Upcoming 5G 'iPhone 12' expected to support 'true' mmWave 5G

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited June 2020
Ming-Chi Kuo has released a note to investors suggesting that the 2020 5G "iPhone 12" will support the entire 5G spectrum, including mmWave, despite what other analysts have said.

Qualcomm's 5G NR mmWave module and antenna, with penny for scale.
Qualcomm's 5G NR mmWave module and antenna, with penny for scale.


Ming-Chi Kuo's previous reports had claimed that all four phones would support 5G, but did not go on to specify what type. His latest note goes on to explain that all four models will now support mmWave 5G.
"We believe that Apple will release new iPhones that support mmWave and Sub-6GHz iPhones at the same time in 2H20.

Because 5G iPhones are divided into Sub-6GHz and Sub-6GHz + mmWave models, the complexity of new product development is higher, which is also beneficial to Fuzhikang Group of NRE.

According to our latest survey, the development of the Sub-6GHz + mmWave iPhone is progressing as scheduled, and it is expected to ship at the end of 3Q20 or early 4Q20."
JP Morgan and a few others have claimed that only two of the four 5G iPhone 12 models would support mmWave 5G in an earlier note to investors. They had suggested that the devices would be paired off with two offering higher-tier "Pro" style specifications, while the others would have lesser features.

According to JP Morgan, all four will be "driving potential acceleration in replacement cycles." The four will also be offered in the same year as an anticipated release of the second-generation iPhone SE, which is expected to ship with a 4.7-inch LCD display in the first half of 2020.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 20
    FatmanFatman Posts: 513member
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    cincymac
  • Reply 2 of 20
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 - the year of 5G in the USA.
  • Reply 3 of 20
    tjwolftjwolf Posts: 396member
    The alternative suggested JP Morgan and others didn't make a lot of sense anyway.  When, in the past, has Apple *ever* split a product line by the level of standard technology it supported?   Sure, there have been cases where some phones were faster than others, but that was because of supplier constraints (e.g. Qualcomm modem vs. Intel) - and even then, Apple didn't make the more capable phone a separate model.  Heck, if I remember, it actively slowed down the faster version to make everyone's experience similar.

    Apple makes separate models by having separate features.  It doesn't make separate models by giving one phone an inferior version of the same feature (5G in this case).
  • Reply 4 of 20
    netmagenetmage Posts: 314member
    tjwolf said:
    Apple makes separate models by having separate features.  It doesn't make separate models by giving one phone an inferior version of the same feature (5G in this case).
    IBIS says Hi!
  • Reply 5 of 20
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,251member
    cincymac said:
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 - the year of 5G in the USA.
    Actually, probably not. Verizon just announced that they were slowing/scaling back plans for rolling out 5G. T Mo recently announced ‘nation wide’ 5G, but from the articles I’ve read, the implementation and features currently make it ‘virtually indistinguishable’ from 4G. 

    Again, 5G is so mired in confusion that no one knows anything. Consumers are being pushed to believe ‘it’s the next great thing’ but all they know is it will be really fast. Except the mm wave aspects will be extremely limited and likely never be truly widespread. I suspect what’s going to happen is the cell phone manufacturers will be forced by public expectation to include chips and antennae allowing features unusable by the vast majority of people and which add cost and potentially compromise battery life of the devices.
  • Reply 6 of 20
    neilmneilm Posts: 899member
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 will be the year of the early adopters, with all that entails, both good and bad.
    But 2021-22 will probably be the better years to upgrade.
    StrangeDaysllama
  • Reply 7 of 20
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,542member
    In your face to those critique who kept shouting Apple is late to 5G and Apple will be doomed. But it seems Apple is at the beginning of real 5G availability.
    From 5G support point of view, iPhone in 2020 and 2021 or 2022 will be the same. Difference could be Apple made 5G chip or Apple integrating 5G on SOC. As far as Carrier network coverage, you adopt based on where you live, 5G availability and or your need for iPhone upgrade.
    tmay
  • Reply 8 of 20
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,379member
    neilm said:
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 will be the year of the early adopters, with all that entails, both good and bad.
    But 2021-22 will probably be the better years to upgrade.
    Shhhh... think of AAPL, don't use common sense!  I want the great unwashed believing it will change their lives and buy buy buy.
    JaiOh81
  • Reply 9 of 20
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,260member
    MplsP said:
    cincymac said:
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 - the year of 5G in the USA.
    Actually, probably not. Verizon just announced that they were slowing/scaling back plans for rolling out 5G. T Mo recently announced ‘nation wide’ 5G, but from the articles I’ve read, the implementation and features currently make it ‘virtually indistinguishable’ from 4G. 

    Again, 5G is so mired in confusion that no one knows anything. Consumers are being pushed to believe ‘it’s the next great thing’ but all they know is it will be really fast. Except the mm wave aspects will be extremely limited and likely never be truly widespread. I suspect what’s going to happen is the cell phone manufacturers will be forced by public expectation to include chips and antennae allowing features unusable by the vast majority of people and which add cost and potentially compromise battery life of the devices.
    Actually, except for those who buy a new phone every year, all a consumer has to know is: 
    1)  5G is the next thing.
    2)  Will the phone I buy today be able to handle 5G over the life the phone.  The analogy would be buying a 3G phone after LTE began rolling out (except back then phones typically had  a 2 year lifecycle where today it is more than double that.


    avon b7
  • Reply 10 of 20
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,042member
    MplsP said:
    cincymac said:
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 - the year of 5G in the USA.
    Actually, probably not...

    Again, 5G is so mired in confusion that no one knows anything. 

    neilm said:
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 will be the year of the early adopters, with all that entails, both good and bad.
    But 2021-22 will probably be the better years to upgrade.
    This. All this. I don't see Apple selling a 5G phone in 2020, despite Kuo's outstanding record of predictions :D . Apple has sold product with features that were yet to become standards, but I don't think they'll do that with 5G - but we'll see.
    MplsP
  • Reply 11 of 20
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,565member
    MplsP said:
    cincymac said:
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 - the year of 5G in the USA.
    Actually, probably not. Verizon just announced that they were slowing/scaling back plans for rolling out 5G. T Mo recently announced ‘nation wide’ 5G, but from the articles I’ve read, the implementation and features currently make it ‘virtually indistinguishable’ from 4G. 

    Again, 5G is so mired in confusion that no one knows anything. Consumers are being pushed to believe ‘it’s the next great thing’ but all they know is it will be really fast. Except the mm wave aspects will be extremely limited and likely never be truly widespread. I suspect what’s going to happen is the cell phone manufacturers will be forced by public expectation to include chips and antennae allowing features unusable by the vast majority of people and which add cost and potentially compromise battery life of the devices.
    Actually, except for those who buy a new phone every year, all a consumer has to know is: 
    1)  5G is the next thing.
    2)  Will the phone I buy today be able to handle 5G over the life the phone.  The analogy would be buying a 3G phone after LTE began rolling out (except back then phones typically had  a 2 year lifecycle where today it is more than double that.
    It's not quite the same. Back then, 3G notably sucked, even when it was the current radio, so it was never a good option. But today, LTE as the lower-end radio, is pretty fast, faster than many public wifi networks and faster than the internet some have at home. LTE is good enough for most common use cases -- Web, email, text, social media..  I'm sure way into the future we'll have much grander expectations of bandwidth and use cases to match, but that time isn't now. 

    The new use cases requiring 5G will have to arrive before we start caring. 
    MplsP
  • Reply 12 of 20
    bigmikebigmike Posts: 262member
    This pertains to 5G, so if anyone is interested:

    Thousands of studies link low-level wireless radio frequency radiation exposures to a long list of adverse biological effects, including:

    DNA single and double strand breaks oxidative damage disruption of cell metabolism increased blood brain barrier permeability melatonin reduction disruption to brain glucose metabolism generation of stress proteins

    in 2011 the World Health Organization (WHO) classified radio frequency radiation as a possible 2B carcinogen.

    More recently the $25 million National Toxicology Program concluded that radio frequency radiation of the type currently used by cell phones can cause cancer.

    #1 – A DENSER SOUP OF ELECTROSMOG We’re going to be bombarded by really high frequencies at low, short-range intensities creating a yet more complicated denser soup of electrosmog

    #2 – EFFECTS ON THE SKIN The effects of millimeter waves as studied by Dr. Yael Stein of Hebrew University is said to also cause humans physical pain as our nociceptors flare up in recognition of the wave as a damaging stimuli. So we’re looking at possibilities of many skin diseases and cancer as well as physical pain to our skin.

    #3 – EFFECTS ON THE EYES A 1994 study found that low level millimeter microwave radiation produced lens opacity in rats, which is linked to the production of cataracts. A 2003 Chinese study has also found damage to the lens epithelial cells of rabbits after 8 hours of exposure to microwave radiation and a 2009 study conducted by the College of Physicians and Surgeons in Pakistan conclude that EMFs emitted by a mobile phone cause derangement of chicken embryo retinal differentiation.

    #4 – EFFECTS ON THE HEART A 1992 Russian study found that frequencies in the range 53-78GHz (that which 5G proposes to use) impacted the heart rate variability (an indicator of stress) in rats. Another Russian study on frogs who’s skin was exposed to MMWs found heart rate changes (arrhythmias).

    #5 – IMMUNE SYSTEM EFFECTS A 2002 Russian study examined the effects of 42HGz microwave radiation exposure on the blood of healthy mice. It was concluded that “the whole-body exposure of healthy mice to low-intensity EHF EMR has a profound effect on the indices of nonspecific immunity”.

    #6 – EFFECTS ON CELL GROWTH RATES A 2016 Armenian study observed MMWs at low intensity, mirroring the future environment brought about by 5G. Their study conducted on E-coli and other bacteria stated that the waves had depressed their growth as well as “changing properties and activity” of the cells. The concern is that it would do the same to human cells.

    #7 – EFFECTS ON BACTERIA RESISTANCE The very same Armenian study also suggested that MMWs effects are mainly on water, cell plasma membrane and genome too. They had found that MMW’s interaction with bacteria altered their sensitivity to “different biologically active chemicals, including antibiotics.” More specifically, the combination of MMW and antibiotics showed that it may be leading to antibiotic resistance in bacteria. This groundbreaking finding could have a magnum effect on the health of human beings as the bandwidth is rolled out nationwide. The concern is that we develop a lower resistance to bacteria as our cells become more vulnerable – and we become more vulnerable.

    #8 – EFFECTS ON PLANT HEALTH One of the features of 5G is that the MMW is particularly susceptible to being absorbed by plants and rain. Humans and animals alike consume plants as a food source. The effects MMW has on plants could leave us with food that’s not safe to consume.

    #9 – EFFECTS ON THE ATMOSPHERE AND DEPLETION OF FOSSIL FUELS Implementation of the 5G global wireless network requires the launching of rockets to deploy satellites for 5G. These satellites have a short lifespan which would require a lot more deployment than what we’re currently seeing. A new type of hydrocarbon rocket engine expected to power a fleet of suborbital rockets would emit black carbon which “could cause potentially significant changes in the global atmospheric circulation and distributions of ozone and temperature” according to a 2010 Californian study. Solid state rocket exhaust contains chlorine which also destroys the ozone.

    The effects on the ozone are thought to be worse than current day CFC exposure.

    Google’s Project Loon is said to bring Internet to rural and hard-to-access areas by using helium balloons. But these balloons only have a 10-month lifespan. We’re looking at a lot of helium being used here, more than what we can possibly have on Earth?

    #10 – DISRUPTION OF THE NATURAL ECOSYSTEM Since the year 2000, there have been reports of birds abandoning their nests as well as health issues like “plumage deterioration, locomotion problems, reduced survivorship and death,” says researcher Alfonso Balmori. Bird species that are affected by these low levels, non-ionizing microwave radiation are the House Sparrows, Rock Doves, White Storks, Collared Doves and Magpies, among others.

    But it’s not just the birds. The declining bee population is also said to be linked to this non-ionizing EMF radiation. It reduces the egg-laying abilities of the queen leading to a decline in colony strength.

    A study conducted by Chennai’s Loyola College in 2012 concluded that out of 919 research studies carried out on birds, plants, bees and other animals and humans, 593 of them showed impacts from RF-EMF radiations. 5G will be adding to the effects of this electrosmog.

    #11 – MOST 5G STUDIES MISLEADING 5G will use pulsed millimeter waves to carry information. But as Dr. Joel Moskowitz points out, most 5G studies are misleading because they do not pulse the waves. This is important because research on microwaves already tells us how pulsed waves have more profound biological effects on our body compared to non-pulsed waves. Previous studies, for instance, show how pulse rates of the frequencies led to gene toxicity and DNA strand breaks.

    WHAT EXPERTS ARE SAYING “Along with the 5G there is another thing coming – Internet of Things. If you look at it combined the radiation level is going to increase tremendously and yet the industry is very excited about it…. they project 5G/IoT business to be a $7 trillion business.” -Prof. Girish Kumar, Professor at Electrical Engineering Department at IIT Bombay

    “The new 5G wireless technology involves millimeter waves (extremely high frequencies) producing photons of much greater energy than even 4G and WiFi. Allowing this technology to be used without proving its safety is reckless in the extreme, as the millimeter waves are known to have a profound effect on all parts of the human body.” -Prof. Trevor Marshall, Director Autoimmunity Research Foundation, California

    “The plans to beam highly penetrative 5G milliwave radiation at us from space must surely be one of the greatest follies ever conceived of by mankind. There will be nowhere safe to live.” -Olga Sheean former WHO employee and author of ‘No Safe Place’

    “It would irradiate everyone, including the most vulnerable to harm from radiofrequency radiation: pregnant women, unborn children, young children, teenagers, men of reproductive age, the elderly, the disabled, and the chronically ill.” —Ronald Powell, PhD, Letter to FCC on 5G expansion

    How To Protect Yourself From 5G 1. Understand your exposures. Understand the different types of EMFs and how they behave – hence the need to read (and share) articles like this one. 2. Measure – use an EMF meter to obtain readings and identify hotspots. 3. Mitigate your exposure. Which means either eliminate the source, move further away from the source of radiation or shield your body.

    There is a concern that current EMF meters are not able to measure the frequencies of MMWs. On this point, researcher Alasdair Philips from Powerwatch states “current RF meters cover the frequency ranges proposed for most 5G use in the next three years”.
    nick710
  • Reply 13 of 20
    bluefire1bluefire1 Posts: 1,155member
    Just get the damn phone in my hands!
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 14 of 20
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,251member
    MplsP said:
    cincymac said:
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 - the year of 5G in the USA.
    Actually, probably not. Verizon just announced that they were slowing/scaling back plans for rolling out 5G. T Mo recently announced ‘nation wide’ 5G, but from the articles I’ve read, the implementation and features currently make it ‘virtually indistinguishable’ from 4G. 

    Again, 5G is so mired in confusion that no one knows anything. Consumers are being pushed to believe ‘it’s the next great thing’ but all they know is it will be really fast. Except the mm wave aspects will be extremely limited and likely never be truly widespread. I suspect what’s going to happen is the cell phone manufacturers will be forced by public expectation to include chips and antennae allowing features unusable by the vast majority of people and which add cost and potentially compromise battery life of the devices.
    Actually, except for those who buy a new phone every year, all a consumer has to know is: 
    1)  5G is the next thing.
    2)  Will the phone I buy today be able to handle 5G over the life the phone.  The analogy would be buying a 3G phone after LTE began rolling out (except back then phones typically had  a 2 year lifecycle where today it is more than double that.
    It's not quite the same. Back then, 3G notably sucked, even when it was the current radio, so it was never a good option. But today, LTE as the lower-end radio, is pretty fast, faster than many public wifi networks and faster than the internet some have at home. LTE is good enough for most common use cases -- Web, email, text, social media..  I'm sure way into the future we'll have much grander expectations of bandwidth and use cases to match, but that time isn't now. 

    The new use cases requiring 5G will have to arrive before we start caring. 
    I think the mobile carriers are kinda stuck on this one - in the past there's been a lot of consumer demand to help pay for system upgrades. 5G requires even more infrastructure than 4G/LTE did but there's little to no practical use for it right now and virtually all of the uses are not necessarily with smart phones. So now they're stuck upgrading their networks and trying to drum up consumer demand to support the upgrades. 
  • Reply 15 of 20
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,260member
    MplsP said:
    cincymac said:
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 - the year of 5G in the USA.
    Actually, probably not. Verizon just announced that they were slowing/scaling back plans for rolling out 5G. T Mo recently announced ‘nation wide’ 5G, but from the articles I’ve read, the implementation and features currently make it ‘virtually indistinguishable’ from 4G. 

    Again, 5G is so mired in confusion that no one knows anything. Consumers are being pushed to believe ‘it’s the next great thing’ but all they know is it will be really fast. Except the mm wave aspects will be extremely limited and likely never be truly widespread. I suspect what’s going to happen is the cell phone manufacturers will be forced by public expectation to include chips and antennae allowing features unusable by the vast majority of people and which add cost and potentially compromise battery life of the devices.
    Actually, except for those who buy a new phone every year, all a consumer has to know is: 
    1)  5G is the next thing.
    2)  Will the phone I buy today be able to handle 5G over the life the phone.  The analogy would be buying a 3G phone after LTE began rolling out (except back then phones typically had  a 2 year lifecycle where today it is more than double that.
    It's not quite the same. Back then, 3G notably sucked, even when it was the current radio, so it was never a good option. But today, LTE as the lower-end radio, is pretty fast, faster than many public wifi networks and faster than the internet some have at home. LTE is good enough for most common use cases -- Web, email, text, social media..  I'm sure way into the future we'll have much grander expectations of bandwidth and use cases to match, but that time isn't now. 

    The new use cases requiring 5G will have to arrive before we start caring. 

    Yes, LTE is good enough for most common use cases -- just as 3G was when it was introduced.   But then a strange thing happened:  The common use cases grew as a result of the increased capability.   But no one should have been surprised since that's the history of computing since its earliest days (long before personal computers much less mobile).

    And, you will care about those new use cases when they arrive if you recently bought a phone limited to 4G.  Phones have more than doubled their previous lifespan.  It's no longer 2 years & out for most people & families.
    edited January 2020
  • Reply 16 of 20
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,260member
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    cincymac said:
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 - the year of 5G in the USA.
    Actually, probably not. Verizon just announced that they were slowing/scaling back plans for rolling out 5G. T Mo recently announced ‘nation wide’ 5G, but from the articles I’ve read, the implementation and features currently make it ‘virtually indistinguishable’ from 4G. 

    Again, 5G is so mired in confusion that no one knows anything. Consumers are being pushed to believe ‘it’s the next great thing’ but all they know is it will be really fast. Except the mm wave aspects will be extremely limited and likely never be truly widespread. I suspect what’s going to happen is the cell phone manufacturers will be forced by public expectation to include chips and antennae allowing features unusable by the vast majority of people and which add cost and potentially compromise battery life of the devices.
    Actually, except for those who buy a new phone every year, all a consumer has to know is: 
    1)  5G is the next thing.
    2)  Will the phone I buy today be able to handle 5G over the life the phone.  The analogy would be buying a 3G phone after LTE began rolling out (except back then phones typically had  a 2 year lifecycle where today it is more than double that.
    It's not quite the same. Back then, 3G notably sucked, even when it was the current radio, so it was never a good option. But today, LTE as the lower-end radio, is pretty fast, faster than many public wifi networks and faster than the internet some have at home. LTE is good enough for most common use cases -- Web, email, text, social media..  I'm sure way into the future we'll have much grander expectations of bandwidth and use cases to match, but that time isn't now. 

    The new use cases requiring 5G will have to arrive before we start caring. 
    I think the mobile carriers are kinda stuck on this one - in the past there's been a lot of consumer demand to help pay for system upgrades. 5G requires even more infrastructure than 4G/LTE did but there's little to no practical use for it right now and virtually all of the uses are not necessarily with smart phones. So now they're stuck upgrading their networks and trying to drum up consumer demand to support the upgrades. 

    That only stopping things here in the U.S.  The rest of the world is charging forward -- China for instance is well along in the process of rolling it out nationwide.
  • Reply 17 of 20
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,291member
    “It would irradiate everyone, including the most vulnerable to harm from radiofrequency radiation: pregnant women, unborn children, young children, teenagers, men of reproductive age, the elderly, the disabled, and the chronically ill.” —Ronald Powell, PhD, Letter to FCC on 5G expansion
    Sounds like X-Men movie.
  • Reply 18 of 20
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,251member
    MplsP said:
    cincymac said:
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 - the year of 5G in the USA.
    Actually, probably not. Verizon just announced that they were slowing/scaling back plans for rolling out 5G. T Mo recently announced ‘nation wide’ 5G, but from the articles I’ve read, the implementation and features currently make it ‘virtually indistinguishable’ from 4G. 

    Again, 5G is so mired in confusion that no one knows anything. Consumers are being pushed to believe ‘it’s the next great thing’ but all they know is it will be really fast. Except the mm wave aspects will be extremely limited and likely never be truly widespread. I suspect what’s going to happen is the cell phone manufacturers will be forced by public expectation to include chips and antennae allowing features unusable by the vast majority of people and which add cost and potentially compromise battery life of the devices.
    Actually, except for those who buy a new phone every year, all a consumer has to know is: 
    1)  5G is the next thing.
    2)  Will the phone I buy today be able to handle 5G over the life the phone.  The analogy would be buying a 3G phone after LTE began rolling out (except back then phones typically had  a 2 year lifecycle where today it is more than double that.
    It's not quite the same. Back then, 3G notably sucked, even when it was the current radio, so it was never a good option. But today, LTE as the lower-end radio, is pretty fast, faster than many public wifi networks and faster than the internet some have at home. LTE is good enough for most common use cases -- Web, email, text, social media..  I'm sure way into the future we'll have much grander expectations of bandwidth and use cases to match, but that time isn't now. 

    The new use cases requiring 5G will have to arrive before we start caring. 

    Yes, LTE is good enough for most common use cases -- just as 3G was when it was introduced.   But then a strange thing happened:  The common use cases grew as a result of the increased capability.   But no one should have been surprised since that's the history of computing since its earliest days (long before personal computers much less mobile).

    And, you will care about those new use cases when they arrive if you recently bought a phone limited to 4G.  Phones have more than doubled their previous lifespan.  It's no longer 2 years & out for most people & families.
    Again your perception of reality is skewed. 3G was barely adequate for web surfing, so unlike 5G, there were already uses and demand for 4G speeds when it was introduced. We didn't have to wait for some mysterious 'future use' that no one has even conceptualized. (Even completely irrational 5G advocates like GeorgeB can't come up with any smartphone uses beyond 'future uses that haven't been conceived yet.') There is no need for 5G right now. There is not even any conceptualized need for 5G on smart phones, unless you count bragging about a speed test when you happen to be within 100 feet of a transmitter in one of the handful of cities that have mm wave available. 

    As anyone with a good knowledge of 5G can tell you, 5G is not about speed and is ultimately not a mobile phone technology. It's about allowing other uses beyond mobile phones. As such, I will happily wait for it to arrive and these magical uses to materialize. Until then, the early adopters can shell out extra money for an useless feature.
  • Reply 19 of 20
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,260member
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    cincymac said:
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 - the year of 5G in the USA.
    Actually, probably not. Verizon just announced that they were slowing/scaling back plans for rolling out 5G. T Mo recently announced ‘nation wide’ 5G, but from the articles I’ve read, the implementation and features currently make it ‘virtually indistinguishable’ from 4G. 

    Again, 5G is so mired in confusion that no one knows anything. Consumers are being pushed to believe ‘it’s the next great thing’ but all they know is it will be really fast. Except the mm wave aspects will be extremely limited and likely never be truly widespread. I suspect what’s going to happen is the cell phone manufacturers will be forced by public expectation to include chips and antennae allowing features unusable by the vast majority of people and which add cost and potentially compromise battery life of the devices.
    Actually, except for those who buy a new phone every year, all a consumer has to know is: 
    1)  5G is the next thing.
    2)  Will the phone I buy today be able to handle 5G over the life the phone.  The analogy would be buying a 3G phone after LTE began rolling out (except back then phones typically had  a 2 year lifecycle where today it is more than double that.
    It's not quite the same. Back then, 3G notably sucked, even when it was the current radio, so it was never a good option. But today, LTE as the lower-end radio, is pretty fast, faster than many public wifi networks and faster than the internet some have at home. LTE is good enough for most common use cases -- Web, email, text, social media..  I'm sure way into the future we'll have much grander expectations of bandwidth and use cases to match, but that time isn't now. 

    The new use cases requiring 5G will have to arrive before we start caring. 

    Yes, LTE is good enough for most common use cases -- just as 3G was when it was introduced.   But then a strange thing happened:  The common use cases grew as a result of the increased capability.   But no one should have been surprised since that's the history of computing since its earliest days (long before personal computers much less mobile).

    And, you will care about those new use cases when they arrive if you recently bought a phone limited to 4G.  Phones have more than doubled their previous lifespan.  It's no longer 2 years & out for most people & families.
    Again your perception of reality is skewed. 3G was barely adequate for web surfing, so unlike 5G, there were already uses and demand for 4G speeds when it was introduced. We didn't have to wait for some mysterious 'future use' that no one has even conceptualized. (Even completely irrational 5G advocates like GeorgeB can't come up with any smartphone uses beyond 'future uses that haven't been conceived yet.') There is no need for 5G right now. There is not even any conceptualized need for 5G on smart phones, unless you count bragging about a speed test when you happen to be within 100 feet of a transmitter in one of the handful of cities that have mm wave available. 

    As anyone with a good knowledge of 5G can tell you, 5G is not about speed and is ultimately not a mobile phone technology. It's about allowing other uses beyond mobile phones. As such, I will happily wait for it to arrive and these magical uses to materialize. Until then, the early adopters can shell out extra money for an useless feature.

    LOL....
    Thanks for making my point!   When LTE came out, the vast majority of cell phone users used their cell phones as (surprise!) cell phones rather than computers!   LTE changed that and enabled the smart phone to transition from a cell phone to a computer.

    And, I don't know who the "everyone" is that you're talking to (I figure it must be a Donald Trump "everyone") -- but carriers in almost every developed country are going all out to roll out 5G.  They are the experts and they are investing billions into it -- basically they are betting their companies on it.  I'll go with them.
  • Reply 20 of 20
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,251member
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    cincymac said:
    Fatman said:
    2020 - the year to upgrade
    2020 - the year of 5G in the USA.
    Actually, probably not. Verizon just announced that they were slowing/scaling back plans for rolling out 5G. T Mo recently announced ‘nation wide’ 5G, but from the articles I’ve read, the implementation and features currently make it ‘virtually indistinguishable’ from 4G. 

    Again, 5G is so mired in confusion that no one knows anything. Consumers are being pushed to believe ‘it’s the next great thing’ but all they know is it will be really fast. Except the mm wave aspects will be extremely limited and likely never be truly widespread. I suspect what’s going to happen is the cell phone manufacturers will be forced by public expectation to include chips and antennae allowing features unusable by the vast majority of people and which add cost and potentially compromise battery life of the devices.
    Actually, except for those who buy a new phone every year, all a consumer has to know is: 
    1)  5G is the next thing.
    2)  Will the phone I buy today be able to handle 5G over the life the phone.  The analogy would be buying a 3G phone after LTE began rolling out (except back then phones typically had  a 2 year lifecycle where today it is more than double that.
    It's not quite the same. Back then, 3G notably sucked, even when it was the current radio, so it was never a good option. But today, LTE as the lower-end radio, is pretty fast, faster than many public wifi networks and faster than the internet some have at home. LTE is good enough for most common use cases -- Web, email, text, social media..  I'm sure way into the future we'll have much grander expectations of bandwidth and use cases to match, but that time isn't now. 

    The new use cases requiring 5G will have to arrive before we start caring. 

    Yes, LTE is good enough for most common use cases -- just as 3G was when it was introduced.   But then a strange thing happened:  The common use cases grew as a result of the increased capability.   But no one should have been surprised since that's the history of computing since its earliest days (long before personal computers much less mobile).

    And, you will care about those new use cases when they arrive if you recently bought a phone limited to 4G.  Phones have more than doubled their previous lifespan.  It's no longer 2 years & out for most people & families.
    Again your perception of reality is skewed. 3G was barely adequate for web surfing, so unlike 5G, there were already uses and demand for 4G speeds when it was introduced. We didn't have to wait for some mysterious 'future use' that no one has even conceptualized. (Even completely irrational 5G advocates like GeorgeB can't come up with any smartphone uses beyond 'future uses that haven't been conceived yet.') There is no need for 5G right now. There is not even any conceptualized need for 5G on smart phones, unless you count bragging about a speed test when you happen to be within 100 feet of a transmitter in one of the handful of cities that have mm wave available. 

    As anyone with a good knowledge of 5G can tell you, 5G is not about speed and is ultimately not a mobile phone technology. It's about allowing other uses beyond mobile phones. As such, I will happily wait for it to arrive and these magical uses to materialize. Until then, the early adopters can shell out extra money for an useless feature.

    LOL....
    Thanks for making my point!   When LTE came out, the vast majority of cell phone users used their cell phones as (surprise!) cell phones rather than computers!   LTE changed that and enabled the smart phone to transition from a cell phone to a computer.

    And, I don't know who the "everyone" is that you're talking to (I figure it must be a Donald Trump "everyone") -- but carriers in almost every developed country are going all out to roll out 5G.  They are the experts and they are investing billions into it -- basically they are betting their companies on it.  I'll go with them.
    You really need to take a reading comprehension course....
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