Apple and Big Tech companies to face increased European regulation

Posted:
in General Discussion
The European Commission's antitrust head, Margrethe Vestager, fined Apple billions, and plans tighter tech regulation as she takes up a second five-year term.

Apple's Irish headquarters
Apple's Irish headquarters


Apple's $14 billion tax bill in Ireland was ultimately the decision of one person, Margrethe Vestager, who has been head of the European Commission's antitrust division for five years. In a rare move for the EC, she has been signed on to continue in the role for a further five years. And she promises increased regulation, investigation and, when necessary, punishment of big tech companies.

"In the last five years, some of the darker sides of digital technologies have become visible," she told the New York Times.

Most recently, Vestager has spoken of investigating concerns over Apple Pay and competition. And she points to issues such as the complaints Spotify has taken to the EC about Apple Music.

"Some of these platforms, they have the role both as player and referee, and how can that be fair?" she said. "You would never accept a football match where the one team was also being the referee."

While she heads the EC's division, and so represents all of the member countries of the European Union, she has to get universal agreement from them to implement new regulations. At present, she's working to both speed up processes and implement what are called "interim measures" too. This sees companies being issued cease-and-desist orders as soon as an investigation is begun.

One issue Vestager will be key to is the European Union's new Digital Services Act, which aims to prevent internet sites spreading false information and hate speech on services such as Facebook.

"You have to take it down because it spreads like a virus," she told NYT. "But if it's not fast enough, of course, eventually we will have to regulate this."

Vestager does not, however, see regulation as a way to hamper US firms and benefit European ones.

"One of the main reasons that U.S. tech companies are popular in Europe is that their products are good," she said.

However, she says that Europe does not necessarily agree with how the US and others have what NYT described as wide-open technology polices. She also says that she and Europe have to step in when companies "cut corners."

"Market forces are more than welcome, but we do not leave it to market forces to have the final say," she continued. "Markets are not perfect."
philboogie

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 15
    To whom will those billions go? Will Europe decrease their taxes after collecting those billions? 

    "In the last five years, some of the darker sides of digital technologies have become visible,"

    One can argue that in the last 5 years the darker side of politicians have also become visible.

    edited November 2019 mwhitesteven n.cat52anantksundaram
  • Reply 2 of 15
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    It is open season on Businesses, and it is only going to get worse. 

    Politician do not care since they live off he back of everyone else who works to earn a living. Even when everyone else does not make enough for to pay for them they just spend money they do not have. I feel bad for the generation coming up since they will be the ones who will pay in many ways for this war on business. What I find interesting is all these people who claim companies are bad do not seem to realize who is paying them to live the way they live. Without big business who current employ over 50% of the US Population and probably similar in the EU these people will be without a job and if they have a job is will not pay as well as working for the big business.

    I personally just need another 10 years, then liquidate the investments and live how I want an not worry about what these idiots what to do to themselves. They can fine the shit out of all these companies and make sure they steal all the billionaires money. Then when they complain they can not afford their Starbucks coffee or avocado toast i will just laugh at them and remind them they got what they wanted, government controlled everything.

    BTW, It looks like Apple is rethinking all of this, they are holding back from expanding into India especially on things like Apple pay and Apple Credit card since India is looking to go the China path which all data for India must be stored on servers owns by an India company and that data must be accessible by the government of India for AI development, to so call help the people of India, yeah that will work out well.
    edited November 2019 entropyssteven n.cat52
  • Reply 3 of 15
    davgregdavgreg Posts: 1,046member
    maestro64 said:
    It is open season on Businesses, and it is only going to get worse. 

    It does not seem to be “open season” on business. Business is less regulated than at any time in the last 40 years.

    The trend to deregulation began in the mid-1970’s with trucking and aviation under President Carter in the US. That trend continued through the Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama administrations. Under Trump it has seen activist appointees rewriting definitions of terms and the implementation of existing rules.

    In tandem with a general trend to less regulation is a trend for soft touch regulation that allows for self reporting instead of inspection and very minimal fines. The anti-trust oversight and enforcement at the Federal level has become a lapdog rather than a watchdog.

    Europe has to some extent followed the US in less regulation and oversight, but is much more proactive in consumer protection than in the US. That is their system and Apple will have a choice to make- deal with it or not offer services in the market that offend local laws.
    edited November 2019 avon b7CloudTalkindysamoriaphilboogieargonautmuthuk_vanalingamcropr
  • Reply 4 of 15
    FatmanFatman Posts: 513member
    Useless politicians ... the real issue is that Europe has lost its edge (if it ever had one?) their economies, manufacturing, innovation lag America and Asia. Their cities are shrinking - many European countries now rely on tourism to ironically celebrate their prosperity from centuries ago (artwork and structures) So their answer is to tax successful American technology businesses? Hey wake up Europe and fix what’s broken - you have American technology to help you!
    entropyscat52anantksundaram
  • Reply 5 of 15
    JanNLJanNL Posts: 327member
    "In a rare move for the EC, she has been signed on to continue in the role for a further five years." This ís an extraordinarily move, but I know why she can continue... more and more countries are not willing to pay more to be a "member" and the EU and all their institutions want more money (especially when UK stop their contribution). And Vestager brings in the billions!
    cat52
  • Reply 6 of 15
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,263member
    maestro64 said:
    It is open season on Businesses, and it is only going to get worse. 

    Politician do not care since they live off he back of everyone else who works to earn a living. Even when everyone else does not make enough for to pay for them they just spend money they do not have. I feel bad for the generation coming up since they will be the ones who will pay in many ways for this war on business. What I find interesting is all these people who claim companies are bad do not seem to realize who is paying them to live the way they live. Without big business who current employ over 50% of the US Population and probably similar in the EU these people will be without a job and if they have a job is will not pay as well as working for the big business.

    I personally just need another 10 years, then liquidate the investments and live how I want an not worry about what these idiots what to do to themselves. They can fine the shit out of all these companies and make sure they steal all the billionaires money. Then when they complain they can not afford their Starbucks coffee or avocado toast i will just laugh at them and remind them they got what they wanted, government controlled everything.

    BTW, It looks like Apple is rethinking all of this, they are holding back from expanding into India especially on things like Apple pay and Apple Credit card since India is looking to go the China path which all data for India must be stored on servers owns by an India company and that data must be accessible by the government of India for AI development, to so call help the people of India, yeah that will work out well.
    It’s like the lessons of the 20th century and the role of government aren’t taught. Too big and powerful a government, especially those where it entwines itself into the operation of the means of production, and it all ends badly. Every Single Time.  The idiots think it will turn out differently with them in charge of course.

    As for your investments, good luck with that: politicians will just change the rules to take your clearly ill gotten gains, because the government will decide it needs them more. Politicians exempt of course.
    cat52
  • Reply 7 of 15
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    davgreg said:
    maestro64 said:
    It is open season on Businesses, and it is only going to get worse. 

    It does not seem to be “open season” on business. Business is less regulated than at any time in the last 40 years.

    The trend to deregulation began in the mid-1970’s with trucking and aviation under President Carter in the US. That trend continued through the Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama administrations. Under Trump it has seen activist appointees rewriting definitions of terms and the implementation of existing rules.

    In tandem with a general trend to less regulation is a trend for soft touch regulation that allows for self reporting instead of inspection and very minimal fines. The anti-trust oversight and enforcement at the Federal level has become a lapdog rather than a watchdog.

    Europe has to some extent followed the US in less regulation and oversight, but is much more proactive in consumer protection than in the US. That is their system and Apple will have a choice to make- deal with it or not offer services in the market that offend local laws.
    This is the only sane response here. It is worth repeating as a quote.

    There’s a shocking amount of corporate bootlicking and antigovernment sentiment going on in comments on stories here at Apple Insider. It’s been going on for a long time. It flies in the face of clear evidence that corporations are absolutely dominating our systems and government (being antigovernment isn’t the solution to coporatocracy invading your government). The USA is a plutocratic oligarchy.

    As stated above: business regulation is at its lowest point in decades, yet these commentators act like there’s some kind of eminent threat from government. It’s like watching conspiracy theorists try to drum up FUD.

    How exactly did so many Apple fanatics become antigovernment libertarians? Or is it the other way around? Why are they attracted to Apple products in the first place? Is this just the mindset of success-worship?

    Give corporations free license at your peril. History has proven REPEATEDLY that they will NOT self regulate and that they WILL harm society without being coerced to do the right things (or at least to not do their worst). 
    philboogieargonautmuthuk_vanalingamcroprgatorguyprismatics
  • Reply 8 of 15
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 1,229member
     One issue Vestager will be key to is the European Union's new Digital Services Act, which aims to prevent internet sites spreading false information and hate speech on services such as Facebook.”

    Who gets to decide “hate speech”. There are those that would have used laws like that to shut down Dr. M.L. King and that is why the concept of regulating speech has to be done with a very light touch and crystal clear boundaries. 

    I am amazed there are still people which are scared of “big business” but worship heavy handed, and almost authoritarian, big government. 
    cat52
  • Reply 9 of 15
    seanjseanj Posts: 319member
    ... but worship heavy handed, and almost authoritarian, big government. 
    Now you know why the UK voted to leave the EU, it's on a path to a centralised authoritarian EU government. There are citizens of other countries who see what is happening or have suffered at the hands of the EU, such as Greece. However once a country adopts the Euro it becomes impossible to leave the EU without its economy being wrecked, the Euro is a trap which thankfully the UK avoided.
    cat52entropysanantksundaram
  • Reply 10 of 15
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,263member
    Business is less regulated? Only a government person, or an activist could believe that.
    there are three types of regulation that these days are particularly out of control:
    • the type where Politicians cosying up to activists raise the cost of production;
    • the type where Politicians cosy up with big business to create barriers to entry for smaller outfits;
    • the type that increase the power of unelected bureaucrats.

    And I say this as an unelected bureaucrat. I see it every day. Every single day. Too many public servants are on a mission. Disinterest are not us.
    How did CS Lewis put it?
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”


    cat52FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 11 of 15
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    davgreg said:
    maestro64 said:
    It is open season on Businesses, and it is only going to get worse. 

    It does not seem to be “open season” on business. Business is less regulated than at any time in the last 40 years.

    The trend to deregulation began in the mid-1970’s with trucking and aviation under President Carter in the US. That trend continued through the Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama administrations. Under Trump it has seen activist appointees rewriting definitions of terms and the implementation of existing rules.

    In tandem with a general trend to less regulation is a trend for soft touch regulation that allows for self reporting instead of inspection and very minimal fines. The anti-trust oversight and enforcement at the Federal level has become a lapdog rather than a watchdog.

    Europe has to some extent followed the US in less regulation and oversight, but is much more proactive in consumer protection than in the US. That is their system and Apple will have a choice to make- deal with it or not offer services in the market that offend local laws.
    My point was, they are after all the money companies are now making. Listen to the Democrats.

    Besides that, you do know Obama put in place over 10,000 new regulations that various companies have to comply with. The Trump administration is trying to undo some of this with the rule of remove 2 for any new ones being created. Also the EU has far more restrictive rules than the US. Try shipping a US product into the EU there are a whole sets of rules which only apply to the EU. Here is a simple one if you ship something into the EU which can not be 100% recyclable, it is the responsibility of the company who imported it to recover it when it is no longer in use and return it to its COO, the US has not such requirement.
    cat52
  • Reply 12 of 15
    entropys said:
    maestro64 said:
    It is open season on Businesses, and it is only going to get worse. 

    Politician do not care since they live off he back of everyone else who works to earn a living. Even when everyone else does not make enough for to pay for them they just spend money they do not have. I feel bad for the generation coming up since they will be the ones who will pay in many ways for this war on business. What I find interesting is all these people who claim companies are bad do not seem to realize who is paying them to live the way they live. Without big business who current employ over 50% of the US Population and probably similar in the EU these people will be without a job and if they have a job is will not pay as well as working for the big business.

    I personally just need another 10 years, then liquidate the investments and live how I want an not worry about what these idiots what to do to themselves. They can fine the shit out of all these companies and make sure they steal all the billionaires money. Then when they complain they can not afford their Starbucks coffee or avocado toast i will just laugh at them and remind them they got what they wanted, government controlled everything.

    BTW, It looks like Apple is rethinking all of this, they are holding back from expanding into India especially on things like Apple pay and Apple Credit card since India is looking to go the China path which all data for India must be stored on servers owns by an India company and that data must be accessible by the government of India for AI development, to so call help the people of India, yeah that will work out well.
    It’s like the lessons of the 20th century and the role of government aren’t taught. Too big and powerful a government, especially those where it entwines itself into the operation of the means of production, and it all ends badly. Every Single Time.  The idiots think it will turn out differently with them in charge of course.

    As for your investments, good luck with that: politicians will just change the rules to take your clearly ill gotten gains, because the government will decide it needs them more. Politicians exempt of course.
    I was talking about not have the gains in the market anymore, sit in cash and live off my cash. If the government is successful at taxing the hell out of company, no one will want to invest in something that does not generate returns, The investments will decline in value thus worth less if this happens. The only place you will have left to put your money is government bonds and get a small interest payment. But that may go away, Germany now has bond with negative returns meaning you end up paying the government to borrow your money. Think about that.
    cat52
  • Reply 13 of 15
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,263member
    maestro64 said:
    entropys said:
    maestro64 said:
    It is open season on Businesses, and it is only going to get worse. 

    Politician do not care since they live off he back of everyone else who works to earn a living. Even when everyone else does not make enough for to pay for them they just spend money they do not have. I feel bad for the generation coming up since they will be the ones who will pay in many ways for this war on business. What I find interesting is all these people who claim companies are bad do not seem to realize who is paying them to live the way they live. Without big business who current employ over 50% of the US Population and probably similar in the EU these people will be without a job and if they have a job is will not pay as well as working for the big business.

    I personally just need another 10 years, then liquidate the investments and live how I want an not worry about what these idiots what to do to themselves. They can fine the shit out of all these companies and make sure they steal all the billionaires money. Then when they complain they can not afford their Starbucks coffee or avocado toast i will just laugh at them and remind them they got what they wanted, government controlled everything.

    BTW, It looks like Apple is rethinking all of this, they are holding back from expanding into India especially on things like Apple pay and Apple Credit card since India is looking to go the China path which all data for India must be stored on servers owns by an India company and that data must be accessible by the government of India for AI development, to so call help the people of India, yeah that will work out well.
    It’s like the lessons of the 20th century and the role of government aren’t taught. Too big and powerful a government, especially those where it entwines itself into the operation of the means of production, and it all ends badly. Every Single Time.  The idiots think it will turn out differently with them in charge of course.

    As for your investments, good luck with that: politicians will just change the rules to take your clearly ill gotten gains, because the government will decide it needs them more. Politicians exempt of course.
    I was talking about not have the gains in the market anymore, sit in cash and live off my cash. If the government is successful at taxing the hell out of company, no one will want to invest in something that does not generate returns, The investments will decline in value thus worth less if this happens. The only place you will have left to put your money is government bonds and get a small interest payment. But that may go away, Germany now has bond with negative returns meaning you end up paying the government to borrow your money. Think about that.
    Negative interest rate make sense to Keynesian economists in Bureaucracies and the asset holding class. Everyone else gets poorer. 
    cat52
  • Reply 14 of 15
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,263member
    Besides that, you do know Obama put in place over 10,000 new regulations that various companies have to comply with. The Trump administration is trying to undo some of this with the rule of remove 2 for any new ones being created.
    Firstly Once trump is gone all that will be reversed. It’s all executive order. The bureaucracies will reassert themselves, and it will be as if this aberration had never happened.
    Also the EU has far more restrictive rules than the US. Try shipping a US product into the EU there are a whole sets of rules which only apply to the EU. Here is a simple one if you ship something into the EU which can not be 100% recyclable, it is the responsibility of the company who imported it to recover it when it is no longer in use and return it to its COO, the US has not such requirement.
    This is the risk of activist regulation as per the CS Lewis quote above. On its own it seems a worthy measure. It’s effect though is a barrier to entry, so that only companies with deep pockets and scale can comply. Like Apple.
    A start up though would find it all too expensive to enter the EU, particularly if you consider the endless other regulations that would also apply, each individually written for no doubt worthy causes but with no consideration of the cumulative cost of compliance.


    cat52
  • Reply 15 of 15
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    entropys said:
    Besides that, you do know Obama put in place over 10,000 new regulations that various companies have to comply with. The Trump administration is trying to undo some of this with the rule of remove 2 for any new ones being created.
    Firstly Once trump is gone all that will be reversed. It’s all executive order. The bureaucracies will reassert themselves, and it will be as if this aberration had never happened.
    Also the EU has far more restrictive rules than the US. Try shipping a US product into the EU there are a whole sets of rules which only apply to the EU. Here is a simple one if you ship something into the EU which can not be 100% recyclable, it is the responsibility of the company who imported it to recover it when it is no longer in use and return it to its COO, the US has not such requirement.
    This is the risk of activist regulation as per the CS Lewis quote above. On its own it seems a worthy measure. It’s effect though is a barrier to entry, so that only companies with deep pockets and scale can comply. Like Apple.
    A start up though would find it all too expensive to enter the EU, particularly if you consider the endless other regulations that would also apply, each individually written for no doubt worthy causes but with no consideration of the cumulative cost of compliance.


    I agree with your points, yes once the Trump aberration (I like you word choice) is gone, it will all revert back and it could be even worse than is if the aberration never happen.

    You are definitely correct about startups trying to break into the EU and other markets, it becomes too costly for them this is by design. The only solution is to partner with a larger company and get swallowed up by them or trying going it alone and hope you do not make a mistake and be taking out by the regulations.

    If anyone thinks this is a joke. I worked for telecom company and we tried entering the Australian market because one of our global customers had operations in Australia and want our product there. We spend 10's or thousand going through the approval process. When we finally submitted for the country approvals we were told only an Australian citizen/company could apply, Their name need to be on the application. We convince a local distributor to be our agent for the application. Well it took 6 month since he had to put all his asset in a trust, since the application held the applicant fully responsible for any violations of Australian laws and regulation related to the product. As such that meant the government could fine the person on the application and take their assets to pay the fine. We ended up paying all this guys legal fees and paying him a huge commission to take on the responsibility, needless to say we loss money on this transaction just to keep a customer happy.
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