The first part of a customary teardown by iFixit gives a closer look at the mechanism under the keycaps, confirming a shift away from butterfly. The version used in the new Mac Pro is claimed by the repair outfit to be "almost identical" to the switches used in the desktop Magic Keyboard, as well as pre-butterfly MacBooks.
Erm, "Mac Pro" -> MacBook Pro? Minor palpitations there!
jdw said:No need for the profanity. I am not full of feces, no. And no, I did not come directly here to give you a hard time. I read the article and then checked the comments like I always do. But as I read each comment I was curious how many would switch and worship the current status quo of scissor switches versus the previous status quo of butterflies.
I've been an Apple fan for decades, but I don't worship everything Apple says and does. I judge each change on its own merits. I don't try to defend Apple saying, "Crying about it in forums does nothing. Apple won't go back." like some of you folks do. The good news is that Apple DOES go back. The scissor switch is a switch back! In fact, I just sent them a MBP Feedback message congratulating them on that change, asking that the restore the SD card slot in an updated version. It doesn't matter to me if my feedback is ignored. If they keep coming out with machines that don't fully suit me, I simply won't buy them. But I feel obligated to tell them what I will buy. If most Mac users did that, we'd probably have a heck of a lot more practical hardware functionality than we have now. I love Apple's design aesthetic, but with multiple MacBook product lines, they can easily exercise minimalism on the low end lines and maximize ports on the "Pro." That's how it used to be on the MBP and is what it still should be now. It's not like we don't pay enough for that. Well, at least the keyboard improved. I think it will result in fewer complaints which is good for the customer and for Apple too.
"Worship"? Just because someone likes their butterfly keyboard doesn't equate to "worship". It's merely acceptance (although to be honest it does smack of the "Apple is a religion / Mac fans are cultists" tripe that many have spouted for decades).
Tactility requires Travel. Without a decent amount of key travel, typing feels like pounding your fingers on concrete.
Obviously if it feels like that, you’re typing far too hard. Do you type that hard on an iPad or iPhone? No.
The trackpad feels better than it used to once they removed the hinge. Every location on it feels and works the same without actually moving. Perhaps in the future they can invent a per-key mechanism that will make it feel like choosable range of travel without having the amount of physical travel people seem to expect for it to be a good keyboard.
I know I prefer the keyboard feel on the old scissor keyboard, but unlike others who blame that on the butterfly mechanism I think it's because of the reduced travel and resistance with those keyboards.
Scissors ... Butterfly ... Ha! Give me a real keyboard ... Here I am with a 'proper' Apple portable ... (Yes, mine was secretly adapted to have a touch screen).
Well, I discussed it with my daughter, and I’ll get here one. I’ll also take her 15” 2013 model I gave her for her last year of college (heck, time really goes by quickly), replacing the 2009 model I got her for her first year, and then took when she got the new one. I use it for my A/V system as a server. The 2009 model has continued to work well, even though it’s two OS upgrades behind. But, it’s about time everything gets upgraded. I wonder what I can use that ancient model for?
Well, I discussed it with my daughter, and I’ll get here one. I’ll also take her 15” 2013 model I gave her for her last year of college (heck, time really goes by quickly), replacing the 2009 model I got her for her first year, and then took when she got the new one. I use it for my A/V system as a server. The 2009 model has continued to work well, even though it’s two OS upgrades behind. But, it’s about time everything gets upgraded. I wonder what I can use that ancient model for?
You’re buying your adult college graduate daughter a brand new top end MacBook Pro? Can I have one too?
Scissors ... Butterfly ... Ha! Give me a real keyboard ... Here I am with a 'proper' Apple portable ... (Yes, mine was secretly adapted to have a touch screen).
Well, I discussed it with my daughter, and I’ll get here one. I’ll also take her 15” 2013 model I gave her for her last year of college (heck, time really goes by quickly), replacing the 2009 model I got her for her first year, and then took when she got the new one. I use it for my A/V system as a server. The 2009 model has continued to work well, even though it’s two OS upgrades behind. But, it’s about time everything gets upgraded. I wonder what I can use that ancient model for?
You’re buying your adult college graduate daughter a brand new top end MacBook Pro? Can I have one too?
Yeah. Well, she just moved to Texas, bought a car, a house, and so I figure a housewarming gift. She appreciates that more than a lamp. We would have bought the car, as it’s her first, but she wanted to pay for it herself.
Well, I discussed it with my daughter, and I’ll get here one. I’ll also take her 15” 2013 model I gave her for her last year of college (heck, time really goes by quickly), replacing the 2009 model I got her for her first year, and then took when she got the new one. I use it for my A/V system as a server. The 2009 model has continued to work well, even though it’s two OS upgrades behind. But, it’s about time everything gets upgraded. I wonder what I can use that ancient model for?
You’re buying your adult college graduate daughter a brand new top end MacBook Pro? Can I have one too?
Yeah. Well, she just moved to Texas, bought a car, a house, and so I figure a housewarming gift. She appreciates that more than a lamp. We would have bought the car, as it’s her first, but she wanted to pay for it herself.
That's got proud father written all over it ! Good burn and congratulations !
Well, I discussed it with my daughter, and I’ll get here one. I’ll also take her 15” 2013 model I gave her for her last year of college (heck, time really goes by quickly), replacing the 2009 model I got her for her first year, and then took when she got the new one. I use it for my A/V system as a server. The 2009 model has continued to work well, even though it’s two OS upgrades behind. But, it’s about time everything gets upgraded. I wonder what I can use that ancient model for?
You’re buying your adult college graduate daughter a brand new top end MacBook Pro? Can I have one too?
Yeah. Well, she just moved to Texas, bought a car, a house, and so I figure a housewarming gift. She appreciates that more than a lamp. We would have bought the car, as it’s her first, but she wanted to pay for it herself.
Well, I discussed it with my daughter, and I’ll get here one. I’ll also take her 15” 2013 model I gave her for her last year of college (heck, time really goes by quickly), replacing the 2009 model I got her for her first year, and then took when she got the new one. I use it for my A/V system as a server. The 2009 model has continued to work well, even though it’s two OS upgrades behind. But, it’s about time everything gets upgraded. I wonder what I can use that ancient model for?
You’re buying your adult college graduate daughter a brand new top end MacBook Pro? Can I have one too?
Yeah. Well, she just moved to Texas, bought a car, a house, and so I figure a housewarming gift. She appreciates that more than a lamp. We would have bought the car, as it’s her first, but she wanted to pay for it herself.
That's got proud father written all over it ! Good burn and congratulations !
Well, I discussed it with my daughter, and I’ll get here one. I’ll also take her 15” 2013 model I gave her for her last year of college (heck, time really goes by quickly), replacing the 2009 model I got her for her first year, and then took when she got the new one. I use it for my A/V system as a server. The 2009 model has continued to work well, even though it’s two OS upgrades behind. But, it’s about time everything gets upgraded. I wonder what I can use that ancient model for?
You’re buying your adult college graduate daughter a brand new top end MacBook Pro? Can I have one too?
Yeah. Well, she just moved to Texas, bought a car, a house, and so I figure a housewarming gift. She appreciates that more than a lamp. We would have bought the car, as it’s her first, but she wanted to pay for it herself.
So "Yeah" meaning I can have one too?
Heh. I’m not as close to you as I am to her, though I’m sure you’re a nice guy.
jdw said:No need for the profanity. I am not full of feces, no. And no, I did not come directly here to give you a hard time. I read the article and then checked the comments like I always do. But as I read each comment I was curious how many would switch and worship the current status quo of scissor switches versus the previous status quo of butterflies.
I've been an Apple fan for decades, but I don't worship everything Apple says and does. I judge each change on its own merits. I don't try to defend Apple saying, "Crying about it in forums does nothing. Apple won't go back." like some of you folks do. The good news is that Apple DOES go back. The scissor switch is a switch back! In fact, I just sent them a MBP Feedback message congratulating them on that change, asking that the restore the SD card slot in an updated version. It doesn't matter to me if my feedback is ignored. If they keep coming out with machines that don't fully suit me, I simply won't buy them. But I feel obligated to tell them what I will buy. If most Mac users did that, we'd probably have a heck of a lot more practical hardware functionality than we have now. I love Apple's design aesthetic, but with multiple MacBook product lines, they can easily exercise minimalism on the low end lines and maximize ports on the "Pro." That's how it used to be on the MBP and is what it still should be now. It's not like we don't pay enough for that. Well, at least the keyboard improved. I think it will result in fewer complaints which is good for the customer and for Apple too.
"Worship"? Just because someone likes their butterfly keyboard doesn't equate to "worship". It's merely acceptance (although to be honest it does smack of the "Apple is a religion / Mac fans are cultists" tripe that many have spouted for decades).
You appear to be unaware of the etymology of the word "worship" insofar as it came from the older English "woerthship" which describes giving something extreme worth. Many in this very forum had been giving that horrid butterfly keyboard more value and worth than it deserved, hence my proper use of "worship" in describing what those folks have done and continue to do. It was NOT mere "acceptance," but a warm embrace unlike anything I'd see in a long while, despite the fact mere debris could cause keys to fail. I too like key stability, but not at the expense of key travel, which is the great failing of the butterfly keyboard. Getting back to the point, "worship" can have a connection to religion but not always. It has to do with worth. Even in Christianity that is true and is really what one does if they worship God, attributing extreme worth to Him. But my context was not religious as much as it targeted the WORTH people were giving that horrid keyboard design.
The good news is that Apple did go back to scissor switches, a move that many butterfly worshippers never thought would happen. I too had my doubts, but I made a commitment never to buy another MacBook as long as it had the butterfly keyboard, and it would seem a lot of other people thought that way too. I doubt Apple made the decision to switch back alone, ignoring the needs and wants of Mac lovers worldwide. And again, that's why I send them feedback. I'm still waiting for Apple to restore the SD card slot -- a high speed UHS-II slot, at that. And yes, I send them feedback about that too, on a regular basis. If they can go back to a better keyboard, they can get back to the good old "Pro" days of the MacBook that gave us more for our money. Fingers crossed.
jdw said:No need for the profanity. I am not full of feces, no. And no, I did not come directly here to give you a hard time. I read the article and then checked the comments like I always do. But as I read each comment I was curious how many would switch and worship the current status quo of scissor switches versus the previous status quo of butterflies.
I've been an Apple fan for decades, but I don't worship everything Apple says and does. I judge each change on its own merits. I don't try to defend Apple saying, "Crying about it in forums does nothing. Apple won't go back." like some of you folks do. The good news is that Apple DOES go back. The scissor switch is a switch back! In fact, I just sent them a MBP Feedback message congratulating them on that change, asking that the restore the SD card slot in an updated version. It doesn't matter to me if my feedback is ignored. If they keep coming out with machines that don't fully suit me, I simply won't buy them. But I feel obligated to tell them what I will buy. If most Mac users did that, we'd probably have a heck of a lot more practical hardware functionality than we have now. I love Apple's design aesthetic, but with multiple MacBook product lines, they can easily exercise minimalism on the low end lines and maximize ports on the "Pro." That's how it used to be on the MBP and is what it still should be now. It's not like we don't pay enough for that. Well, at least the keyboard improved. I think it will result in fewer complaints which is good for the customer and for Apple too.
"Worship"? Just because someone likes their butterfly keyboard doesn't equate to "worship". It's merely acceptance (although to be honest it does smack of the "Apple is a religion / Mac fans are cultists" tripe that many have spouted for decades).
You appear to be unaware of the etymology of the word "worship" insofar as it came from the older English "woerthship" which describes giving something extreme worth. Many in this very forum had been giving that horrid butterfly keyboard more value and worth than it deserved, hence my proper use of "worship" in describing what those folks have done and continue to do. It was NOT mere "acceptance," but a warm embrace unlike anything I'd see in a long while, despite the fact mere debris could cause keys to fail. I too like key stability, but not at the expense of key travel, which is the great failing of the butterfly keyboard. Getting back to the point, "worship" can have a connection to religion but not always. It has to do with worth. Even in Christianity that is true and is really what one does if they worship God, attributing extreme worth to Him. But my context was not religious as much as it targeted the WORTH people were giving that horrid keyboard design.
The good news is that Apple did go back to scissor switches, a move that many butterfly worshippers never thought would happen. I too had my doubts, but I made a commitment never to buy another MacBook as long as it had the butterfly keyboard, and it would seem a lot of other people thought that way too. I doubt Apple made the decision to switch back alone, ignoring the needs and wants of Mac lovers worldwide. And again, that's why I send them feedback. I'm still waiting for Apple to restore the SD card slot -- a high speed UHS-II slot, at that. And yes, I send them feedback about that too, on a regular basis. If they can go back to a better keyboard, they can get back to the good old "Pro" days of the MacBook that gave us more for our money. Fingers crossed.
You’re conflating actual enjoyment of the keyboard with reliability. I love the keyboard on my 2018 MBP, but have recently been experiencing the reliability issues and look forward to getting the keyboard replaced with the improved 2019 mechanism. If it’s reliable, then great — because I genuinely like the keyboard. I also expect to quite like the 16” keyboard.
Comments
I know I prefer the keyboard feel on the old scissor keyboard, but unlike others who blame that on the butterfly mechanism I think it's because of the reduced travel and resistance with those keyboards.
Heh. I’m not as close to you as I am to her, though I’m sure you’re a nice guy.
The good news is that Apple did go back to scissor switches, a move that many butterfly worshippers never thought would happen. I too had my doubts, but I made a commitment never to buy another MacBook as long as it had the butterfly keyboard, and it would seem a lot of other people thought that way too. I doubt Apple made the decision to switch back alone, ignoring the needs and wants of Mac lovers worldwide. And again, that's why I send them feedback. I'm still waiting for Apple to restore the SD card slot -- a high speed UHS-II slot, at that. And yes, I send them feedback about that too, on a regular basis. If they can go back to a better keyboard, they can get back to the good old "Pro" days of the MacBook that gave us more for our money. Fingers crossed.