Editorial: Apple Pay passes PayPal, tramples Google Pay & Samsung Pay

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 43
    mike1mike1 Posts: 2,808member
    Soli said:
    I use Apple Pay within the Starbucks app to refill my Starbucks card. For me that's pretty much a 1:1 ratio on payments, save for the occasional gift card I get, but only a single transaction to reload the card to approx. 5-10 purchases via the Starbucks app.That's not likely to change, but the Starbuck's is limited to Starbucks it's odd for anyone to assume that its growth rate would be greater than Apple Pay (Samsung Pay or Android Pay) in the long run.
    Ditto. I prefer to not charge everyday expenses like coffee, so I still hit my debit card using Apple Pay when reloading my Starbucks card.
    Now if Apple found it beneficial to offer a debit card, like Target does, that would be win-win.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 43
    mike1mike1 Posts: 2,808member
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I use Apple Pay wherever I can but I’ve never had an issue wit my credit card. 
    Just because Chase (in my case) has been very proactive and contacted me when they see suspicious activity, stopped activity and replaced cards immediately, doesn't mean that someday I won't have an issue that causes me grief and wastes my time.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 43
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,302member
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I use Apple Pay wherever I can but I’ve never had an issue wit my credit card. 
    In the 45+ years I've used credit cards I don't ever recall losing even a penny to fraud on one.

    Now has my card provider? Most likely. My AMEX has been replaced at least three times I can recall due to some online compromised transaction (not ever from a brick and mortar at least yet) but even if the provider never saw a loss do you think their rates charged to you would be any less? Extremely doubtful. They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you.

     These "secure payment" systems aren't primarily designed to benefit the consumer AFAICT. Anything in that regard is simply a byproduct.
    That's not accurate You can even look at buying and trading stocks to see that modern technology has benefited the consumer. First we had low cost trades that didn't require a physical broker to make, and now free trades are commonplace You can use any number of technologies as examples, but if using an *Pay system means that theft is reduced considerably, then companies will leverage that savings to help increase consumer interest to then increase company revenue and profits.
    So have the CC providers lowered any of your rates because you use Apple Pay? You're saving them money so they should.

    Companies will nearly always attempt to maximize profits, and only when nudged or prodded by competitors "pass some of the savings on to you". 
    Yes! The Apple Card directly rewards users with additional cash back for using Apple Pay.

    Then there will be benefits you’re not seeing like newer card offerings being more competitive with interest rates or offering additional services because loss from theft is decreasing, but chances are we’re not at a threshold to where that’s moving the needle enough to make a difference with all their transactions.
    Every card I carry rewards me. For example Amazon Visa rewards me for using their card to shop on Amazon. It's not because the transaction is more secure if I use it.  Apple's card is not unique in that regard. 
    bigtdsapplesnoranges
  • Reply 24 of 43
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,032member
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I use Apple Pay wherever I can but I’ve never had an issue wit my credit card. 
    In the 45+ years I've used credit cards I don't ever recall losing even a penny to fraud on one.

    Now has my card provider? Most likely. My AMEX has been replaced at least three times I can recall due to some online compromised transaction (not ever from a brick and mortar at least yet) but even if the provider never saw a loss do you think their rates charged to you would be any less? Extremely doubtful. They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you.

     These "secure payment" systems aren't primarily designed to benefit the consumer AFAICT. Anything in that regard is simply a byproduct.
    That's not accurate You can even look at buying and trading stocks to see that modern technology has benefited the consumer. First we had low cost trades that didn't require a physical broker to make, and now free trades are commonplace You can use any number of technologies as examples, but if using an *Pay system means that theft is reduced considerably, then companies will leverage that savings to help increase consumer interest to then increase company revenue and profits.
    So have the CC providers lowered any of your rates because you use Apple Pay? You're saving them money so they should.

    Companies will nearly always attempt to maximize profits, and only when nudged or prodded by competitors "pass some of the savings on to you". 
    Yes! The Apple Card directly rewards users with additional cash back for using Apple Pay.

    Then there will be benefits you’re not seeing like newer card offerings being more competitive with interest rates or offering additional services because loss from theft is decreasing, but chances are we’re not at a threshold to where that’s moving the needle enough to make a difference with all their transactions.
    Every card I carry rewards me. For example Amazon Visa rewards me for using their card to shop on Amazon. It's not because the transaction is more secure if I use it.  Apple's card is not unique in that regard. 
    And why do you think they do that? Your answer should be that they offer incentives to customers to use their cards which in turn benefits their bottom line, but that's oddly not what you believe since you stated, "They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you."

    As shown, savings are passed onto consumers in a free market. If technology creates a larger amount to savings there is a void that will get filled by companies exploiting that reduced cost. Apple Card is simply the first to take advantage of it, but others will follow.

    It's like when people complain about how much a MBP costs, yet even without accounting for inflation the cost was much higher in decades past for something much worse in every regard. I really can't believe that your defense is that technology doesn't benefit consumers when everything points to the contrary.
    StrangeDayschiawatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 43
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,302member
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I use Apple Pay wherever I can but I’ve never had an issue wit my credit card. 
    In the 45+ years I've used credit cards I don't ever recall losing even a penny to fraud on one.

    Now has my card provider? Most likely. My AMEX has been replaced at least three times I can recall due to some online compromised transaction (not ever from a brick and mortar at least yet) but even if the provider never saw a loss do you think their rates charged to you would be any less? Extremely doubtful. They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you.

     These "secure payment" systems aren't primarily designed to benefit the consumer AFAICT. Anything in that regard is simply a byproduct.
    That's not accurate You can even look at buying and trading stocks to see that modern technology has benefited the consumer. First we had low cost trades that didn't require a physical broker to make, and now free trades are commonplace You can use any number of technologies as examples, but if using an *Pay system means that theft is reduced considerably, then companies will leverage that savings to help increase consumer interest to then increase company revenue and profits.
    So have the CC providers lowered any of your rates because you use Apple Pay? You're saving them money so they should.

    Companies will nearly always attempt to maximize profits, and only when nudged or prodded by competitors "pass some of the savings on to you". 
    Yes! The Apple Card directly rewards users with additional cash back for using Apple Pay.

    Then there will be benefits you’re not seeing like newer card offerings being more competitive with interest rates or offering additional services because loss from theft is decreasing, but chances are we’re not at a threshold to where that’s moving the needle enough to make a difference with all their transactions.
    Every card I carry rewards me. For example Amazon Visa rewards me for using their card to shop on Amazon. It's not because the transaction is more secure if I use it.  Apple's card is not unique in that regard. 
    And why do you think they do that? Your answer should be that they offer incentives to customers to use their cards which in turn benefits their bottom line, but that's oddly not what you believe since you stated, "They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you."

    As shown, savings are passed onto consumers in a free market. If technology creates a larger amount to savings there is a void that will get filled by companies exploiting that reduced cost. Apple Card is simply the first to take advantage of it, but others will follow.

    It's like when people complain about how much a MBP costs, yet even without accounting for inflation the cost was much higher in decades past for something much worse in every regard. I really can't believe that your defense is that technology doesn't benefit consumers when everything points to the contrary.
    LOL... We're not discussing technology Soli, much as you might prefer to.
  • Reply 26 of 43
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,032member
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I use Apple Pay wherever I can but I’ve never had an issue wit my credit card. 
    In the 45+ years I've used credit cards I don't ever recall losing even a penny to fraud on one.

    Now has my card provider? Most likely. My AMEX has been replaced at least three times I can recall due to some online compromised transaction (not ever from a brick and mortar at least yet) but even if the provider never saw a loss do you think their rates charged to you would be any less? Extremely doubtful. They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you.

     These "secure payment" systems aren't primarily designed to benefit the consumer AFAICT. Anything in that regard is simply a byproduct.
    That's not accurate You can even look at buying and trading stocks to see that modern technology has benefited the consumer. First we had low cost trades that didn't require a physical broker to make, and now free trades are commonplace You can use any number of technologies as examples, but if using an *Pay system means that theft is reduced considerably, then companies will leverage that savings to help increase consumer interest to then increase company revenue and profits.
    So have the CC providers lowered any of your rates because you use Apple Pay? You're saving them money so they should.

    Companies will nearly always attempt to maximize profits, and only when nudged or prodded by competitors "pass some of the savings on to you". 
    Yes! The Apple Card directly rewards users with additional cash back for using Apple Pay.

    Then there will be benefits you’re not seeing like newer card offerings being more competitive with interest rates or offering additional services because loss from theft is decreasing, but chances are we’re not at a threshold to where that’s moving the needle enough to make a difference with all their transactions.
    Every card I carry rewards me. For example Amazon Visa rewards me for using their card to shop on Amazon. It's not because the transaction is more secure if I use it.  Apple's card is not unique in that regard. 
    And why do you think they do that? Your answer should be that they offer incentives to customers to use their cards which in turn benefits their bottom line, but that's oddly not what you believe since you stated, "They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you."

    As shown, savings are passed onto consumers in a free market. If technology creates a larger amount to savings there is a void that will get filled by companies exploiting that reduced cost. Apple Card is simply the first to take advantage of it, but others will follow.

    It's like when people complain about how much a MBP costs, yet even without accounting for inflation the cost was much higher in decades past for something much worse in every regard. I really can't believe that your defense is that technology doesn't benefit consumers when everything points to the contrary.
    LOL... We're not discussing technology Soli, much as you might prefer to.
    Of course we're talking about technology. Not only is modern technology and how we use technology in society making *Pay systems possible, it's backed by technologies that allow instant banking possible, which itself is built on markets, institutions, gov't backed currencies, and the even the notion of currency itself is a technology.

    Even within banks I use costs have shifted drastically From being limited to the number of times per month and charged to see a teller over an ATM to online brokerage firms having lower and now often free stock trades. These saving are definitely being passed onto me because it would leave too much money on the table to not compete when technology gives them a new revenue path.
    edited October 2019 StrangeDaysapplesnorangeschiawatto_cobraBart Y
  • Reply 27 of 43
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,811member
    It's a coincidence that this article would appear today. I just, finally, got a card that would work with ApplePay. My Wallet now has something in it. Now I just have to figure out how to use the bloody thing.
    watto_cobraAnilu_777
  • Reply 28 of 43
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,761member
    bigtds said:
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I've never lost a dime and it's no less convenient.
    It physically is less convenient -- if I'm jogging in workout shorts and my Watch, carrying my wallet certainly is more stuff. My phone even has my state's digital driver's license, so I don't even need a wallet to drive somewhere. Carrying the wallet for cards is certainly less convenient. 

    And you cannot argue that cash is more protected than electronic, nor can you say that cards are more secure than tokens.
    edited October 2019 chiawatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 43
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,761member

    gatorguy said:
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I use Apple Pay wherever I can but I’ve never had an issue wit my credit card. 
    In the 45+ years I've used credit cards I don't ever recall losing even a penny to fraud on one.

    Now has my card provider? Most likely. My AMEX has been replaced at least three times I can recall due to some online compromised transaction (not ever from a brick and mortar at least yet) but even if the provider never saw a loss do you think their rates charged to you would be any less? Extremely doubtful. They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you.

     These "secure payment" systems aren't primarily designed to benefit the consumer AFAICT. Anything in that regard is simply a byproduct.
    Plenty of people, myself included, have had to go thru the hassle of charging cards due to national retailer data breaches.
    chiawatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 43
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,761member

    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I use Apple Pay wherever I can but I’ve never had an issue wit my credit card. 
    In the 45+ years I've used credit cards I don't ever recall losing even a penny to fraud on one.

    Now has my card provider? Most likely. My AMEX has been replaced at least three times I can recall due to some online compromised transaction (not ever from a brick and mortar at least yet) but even if the provider never saw a loss do you think their rates charged to you would be any less? Extremely doubtful. They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you.

     These "secure payment" systems aren't primarily designed to benefit the consumer AFAICT. Anything in that regard is simply a byproduct.
    That's not accurate You can even look at buying and trading stocks to see that modern technology has benefited the consumer. First we had low cost trades that didn't require a physical broker to make, and now free trades are commonplace You can use any number of technologies as examples, but if using an *Pay system means that theft is reduced considerably, then companies will leverage that savings to help increase consumer interest to then increase company revenue and profits.
    So have the CC providers lowered any of your rates because you use Apple Pay? You're saving them money so they should. All the "secure payment' systems including Apple's are based on a Mastercard/Visa effort and process design intended to deliver savings to the member banks, not the consumer. 

    Companies will nearly always attempt to maximize profits, and only when nudged or prodded by competitors "pass some of the savings on to you". 
    Where do you think the cash back rewards come from?
    chiawatto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 43
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,761member
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I use Apple Pay wherever I can but I’ve never had an issue wit my credit card. 
    In the 45+ years I've used credit cards I don't ever recall losing even a penny to fraud on one.

    Now has my card provider? Most likely. My AMEX has been replaced at least three times I can recall due to some online compromised transaction (not ever from a brick and mortar at least yet) but even if the provider never saw a loss do you think their rates charged to you would be any less? Extremely doubtful. They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you.

     These "secure payment" systems aren't primarily designed to benefit the consumer AFAICT. Anything in that regard is simply a byproduct.
    That's not accurate You can even look at buying and trading stocks to see that modern technology has benefited the consumer. First we had low cost trades that didn't require a physical broker to make, and now free trades are commonplace You can use any number of technologies as examples, but if using an *Pay system means that theft is reduced considerably, then companies will leverage that savings to help increase consumer interest to then increase company revenue and profits.
    So have the CC providers lowered any of your rates because you use Apple Pay? You're saving them money so they should.

    Companies will nearly always attempt to maximize profits, and only when nudged or prodded by competitors "pass some of the savings on to you". 
    Yes! The Apple Card directly rewards users with additional cash back for using Apple Pay.

    Then there will be benefits you’re not seeing like newer card offerings being more competitive with interest rates or offering additional services because loss from theft is decreasing, but chances are we’re not at a threshold to where that’s moving the needle enough to make a difference with all their transactions.
    Every card I carry rewards me. For example Amazon Visa rewards me for using their card to shop on Amazon. It's not because the transaction is more secure if I use it.  Apple's card is not unique in that regard. 
    And why do you think they do that? Your answer should be that they offer incentives to customers to use their cards which in turn benefits their bottom line, but that's oddly not what you believe since you stated, "They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you."

    As shown, savings are passed onto consumers in a free market. If technology creates a larger amount to savings there is a void that will get filled by companies exploiting that reduced cost. Apple Card is simply the first to take advantage of it, but others will follow.

    It's like when people complain about how much a MBP costs, yet even without accounting for inflation the cost was much higher in decades past for something much worse in every regard. I really can't believe that your defense is that technology doesn't benefit consumers when everything points to the contrary.
    LOL... We're not discussing technology Soli, much as you might prefer to.
    Uh, guy? As someone who developed software for Capital One for years, I can assure you -- we are talking technology. I don't know if you're really working anymore, but if you're at an enterprise such as banking (or retail, or energy, or even government, basically anything) and you don't think IT is a core aspect of your business, you won't be there long. We absolutely consider technology part of our ability to recruit customers, deliver value, and make processes less expensive. That is the basis of automation and systems engineering.
    edited October 2019 applesnorangeschiawatto_cobraBart Y
  • Reply 32 of 43
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,302member

    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I use Apple Pay wherever I can but I’ve never had an issue wit my credit card. 
    In the 45+ years I've used credit cards I don't ever recall losing even a penny to fraud on one.

    Now has my card provider? Most likely. My AMEX has been replaced at least three times I can recall due to some online compromised transaction (not ever from a brick and mortar at least yet) but even if the provider never saw a loss do you think their rates charged to you would be any less? Extremely doubtful. They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you.

     These "secure payment" systems aren't primarily designed to benefit the consumer AFAICT. Anything in that regard is simply a byproduct.
    That's not accurate You can even look at buying and trading stocks to see that modern technology has benefited the consumer. First we had low cost trades that didn't require a physical broker to make, and now free trades are commonplace You can use any number of technologies as examples, but if using an *Pay system means that theft is reduced considerably, then companies will leverage that savings to help increase consumer interest to then increase company revenue and profits.
    So have the CC providers lowered any of your rates because you use Apple Pay? You're saving them money so they should. All the "secure payment' systems including Apple's are based on a Mastercard/Visa effort and process design intended to deliver savings to the member banks, not the consumer. 

    Companies will nearly always attempt to maximize profits, and only when nudged or prodded by competitors "pass some of the savings on to you". 
    Where do you think the cash back rewards come from?
    The savings from the added security? Nope. it comes from a tiny share of the higher relative interest rates. When was the last time one of your standard( not introductory) rates was under 9% on a credit card? Years ago it was not unusual, and I had more than one with 8% or less.  Nowadays 12% and up is more the standard, and 18-23% is really common. @Soli ; that's despite all these "savings" that technology has given us. 
  • Reply 33 of 43
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,278member
    davgreg said:
    I would love for Apple to push payments to utilities. Many use a thing called Bill Matrix and charge an outrageous fee for you to pay by credit or debit card, charging $2-3 a transaction.
    It still won’t happen because they are still going to be charge a fee from whatever card you’re using with NFC payments/ApplePay. The charges are there to cover the cost of the charge they are getting. 
  • Reply 34 of 43
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,278member

    Soli said:
    davgreg said:
    I would love for Apple to push payments to utilities. Many use a thing called Bill Matrix and charge an outrageous fee for you to pay by credit or debit card, charging $2-3 a transaction.
    That would be nice. I don’t care for using my routing and account number to save on the extra service charge.
    Still won’t matter as ApplePay still has a charge as well. 
  • Reply 35 of 43
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,761member
    gatorguy said:

    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I use Apple Pay wherever I can but I’ve never had an issue wit my credit card. 
    In the 45+ years I've used credit cards I don't ever recall losing even a penny to fraud on one.

    Now has my card provider? Most likely. My AMEX has been replaced at least three times I can recall due to some online compromised transaction (not ever from a brick and mortar at least yet) but even if the provider never saw a loss do you think their rates charged to you would be any less? Extremely doubtful. They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you.

     These "secure payment" systems aren't primarily designed to benefit the consumer AFAICT. Anything in that regard is simply a byproduct.
    That's not accurate You can even look at buying and trading stocks to see that modern technology has benefited the consumer. First we had low cost trades that didn't require a physical broker to make, and now free trades are commonplace You can use any number of technologies as examples, but if using an *Pay system means that theft is reduced considerably, then companies will leverage that savings to help increase consumer interest to then increase company revenue and profits.
    So have the CC providers lowered any of your rates because you use Apple Pay? You're saving them money so they should. All the "secure payment' systems including Apple's are based on a Mastercard/Visa effort and process design intended to deliver savings to the member banks, not the consumer. 

    Companies will nearly always attempt to maximize profits, and only when nudged or prodded by competitors "pass some of the savings on to you". 
    Where do you think the cash back rewards come from?
    The savings from the added security? Nope. it comes from a tiny share of the higher relative interest rates. When was the last time one of your standard( not introductory) rates was under 9% on a credit card? Years ago it was not unusual, and I had more than one with 8% or less.  Nowadays 12% and up is more the standard, and 18-23% is really common. @Soli ; that's despite all these "savings" that technology has given us. 
    Unregulated consumer lending is a different discussion. But I can absolutely assure you that reduced fraud costs are part of what we get out of this in the banking business. If you save X in annual fraud investigations and credits, you can pay Y in added incentives. Managing the particulars of these programs was above my pay grade, of course, but you're a fool if you think it isn't discussed and part of the comprehensive product design. 

    Technology saves money. Across the board.
    applesnorangeswatto_cobraAnilu_777
  • Reply 36 of 43
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,278member

    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I use Apple Pay wherever I can but I’ve never had an issue wit my credit card. 
    In the 45+ years I've used credit cards I don't ever recall losing even a penny to fraud on one.

    Now has my card provider? Most likely. My AMEX has been replaced at least three times I can recall due to some online compromised transaction (not ever from a brick and mortar at least yet) but even if the provider never saw a loss do you think their rates charged to you would be any less? Extremely doubtful. They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you.

     These "secure payment" systems aren't primarily designed to benefit the consumer AFAICT. Anything in that regard is simply a byproduct.
    That's not accurate You can even look at buying and trading stocks to see that modern technology has benefited the consumer. First we had low cost trades that didn't require a physical broker to make, and now free trades are commonplace You can use any number of technologies as examples, but if using an *Pay system means that theft is reduced considerably, then companies will leverage that savings to help increase consumer interest to then increase company revenue and profits.
    So have the CC providers lowered any of your rates because you use Apple Pay? You're saving them money so they should.

    Companies will nearly always attempt to maximize profits, and only when nudged or prodded by competitors "pass some of the savings on to you". 
    Yes! The Apple Card directly rewards users with additional cash back for using Apple Pay.

    Then there will be benefits you’re not seeing like newer card offerings being more competitive with interest rates or offering additional services because loss from theft is decreasing, but chances are we’re not at a threshold to where that’s moving the needle enough to make a difference with all their transactions.
    But I’ve already had those benefits before I received my Apple card. I got cash back and other rewards. 
  • Reply 37 of 43
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,302member
    gatorguy said:

    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I use Apple Pay wherever I can but I’ve never had an issue wit my credit card. 
    In the 45+ years I've used credit cards I don't ever recall losing even a penny to fraud on one.

    Now has my card provider? Most likely. My AMEX has been replaced at least three times I can recall due to some online compromised transaction (not ever from a brick and mortar at least yet) but even if the provider never saw a loss do you think their rates charged to you would be any less? Extremely doubtful. They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you.

     These "secure payment" systems aren't primarily designed to benefit the consumer AFAICT. Anything in that regard is simply a byproduct.
    That's not accurate You can even look at buying and trading stocks to see that modern technology has benefited the consumer. First we had low cost trades that didn't require a physical broker to make, and now free trades are commonplace You can use any number of technologies as examples, but if using an *Pay system means that theft is reduced considerably, then companies will leverage that savings to help increase consumer interest to then increase company revenue and profits.
    So have the CC providers lowered any of your rates because you use Apple Pay? You're saving them money so they should. All the "secure payment' systems including Apple's are based on a Mastercard/Visa effort and process design intended to deliver savings to the member banks, not the consumer. 

    Companies will nearly always attempt to maximize profits, and only when nudged or prodded by competitors "pass some of the savings on to you". 
    Where do you think the cash back rewards come from?
    The savings from the added security? Nope. it comes from a tiny share of the higher relative interest rates. When was the last time one of your standard( not introductory) rates was under 9% on a credit card? Years ago it was not unusual, and I had more than one with 8% or less.  Nowadays 12% and up is more the standard, and 18-23% is really common. @Soli ; that's despite all these "savings" that technology has given us. 
    Unregulated consumer lending is a different discussion. But I can absolutely assure you that reduced fraud costs are part of what we get out of this in the banking business. If you save X in annual fraud investigations and credits, you can pay Y in added incentives. Managing the particulars of these programs was above my pay grade, of course, but you're a fool if you think it isn't discussed and part of the comprehensive product design. 

    Technology saves money. Across the board.
    Saves the provider money? I 100% agree.
    Saves YOU money? Where?

    The 40 year trend has been interest rates have INCREASED for consumers, not decreased, while savings to the financial companies from cutting people and plant and relying more on "technology" has increased.

    Someone is getting richer due to "secure payments" and it is not you. 
    edited October 2019 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 38 of 43
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,032member

    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    Soli said:
    gatorguy said:
    bigtds said:
    I'll stick with cash and credit cards.
    ApplePay is more secure than a credit card and a hell of a lot more convenient.
    I use Apple Pay wherever I can but I’ve never had an issue wit my credit card. 
    In the 45+ years I've used credit cards I don't ever recall losing even a penny to fraud on one.

    Now has my card provider? Most likely. My AMEX has been replaced at least three times I can recall due to some online compromised transaction (not ever from a brick and mortar at least yet) but even if the provider never saw a loss do you think their rates charged to you would be any less? Extremely doubtful. They might get a bit richer, maybe or maybe not even give bigger executive bonuses, but the savings won't be passed on to you.

     These "secure payment" systems aren't primarily designed to benefit the consumer AFAICT. Anything in that regard is simply a byproduct.
    That's not accurate You can even look at buying and trading stocks to see that modern technology has benefited the consumer. First we had low cost trades that didn't require a physical broker to make, and now free trades are commonplace You can use any number of technologies as examples, but if using an *Pay system means that theft is reduced considerably, then companies will leverage that savings to help increase consumer interest to then increase company revenue and profits.
    So have the CC providers lowered any of your rates because you use Apple Pay? You're saving them money so they should.

    Companies will nearly always attempt to maximize profits, and only when nudged or prodded by competitors "pass some of the savings on to you". 
    Yes! The Apple Card directly rewards users with additional cash back for using Apple Pay.

    Then there will be benefits you’re not seeing like newer card offerings being more competitive with interest rates or offering additional services because loss from theft is decreasing, but chances are we’re not at a threshold to where that’s moving the needle enough to make a difference with all their transactions.
    But I’ve already had those benefits before I received my Apple card. I got cash back and other rewards. 
    No, you didn't get 3% from Apple Card for using Apple Pay before you received your Apple Card. You had rewards on other cards, but no one said that Apple invented cash back rewards.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 43
    I use Apple Cash to pay the bill on Apple Card. The transactions clear instantly. I’ve sent a feature request to add multiple bank accounts to Apple Cash (like Apple Card), direct deposit to Apple Cash, and the ability to have a check sent to the one biller I have that doesn’t accept ACH (Automated Clearing House) transactions. I would like Apple Cash to replace my checking account. The main problem with my current checking account is the app isn’t nearly as good as the Wallet App.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 43
    bigtdsbigtds Posts: 167member
    It physically is less convenient -- if I'm jogging in workout shorts and my Watch, carrying my wallet certainly is more stuff. My phone even has my state's digital driver's license, so I don't even need a wallet to drive somewhere. Carrying the wallet for cards is certainly less convenient. 

    And you cannot argue that cash is more protected than electronic, nor can you say that cards are more secure than tokens.
    That may be true if you’re jogging in a banana hammock. My shorts have zippered pockets capable of holding cash, credit cards, Id and my phone. If you can fit a phone, you can fit a card. So yes, it’s no less convenient for me.
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