Subscription model, so, I don’t care. I’m done with Adobe.
Nobody cares.
Well, two people care.
A lot more than two people care, I'm done with Adobe as well. I used to buy their products years ago, but no more. Subscription software is almost always bullshit, just a way for companies to extract more $ from their customer base. Lest anyone think they're getting a "deal" with subscription software, you need to remember that companies are moving to this model because it better serves their bottom line, not the other way around. This should be obvious.
But as long as people continue to buy into the BS, and treat Adobe's cloud storage as some sort of magical thing that they couldn't just as easily implement in a way that people could use their own arbitrary servers, then Adobe will keep sucking all of you suckers' money out even faster than before. And forcing you to update on their timetable instead of your own. It's really sad that people have fallen for this, but there are so many things people have stupidly fallen into in recent years, like facebook, so it's not surprising.
The vast majority of their users are like me. We use the software for our jobs, and don’t flinch at paying what ends up cheaper than Keeping up to date with the old Creative Suite Master Collection back in the day. I pay for my CC membership in about half an hour of billable work each month. If you don’t use it for work, there are plenty of cheap alternatives for nearly all their software across the board for you out there.
But thanks for implying that everyone who uses CC professionally is stupid! /eyerolllllllll
The actual intent was to say that everyone who uses facebook is stupid, but poorly written in haste, and it's a different topic anyway. Dropped.
But I'll say a little more on the other part. The price of subscription software might not matter to you, and it might possibly be cheaper for you, personally (but only if you're one of those users that feels some obsessive need to update everything, all the time), but I guarantee you it's more expensive for the average user over time. It's simple economics. Adobe would not have made it the only option if that weren't the case. This is a scheme that enables them to extract more money over time, and in a more "reliable" way. They are able to make enough additional money this way to overcome the losses of previous users who won't play these games and have moved to other software. My needs are lighter weight in any case, and I never felt the need to update every damn time a new version of photoshop came out, especially when there were often frustrating changes to deal with that offset the new features. Everyone has a different use case.
However, when the user base didn't immediately say "WTF Adobe, I'm Not Doing This!" out of the gate, it provided them the ability to remove the option for the rest of us to freely spend a lot of coin to buy a valuable piece of software without having to rent it (and allow it to phone home). So your choices affect me, and a lot of other people, in a negative way.
The other shit part about subscription software, and especially when tied to proprietary servers/services, is that in aggregate they're dangerous to people's privacy. I'm not going to work on personal documents or private business documents and have them sitting out on data aggregating company servers, whether they're graphics or text. Adobe is a small player in this market, but make no mistake they are still part of it. The ability to do anything on one's computer without having a corporate entity peering over your shoulder is getting more and more difficult, mostly because people are willing to bend over for all the new business models that are being shoved down their throats. Again, you might not care personally, but your decisions definitely affect other people's freedoms.
You can complain all you want. Software is going that way. I’ll bet that after some time, Affinity and the others will do it too.
how expensive is it? It depends on how you use software. We used to pay about $550 for PS upgrades about every 18 months. That was a long time ago. It was pretty expensive. We would pay about $750 every 18 months for the Production package. Again, a long time ago.
i pay $54 a month for the entire Adobe package of everything. That’s no more than the Production package was way back then.
Mel, over those 18 months you'll be paying roughly a $1000 for your current Adobe subscription.
IMO with so many options for viable and often very good production-quality software I personally think Adobe pricing is a bit high. Of course it may be out of necessity if they are losing share but want to maintain the same relative profit levels as when they sold standalone packages not all that long ago.
My shop hasn't yet needed to transition to an Adobe subscription, everything needed for production covered (so far) by CS6 along with some specialty software that requires no subscription. I remember "back in the day" skipping one or two Adobe upgrades if they didn't appear to offer value to us. In fact I might have skipped from CS3 to 6 but can't recall now. Early on we bought separate upgrades to specific Adobe programs as needed.
I don't remember when we transitioned to the Creative Suites, probably some special offer we couldn't resist.
So what you're saying is that you didn't like the way Adobe released their software. [...]
I didn't say that. I said it's better, easier, and cheaper, now. I didn't have a problem with it before.
Your complaint of being stuck with "deal-breaker bugs" is mostly BS. [...]
The specific example I was thinking of was a full year of Flash crashing randomly and without warning, erasing any unsaved progress to that point. It wasn't fixed in any maintenance updates until the next major CS release. As someone who worked in Flash alllll the time for years, I a) had no other choice obviously and b) had use the most recent version for various reasons that I won't go into here. That was a significant part of my job, and it wasn't optional. Adobe's products are updated more significantly mid-cycle, and bugs are fixed way more regularly now. Monopolistic blah blah blah BS yourself, It doesn't matter if it was Adobe or any other company — it was a tool I needed for a job and the situation is objectively better now.
Anyway, I find it tiring to engage on this blog because so many people can't have civil conversations.
Welcome to the internet! I hope you enjoy your stay.
You're using Adobe's servers to validate your software, [...] 7.5 million CC accounts were exposed recently? [...] That stuff doesn't need to exist when you buy a piece of software, but it does when you're renting.
Are you suggesting software companies don't keep customer data records unless it's subscription-based? Hoo boy. For someone who says "you don't work in this industry. I do.", I've got some news for you.
Their loss. But also my loss and society's loss, because this is going to get worse before it gets better.
Like I said, I think it's better. ¯\(°_o)/¯
Oh, and for what it's worth, it's not just me, [...] 30,000 signatures within the first few weeks alone. Lovely.
Oh, trust me, I'm very much aware you're not the only person complaining about Adobe on the internet. Have a nice day! *
Any plan that includes Photoshop for Desktop would include the iPad version as well.
Looks like you can also purchase it solo for $9.99/mo via in-app purchase, but not sure why you'd do that given that's the same price for the full Photography Plan.
The screenshot above says it’s included in the photography plan “if purchased before Jan 31, 2020.” That might be the reason.
Yeah, I saw that and am not sure what they’re intending to change at that point. Maybe this one gets moved to just the all-apps plan? Dunno.
As I said, it’s there now. I have it.
Not sure if you’re replying to me? I was referring to the fact they say it’s included in the Photography Plan but only before the end of January, so wondering if they’re restructuring plans at that point.
Their policy is to include all their software in the full plan. Period. The photography plan will change as they shift software around, but their objective is to have all of their iOS software available on different plans, depending on the focus of the plan. So we’ll see PS for iOS available with the Mac version, etc.
Then it's still not clear why they'd no longer include iPad Photoshop with the Photography Plan after the end of January.
Subscription model, so, I don’t care. I’m done with Adobe.
Nobody cares.
Well, two people care.
A lot more than two people care, I'm done with Adobe as well. I used to buy their products years ago, but no more. Subscription software is almost always bullshit, just a way for companies to extract more $ from their customer base. Lest anyone think they're getting a "deal" with subscription software, you need to remember that companies are moving to this model because it better serves their bottom line, not the other way around. This should be obvious.
But as long as people continue to buy into the BS, and treat Adobe's cloud storage as some sort of magical thing that they couldn't just as easily implement in a way that people could use their own arbitrary servers, then Adobe will keep sucking all of you suckers' money out even faster than before. And forcing you to update on their timetable instead of your own. It's really sad that people have fallen for this, but there are so many things people have stupidly fallen into in recent years, like facebook, so it's not surprising.
The vast majority of their users are like me. We use the software for our jobs, and don’t flinch at paying what ends up cheaper than Keeping up to date with the old Creative Suite Master Collection back in the day. I pay for my CC membership in about half an hour of billable work each month. If you don’t use it for work, there are plenty of cheap alternatives for nearly all their software across the board for you out there.
But thanks for implying that everyone who uses CC professionally is stupid! /eyerolllllllll
The actual intent was to say that everyone who uses facebook is stupid, but poorly written in haste, and it's a different topic anyway. Dropped.
But I'll say a little more on the other part. The price of subscription software might not matter to you, and it might possibly be cheaper for you, personally (but only if you're one of those users that feels some obsessive need to update everything, all the time), but I guarantee you it's more expensive for the average user over time. It's simple economics. Adobe would not have made it the only option if that weren't the case. This is a scheme that enables them to extract more money over time, and in a more "reliable" way. They are able to make enough additional money this way to overcome the losses of previous users who won't play these games and have moved to other software. My needs are lighter weight in any case, and I never felt the need to update every damn time a new version of photoshop came out, especially when there were often frustrating changes to deal with that offset the new features. Everyone has a different use case.
However, when the user base didn't immediately say "WTF Adobe, I'm Not Doing This!" out of the gate, it provided them the ability to remove the option for the rest of us to freely spend a lot of coin to buy a valuable piece of software without having to rent it (and allow it to phone home). So your choices affect me, and a lot of other people, in a negative way.
The other shit part about subscription software, and especially when tied to proprietary servers/services, is that in aggregate they're dangerous to people's privacy. I'm not going to work on personal documents or private business documents and have them sitting out on data aggregating company servers, whether they're graphics or text. Adobe is a small player in this market, but make no mistake they are still part of it. The ability to do anything on one's computer without having a corporate entity peering over your shoulder is getting more and more difficult, mostly because people are willing to bend over for all the new business models that are being shoved down their throats. Again, you might not care personally, but your decisions definitely affect other people's freedoms.
You can complain all you want. Software is going that way. I’ll bet that after some time, Affinity and the others will do it too.
how expensive is it? It depends on how you use software. We used to pay about $550 for PS upgrades about every 18 months. That was a long time ago. It was pretty expensive. We would pay about $750 every 18 months for the Production package. Again, a long time ago.
i pay $54 a month for the entire Adobe package of everything. That’s no more than the Production package was way back then.
Mel, over those 18 months you'll be paying roughly a $1000 for your current Adobe subscription.
IMO with so many options for viable and often very good production-quality software I personally think Adobe pricing is a bit high. Of course it may be out of necessity if they are losing share but want to maintain the same relative profit levels as when they sold standalone packages not all that long ago.
My shop hasn't yet needed to transition to an Adobe subscription, everything needed for production covered (so far) by CS6 along with some specialty software that requires no subscription. I remember "back in the day" skipping one or two Adobe upgrades if they didn't appear to offer value to us. In fact I might have skipped from CS3 to 6 but can't recall now. Early on we bought separate upgrades to specific Adobe programs as needed.
I don't remember when we transitioned to the Creative Suites, probably some special offer we couldn't resist.
Not that everyone does this, but you can actually get the CC subscription during Black Friday or other sales for $44/mo. I've been paying about that much the last couple years, you just have to hit up support in chat and they'll rig it for you.
I was a Master Collection user, for a few items that weren't in any of the other bundles. That license was $2600, and upgrades I think were around $1500? I don't recall for sure. Also, it wasn't always an 18 month cycle — after CS5, it was a yearly cycle (more or less) between that and CS5.5 and CS6.
I do think a slightly crippled "indie" bundle of like 2-3 apps and reduced feature set (remember Photoshop versus Photoshop Extended?) for casual users wouldn't be a bad idea, but I'm sure we'd still hear the eternal bitching of subscription pricing haters no matter how much cheaper that was.
No matter what though, paying $528/year right now is helluva lot cheaper than whatever the above added up to, same with Mel's $648/year. For anyone who makes a living working in this software, this is a tax deductible bargain, really.
Subscription model, so, I don’t care. I’m done with Adobe.
Nobody cares.
Well, two people care.
A lot more than two people care, I'm done with Adobe as well. I used to buy their products years ago, but no more. Subscription software is almost always bullshit, just a way for companies to extract more $ from their customer base. Lest anyone think they're getting a "deal" with subscription software, you need to remember that companies are moving to this model because it better serves their bottom line, not the other way around. This should be obvious.
But as long as people continue to buy into the BS, and treat Adobe's cloud storage as some sort of magical thing that they couldn't just as easily implement in a way that people could use their own arbitrary servers, then Adobe will keep sucking all of you suckers' money out even faster than before. And forcing you to update on their timetable instead of your own. It's really sad that people have fallen for this, but there are so many things people have stupidly fallen into in recent years, like facebook, so it's not surprising.
The vast majority of their users are like me. We use the software for our jobs, and don’t flinch at paying what ends up cheaper than Keeping up to date with the old Creative Suite Master Collection back in the day. I pay for my CC membership in about half an hour of billable work each month. If you don’t use it for work, there are plenty of cheap alternatives for nearly all their software across the board for you out there.
But thanks for implying that everyone who uses CC professionally is stupid! /eyerolllllllll
The actual intent was to say that everyone who uses facebook is stupid, but poorly written in haste, and it's a different topic anyway. Dropped.
But I'll say a little more on the other part. The price of subscription software might not matter to you, and it might possibly be cheaper for you, personally (but only if you're one of those users that feels some obsessive need to update everything, all the time), but I guarantee you it's more expensive for the average user over time. It's simple economics. Adobe would not have made it the only option if that weren't the case. This is a scheme that enables them to extract more money over time, and in a more "reliable" way. They are able to make enough additional money this way to overcome the losses of previous users who won't play these games and have moved to other software. My needs are lighter weight in any case, and I never felt the need to update every damn time a new version of photoshop came out, especially when there were often frustrating changes to deal with that offset the new features. Everyone has a different use case.
However, when the user base didn't immediately say "WTF Adobe, I'm Not Doing This!" out of the gate, it provided them the ability to remove the option for the rest of us to freely spend a lot of coin to buy a valuable piece of software without having to rent it (and allow it to phone home). So your choices affect me, and a lot of other people, in a negative way.
The other shit part about subscription software, and especially when tied to proprietary servers/services, is that in aggregate they're dangerous to people's privacy. I'm not going to work on personal documents or private business documents and have them sitting out on data aggregating company servers, whether they're graphics or text. Adobe is a small player in this market, but make no mistake they are still part of it. The ability to do anything on one's computer without having a corporate entity peering over your shoulder is getting more and more difficult, mostly because people are willing to bend over for all the new business models that are being shoved down their throats. Again, you might not care personally, but your decisions definitely affect other people's freedoms.
You can complain all you want. Software is going that way. I’ll bet that after some time, Affinity and the others will do it too.
how expensive is it? It depends on how you use software. We used to pay about $550 for PS upgrades about every 18 months. That was a long time ago. It was pretty expensive. We would pay about $750 every 18 months for the Production package. Again, a long time ago.
i pay $54 a month for the entire Adobe package of everything. That’s no more than the Production package was way back then.
Mel, over those 18 months you'll be paying roughly a $1000 for your current Adobe subscription.
IMO with so many options for viable and often very good production-quality software I personally think Adobe pricing is a bit high. Of course it may be out of necessity if they are losing share but want to maintain the same relative profit levels as when they sold standalone packages not all that long ago.
My shop hasn't yet needed to transition to an Adobe subscription, everything needed for production covered (so far) by CS6 along with some specialty software that requires no subscription. I remember "back in the day" skipping one or two Adobe upgrades if they didn't appear to offer value to us. In fact I might have skipped from CS3 to 6 but can't recall now. Early on we bought separate upgrades to specific Adobe programs as needed.
I don't remember when we transitioned to the Creative Suites, probably some special offer we couldn't resist.
Actually, $972. But that was some time ago, for the non sub versions, and with inflation, the costs are about the same. But the major difference, and benefit, is that with my sub, I get all of Adobe’s software. The advantage with that is that since you have the software. You will tend to use some of it that you wouldn’t before, when you had to pay a LOT extra for it. This gives you business opportunities you didn’t have before, because you simply didn’t think of it.
Any plan that includes Photoshop for Desktop would include the iPad version as well.
Looks like you can also purchase it solo for $9.99/mo via in-app purchase, but not sure why you'd do that given that's the same price for the full Photography Plan.
The screenshot above says it’s included in the photography plan “if purchased before Jan 31, 2020.” That might be the reason.
Yeah, I saw that and am not sure what they’re intending to change at that point. Maybe this one gets moved to just the all-apps plan? Dunno.
As I said, it’s there now. I have it.
Not sure if you’re replying to me? I was referring to the fact they say it’s included in the Photography Plan but only before the end of January, so wondering if they’re restructuring plans at that point.
Their policy is to include all their software in the full plan. Period. The photography plan will change as they shift software around, but their objective is to have all of their iOS software available on different plans, depending on the focus of the plan. So we’ll see PS for iOS available with the Mac version, etc.
Then it's still not clear why they'd no longer include iPad Photoshop with the Photography Plan after the end of January.
We don’t know that. What they’re doing now may be an experiment to see which packages people prefer. There’s no point in speculation, because it doesn’t matter. In January, we’ll know.
Comments
IMO with so many options for viable and often very good production-quality software I personally think Adobe pricing is a bit high. Of course it may be out of necessity if they are losing share but want to maintain the same relative profit levels as when they sold standalone packages not all that long ago.
My shop hasn't yet needed to transition to an Adobe subscription, everything needed for production covered (so far) by CS6 along with some specialty software that requires no subscription. I remember "back in the day" skipping one or two Adobe upgrades if they didn't appear to offer value to us. In fact I might have skipped from CS3 to 6 but can't recall now. Early on we bought separate upgrades to specific Adobe programs as needed.
I don't remember when we transitioned to the Creative Suites, probably some special offer we couldn't resist.
The specific example I was thinking of was a full year of Flash crashing randomly and without warning, erasing any unsaved progress to that point. It wasn't fixed in any maintenance updates until the next major CS release. As someone who worked in Flash alllll the time for years, I a) had no other choice obviously and b) had use the most recent version for various reasons that I won't go into here. That was a significant part of my job, and it wasn't optional. Adobe's products are updated more significantly mid-cycle, and bugs are fixed way more regularly now. Monopolistic blah blah blah BS yourself, It doesn't matter if it was Adobe or any other company — it was a tool I needed for a job and the situation is objectively better now.
Welcome to the internet! I hope you enjoy your stay.
Are you suggesting software companies don't keep customer data records unless it's subscription-based? Hoo boy. For someone who says "you don't work in this industry. I do.", I've got some news for you.
Like I said, I think it's better. ¯\(°_o)/¯
Oh, trust me, I'm very much aware you're not the only person complaining about Adobe on the internet. Have a nice day!
* added for civility
Then it's still not clear why they'd no longer include iPad Photoshop with the Photography Plan after the end of January.
I was a Master Collection user, for a few items that weren't in any of the other bundles. That license was $2600, and upgrades I think were around $1500? I don't recall for sure. Also, it wasn't always an 18 month cycle — after CS5, it was a yearly cycle (more or less) between that and CS5.5 and CS6.
I do think a slightly crippled "indie" bundle of like 2-3 apps and reduced feature set (remember Photoshop versus Photoshop Extended?) for casual users wouldn't be a bad idea, but I'm sure we'd still hear the eternal bitching of subscription pricing haters no matter how much cheaper that was.
No matter what though, paying $528/year right now is helluva lot cheaper than whatever the above added up to, same with Mel's $648/year. For anyone who makes a living working in this software, this is a tax deductible bargain, really.
We don’t know that. What they’re doing now may be an experiment to see which packages people prefer. There’s no point in speculation, because it doesn’t matter. In January, we’ll know.