Apple survived dark days with optimism & teamwork, says Deirdre O'Brien

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  • Reply 21 of 59
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,067member
    sdw2001 said:
    I was with her until this:  

     "...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members." 


    Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out.  Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her.  My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?"  Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people?  Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive  in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising?  I mean, this isn't the 1980's.  Gays are widely accepted.  Gay marriage is legal in all states.  Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important.  I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.  

    Nope. You can still be fired for being gay, in 17 states in the union. I consider that being underrepresented. If you could be fired for putting a picture of your wife on your desk you would be flipping the fuck out. I guarantee it.

    Typically I find people who accuse others of "being so self-important" to be suffering deep rooted insecurities and jealousies. Absolutely nothing she said was self-important or virtual signaling. It just bothers you to hear other people talk about things that are meaningful to them that aren't to you.

    First of all, the ad hominem attack is not appreciated and not allowed.  I suggest you don't repeat it.  

    Secondly, you do have a reasonable point wrt to employment law.  Of course, people are typically not fired for being gay.  The only exceptions I can imagine are religious organizations or private orgs/clubs that have clear-cut requirements and standards.  Are you aware of any actual examples of people being fired, say, from a corporate position because it turns out they are gay? It certainly doesn't happen in public professions (I work in one...it wasn't even an issue 20 years ago).  

    Third, you're welcome to disagree with my assessment and view of her comment.  Your lashing out about my "insecurities and jealousies" is both prohibited, and frankly, somewhat bizarre.  I'm jealous of her?  Uh, OK then.  I'm "insecure" about....what?  My sexual orientation?  Did you even read the rest of the post?  Either way, my opinion was honest and I stand by it.  Now, I'm off to continue not worrying about the whole thing.  
    razorpitmobirdmacplusplusJaphey
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  • Reply 22 of 59
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,067member

    Soli said:
    sdw2001 said:
    I was with her until this:  

     "...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members." 


    Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out.  Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her.  My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?"  Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people?  Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive  in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising?  I mean, this isn't the 1980's.  Gays are widely accepted.  Gay marriage is legal in all states.  Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important.  I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.  

    Gay marriage is legal in all 50 states so there are no issues that homosexuals have to deal with? Huh?! This hasn't been an issue since the 1980s? What?! 

    Loving v. Virginia was in 1967 so by your measure interracial marriage hasn't been an issue for over half a century. There are countless examples that can be shown to you about less than equal treatment of people. 

    Sigh.  I can see we're getting into straw men arguments now.   At no time did I say homosexuals have no issues with which they have to deal.  What I did say is being gay is widely accepted in our culture now.  Do you dispute this?  

    I'm not exactly sure why you'd want to bring up interracial marriage.  It's been the law of the land, as you note, for even longer.  Culturally, it is also widely accepted.  That doesn't mean it is universally accepted, of course.   

    Getting back to the issue, I simply don't understand her "underrepresented" claim.  Approximately 5% of the population is gay according to most estimates.  Do you want to bet that more than 5% of Apple's workforce is gay?  
    razorpitmobirdmacplusplus
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 23 of 59
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,455member

    jimh2 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    I was with her until this:  

     "...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members." 


    Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out.  Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her.  My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?"  Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people?  Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive  in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising?  I mean, this isn't the 1980's.  Gays are widely accepted.  Gay marriage is legal in all states.  Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important.  I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.  

    Nope. You can still be fired for being gay, in 17 states in the union. I consider that being underrepresented. If you could be fired for putting a picture of your wife on your desk you would be flipping the fuck out. I guarantee it.

    Typically I find people who accuse others of "being so self-important" to be suffering deep rooted insecurities and jealousies. Absolutely nothing she said was self-important or virtual signaling. It just bothers you to hear other people talk about things that are meaningful to them that aren't to you.
    You can be fired in many if not most states for any reason with or without cause. Those 17 are not outliers. 
    My guess those 17 states voted for Trump.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 24 of 59
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    sdw2001 said:

    Soli said:
    sdw2001 said:
    I was with her until this:  

     "...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members." 


    Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out.  Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her.  My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?"  Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people?  Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive  in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising?  I mean, this isn't the 1980's.  Gays are widely accepted.  Gay marriage is legal in all states.  Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important.  I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.  

    Gay marriage is legal in all 50 states so there are no issues that homosexuals have to deal with? Huh?! This hasn't been an issue since the 1980s? What?! 

    Loving v. Virginia was in 1967 so by your measure interracial marriage hasn't been an issue for over half a century. There are countless examples that can be shown to you about less than equal treatment of people. 

    Sigh.  I can see we're getting into straw men arguments now.   At no time did I say homosexuals have no issues with which they have to deal.  What I did say is being gay is widely accepted in our culture now.  Do you dispute this?  

    I'm not exactly sure why you'd want to bring up interracial marriage.  It's been the law of the land, as you note, for even longer.  Culturally, it is also widely accepted.  That doesn't mean it is universally accepted, of course.   

    Getting back to the issue, I simply don't understand her "underrepresented" claim.  Approximately 5% of the population is gay according to most estimates.  Do you want to bet that more than 5% of Apple's workforce is gay?  
    I think what you are missing, perhaps deliberately or you choose not to read the article is that she came out 25 years ago. Yes she lives in California but is from Michigan. Probably more conservative there and then. 
    fastasleep
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 25 of 59
    AppleExposedappleexposed Posts: 1,805unconfirmed, member
    razorpit said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Thrashman said:
     Coming out. - Not sure what you do in your private life is anyone’s business- so not sure why you bring it up.



    Someone asked her what her proudest moment was; she answered honestly.

     Do you think she should have said, "learning to ride a unicycle" just to protect your delicate self?
    Well that's what I would have said had I learned to ride one.

    tundraboy said:
    Thrashman said:
     Coming out. - Not sure what you do in your private life is anyone’s business- so not sure why you bring it up.

    Perhaps I’m wrong - I’m today’s world it’s probably the only way to get a promotion / job is by announcing ur sexuality etc.  

    Odd.
    Maybe you yourself won't benefit from it. But thousands of lives will be improved, even saved by people from all walks of life telling their coming out story. (Just do a casual search on "gay teen suicide" to understand.) The message is not really meant for you, should not offend you, so better to just disregard it. A little compassion goes a long way. And if you think Apple, or any other successful company would promote a person just because they announce their sexuality (you really mean gayness, not sexuality), you must be living in a different planet. If at all, announcing that you are gay is bad for one's career. Why do you think so many people stay in the closet?
    I think the misunderstanding is many of us have compassion. So much in fact that we don't care about it because that's not how we identify people. Unless we're talking about my wife, I couldn't care less who sleeps with who, and no body I know cares either.

    In this day and age who stays in the closet?


    EXACTLY. As for who stays in the cl;oset? Males.

    A lesbian is praised and worshiped and sexualized positively while a gay male receives death threats, is humiliated and beaten. Many young boys have been killed when they've come out.
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  • Reply 26 of 59
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,475member
    Anyhoo, on matters I actually give a shit about, O’Brien is wrong. Apple’s darkest days were 1994-1997. By the change of the century Apple was well on the road to recovery.
    razorpitmobird
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 27 of 59
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    jimh2 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    I was with her until this:  

     "...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members." 


    Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out.  Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her.  My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?"  Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people?  Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive  in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising?  I mean, this isn't the 1980's.  Gays are widely accepted.  Gay marriage is legal in all states.  Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important.  I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.  

    Nope. You can still be fired for being gay, in 17 states in the union. I consider that being underrepresented. If you could be fired for putting a picture of your wife on your desk you would be flipping the fuck out. I guarantee it.

    Typically I find people who accuse others of "being so self-important" to be suffering deep rooted insecurities and jealousies. Absolutely nothing she said was self-important or virtual signaling. It just bothers you to hear other people talk about things that are meaningful to them that aren't to you.
    You can be fired in many if not most states for any reason with or without cause. Those 17 are not outliers. 
    If that’s the case then why are there tones of lawsuits filed for wrongful termination and millions of dollars awarded in damages. No, you cannot be fired for any reason. The reason has to be specific and legal. Fired for non-performance? Okay. Fired for being a woman, too old, gay? Not okay and not legal. I live near St. Louis , Missouri and a gay St. Louis County cop was just awarded $20 million by a jury because he was passed over for promotion again and again in spite of having an exemplary record and receiving  numerous awards.
    edited November 2019
    macplusplus
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 28 of 59
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    Rayz2016 said:
    Thrashman said:
     Coming out. - Not sure what you do in your private life is anyone’s business- so not sure why you bring it up.



    Someone asked her what her proudest moment was; she answered honestly.

     Do you think she should have said, "learning to ride a unicycle" just to protect your delicate self?
    If I could learn to ride a unicycle it would be my proudest moment. Especially if I could juggle at the same time. :-)
    Flaming. Whatever it is you are juggling has to be on fire or it doesn't count!
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 29 of 59
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    entropys said:
    Anyhoo, on matters I actually give a shit about, O’Brien is wrong. Apple’s darkest days were 1994-1997. By the change of the century Apple was well on the road to recovery.
    And for the record Microsoft did NOT save Apple. That’s the bullshit the trolls have been spreading around for years. Steve Jobs returned the company to its roots and customers took it from there. Customers who were not interested in the “good enough” slop house that was/is Windows. Same goes for Android in the new century.
    edited November 2019
    macplusplusAppleExposed
     1Like 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 30 of 59
    razorpit said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Thrashman said:
     Coming out. - Not sure what you do in your private life is anyone’s business- so not sure why you bring it up.



    Someone asked her what her proudest moment was; she answered honestly.

     Do you think she should have said, "learning to ride a unicycle" just to protect your delicate self?
    Well that's what I would have said had I learned to ride one.

    tundraboy said:
    Thrashman said:
     Coming out. - Not sure what you do in your private life is anyone’s business- so not sure why you bring it up.

    Perhaps I’m wrong - I’m today’s world it’s probably the only way to get a promotion / job is by announcing ur sexuality etc.  

    Odd.
    Maybe you yourself won't benefit from it. But thousands of lives will be improved, even saved by people from all walks of life telling their coming out story. (Just do a casual search on "gay teen suicide" to understand.) The message is not really meant for you, should not offend you, so better to just disregard it. A little compassion goes a long way. And if you think Apple, or any other successful company would promote a person just because they announce their sexuality (you really mean gayness, not sexuality), you must be living in a different planet. If at all, announcing that you are gay is bad for one's career. Why do you think so many people stay in the closet?
    I think the misunderstanding is many of us have compassion. So much in fact that we don't care about it because that's not how we identify people. Unless we're talking about my wife, I couldn't care less who sleeps with who, and no body I know cares either.

    In this day and age who stays in the closet?
    the last people in the closet are and will be assholes. they are also the ones who assault everyone else who has come out before them.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 31 of 59
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    spice-boy said:

    jimh2 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    I was with her until this:  

     "...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members." 


    Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out.  Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her.  My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?"  Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people?  Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive  in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising?  I mean, this isn't the 1980's.  Gays are widely accepted.  Gay marriage is legal in all states.  Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important.  I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.  

    Nope. You can still be fired for being gay, in 17 states in the union. I consider that being underrepresented. If you could be fired for putting a picture of your wife on your desk you would be flipping the fuck out. I guarantee it.

    Typically I find people who accuse others of "being so self-important" to be suffering deep rooted insecurities and jealousies. Absolutely nothing she said was self-important or virtual signaling. It just bothers you to hear other people talk about things that are meaningful to them that aren't to you.
    You can be fired in many if not most states for any reason with or without cause. Those 17 are not outliers. 
    My guess those 17 states voted for Trump.
    Hate to burst your little bubble, but a majority of the States did.
    razorpit said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Thrashman said:
     Coming out. - Not sure what you do in your private life is anyone’s business- so not sure why you bring it up.



    Someone asked her what her proudest moment was; she answered honestly.

     Do you think she should have said, "learning to ride a unicycle" just to protect your delicate self?
    Well that's what I would have said had I learned to ride one.

    tundraboy said:
    Thrashman said:
     Coming out. - Not sure what you do in your private life is anyone’s business- so not sure why you bring it up.

    Perhaps I’m wrong - I’m today’s world it’s probably the only way to get a promotion / job is by announcing ur sexuality etc.  

    Odd.
    Maybe you yourself won't benefit from it. But thousands of lives will be improved, even saved by people from all walks of life telling their coming out story. (Just do a casual search on "gay teen suicide" to understand.) The message is not really meant for you, should not offend you, so better to just disregard it. A little compassion goes a long way. And if you think Apple, or any other successful company would promote a person just because they announce their sexuality (you really mean gayness, not sexuality), you must be living in a different planet. If at all, announcing that you are gay is bad for one's career. Why do you think so many people stay in the closet?
    I think the misunderstanding is many of us have compassion. So much in fact that we don't care about it because that's not how we identify people. Unless we're talking about my wife, I couldn't care less who sleeps with who, and no body I know cares either.

    In this day and age who stays in the closet?


    EXACTLY. As for who stays in the cl;oset? Males.

    A lesbian is praised and worshiped and sexualized positively while a gay male receives death threats, is humiliated and beaten. Many young boys have been killed when they've come out.
    Just stop it with the bull. You and I both know nothing you said is true in the States. None of it.
    lkrupp said:
    jimh2 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    I was with her until this:  

     "...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members." 


    Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out.  Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her.  My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?"  Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people?  Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive  in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising?  I mean, this isn't the 1980's.  Gays are widely accepted.  Gay marriage is legal in all states.  Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important.  I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.  

    Nope. You can still be fired for being gay, in 17 states in the union. I consider that being underrepresented. If you could be fired for putting a picture of your wife on your desk you would be flipping the fuck out. I guarantee it.

    Typically I find people who accuse others of "being so self-important" to be suffering deep rooted insecurities and jealousies. Absolutely nothing she said was self-important or virtual signaling. It just bothers you to hear other people talk about things that are meaningful to them that aren't to you.
    You can be fired in many if not most states for any reason with or without cause. Those 17 are not outliers. 
    If that’s the case then why are there tones of lawsuits filed for wrongful termination and millions of dollars awarded in damages. No, you cannot be fired for any reason. The reason has to be specific and legal. Fired for non-performance? Okay. Fired for being a woman, too old, gay? Not okay and not legal. I live near St. Louis , Missouri and a gay St. Louis County cop was just awarded $20 million by a jury because he was passed over for promotion again and again in spite of having an exemplary record and receiving  numerous awards.
    This confirms you can't be treated differently for being gay.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 32 of 59
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    razorpit said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Thrashman said:
     Coming out. - Not sure what you do in your private life is anyone’s business- so not sure why you bring it up.



    Someone asked her what her proudest moment was; she answered honestly.

     Do you think she should have said, "learning to ride a unicycle" just to protect your delicate self?
    Well that's what I would have said had I learned to ride one.

    tundraboy said:
    Thrashman said:
     Coming out. - Not sure what you do in your private life is anyone’s business- so not sure why you bring it up.

    Perhaps I’m wrong - I’m today’s world it’s probably the only way to get a promotion / job is by announcing ur sexuality etc.  

    Odd.
    Maybe you yourself won't benefit from it. But thousands of lives will be improved, even saved by people from all walks of life telling their coming out story. (Just do a casual search on "gay teen suicide" to understand.) The message is not really meant for you, should not offend you, so better to just disregard it. A little compassion goes a long way. And if you think Apple, or any other successful company would promote a person just because they announce their sexuality (you really mean gayness, not sexuality), you must be living in a different planet. If at all, announcing that you are gay is bad for one's career. Why do you think so many people stay in the closet?
    I think the misunderstanding is many of us have compassion. So much in fact that we don't care about it because that's not how we identify people. Unless we're talking about my wife, I couldn't care less who sleeps with who, and no body I know cares either.

    In this day and age who stays in the closet?
    the last people in the closet are and will be assholes. they are also the ones who assault everyone else who has come out before them.
    If that's true then that sucks. No wonder there are higher suicide rates. Who wants to deal with assholes all the time?
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 33 of 59
    davgregdavgreg Posts: 1,078member
    Meanwhile, on issues other than her sexual orientation/identity...

    I hope she cleans house at Apple retail as the stores I have been in recently are not staffed by the most stellar of people.

    There was once a time when the best thing about Apple Retail was the people- they were top notch, knew the products and were customer first. That is not the way it is these days.

    When I went to get my iPhone 11Pro the store was a dumpster fire and at the front of a long line of customers waiting to pick up the phones they had already paid for was a cabal of employees staring at their own devices, ignoring customers and jabbering about stuff far removed from Apple Retail. Ms Thang quite loudly stated “she was ‘pose to be on break a long time ago” and sashayed past a long line of customers behind a rope line.

    We did not even get two snaps and a swirl.

    Tim, this is your company.
    razorpit
     0Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 34 of 59
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,067member
    asdasd said:
    sdw2001 said:

    Soli said:
    sdw2001 said:
    I was with her until this:  

     "...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members." 


    Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out.  Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her.  My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?"  Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people?  Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive  in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising?  I mean, this isn't the 1980's.  Gays are widely accepted.  Gay marriage is legal in all states.  Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important.  I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.  

    Gay marriage is legal in all 50 states so there are no issues that homosexuals have to deal with? Huh?! This hasn't been an issue since the 1980s? What?! 

    Loving v. Virginia was in 1967 so by your measure interracial marriage hasn't been an issue for over half a century. There are countless examples that can be shown to you about less than equal treatment of people. 

    Sigh.  I can see we're getting into straw men arguments now.   At no time did I say homosexuals have no issues with which they have to deal.  What I did say is being gay is widely accepted in our culture now.  Do you dispute this?  

    I'm not exactly sure why you'd want to bring up interracial marriage.  It's been the law of the land, as you note, for even longer.  Culturally, it is also widely accepted.  That doesn't mean it is universally accepted, of course.   

    Getting back to the issue, I simply don't understand her "underrepresented" claim.  Approximately 5% of the population is gay according to most estimates.  Do you want to bet that more than 5% of Apple's workforce is gay?  
    I think what you are missing, perhaps deliberately or you choose not to read the article is that she came out 25 years ago. Yes she lives in California but is from Michigan. Probably more conservative there and then. 

    Great, now we have posting glitches.  The short version is I saw she came out when she did.  Her comment was about the here and now, which is what I'm questioning.  I don't see how she is supporting "underrepresented team members" at liberal Apple, in liberal California, in a time where being is generally accepted most places in the country.  
    edited November 2019
    razorpit
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 35 of 59
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,487member
    sdw2001 said:
    asdasd said:
    sdw2001 said:

    Soli said:
    sdw2001 said:
    I was with her until this:  

     "...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members." 


    Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out.  Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her.  My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?"  Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people?  Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive  in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising?  I mean, this isn't the 1980's.  Gays are widely accepted.  Gay marriage is legal in all states.  Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important.  I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.  

    Gay marriage is legal in all 50 states so there are no issues that homosexuals have to deal with? Huh?! This hasn't been an issue since the 1980s? What?! 

    Loving v. Virginia was in 1967 so by your measure interracial marriage hasn't been an issue for over half a century. There are countless examples that can be shown to you about less than equal treatment of people. 

    Sigh.  I can see we're getting into straw men arguments now.   At no time did I say homosexuals have no issues with which they have to deal.  What I did say is being gay is widely accepted in our culture now.  Do you dispute this?  

    I'm not exactly sure why you'd want to bring up interracial marriage.  It's been the law of the land, as you note, for even longer.  Culturally, it is also widely accepted.  That doesn't mean it is universally accepted, of course.   

    Getting back to the issue, I simply don't understand her "underrepresented" claim.  Approximately 5% of the population is gay according to most estimates.  Do you want to bet that more than 5% of Apple's workforce is gay?  
    I think what you are missing, perhaps deliberately or you choose not to read the article is that she came out 25 years ago. Yes she lives in California but is from Michigan. Probably more conservative there and then. 

    Great, now we have posting glitches.  The short version is I saw she came out when she did.  Her comment was about the here and now, which is what I'm questioning.  I don't see how she is supporting "underrepresented team members" at liberal Apple, in liberal California, in a time where being is generally accepted most places in the country.  
    You know Apple is a worldwide company, yes? Do you also know there are many places in the world where LGBTQ communities literally live in fear of imprisonment, torture, or death?
    edited November 2019
    AppleExposedspice-boy
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 36 of 59
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,487member
    razorpit said:
    In this day and age who stays in the closet?
    Kids afraid of getting bullied or killed, for one. 
    AppleExposedspice-boy
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  • Reply 37 of 59
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    razorpit said:
    In this day and age who stays in the closet?
    Kids afraid of getting bullied or killed, for one. 
    Cupertino is not in the Middle East.
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  • Reply 38 of 59
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,487member
    razorpit said:
    razorpit said:
    In this day and age who stays in the closet?
    Kids afraid of getting bullied or killed, for one. 
    Cupertino is not in the Middle East.
    Neither are these places:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/tennessee-teen-s-suicide-highlights-dangers-anti-lgbtq-bullying-n1060976

    I live in a very liberal city and my gay friends are routinely yelled at, harassed, or worse, beaten within inches of their life. Not too long ago that happened to a gay woman in our historically gay-friendly neighborhood in front of a gay bar that I walk by every day. 

    If you think the Middle East is the only place people have to worry about being gay, then I don’t even know what to say. Maybe stop for a moment and think a little about what your argument looks like to other people who are literally just trying to live their lives without fearing for their own safety? 
    edited November 2019
    AppleExposedspice-boy
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  • Reply 39 of 59
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    sdw2001 said:
    I was with her until this:  

     "...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members." 


    Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out.  Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her.  My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?"  Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people?  Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive  in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising?  I mean, this isn't the 1980's.  Gays are widely accepted.  Gay marriage is legal in all states.  Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important.  I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.  

    Nope. You can still be fired for being gay, in 17 states in the union. I consider that being underrepresented. If you could be fired for putting a picture of your wife on your desk you would be flipping the fuck out. I guarantee it.

    Typically I find people who accuse others of "being so self-important" to be suffering deep rooted insecurities and jealousies. Absolutely nothing she said was self-important or virtual signaling. It just bothers you to hear other people talk about things that are meaningful to them that aren't to you.
    Here in lies the problem companies should have the right to fire people for any reason they might have. Special classes of people just breed hostility towards those people.  I’ve seen first hand how a reluctance to fire people have created really awful working conditions for employees.   Of course all sorts of personality disorders beyond homosexuality lead to these defective work places but the overriding fear that legal action might ensue if a person is fired leads to undesirable workplaces.  
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  • Reply 40 of 59
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member


    sdw2001 said:
    I was with her until this:  

     "...I consider it my responsibility and a privilege to show up every day in support of our underrepresented team members." 


    Let me be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with her pride in coming out.  Personally, her orientation doesn't matter to me in the slightest, but if she feels it was a big thing, good for her.  My question is....what does she mean by "underrepresented?"  Is she saying that Apple does't hire enough gay people?  Moreover, is her being an openly gay tech executive  in Palo Alto, CA really all that surprising?  I mean, this isn't the 1980's.  Gays are widely accepted.  Gay marriage is legal in all states.  Her statement seems to be virtue-signaling, and is so self-important.  I'm sure she doesn't view it that way, but...I wish people would get over themselves.  

    This is what really irritates people, because the idiots who said "it's not going to stop with equal rights" are now being proven right by even bigger idiots. Virtue signaling doesn't even cover it. These loud mouth narcissists are demanding special treatment that they think they're entitled to, and anyone who says, "Wait, what?" is just shut down by being called a bigot. Disagree with the political posturing of a person who is gay? Obviously a bigot.

    No, being a dumbass bigot is what makes someone a bigot.

    What part of you is pretending anyone is asking for "special treatment"? The right to marry, the right to adopt, or the right to not be fired merely for being gay? Because that's how the law stands in 17 states today, you can be fired for having a picture of your same-sex spouse on your desk. You would blow your gasket if you could be fired for having a picture of your glowing wife on yours, I assure you.
    Blowing a gasket isn’t a good enough reason to create a special class of protected people.   Creating such creates an unacceptable restraint on corporate management.     The problem is simple being gay can be a problem just like being a drunk can be a problem for a company.   It comes down to how much your problem interfere with the companies mission.  Firing somebody for being gay can be perfectly legitimate or a complete farce, it really depends upon context.   It is no different than firing somebody that drinks too much and brings that problem to work.   

     
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