Future HomePods could feature touch-sensitive fabric for more controls

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in General Discussion edited November 2020
Instead of the HomePod solely being controllable by taps on the top touch area, Apple is working on touch-sensitive fabric to allow users to control the speaker anywhere.

Apple's current HomePod plus (right) detail from the patent regarding how controls could be added to the fabric covering
Apple's current HomePod plus (right) detail from the patent regarding how controls could be added to the fabric covering


Apple's current HomePod is most often controlled via Siri, but it comes with a touch-sensitive display that allows for basic play/pause, and volume controls. A new patent suggests that this will be added to, or conceivably replaced, by touch controls built into the fabric sides of the speaker.

"Fabric-Covered Electronic Device with Touch Sensor," US Patent No 20200073511, details how it could be possible to register a user's touch on any device that includes fabric. Potentially this could even be used for products such as a smart battery cover for an iPhone.

The patent attempts to include every possible application of touch-embodied fabrics, ranging from "a laptop computer," and "a wristwatch device," to "a pendant... [or] a device embebdded in eyeglasses," and so on. However, the specifics of the patent continually refer to audio speakers.

"Electronic devices such as audio devices may include fabric," explains Apple's patent application. "As an example, the housing of a speaker may be covered with a layer of fabric. Openings may be provided in the fabric to allow sound to be emitted from within the device."

However, the patent is about more than how many holes there must be in the fabric to allow sound to be played. It's also about usability.

"It may be challenging to enhance the functionality of a speaker," continues the patent. "For example, it may be difficult to integrate input and output devices into a speaker with a fabric layer. If care is not taken, the user may find it cumbersome to provide input to and receive output from the speaker."

The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

Apple's system could utilize "conductive strands in the layer of fabric," or have a touch-sensitive substrate underneath the fabric. In either method, audio playback controls may be shown on the side of the speaker either though areas lit from within, or from markings on the fabric.

One possible new speaker covering is this
One possible new speaker covering is this "Warp-knit fabric"


"Light-emitting components and/or fabric with different visual characteristics may be used to mark where the touch-sensitive regions of the fabric are located," says the patent. "The touch-sensitive regions may be shaped as media control symbols."

The patent is credited to five inventors, namely Zhengyu Li, Elvis M. Kibiti, Ming Gao, Qiliang Xu, and Chen Zhang.

Zhang was recently named on a patent regarding touchscreen MacBooks, while Xu is credited as an inventor on a patent for haptic feedback on the Apple Pencil.

Stay on top of all Apple news right from your HomePod or HomePod mini. Say, "Hey, Siri, play AppleInsider Daily," and you'll get a fast update direct from the AppleInsider team.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 34
    Future HPs should include more robust i/o for a wider reach imo.  BT playback and 3.5mm aux jack should be a minimum.  

    This makes no sense to me:
    The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

    More convenient how? If you're close enough to reach the side, aren't you close enough to reach the top?  It's not like the HP is a dimensional behemoth.  It's a small device that can be held in one hand.  If the HP is on a high shelf, you're still reaching just as high to touch the side.  At that point wouldn't a Siri command make more sense?  Control center command from iPhone or iPad?

    Haptic fabric would seem a kinda meh addition to the HP

    n2itivguyelijahggatorguyrazorpitdarkvader
     5Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 2 of 34
    seanjseanj Posts: 324member
    I’m guessing this is more a UX flourish, stroke the HP fabric upwards to increase the volume, downloads to lower. Right and left for next previous track/station.
    Instead of having to hit a button the entire surface becomes a 3 dimensional touchpad.
    BeatsStrangeDayswatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 3 of 34
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,387member
    Future HPs should include more robust i/o for a wider reach imo.  BT playback and 3.5mm aux jack should be a minimum.  

    This makes no sense to me:
    The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

    More convenient how? If you're close enough to reach the side, aren't you close enough to reach the top?  It's not like the HP is a dimensional behemoth.  It's a small device that can be held in one hand.  If the HP is on a high shelf, you're still reaching just as high to touch the side.  At that point wouldn't a Siri command make more sense?  Control center command from iPhone or iPad?

    Haptic fabric would seem a kinda meh addition to the HP

    It needs a 3.5mm jack, eh? Why stop there? Why not a FireWire port and an Ethernet port? Maybe some 8-ohm speaker connectors so you can strap ‘em onto your 1973 Marantz amplifier? Yes, while everyone else zigs toward wireless smart speaker functionality, Apple could zag HomePod into a wired utopia and seize the retro market while no one’s paying attention!
    BeatsStrangeDaysmike1watto_cobra
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 4 of 34
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,888member
    There's a lot more they need to add to the HP before touch fabric controls become a necessity. Also the fabric would get real grubby wherever the buttons were. I have a HP on a chest of drawers and its light is too high to be seen when sat down, it needs another indicator perhaps halfway down that can be seen from any height. The requirement to look at the light though is a side effect of never really being sure what device is going to answer to "Hey Siri". Sometimes it's my phone, sometimes it's my watch, sometimes it's the HomePod, sometimes it's someone else's phone. Sometimes it's two of those. All of this would be sorted if they changed the activation keyword to "hey iPhone" or "hey HomePod." I assume they don't because presumably they think you should have some kind of rapport with Siri, but since I usually get more reliable results speaking to my cats than I do Siri, I'm not sure it would make much impact to that.
    edited March 2020
    razorpitdewme
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  • Reply 5 of 34
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,888member

    AppleZulu said:
    Future HPs should include more robust i/o for a wider reach imo.  BT playback and 3.5mm aux jack should be a minimum.  

    This makes no sense to me:
    The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

    More convenient how? If you're close enough to reach the side, aren't you close enough to reach the top?  It's not like the HP is a dimensional behemoth.  It's a small device that can be held in one hand.  If the HP is on a high shelf, you're still reaching just as high to touch the side.  At that point wouldn't a Siri command make more sense?  Control center command from iPhone or iPad?

    Haptic fabric would seem a kinda meh addition to the HP

    It needs a 3.5mm jack, eh? Why stop there? Why not a FireWire port and an Ethernet port? Maybe some 8-ohm speaker connectors so you can strap ‘em onto your 1973 Marantz amplifier? Yes, while everyone else zigs toward wireless smart speaker functionality, Apple could zag HomePod into a wired utopia and seize the retro market while no one’s paying attention!
    There's a difference between choosing something that is immensely popular with zero delay, and throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it. Airplay is too unreliable and laggy to use the HP with any video output. No problem with a 1/8" jack.
    gatorguyhodarrazorpit
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 6 of 34
    Beatsbeats Posts: 3,073member
    Future HPs should include more robust i/o for a wider reach imo.  BT playback and 3.5mm aux jack should be a minimum.  

    This makes no sense to me:
    The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

    More convenient how? If you're close enough to reach the side, aren't you close enough to reach the top?  It's not like the HP is a dimensional behemoth.  It's a small device that can be held in one hand.  If the HP is on a high shelf, you're still reaching just as high to touch the side.  At that point wouldn't a Siri command make more sense?  Control center command from iPhone or iPad?

    Haptic fabric would seem a kinda meh addition to the HP


    It never makes sense until you see it.

    I personally would love this innovation and HomePod needs some updating with a cheaper version!
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 7 of 34
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,171member
    Future HPs should include more robust i/o for a wider reach imo.  BT playback and 3.5mm aux jack should be a minimum.  

    This makes no sense to me:
    The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

    More convenient how? If you're close enough to reach the side, aren't you close enough to reach the top?  It's not like the HP is a dimensional behemoth.  It's a small device that can be held in one hand.  If the HP is on a high shelf, you're still reaching just as high to touch the side.  At that point wouldn't a Siri command make more sense?  Control center command from iPhone or iPad?

    Haptic fabric would seem a kinda meh addition to the HP
    Using your example, if the HP is on a high shelf, swiping up on the fabric for volume up is definitely easier than needing to be higher than the entire speaker, and have line of sight in order to view the small touch surface at the top and find the tap target for volume up. 
    Beatswatto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 8 of 34
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,171member

    elijahg said:
    There's a lot more they need to add to the HP before touch fabric controls become a necessity. Also the fabric would get real grubby wherever the buttons were. I have a HP on a chest of drawers and its light is too high to be seen when sat down, it needs another indicator perhaps halfway down that can be seen from any height. The requirement to look at the light though is a side effect of never really being sure what device is going to answer to "Hey Siri". Sometimes it's my phone, sometimes it's my watch, sometimes it's the HomePod, sometime it's someone else's phone. Sometimes it's two of those. All of this would be sorted if they changed the activation keyword to "hey iPhone" or "hey HomePod." I assume they don't because presumably they think you should have some kind of rapport with Siri, but since I usually get more reliable results speaking to my cats than I do Siri, I'm not sure it would make much impact to that.
    I’ve never attempted to look at the light when issuing siri commands. I just give them and let the devices sort it out, as they’re designed to do via their peer communication that was described some time ago. As I recall HP has rank over iOS devices if nearby. 
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 9 of 34
    AppleZulu said:
    Future HPs should include more robust i/o for a wider reach imo.  BT playback and 3.5mm aux jack should be a minimum.  

    This makes no sense to me:
    The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

    More convenient how? If you're close enough to reach the side, aren't you close enough to reach the top?  It's not like the HP is a dimensional behemoth.  It's a small device that can be held in one hand.  If the HP is on a high shelf, you're still reaching just as high to touch the side.  At that point wouldn't a Siri command make more sense?  Control center command from iPhone or iPad?

    Haptic fabric would seem a kinda meh addition to the HP

    It needs a 3.5mm jack, eh? Why stop there? Why not a FireWire port and an Ethernet port? Maybe some 8-ohm speaker connectors so you can strap ‘em onto your 1973 Marantz amplifier? Yes, while everyone else zigs toward wireless smart speaker functionality, Apple could zag HomePod into a wired utopia and seize the retro market while no one’s paying attention!
    The current HP is an ecosystem locked device.  I'm sure it made sense to Apple at the time.  Probably thought it would help drive Apple Music sales, who knows.  There's no denying even minimal i/o like a 3.5mm jack and/or BT playback would have increased the reach and sales of the HP.  Pretty much all wireless smart speakers have BT playback capability and/or a 3.5mm jack because they want to be as accessible to as many people as possible.  

    I'd be willing to bet if there's another HP speaker it will not be "garden restricted".  
    elijahg
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 10 of 34
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,171member

    elijahg said:

    AppleZulu said:
    Future HPs should include more robust i/o for a wider reach imo.  BT playback and 3.5mm aux jack should be a minimum.  

    This makes no sense to me:
    The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

    More convenient how? If you're close enough to reach the side, aren't you close enough to reach the top?  It's not like the HP is a dimensional behemoth.  It's a small device that can be held in one hand.  If the HP is on a high shelf, you're still reaching just as high to touch the side.  At that point wouldn't a Siri command make more sense?  Control center command from iPhone or iPad?

    Haptic fabric would seem a kinda meh addition to the HP

    It needs a 3.5mm jack, eh? Why stop there? Why not a FireWire port and an Ethernet port? Maybe some 8-ohm speaker connectors so you can strap ‘em onto your 1973 Marantz amplifier? Yes, while everyone else zigs toward wireless smart speaker functionality, Apple could zag HomePod into a wired utopia and seize the retro market while no one’s paying attention!
    There's a difference between choosing something that is immensely popular with zero delay, and throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it. Airplay is too unreliable and laggy to use the HP with any video output. No problem with a 1/8" jack.
    Nonsense. We use dual HPs for video stream audio output every day. That’s our primary use case. There is no lag. This is done via ATV native apps as well as iOS device beaming to the ATV. 

    The only issue I run into is with the very poor YouTube app, ported from some other platform, which breaks ATV platform conventions, and also fails to use the HPs unless I manually select them first. All other apps work as expected. 
    edited March 2020
    Beatswatto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 11 of 34
    AppleZulu said:
    Future HPs should include more robust i/o for a wider reach imo.  BT playback and 3.5mm aux jack should be a minimum.  

    This makes no sense to me:
    The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

    More convenient how? If you're close enough to reach the side, aren't you close enough to reach the top?  It's not like the HP is a dimensional behemoth.  It's a small device that can be held in one hand.  If the HP is on a high shelf, you're still reaching just as high to touch the side.  At that point wouldn't a Siri command make more sense?  Control center command from iPhone or iPad?

    Haptic fabric would seem a kinda meh addition to the HP

    It needs a 3.5mm jack, eh? Why stop there? Why not a FireWire port and an Ethernet port? Maybe some 8-ohm speaker connectors so you can strap ‘em onto your 1973 Marantz amplifier? Yes, while everyone else zigs toward wireless smart speaker functionality, Apple could zag HomePod into a wired utopia and seize the retro market while no one’s paying attention!
    Can we say "straw man"?
    CloudTalkinrazorpit
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 12 of 34
    Future HPs should include more robust i/o for a wider reach imo.  BT playback and 3.5mm aux jack should be a minimum.  

    This makes no sense to me:
    The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

    More convenient how? If you're close enough to reach the side, aren't you close enough to reach the top?  It's not like the HP is a dimensional behemoth.  It's a small device that can be held in one hand.  If the HP is on a high shelf, you're still reaching just as high to touch the side.  At that point wouldn't a Siri command make more sense?  Control center command from iPhone or iPad?

    Haptic fabric would seem a kinda meh addition to the HP
    Using your example, if the HP is on a high shelf, swiping up on the fabric for volume up is definitely easier than needing to be higher than the entire speaker, and have line of sight in order to view the small touch surface at the top and find the tap target for volume up. 
    If you have to reach for the speaker on a high shelf you still have to reach approximately the same distance to reach the fabric or the top.  It's literally a couple of inches difference.  At that point, it makes way more sense to either Siri the volume with your voice or Control Center the volume with a device.  Now Apple may come up with some novel use for the fabric, but the convenience quoted by the author isn't really that convenient, novel or useful imo.  
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 13 of 34
    hodarhodar Posts: 373member
    Before adding features that are likely to destroy the product (IE. no speaker is designed to be "touched", they are designed to be listened to), how about we handle the plethora of problems that plague the current HP?  For example, mine will play music - and I have no clue where it gets it's music from - it's nothing in my Library.  Mine is connected via Bluetooth to the AppleTV that sits a whopping 24" away.  Generally, it will stay connected for about 3-5 days, before it forgets that it's entire purpose in life is to be the "upgraded TV speaker" for my downstairs TV.

    At this single job - it only rates as mediocre.  Why?  Is it capable of being truly remarkable?  Absolutely.  Is it?  Not even close, it's a marginal improvement over my 2007 Panasonic Plasma TV speaker.  And "marginal improvement" is being kind.  There is a reason why EVERY Home Theater receiver on the market has multiple EQ settings for Music, Theater, Sports, Concert, Action Movie, Western Movie, etc.  Because there is no such thing as "One size fits all" when it comes to EQ settings.

    Apple understood this for the iPod, iPhone, Itouch and iPad - but this capability is missing on the HP.  Why?  As a single $200 TV speaker, vocals are often muddled and difficult to understand, music streamed through the iPhone sound great - but Netflix, HBO GO, AT&T Now, Prime TV, Hulu TV all sound muddled.  Why make a speaker that can connect wirelessly to the AppleTV, when the connection is unreliable, and the EQ can not be set to match the source material?  This is a half-baked idea.
    razorpit
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 14 of 34
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,387member
    AppleZulu said:
    Future HPs should include more robust i/o for a wider reach imo.  BT playback and 3.5mm aux jack should be a minimum.  

    This makes no sense to me:
    The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

    More convenient how? If you're close enough to reach the side, aren't you close enough to reach the top?  It's not like the HP is a dimensional behemoth.  It's a small device that can be held in one hand.  If the HP is on a high shelf, you're still reaching just as high to touch the side.  At that point wouldn't a Siri command make more sense?  Control center command from iPhone or iPad?

    Haptic fabric would seem a kinda meh addition to the HP

    It needs a 3.5mm jack, eh? Why stop there? Why not a FireWire port and an Ethernet port? Maybe some 8-ohm speaker connectors so you can strap ‘em onto your 1973 Marantz amplifier? Yes, while everyone else zigs toward wireless smart speaker functionality, Apple could zag HomePod into a wired utopia and seize the retro market while no one’s paying attention!
    Can we say "straw man"?
    You could, I suppose, but the correct answer is reductio ad absurdum.

    The HomePod is a device created to support Apple Music and the use of HomeKit devices. Having one or two or a few placed strategically in the home allows for greater use of their music service through a high-quality speaker, and it also makes it possible to consistently operate HomeKit light switches and whatnot, even when you've left your iPhone on the charger or in your purse. The HomePod was never intended to simply compete in the bluetooth speaker market, or the wired static speaker market, and Apple surely has little interest in entering that fray now.

    A consistent core philosophy at Apple is that, while they do create innovative devices that combine other functions into something where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts (see iPhone v. cellphone+PDA+GPS+iPod), they fastidiously do not create devices that are intended to be all things to all people (see MacOS devices that don't support swapping out internal hardware for third-party, nonstandard "cutting edge" bells and whistles). HomePod was never intended to serve as an audio output device for third-party sources, and that's very unlikely to change.

    A software update could likely enable bluetooth playback on all existing HomePods, yet that's still unavailable. Why? They're not interested. Adding holes into which you can stick wires connected to other devices? They're even less interested in that. Any expectation that Apple would add these things is silly. My examples of FireWire, ethernet, and speaker wire connectors are really only slightly more absurd, but offering them up helps make the point of the silliness of the original proposition. So, reductio ad absurdum, not so much straw man.  
    beowulfschmidtStrangeDaysmike1watto_cobra
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  • Reply 15 of 34
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,888member

    elijahg said:
    There's a lot more they need to add to the HP before touch fabric controls become a necessity. Also the fabric would get real grubby wherever the buttons were. I have a HP on a chest of drawers and its light is too high to be seen when sat down, it needs another indicator perhaps halfway down that can be seen from any height. The requirement to look at the light though is a side effect of never really being sure what device is going to answer to "Hey Siri". Sometimes it's my phone, sometimes it's my watch, sometimes it's the HomePod, sometime it's someone else's phone. Sometimes it's two of those. All of this would be sorted if they changed the activation keyword to "hey iPhone" or "hey HomePod." I assume they don't because presumably they think you should have some kind of rapport with Siri, but since I usually get more reliable results speaking to my cats than I do Siri, I'm not sure it would make much impact to that.
    I’ve never attempted to look at the light when issuing siri commands. I just give them and let the devices sort it out, as they’re designed to do via their peer communication that was described some time ago. As I recall HP has rank over iOS devices if nearby. 
    Yeah that's the idea, but apparently it doesn't work too well. It's all based on the Handoff protocol which has always been horribly unreliable for me at least. Holding phones near the top of the HomePod for handoff works about 60% of the time, though for one of my family's phones it never works despite HP and phone resets. I can be sat at my desk with my iPhone in my pocket or on the desk, and quite frequently the phone responds instead of the HP. It's really annoying.
    razorpit
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 16 of 34
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,888member


    elijahg said:

    AppleZulu said:
    Future HPs should include more robust i/o for a wider reach imo.  BT playback and 3.5mm aux jack should be a minimum.  

    This makes no sense to me:
    The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

    More convenient how? If you're close enough to reach the side, aren't you close enough to reach the top?  It's not like the HP is a dimensional behemoth.  It's a small device that can be held in one hand.  If the HP is on a high shelf, you're still reaching just as high to touch the side.  At that point wouldn't a Siri command make more sense?  Control center command from iPhone or iPad?

    Haptic fabric would seem a kinda meh addition to the HP

    It needs a 3.5mm jack, eh? Why stop there? Why not a FireWire port and an Ethernet port? Maybe some 8-ohm speaker connectors so you can strap ‘em onto your 1973 Marantz amplifier? Yes, while everyone else zigs toward wireless smart speaker functionality, Apple could zag HomePod into a wired utopia and seize the retro market while no one’s paying attention!
    There's a difference between choosing something that is immensely popular with zero delay, and throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it. Airplay is too unreliable and laggy to use the HP with any video output. No problem with a 1/8" jack.
    Nonsense. We use dual HPs for video stream audio output every day. That’s our primary use case. There is no lag. This is done via ATV native apps as well as iOS device beaming to the ATV. 

    The only issue I run into is with the very poor YouTube app, ported from some other platform, which breaks ATV platform conventions, and also fails to use the HPs unless I manually select them first. All other apps work as expected. 
    Yes because your experience with Apple gear - which oddly enough is absolutely flawless every time even if a problem is affecting every single other person - is indicative of everyone. It's not nonsense. It frequently lags behind the video by half a second or more. There are many people here and on Apple's own forums complaining of this. It's not the network either, I can ping the HP and there is <0.5ms delay.

    But I do agree that the YT app is utter garbage.
    razorpit
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 17 of 34
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,888member

    hodar said:
    Before adding features that are likely to destroy the product (IE. no speaker is designed to be "touched", they are designed to be listened to), how about we handle the plethora of problems that plague the current HP?  For example, mine will play music - and I have no clue where it gets it's music from - it's nothing in my Library.  Mine is connected via Bluetooth to the AppleTV that sits a whopping 24" away.  Generally, it will stay connected for about 3-5 days, before it forgets that it's entire purpose in life is to be the "upgraded TV speaker" for my downstairs TV.

    At this single job - it only rates as mediocre.  Why?  Is it capable of being truly remarkable?  Absolutely.  Is it?  Not even close, it's a marginal improvement over my 2007 Panasonic Plasma TV speaker.  And "marginal improvement" is being kind.  There is a reason why EVERY Home Theater receiver on the market has multiple EQ settings for Music, Theater, Sports, Concert, Action Movie, Western Movie, etc.  Because there is no such thing as "One size fits all" when it comes to EQ settings.

    Apple understood this for the iPod, iPhone, Itouch and iPad - but this capability is missing on the HP.  Why?  As a single $200 TV speaker, vocals are often muddled and difficult to understand, music streamed through the iPhone sound great - but Netflix, HBO GO, AT&T Now, Prime TV, Hulu TV all sound muddled.  Why make a speaker that can connect wirelessly to the AppleTV, when the connection is unreliable, and the EQ can not be set to match the source material?  This is a half-baked idea.
    It seems the HP has been largely forgotten about, which is a shame. With some things Apple is great at keeping long-term support, their routers for example and macOS. But they also do have a habit of introducing something with much fanfare and when it's not wildly popular, pretty much ignoring it until they can release new hardware to justify charging for new software features which apparently aren't supported on old hardware. Siri was like that; it saw basically no upgrades for several years after the 4s was released. When eventually the watch came along it became better, though it's still pretty terrible with no improvements to its intelligence for years. In fact it has got worse since they dropped Wolfram Alpha's "computational intelligence" integration. For example, you used to be able to ask Siri "how heavy is a Boeing 747?" and Wolfram Alpha would reply. Now it just gives you a list of results from a Google search (despite my Safari search settings being DuckDuckGo, but thats another matter). 

    AirPlay 2 is the same, it's pretty buggy and was delayed supposedly to support the HP, but longstanding bugs are still there and go ignored. Let's hope they don't release Airplay 3 requiring a HP2.
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  • Reply 18 of 34
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,171member
    AppleZulu said:
    Future HPs should include more robust i/o for a wider reach imo.  BT playback and 3.5mm aux jack should be a minimum.  

    This makes no sense to me:
    The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

    More convenient how? If you're close enough to reach the side, aren't you close enough to reach the top?  It's not like the HP is a dimensional behemoth.  It's a small device that can be held in one hand.  If the HP is on a high shelf, you're still reaching just as high to touch the side.  At that point wouldn't a Siri command make more sense?  Control center command from iPhone or iPad?

    Haptic fabric would seem a kinda meh addition to the HP

    It needs a 3.5mm jack, eh? Why stop there? Why not a FireWire port and an Ethernet port? Maybe some 8-ohm speaker connectors so you can strap ‘em onto your 1973 Marantz amplifier? Yes, while everyone else zigs toward wireless smart speaker functionality, Apple could zag HomePod into a wired utopia and seize the retro market while no one’s paying attention!
    The current HP is an ecosystem locked device.  I'm sure it made sense to Apple at the time.  Probably thought it would help drive Apple Music sales, who knows.  There's no denying even minimal i/o like a 3.5mm jack and/or BT playback would have increased the reach and sales of the HP.  Pretty much all wireless smart speakers have BT playback capability and/or a 3.5mm jack because they want to be as accessible to as many people as possible.  

    I'd be willing to bet if there's another HP speaker it will not be "garden restricted".  
    I doubt very much they designed the HP hardware in order to drive Apple Music sales. Rather, they designed it to what they believe is the best featureset for Apple customers. Eg, Airplay > Bluetooth. AP is higher bandwidth and sounds better, making use of the high-end speaker design. If I'm on my iPhone I don't need to BT audio to a HP, because it's already an available AirPlay end-point. Similarly with 3.5mm analog jack -- that just isn't the use case Apple is building, they prefer wireless. It's an Apple-ecosystem speaker, not a general home audio speaker.

    That's the part people seem to struggle with -- Apple builds for its ecosystem, not for general use cases. And that's perfectly OK. More than OK really, since it generally means they can optimize for the use cases they have in mind, rather than supporting all sorts of other devices and use cases. It's ecosystem tailored, not ecosystem locked. 

    I doubt very much that we'll see 3.5mm analog jacks on the next HP. 
    edited March 2020
    AppleZuluwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 19 of 34
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,387member
    hodar said:
    Before adding features that are likely to destroy the product (IE. no speaker is designed to be "touched", they are designed to be listened to), how about we handle the plethora of problems that plague the current HP?  For example, mine will play music - and I have no clue where it gets it's music from - it's nothing in my Library.  Mine is connected via Bluetooth to the AppleTV that sits a whopping 24" away.  Generally, it will stay connected for about 3-5 days, before it forgets that it's entire purpose in life is to be the "upgraded TV speaker" for my downstairs TV.

    At this single job - it only rates as mediocre.  Why?  Is it capable of being truly remarkable?  Absolutely.  Is it?  Not even close, it's a marginal improvement over my 2007 Panasonic Plasma TV speaker.  And "marginal improvement" is being kind.  There is a reason why EVERY Home Theater receiver on the market has multiple EQ settings for Music, Theater, Sports, Concert, Action Movie, Western Movie, etc.  Because there is no such thing as "One size fits all" when it comes to EQ settings.

    Apple understood this for the iPod, iPhone, Itouch and iPad - but this capability is missing on the HP.  Why?  As a single $200 TV speaker, vocals are often muddled and difficult to understand, music streamed through the iPhone sound great - but Netflix, HBO GO, AT&T Now, Prime TV, Hulu TV all sound muddled.  Why make a speaker that can connect wirelessly to the AppleTV, when the connection is unreliable, and the EQ can not be set to match the source material?  This is a half-baked idea.
    The HomePod connects to your Apple TV for the purpose of syncing with the speakers connected to your TV so that you can play Apple Music simultaneously in multiple rooms of the house. The HomePod is neither designed nor intended to serve as the speaker for your TV. It drops the link after a while because, when used for its intended purpose, it is desirable for it to eventually revert back to its default, which is being an independent speaker device. 

    I have a home theater system, with a surround-sound amplifier connected to the TV, powering wired surround speakers. There are some HomePods in other parts of the house. When watching Netflix on the AppleTV, I'm listening through the amp and surround speakers. It sounds great. Sometimes I want to play music in the whole house. I can play Apple Music through the amp and wired speakers in the TV room, and then use AirPlay to add on the HomePods elsewhere. The AppleTV has a tool in the settings for measuring any delay created by pumping sound through the TV room amp and speakers. Once that's set, Airplay syncs up those with the HomePods perfectly, resulting in outstanding whole-home audio. (I've always wanted that, but never wanted to go through the pain of installing the wiring for traditional satellite speakers.) It works great. It's also good that when I finish with the whole home audio experience and shut things down, the ATV will eventually revert to default and disconnect from the HomePods, even if I've forgotten to do it manually. This is desirable, because I probably don't need the sound from watching TV later to blast the whole house. 

    This is the intended purpose of HomePods connecting to your AppleTV. It's not for using a HP as your primary TV speaker. A corollary to this is the fact that the HomePod sets its own EQ based on active reading of the acoustics of the room it's in. It's an incredibly advanced feature that results in clear, balanced audio that fills a whole room with no dead spots, and they're not interested in users defeating that by manually screwing around with EQ. This is a fully-baked idea, when the device is used as intended.

    As noted in my previous post, Apple is not interested in producing devices that are all things to all people. You can be mad at them if you want for not making it easier for you to use a HomePod as your TV speaker, but that was never the intended use of the device. There are already other excellent devices available out there that are designed for that purpose, and you might be well served to choose one of those for your TV speaker. You could be mad at your car manufacturer because your car doesn't work very well as a power generator for your house, but that was never the intended use of your car. Get a dedicated TV speaker and move your HomePod to another room, and you'll probably find that things work much better for you. 
    edited March 2020
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 20 of 34
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,171member

    Future HPs should include more robust i/o for a wider reach imo.  BT playback and 3.5mm aux jack should be a minimum.  

    This makes no sense to me:
    The aim appears to be that a HomePod user will be able to touch any side of the speaker to perform at least basic volume control. This could be more convenient than having to reach the top of the speaker, for instance if the user has positioned the HomePod atop shelves.

    More convenient how? If you're close enough to reach the side, aren't you close enough to reach the top?  It's not like the HP is a dimensional behemoth.  It's a small device that can be held in one hand.  If the HP is on a high shelf, you're still reaching just as high to touch the side.  At that point wouldn't a Siri command make more sense?  Control center command from iPhone or iPad?

    Haptic fabric would seem a kinda meh addition to the HP
    Using your example, if the HP is on a high shelf, swiping up on the fabric for volume up is definitely easier than needing to be higher than the entire speaker, and have line of sight in order to view the small touch surface at the top and find the tap target for volume up. 
    If you have to reach for the speaker on a high shelf you still have to reach approximately the same distance to reach the fabric or the top.  It's literally a couple of inches difference.  At that point, it makes way more sense to either Siri the volume with your voice or Control Center the volume with a device.  Now Apple may come up with some novel use for the fabric, but the convenience quoted by the author isn't really that convenient, novel or useful imo.  
    No you don't. The current touch surface is at the top of the device, mandating your eyeballs are above the speaker, and that there is clearance above the HP for you to see and get your hand positioned to connect with the small tap targets. If you could swipe up/down on the fabric itself it saves you a foot or more. I can easily re-create this use case by placing the speaker on a nearby shelf at face-level -- reaching over to swipe its side up/down is stone simple. But to operate the touch controls on the top, I have to step up on a chair in order to get higher than the top of the HP. 

    Do you have one? If you did I think you'd understand why line-of-sight to the top of touch-device is less functional than adding the ability to use its sides for gestures. It's not even up for argument, it's just a fact.
    watto_cobra
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