willing to make by allowing Huawei in their 5G buildups. That so many EU countries, plus Canada and New Zealand, are still formulating their security approach to core 5G buildout at this late date is telling.
Worse for Huawei, there is the ongoing protests in Hong Kong that are eliciting support from most of the Five Eyes countries, along with the massive human rights violations of Muslims and other religious minorities in China. China's efforts against any country that supports independence for Taiwan, or the Hong Kong protests, or response to human rights violations, is creating a backlash against China, that will as well have an effect on Huawei's 5G. Hostage taking by the Chinese Government of Westerners in China is certainly not helping matters.
As for ASP, yeah consumers don't care, but investors do, excepting when that investor is the Chinese Government, who only want market domination.
Re-read the thread.
I didn't bring Huawei into this - you did!
I simply replied.
I didn't bring politics into this - you did!
I don't advocate for Huawei, Nokia or Ericsson. There is no need, but of the three, only Huawei is a direct competitor of Apple and as a result pops up here. When that happens, people can go overboard and, as a Huawei and Apple user, I can put some contrast back into things.
Here is an example from your good self:
"Germany has not signed any contracts with Huawei for 5G, and those "60" 5G contracts are worldwide, including many emerging countries who are less concerned about security than most of the countries in the EU."
Perhaps you have more information than me so I will ask you to flesh that point out a bit.
Are you implying that there are very few carriers in Europe signing with Huawei for 5G? The reason I ask is that when they reached 50 contracts, more than half were with European carriers. Nearly 60% in fact. Are you suggesting they are less concerned about security?
I find it ironic that that snippet from you came directly after your accusation that I was misleading!
You say the difference between Huawei's unit sales and Apple's isn't that great but ignore the importance of the fact. Just a few short years ago there was a duopoly (Apple and Samsung). Huawei not only broke that duopoly, disbanking Apple for the first time in years, but would have probably overtaken Samsung this year if it wasn't for Trump.
No sir, I am not misleading anyone.
If we are discussing Apple's flat or decreasing shipments it's because someone out there has been topping Apple and not only now. That someone is Huawei. Shipping flagships that have upped the bar. In short, competition. Apple didn't reduce prices as a gift, you know. It had to!
I happily bring in politics when it is relevant.
Politics is certainly relevant to 5G buildout in the EU. I linked to an article indicating that German Security agencies were not happy about Merkel deciding to allow Huawei into core 5G infrastructure, and the indication is that the German Parliament might force a vote on that issue. Given that Germany's population is above 80 million, Germany is considered the keystone market for telecommunications, as well as a senior security partner in NATO.
As for Huawei competing with Apple in smartphone sales, I agreed that Huawei sold more, but also made considerably less revenue and profit from those sales, due to low margins and low ASP's compared to Apple. That Trump killed Huawei's aspiration is due as much to its close links to the CCP as it is to the trade war. You continue to be in denial about the CCP control of companies in China.
You probably fail to realize that China applied broad economic pressure to South Korea, and especially Samsung, beginning in 2016 when the U.S. deployed THAAD in South Korea. Samsung is rebounding now thanks to the tables being turned by Trump.
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People asking for Tim Cook’s head don’t care about performance.
2. My iPad Mini 2 runs iOS 8 for varying reasons and will never see iPad OS.
3. ASP is irrelevant from a consumer perspective.
4. Even with a lower ASP, Huawei is doing just fine. Almost always topping Apple in R&D.
Firstly, only a little over half of the Huawei's revenue comes from consumer electronics, so Apple does in fact have much more R&D devoted to consumer electronics. The rest is telecom, surveillance, and server products, not to mention that Huawei is nominally a State Owned Enterprise so is in no way comparable to a "private company" in the West.
Secondly, Huawei typically has margins in the 8% range where Apple's are notable in the quarterly report for being in the range of 38%. Hence why profits are massively different for each operation, and why Huawei phones sales, a bit larger in number than Apple's per year, aren't close in revenue, being a bit more than half of what Apple generates off the iPhone alone.
You embarrass yourself by stating that ASP is "irrelevant from a consumer perspective" as we are specifically speaking of a quarterly report for Apple, where in fact, ASP is entirely relevant.
I would note that you are running an iPad Mini 2, originally released in 2013 running iOS 8 for "varying reasons", and yet the other day, you waxed poetic about the Huawei M7
https://www.xda-developers.com/huawei-mediapad-m7-first-android-tablet-with-hole-punch-display/
Well, iPad OS 13 is what you would get with a new iPad Mini 5, as if the hole punch display is even relevant to the comparison.
Oh, and of course Huawei is doing "just fine":
https://www.politico.eu/article/german-mps-huawei-5g-network-germany-angela-merkel/
"BERLIN — A group of MPs from Angela Merkel’s center-right Christian Democratic Union (CDU) is pressing the German chancellor to keep Chinese telecom company Huawei out of the country's 5G network, citing national security reasons.
The push comes after Berlin last week released a new "security catalogue" for telecoms networks, which critics say lacks teeth because it only obliges Huawei to sign a "no spy" clause while generally opening 5G tenders to the Chinese telecoms giant.
Merkel has come under fire for her decision from allies like the U.S., which warned last week the move could have serious implications for future intelligence-sharing between Berlin and Washington.
Critics say Germany is bowing to pressure from China because it fears trade retaliation from the Asian powerhouse, which is Germany's biggest trading partner and an important export destination at a time when the German economy risks sliding into a recession.
Senior CDU lawmaker Norbert Röttgen told POLITICO that he wants Merkel not to decide alone on the 5G issue, but submit the decision to the German parliament, which should debate and vote on the case."
Meanwhile, the U.S. is encouraging the EU to build out using core telecom equipment from Finland and Sweden, ie, Ericsson and Nokia.
You never fail to bring politics into this, which is highly irrelevant now that more Trump's bluff was called and he himself has problems of his own.
That said, the U.S is not 'encouraging' allies to do this or that, it is threatening outright. Governments have largely not liked that attitude and said we'll do our own thing and on our own terms.
Why did you associate Huawei doing 'just fine' with the situation in Germany? Doing just fine means that although Trump tried to cripple the company, sales and revenues are still strong and they have signed more than 60 5G contracts.
ASP is completely and utterly irrelevant from a consumer perspective. It's consumers that buy the products remember, not investors. If iPhone revenues are down YoY it's not because ASP was in the minds of consumers. The problem (the sale) lies with them: the consumers.
You seem to be overusing the term 'wax poetic'. Please quote me (in context). What did I say? Where is the problem? What are the odds that you are misquoting me or twisting things? Very high? Extremely high?
Germany has not signed any contracts with Huawei for 5G, and those "60" 5G contracts are worldwide, including many emerging countries who are less concerned about security than most of the countries in the EU.
What I don't understand, is why you would not advocate for Nokia and Ericsson to buildout 5G in the EU. They aren't lacking for any IP or technology to do so.
Hence, why I think you have your head up Huawei's ass.
Given that Apple will likely sell some 190 million iPhones in FY2020 vs 230 million Huawei, I'm not seeing how low margins and low ASP is giving Huawei any comparable earnings to Apple, and hence, why it reinforces my opinion that Huawei is in fact a State Owned Enterprise, with massive subsidies from the government.
That in itself, plus various specific laws in China, create a risk that many countries, especially the U.S. and Australia today, are not willing to make by allowing Huawei in their 5G buildups. That so many EU countries, plus Canada and New Zealand, are still formulating their security approach to core 5G buildout at this late date is telling.
Worse for Huawei, there is the ongoing protests in Hong Kong that are eliciting support from most of the Five Eyes countries, along with the massive human rights violations of Muslims and other religious minorities in China. China's efforts against any country that supports independence for Taiwan, or the Hong Kong protests, or response to human rights violations, is creating a backlash against China, that will as well have an effect on Huawei's 5G. Hostage taking by the Chinese Government of Westerners in China is certainly not helping matters.
As for ASP, yeah consumers don't care, but investors do, excepting when that investor is the Chinese Government, who only want market domination.
Huawei's R&D at work;
https://www.androidcentral.com/huawei-upcoming-android-tablet-ipad-pro-hole-punch-display?utm_source=ac_tw&utm_medium=tw_card&utm_content=81851&utm_campaign=social
Literally a carbon copy of the iPad Pro, Keyboard, and Pencil...
I didn't bring Huawei into this - you did!
I simply replied.
I didn't bring politics into this - you did!
I don't advocate for Huawei, Nokia or Ericsson. There is no need, but of the three, only Huawei is a direct competitor of Apple and as a result pops up here. When that happens, people can go overboard and, as a Huawei and Apple user, I can put some contrast back into things.
Here is an example from your good self:
"Germany has not signed any contracts with Huawei for 5G, and those "60" 5G contracts are worldwide, including many emerging countries who are less concerned about security than most of the countries in the EU."
Perhaps you have more information than me so I will ask you to flesh that point out a bit.
Are you implying that there are very few carriers in Europe signing with Huawei for 5G? The reason I ask is that when they reached 50 contracts, more than half were with European carriers. Nearly 60% in fact. Are you suggesting they are less concerned about security?
I find it ironic that that snippet from you came directly after your accusation that I was misleading!
You say the difference between Huawei's unit sales and Apple's isn't that great but ignore the importance of the fact. Just a few short years ago there was a duopoly (Apple and Samsung). Huawei not only broke that duopoly, disbanking Apple for the first time in years, but would have probably overtaken Samsung this year if it wasn't for Trump.
No sir, I am not misleading anyone.
If we are discussing Apple's flat or decreasing shipments it's because someone out there has been topping Apple and not only now. That someone is Huawei. Shipping flagships that have upped the bar. In short, competition. Apple didn't reduce prices as a gift, you know. It had to!
Politics is certainly relevant to 5G buildout in the EU. I linked to an article indicating that German Security agencies were not happy about Merkel deciding to allow Huawei into core 5G infrastructure, and the indication is that the German Parliament might force a vote on that issue. Given that Germany's population is above 80 million, Germany is considered the keystone market for telecommunications, as well as a senior security partner in NATO.
As for Huawei competing with Apple in smartphone sales, I agreed that Huawei sold more, but also made considerably less revenue and profit from those sales, due to low margins and low ASP's compared to Apple. That Trump killed Huawei's aspiration is due as much to its close links to the CCP as it is to the trade war. You continue to be in denial about the CCP control of companies in China.
You probably fail to realize that China applied broad economic pressure to South Korea, and especially Samsung, beginning in 2016 when the U.S. deployed THAAD in South Korea. Samsung is rebounding now thanks to the tables being turned by Trump.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/thaad-south-koreas-best-defence-against-missile-attack/