Apple begins phasing out kernel extensions in macOS 10.15.4

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 33
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    rob53 said:
    lkrupp said:
    I have received that pop-up for my MalwareBytes installation. I remember using an app called Conflict Catcher long ago that was used to resolve third party extension conflicts on OS 9. More than a few developers think they know more than Apple about its operating system and ignore official APIs, make unapproved system modifications, etc. I for one am glad that Apple is trying to look out for me and my security and privacy.
    I got the same message after upgrading to macOS 10.15.4 but Malwarebytes had an update waiting for me so after updating, no pop-ups. It appears they've been able to adjust their code to handle Apple's new requirements.
    Of course the professional developers dedicated to the macOS platform are almost always at the ready when changes come. The problem comes with the developers who don’t have a care about what’s next. They respond weeks or months after the fact, leaving their customers twisting in the wind. Developers like the ones responsible for Windows ports, like The Print Shop (Mac Kiev) and others sometimes just shut the development down altogether or keep stalling. Another one is Audacity, reportedly a pretty good open source recording app, is still saying it is not compatible with Catalina. They say it’s 64 bit but Apple’s new security requirements for signing apps is apparently too difficult for them to handle. And so it goes.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 33
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,530member
    dysamoria said:
    As for the impending loss of support for kernel extensions... how much do you want to bet that, even with this early warning, most developers won’t have done shit about it on their products by the time the final OS comes out which actually bans kernel extensions?
    Developers who don’t move away from kernel extensions will be in exactly the same boat as those who didn’t update their apps to 64-bit. They’ll be faced with uncomfortable conversations with their customers about why they are stuck in the past. And they will blame Apple.

    Frankly, Apple deprecating and eventually prohibiting kernel extensions is exactly the right thing for Apple to do from a system stability and robustness standpoint. Apple cannot provide any guarantees about the reliability and availability of their operating system (macOS) if they relinquish any level of direct control or access to their kernel to third parties. By moving third party kernel extensions to system extensions Apple retains the ability to intervene if a third party extension intentionally or inadvertently does something that could compromise the system. 

    Allowing third party kernel extensions is like allowing an outsider direct access to the control room of your nuclear reactor to turn a specific valve. System extensions on the other hand require the outsider to stay on the outside of the control room and request that one of the authorized control room workers turn the specific valve for them. Even if the net effect is the same, the valve gets turned, there’s a big difference because the control room operator knows a lot more about potential system side effects that turning the valve has on the entire system. The control room worker will refuse to make any changes requested from the outside that compromise the integrity of the system. 

    This tightening of control is a necessary abstraction in the continuing maturation of macOS, especially in light of the security, privacy, availability, and autonomy expectations Apple has established for its future products. Apple will definitely not lose a minute of sleep if they piss off the hackintosh hobbyists. For makers of hardware and software products that extend the Mac system, Apple is providing a path forward using system extensions, but they’ll have to play by their rules, or sit pat on old versions of macOS.

    dysamoriaStrangeDaysGG1lkruppwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 33
    lam92103 said:
    Hackintosh is the only reason I am using a MacBook. 


    I don't understand. If you are using a MacBook, you already have macOS. What does Hackintosh have to do with it?
    Do you mean that you are using a WinPC with macOS and are referring to it as a MacBook because you have macOS on it?

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 33
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    crowley said:
    Wow, Apple really want people to stay on Mojave, huh?
    Nah, you're confusing yourself with normals. Normals don't even know what kernel extensions are, and are fine with that. 
    Then "normals" don't have to use them. Utterly user hostile behaviour from Apple here, taking away useful functionality. But maybe the next Mac will come with a LIDAR sensor, for the masses?
    elijahg
  • Reply 25 of 33
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Rayz2016 said:
    crowley said:
    Wow, Apple really want people to stay on Mojave, huh?
    Your choice. 🤷🏾‍♂️
    And I'm very glad I have that choice, though I wouldn't be at all surprised if Apple had a plan for compulsory updates as well.
    elijahg
  • Reply 26 of 33
    crowley said:
    Wow, Apple really want people to stay on Mojave, huh?

    Apple is slowly bringing iOS and macOS closer together. Step by step. No one can expect loosing iOS security only tightening macOS security. Just Apple is doing that slowly so people get slowly adapted to it. Their constant changes and new requirements on developers are quite unfriendly to freeware. I guess Apple is not big fan of free software. So many great apps that we had will no longer work because authors do not want to put that time to update them. On other side for good work should be good salary.
    elijahg
  • Reply 27 of 33
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    crowley said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    crowley said:
    Wow, Apple really want people to stay on Mojave, huh?
    Your choice. 🤷🏾‍♂️
    And I'm very glad I have that choice, though I wouldn't be at all surprised if Apple had a plan for compulsory updates as well.
    Then you still have a choice: move to Linux.

    No one is strong-arming you to stay on the Mac. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 33
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,530member
    frantisek said:
    crowley said:
    Wow, Apple really want people to stay on Mojave, huh?

    Apple is slowly bringing iOS and macOS closer together. Step by step. No one can expect loosing iOS security only tightening macOS security. Just Apple is doing that slowly so people get slowly adapted to it. Their constant changes and new requirements on developers are quite unfriendly to freeware. I guess Apple is not big fan of free software. So many great apps that we had will no longer work because authors do not want to put that time to update them. On other side for good work should be good salary.
    Disallowing kernel extensions for third party developers has nothing to do with freeware. Apple provides massive numbers of system APIs into their operating systems that allow third party developers to write software on top of. Apple doesn’t care if third party developers give away their software for free on iOS or macOS. This is all about Apple locking down direct access to the most important and critical core of their system. Apple will continue to provide ways for third parties to use the services provided in the core.

    Apple's operating systems represent at least hundreds of billions of dollars of equity in the future of their company and an exponentially greater stake in their customer's livelihoods. It’s not a science project and it’s not a hobby, it’s one of their Crown Jewels and they are treating it as such. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 33
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Rayz2016 said:
    crowley said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    crowley said:
    Wow, Apple really want people to stay on Mojave, huh?
    Your choice. 🤷🏾‍♂️
    And I'm very glad I have that choice, though I wouldn't be at all surprised if Apple had a plan for compulsory updates as well.
    Then you still have a choice: move to Linux.

    No one is strong-arming you to stay on the Mac. 
    No shit.  I may do so.  No one is strong arming me to prevent me stating my opinion either.  Why does my dissatisfaction perturb you so?
  • Reply 30 of 33
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    frantisek said:
    crowley said:
    Wow, Apple really want people to stay on Mojave, huh?

    Apple is slowly bringing iOS and macOS closer together. Step by step. No one can expect loosing iOS security only tightening macOS security. Just Apple is doing that slowly so people get slowly adapted to it. Their constant changes and new requirements on developers are quite unfriendly to freeware. I guess Apple is not big fan of free software. So many great apps that we had will no longer work because authors do not want to put that time to update them. On other side for good work should be good salary.
    If a freeware app developer’s product breaks with every change to the OS then I submit that developer is incompetent  and their product worthless. Funny how Firefox, Chrome, and other ‘free’ apps seem to be able to keep up. And if such a developer abandons their customers because they don’t  want ‘to put the time in to update them’ that doubles down on the worthlessness of their product. Good riddance to them. I can’t tell you how many people in the Apple Discussion Forums come in with issues caused by some free app or utility they downloaded. Yours is a straw man argument without merit. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 33
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,410member
    elijahg said:
    Too much more of this absurd locking down of everything with no way around for people that don't want or need this "security" that is actually a guise for control, and i'll be off to Linux or even Windblows.
    I like security so ... bye Felicia!
  • Reply 32 of 33
    pslicepslice Posts: 152member
    So, I installed this "Update"..... I always consider this stuff as a downgrade. It makes my life more difficult. So it left me with four or five windows warning me of these problems. Is that a method to figure out which ones after I quickly closed the warning notices? 
    elijahg
  • Reply 33 of 33
    I am trying to get rid of a legacy extension, after updating to Catalina. Is there a way to remove it before apple phases it out? 
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