So, likely around a million cards/accounts. Not bad...
Agreed. I assumed the credit limit for Apple Card was an average of $7500. That comes to about 1.3 Million accounts.
Some estimates say Apple Pay has about 253M users worldwide with international Apple Pay users actually accounting for more at 215 million versus 38 million in US.
GS, I'm guessing, will only handle US customers so they will top out at 38 million Apple Card accounts. Internationally is where Apple Card can expand substantially.
7500 is too high for an average. In our experience the credit limits granted were very conservative. I got 5000 after a lifetime of good credit.
Difficult to understand loan balances when the card doesn't really have a pay date. I end up using it like a combination credit and debit card, paying off chunks of purchases a few times a month. Not sure if my balance would show in this case.
Is $10B of credit lines a lot or a normal amount?
I use it more as a conventional credit card: I wait till the 1st of the month to print my statement, then reconcile the account on Quicken from that statement (manually unfortunately since there is no download) then schedule a payment for the balance a few days prior to the end of the month when it is due.
My main complaints about that: 1) There is no download to Quicken so I have to do the reconciliation by hand 2) I have no control over the period end date so AppleCard is an outlier that I need to handle separately (all my other cards end on the 23rd or 24th of the month) 3) I cannot pay by check or even let my bank send a payment - I am forced to let Goldman store my bank account info on their site as that's the only way to pay.
I'm thinking the Apple Card was designed for young people naive to credit cards. For myself, I find my other, more traditional cards much easier to deal with. AppleCard is mostly a PIA -- so I restrict it to Apple purchases only.
I think Goldman & Apple need to up their game for this card if they want it to become mainstream. While it is simple, it is also restrictive.
LOL no. My friends and I who use the card are middle aged, and one owns his own jet. I do not and will never perform the sort of account reconciliation you perform. Instead I just pay my monthly balance before the due date.
Also, are you certain GS stores your banking info? I don’t know who initiates the ACH, GS or Apple.
Apple doesn't handle the banking end of it -- that's GS. So, there's no reason to think that Apple executes the ACH transaction.
Difficult to understand loan balances when the card doesn't really have a pay date. I end up using it like a combination credit and debit card, paying off chunks of purchases a few times a month. Not sure if my balance would show in this case.
Is $10B of credit lines a lot or a normal amount?
I use it more as a conventional credit card: I wait till the 1st of the month to print my statement, then reconcile the account on Quicken from that statement (manually unfortunately since there is no download) then schedule a payment for the balance a few days prior to the end of the month when it is due.
My main complaints about that: 1) There is no download to Quicken so I have to do the reconciliation by hand 2) I have no control over the period end date so AppleCard is an outlier that I need to handle separately (all my other cards end on the 23rd or 24th of the month) 3) I cannot pay by check or even let my bank send a payment - I am forced to let Goldman store my bank account info on their site as that's the only way to pay.
I'm thinking the Apple Card was designed for young people naive to credit cards. For myself, I find my other, more traditional cards much easier to deal with. AppleCard is mostly a PIA -- so I restrict it to Apple purchases only.
I think Goldman & Apple need to up their game for this card if they want it to become mainstream. While it is simple, it is also restrictive.
LOL no. My friends and I who use the card are middle aged, and one owns his own jet. I do not and will never perform the sort of account reconciliation you perform. Instead I just pay my monthly balance before the due date.
Also, are you certain GS stores your banking info? I don’t know who initiates the ACH, GS or Apple.
While we don't know anything for sure at this point I agree with GeorgeBMac. I would bet anything that it's GS handing all the back-end banking aspects of this card, not Apple.
Difficult to understand loan balances when the card doesn't really have a pay date.
I don't understand what you mean by 'pay date'. Are you referring to the due date of the monthly payment? Apple as specified that as the last day of the month. No floating Due By dates. I have two credit cards that I've opted out of paper billing. But their app makes you drill a few levels to find the amount due and due date.
I generally use my debit card. When I use my other credit cards, I don't carry a balance. And that's infrequent enough it's always a bit of a dance to find the needed info in the apps. The Apple Card provides that up front and center.
GeorgeBMac said: I'm thinking the Apple Card was designed for young people naive to credit cards.
I'd say not so much designed for, but definitely having them in mind. While I have a couple of card (three now with the Apple Card) up until now, my debit card was my main card. Same as cash, minimal 'accounting' skill needed.
Now that I have the Apple Card, it's my primary Apple Pay card and my primary card for other vendors. My my card info can now be left with them 'for faster checkout' (LOL) with no apprehension. I don't carry it or my other ccs, just my debit card. The others are in my Wallet.
I have it. I use it. I like it. Others will do as is their wont. It doesn't affect me.
Difficult to understand loan balances when the card doesn't really have a pay date.
I don't understand what you mean by 'pay date'. Are you referring to the due date of the monthly payment? Apple as specified that as the last day of the month. No floating Due By dates. I have two credit cards that I've opted out of paper billing. But their app makes you drill a few levels to find the amount due and due date.
I generally use my debit card. When I use my other credit cards, I don't carry a balance. And that's infrequent enough it's always a bit of a dance to find the needed info in the apps. The Apple Card provides that up front and center.
GeorgeBMac said: I'm thinking the Apple Card was designed for young people naive to credit cards.
I'd say not so much designed for, but definitely having them [young people] in mind. While I have a couple of card (three now with the Apple Card) up until now, my debit card was my main card. Same as cash, minimal 'accounting' skill needed.
Now that I have the Apple Card, it's my primary Apple Pay card and my primary card for other vendors. My my card info can now be left with them 'for faster checkout' (LOL) with no apprehension. I don't carry it or my other ccs, just my debit card. The others are in my Wallet.
I have it. I use it. I like it. Others will do as is their wont. It doesn't affect me.
I'm just pulling this out of my butt, so basically, I'm doing the same things that analysts do when they speculate about Apple, but if we figure out an average of about a $5,000 limit per user, then that would come out to about a couple of million users so far (10 bill / 5000). Not bad for a card that's brand new.
I'd halve the credit limit. While my credit standing is good & my credit card usage was less than 10% I received a $2,500 limit.
My limit was about 60-70% of my highest card; they approved me for $20k. I’m a little surprised at my spending behavior with it; I use it much more than I would have expected. Time to dump some of the mileage cards.
I'm just pulling this out of my butt, so basically, I'm doing the same things that analysts do when they speculate about Apple, but if we figure out an average of about a $5,000 limit per user, then that would come out to about a couple of million users so far (10 bill / 5000). Not bad for a card that's brand new.
I'd halve the credit limit. While my credit standing is good & my credit card usage was less than 10% I received a $2,500 limit.
My limit was about 60-70% of my highest card; they approved me for $20k. I’m a little surprised at my spending behavior with it; I use it much more than I would have expected. Time to dump some of the mileage cards.
1) Your limit or your usage? Over 10% and your credit rating will be hit. At 60–70% it would be hit hard.
2) I wouldn't consider dumping any CCs unless there is an annual fee attached. When you drop your total revolving credit amount your credit can drop, but it can also drop if those lower your oldest credit line and average credit line age, and that will also increase the percentage of used credit which can lower your credit rating.
I'm just pulling this out of my butt, so basically, I'm doing the same things that analysts do when they speculate about Apple, but if we figure out an average of about a $5,000 limit per user, then that would come out to about a couple of million users so far (10 bill / 5000). Not bad for a card that's brand new.
The average credit limit is closer to $10,000 per account.
I'm just pulling this out of my butt, so basically, I'm doing the same things that analysts do when they speculate about Apple, but if we figure out an average of about a $5,000 limit per user, then that would come out to about a couple of million users so far (10 bill / 5000). Not bad for a card that's brand new.
The average credit limit is closer to $10,000 per account.
Difficult to understand loan balances when the card doesn't really have a pay date. I end up using it like a combination credit and debit card, paying off chunks of purchases a few times a month. Not sure if my balance would show in this case.
Is $10B of credit lines a lot or a normal amount?
I use it more as a conventional credit card: I wait till the 1st of the month to print my statement, then reconcile the account on Quicken from that statement (manually unfortunately since there is no download) then schedule a payment for the balance a few days prior to the end of the month when it is due.
My main complaints about that: 1) There is no download to Quicken so I have to do the reconciliation by hand 2) I have no control over the period end date so AppleCard is an outlier that I need to handle separately (all my other cards end on the 23rd or 24th of the month) 3) I cannot pay by check or even let my bank send a payment - I am forced to let Goldman store my bank account info on their site as that's the only way to pay.
I'm thinking the Apple Card was designed for young people naive to credit cards. For myself, I find my other, more traditional cards much easier to deal with. AppleCard is mostly a PIA -- so I restrict it to Apple purchases only.
I think Goldman & Apple need to up their game for this card if they want it to become mainstream. While it is simple, it is also restrictive.
LOL no. My friends and I who use the card are middle aged, and one owns his own jet. I do not and will never perform the sort of account reconciliation you perform. Instead I just pay my monthly balance before the due date.
Also, are you certain GS stores your banking info? I don’t know who initiates the ACH, GS or Apple.
Apple doesn't handle the banking end of it -- that's GS. So, there's no reason to think that Apple executes the ACH transaction.
Are you sure. When I pay off a balance, I initiate the transfer from within Apple Pay using the stored banking information on my phone that I entered for Apple Cash. I just checked my bank statement and it says: External Withdrawal - APPLECARD GSBANK - PAYMENT. That leads me to believe GS did the withdrawal but the only way they would be able to do it is if Apple transferred my banking information for my Apple Cash when I set up the Apple Card. I didn't set up a separate ACH with GS. Also, when I pay off a balance (or any amount) it immediately reduces my Apple Card balance on the phone but it lists the payment on my bank the next day.
It would be nice to know from Apple how this process works and who and how many companies have access to my bank account information.
I'm just pulling this out of my butt, so basically, I'm doing the same things that analysts do when they speculate about Apple, but if we figure out an average of about a $5,000 limit per user, then that would come out to about a couple of million users so far (10 bill / 5000). Not bad for a card that's brand new.
I'd halve the credit limit. While my credit standing is good & my credit card usage was less than 10% I received a $2,500 limit.
It's certainly possible that it's around $2,500. That would make about 4 million users.
A few comments below yours, there's somebody else who's guessing $7,500. That's probably a bit on the high side.
My $5,000 butt pull figure is right in the middle of your estimate and the $7,500 estimate, but the actual figure is probably closer to $2,500 than it is to $7,500 imo.
The average limit may even be lower than $2,500 as part of their intention is to extend credit to people who have difficulty obtaining credit. I did my math based on a $2,000 limit but $2,500 is also good guess IMO. In any event, it's not a huge number of accounts opened so far and if the $350/account figure is any good, it's nearly $2b spent just on customer acquisition.
Difficult to understand loan balances when the card doesn't really have a pay date. I end up using it like a combination credit and debit card, paying off chunks of purchases a few times a month. Not sure if my balance would show in this case.
Is $10B of credit lines a lot or a normal amount?
I use it more as a conventional credit card: I wait till the 1st of the month to print my statement, then reconcile the account on Quicken from that statement (manually unfortunately since there is no download) then schedule a payment for the balance a few days prior to the end of the month when it is due.
My main complaints about that: 1) There is no download to Quicken so I have to do the reconciliation by hand 2) I have no control over the period end date so AppleCard is an outlier that I need to handle separately (all my other cards end on the 23rd or 24th of the month) 3) I cannot pay by check or even let my bank send a payment - I am forced to let Goldman store my bank account info on their site as that's the only way to pay.
I'm thinking the Apple Card was designed for young people naive to credit cards. For myself, I find my other, more traditional cards much easier to deal with. AppleCard is mostly a PIA -- so I restrict it to Apple purchases only.
I think Goldman & Apple need to up their game for this card if they want it to become mainstream. While it is simple, it is also restrictive.
LOL no. My friends and I who use the card are middle aged, and one owns his own jet. I do not and will never perform the sort of account reconciliation you perform. Instead I just pay my monthly balance before the due date.
Also, are you certain GS stores your banking info? I don’t know who initiates the ACH, GS or Apple.
Apple doesn't handle the banking end of it -- that's GS. So, there's no reason to think that Apple executes the ACH transaction.
Are you sure. When I pay off a balance, I initiate the transfer from within Apple Pay using the stored banking information on my phone that I entered for Apple Cash. I just checked my bank statement and it says: External Withdrawal - APPLECARD GSBANK - PAYMENT. That leads me to believe GS did the withdrawal but the only way they would be able to do it is if Apple transferred my banking information for my Apple Cash when I set up the Apple Card. I didn't set up a separate ACH with GS. Also, when I pay off a balance (or any amount) it immediately reduces my Apple Card balance on the phone but it lists the payment on my bank the next day.
It would be nice to know from Apple how this process works and who and how many companies have access to my bank account information.
That was what I was expecting, but not what I saw in real life. I expected to be able to make payments from my Apple Cash balance. But, once I had the card with a balance I found that the ONLY way to make a payment was to enter my banking info into the AppleCARD as the first step. It was sort of a gateway to making a payment of any sort. Without entering my banking info into the AppleCard app there was simply no way to make a payment (even from AppleCash -- and that was verified by Apple / GS when I called*.
(But yeh, once they had my banking info on file for an ACH transaction, then I was able to make the payment from AppleCash -- but that kind of defeated the purpose because GS already had my banking info.)
* I think I insulted the customer services rep: I told him I didn't like having my banking info stored on 3rd party servers. When he protested that it wasn't on third party server I told him "You ARE a 3rd party!" He got kind of offended by that. But sorry, I want my banking info to stay in my bank as much as possible.
Comments
7500 is too high for an average. In our experience the credit limits granted were very conservative. I got 5000 after a lifetime of good credit.
I generally use my debit card. When I use my other credit cards, I don't carry a balance. And that's infrequent enough it's always a bit of a dance to find the needed info in the apps. The Apple Card provides that up front and center.
Now that I have the Apple Card, it's my primary Apple Pay card and my primary card for other vendors. My my card info can now be left with them 'for faster checkout' (LOL) with no apprehension. I don't carry it or my other ccs, just my debit card. The others are in my Wallet.
I have it. I use it. I like it. Others will do as is their wont. It doesn't affect me.
2) I wouldn't consider dumping any CCs unless there is an annual fee attached. When you drop your total revolving credit amount your credit can drop, but it can also drop if those lower your oldest credit line and average credit line age, and that will also increase the percentage of used credit which can lower your credit rating.
It would be nice to know from Apple how this process works and who and how many companies have access to my bank account information.
I expected to be able to make payments from my Apple Cash balance. But, once I had the card with a balance I found that the ONLY way to make a payment was to enter my banking info into the AppleCARD as the first step. It was sort of a gateway to making a payment of any sort. Without entering my banking info into the AppleCard app there was simply no way to make a payment (even from AppleCash -- and that was verified by Apple / GS when I called*.
(But yeh, once they had my banking info on file for an ACH transaction, then I was able to make the payment from AppleCash -- but that kind of defeated the purpose because GS already had my banking info.)
* I think I insulted the customer services rep: I told him I didn't like having my banking info stored on 3rd party servers. When he protested that it wasn't on third party server I told him "You ARE a 3rd party!" He got kind of offended by that. But sorry, I want my banking info to stay in my bank as much as possible.