The article contains a lot of very good information. But, at the risk of oversimplifying, some of the key points is makes are:
Their contact-tracing method would work by using a smartphone's
Bluetooth signals to determine to whom the owner had recently been in
proximity for long enough to have established contagion a risk. If one of those people later tested positive for the Covid-19 virus, a warning would be sent to the original handset owner. No GPS location data or personal information would be recorded.
Records of the digital IDs involved would be stored on remote
computer servers but the companies say these could not be used to unmask
a specific individual's true identity. Furthermore, the contact-matching process would take place on the phones rather than centrally. This would make it possible for someone to be told they should go into quarantine, without anyone else being notified.
Phase two of the initiative involves building contact-tracing
capabilities into the iOS and Android operating systems. Users could
then switch the capability on and off again without having to download
an app at all. Approved third-party apps would still be able to interact with the facility if desired.
The facility would be delivered via a future system software update. But the companies have yet to say when this would occur.
--------------------------------- On a practical, personal level, I am picturing myself getting a notification that sometime in the past three weeks I had contact with an infected person. So, now what do I do? Since testing is and will be restricted, what are my options? Should I ignore the warning? Or quarantine myself for 14 days? Both are poor choices.
Basically, nothing works until we open up testing facilities for wide spread testing. But currently U.S. resources have stretched as far as they can stretch and there are no plans on building additional ones -- actually we are defunding and tearing existing ones down. (and, antibody testing is worthless in controlling the virus -- it can't tell you if you ARE infected).
Also: the article does not spell out how the system learns that person has been infected. Is that voluntary on the person's part to report to the system that they are infectious?
Added: Reuters has elucidated how this might work: "People who test positive for the virus can opt to send an encrypted list
of phones they came near to Apple and Google, which will trigger alerts
to potentially exposed users to seek more information. Public health
authorities would need to sign off that an individual has tested
positive before they can send on the data. "
Unfortuantely they did not say how that "sign off" would work in practice. However, in most areas, a positive test triggers mandatory reporting by a clinician, do public health official will know if a person is infected.
That's great! But there is still a need to make some groups of people aware of the severity of the situation that the world is facing after COVID-19 pandemic so they help controlling the spread by quarantining themselves.
they just think this an old person problem.
True and perhaps they are ignoring the fact that they can be careers (at least) with no symptoms and such careers are making the old citizens' lives more in danger. A research in Germany says that 15% of the people are silent careers (herd immunity) with no apparent symptoms in them (not even cough or soar throat). So, we are left with one choice only i.e. social distancing. But social distancing for how long? This is a big question.
That's great! But there is still a need to make some groups of people aware of the severity of the situation that the world is facing after COVID-19 pandemic so they help controlling the spread by quarantining themselves.
they just think this an old person problem.
True and perhaps they are ignoring the fact that they can be careers (at least) with no symptoms and such careers are making the old citizens' lives more in danger. A research in Germany says that 15% of the people are silent careers (herd immunity) with no apparent symptoms in them (not even cough or soar throat). So, we are left with one choice only i.e. social distancing. But social distancing for how long? This is a big question.
Yes, here in the U.S. the choice is between social distancing or doing nothing and letting the virus run wild. That is because we never developed the resources to conduct adequate testing or contact tracing. So yeh, it's social distancing or Fiddling while Rome burns -- and neither is an acceptable long term choice.
That's great! But there is still a need to make some groups of people aware of the severity of the situation that the world is facing after COVID-19 pandemic so they help controlling the spread by quarantining themselves.
they just think this an old person problem.
True and perhaps they are ignoring the fact that they can be careers (at least) with no symptoms and such careers are making the old citizens' lives more in danger. A research in Germany says that 15% of the people are silent careers (herd immunity) with no apparent symptoms in them (not even cough or soar throat). So, we are left with one choice only i.e. social distancing. But social distancing for how long? This is a big question.
Yes, here in the U.S. the choice is between social distancing or doing nothing and letting the virus run wild. That is because we never developed the resources to conduct adequate testing or contact tracing. So yeh, it's social distancing or Fiddling while Rome burns -- and neither is an acceptable long term choice.
Preach it Brother. We are all most certainly doomed. ...Until we're not, then you'll have a new story to preach.
Amazingly the current administration handling of the pandemic hasn't negatively affected the Presidents approval rating. In fact it compares very favorably with every other recent US President AFAICT https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
That's great! But there is still a need to make some groups of people aware of the severity of the situation that the world is facing after COVID-19 pandemic so they help controlling the spread by quarantining themselves.
they just think this an old person problem.
True and perhaps they are ignoring the fact that they can be careers (at least) with no symptoms and such careers are making the old citizens' lives more in danger. A research in Germany says that 15% of the people are silent careers (herd immunity) with no apparent symptoms in them (not even cough or soar throat). So, we are left with one choice only i.e. social distancing. But social distancing for how long? This is a big question.
Yes, here in the U.S. the choice is between social distancing or doing nothing and letting the virus run wild. That is because we never developed the resources to conduct adequate testing or contact tracing. So yeh, it's social distancing or Fiddling while Rome burns -- and neither is an acceptable long term choice.
Preach it Brother. We are all most certainly doomed. ...Until we're not, then you'll have a new story to preach.
Amazingly the current administration handling of the pandemic hasn't negatively affected the Presidents approval rating. In fact it compares very favorably with every other recent US President AFAICT https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Thanks brother -- but I'll stick to facts and science -- which include the facts that we weren't prepared and still have not ramped testing or PPE for healthcare workers much less the U.S. population -- which is why we lead the world in infections.
As for Trump's approval rating: As he told us, "I could shoot somebody on 5th Ave in broad daylight" and the cult will approve They're just deluded fools.
That's great! But there is still a need to make some groups of people aware of the severity of the situation that the world is facing after COVID-19 pandemic so they help controlling the spread by quarantining themselves.
they just think this an old person problem.
True and perhaps they are ignoring the fact that they can be careers (at least) with no symptoms and such careers are making the old citizens' lives more in danger. A research in Germany says that 15% of the people are silent careers (herd immunity) with no apparent symptoms in them (not even cough or soar throat). So, we are left with one choice only i.e. social distancing. But social distancing for how long? This is a big question.
Yes, here in the U.S. the choice is between social distancing or doing nothing and letting the virus run wild. That is because we never developed the resources to conduct adequate testing or contact tracing. So yeh, it's social distancing or Fiddling while Rome burns -- and neither is an acceptable long term choice.
Preach it Brother. We are all most certainly doomed. ...Until we're not, then you'll have a new story to preach.
Amazingly the current administration handling of the pandemic hasn't negatively affected the Presidents approval rating. In fact it compares very favorably with every other recent US President AFAICT https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Thanks brother -- but I'll stick to facts and science -- which include the facts that we weren't prepared and still have not ramped testing or PPE for healthcare workers much less the U.S. population -- which is why we lead the world in infections.
As for Trump's approval rating: As he told us, "I could shoot somebody on 5th Ave in broad daylight" and the cult will approve They're just deluded fools.
No country or state or region has ever been prepared for a pandemic. True?
The answer as to why the US has such a high incidence? Because we were not willing (or truthfully able) to shut off the movement of people into or out of New York City. I know you've suggested we do as other countries may have had some success with. Do you believe we could have done as the Chinese did with Wuhan and completely isolated the city, closed it off using the military as enforcement? Some countries have not gone quite as far, S.Korea and Singapore for example, but still forcefully quarantined any infectious people and even those suspected of being carriers. In addition the people of those countries are more accepting of temporary aggressive responses after experiencing previous coronavirus pandemics in 2003 and 2015, with the latter S.Korea particularly unprepared for and the entire country shut down. How many years has it been since such an event happened on US shores? Our people have been of the opinion it won't happen here for as long as you can remember. This is likely a once in a lifetime event.
Here in the US we are far less tolerant of being subjected to police actions restricting our movements, and as you see here in the forums many will resist any efforts at being tracked as well, even if anonymously.
I suggest you would be one of the voices vociferously complaining had Congress and the President quickly passed legislation allowing for military enforcement of free movement of American people which would be required in order to be effective. Your anger then would be directed at the unconstitutional power grab by the administration, seizing policing powers he is not entitled to even if in order to slow the pandemic. That's the Politico magazine accusation lobbed at Florida Gov. DeSantis when he ordered the State's National Guard to monitor the compliance of New York flight arrivals with his 2-week quarantine order, and the stopping of New York and Louisiana-tagged vehicles entering the state. It was plainly unconstitutional and unenforceable as far as "the other side" was concerned. Big help huh?
Most us do not want to be told what to do, where we can go, or when. Many of us, perhaps you included, would reject military operations on US soil to enforce quarantines. We could not do as China has done, probably not as either S.Korea or Singapore either for that matter. Europe is much the same, freedom of movement and choice is a right not to be infringed upon and forced quarantines of cities would not pass muster with the people.
That's great! But there is still a need to make some groups of people aware of the severity of the situation that the world is facing after COVID-19 pandemic so they help controlling the spread by quarantining themselves.
they just think this an old person problem.
True and perhaps they are ignoring the fact that they can be careers (at least) with no symptoms and such careers are making the old citizens' lives more in danger. A research in Germany says that 15% of the people are silent careers (herd immunity) with no apparent symptoms in them (not even cough or soar throat). So, we are left with one choice only i.e. social distancing. But social distancing for how long? This is a big question.
Yes, here in the U.S. the choice is between social distancing or doing nothing and letting the virus run wild. That is because we never developed the resources to conduct adequate testing or contact tracing. So yeh, it's social distancing or Fiddling while Rome burns -- and neither is an acceptable long term choice.
Preach it Brother. We are all most certainly doomed. ...Until we're not, then you'll have a new story to preach.
Amazingly the current administration handling of the pandemic hasn't negatively affected the Presidents approval rating. In fact it compares very favorably with every other recent US President AFAICT https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
What ignorance. Nobody has ever said we’re doomed, this isn’t a species ending event. But what has been widely observed is the complete failure Trump’s “it will just go away, you’ll see” strategy the last couple months has been. The lack of tests, testing, contact tracing, etc, is well documented. Google some Fauci clips if you need help understanding. Testing was botched the moment the CDC refused to use the german-designed WHO test kits and hasn’t recovered. Test results are 7-14 days out here, making them useless.
We’re now up to over half a million infected and almost 20,000 dead. Our nurses are wearing trash bags and PPE is woefully missing, and our officials are saying “not my problem”, “we’re not a shipping clerk” and “you should have been nicer to me” when they should have gotten on producing more back in January, when the US intelligence reports were coming in to Trump and friends, but were ignored.
Every president gets an approval increase during crisis, it’s been observed and written about. Doesn’t somehow make the response any better.
That's great! But there is still a need to make some groups of people aware of the severity of the situation that the world is facing after COVID-19 pandemic so they help controlling the spread by quarantining themselves.
they just think this an old person problem.
True and perhaps they are ignoring the fact that they can be careers (at least) with no symptoms and such careers are making the old citizens' lives more in danger. A research in Germany says that 15% of the people are silent careers (herd immunity) with no apparent symptoms in them (not even cough or soar throat). So, we are left with one choice only i.e. social distancing. But social distancing for how long? This is a big question.
Yes, here in the U.S. the choice is between social distancing or doing nothing and letting the virus run wild. That is because we never developed the resources to conduct adequate testing or contact tracing. So yeh, it's social distancing or Fiddling while Rome burns -- and neither is an acceptable long term choice.
Preach it Brother. We are all most certainly doomed. ...Until we're not, then you'll have a new story to preach.
Amazingly the current administration handling of the pandemic hasn't negatively affected the Presidents approval rating. In fact it compares very favorably with every other recent US President AFAICT https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Thanks brother -- but I'll stick to facts and science -- which include the facts that we weren't prepared and still have not ramped testing or PPE for healthcare workers much less the U.S. population -- which is why we lead the world in infections.
As for Trump's approval rating: As he told us, "I could shoot somebody on 5th Ave in broad daylight" and the cult will approve They're just deluded fools.
No country or state or region has ever been prepared for a pandemic. True?
The answer as to why the US has such a high incidence? Because we were not willing (or truthfully able) to shut off the movement of people into or out of New York City. I know you've suggested we do as other countries may have had some success with. Do you believe we could have done as the Chinese did with Wuhan and completely isolated the city, closed it off using the military as enforcement? Some countries have not gone quite as far, S.Korea and Singapore for example, but still forcefully quarantined any infectious people and even those suspected of being carriers. In addition the people of those countries are more accepting of temporary aggressive responses after experiencing previous coronavirus pandemics in 2003 and 2015, with the latter S.Korea particularly unprepared for and the entire country shut down. How many years has it been since such an event happened on US shores? Our people have been of the opinion it won't happen here for as long as you can remember. This is likely a once in a lifetime event.
Here in the US we are far less tolerant of being subjected to police actions restricting our movements, and as you see here in the forums many will resist any efforts at being tracked as well, even if anonymously.
I suggest you would be one of the voices vociferously complaining had Congress and the President quickly passed legislation allowing for military enforcement of free movement of American people which would be required in order to be effective. Your anger then would be directed at the unconstitutional power grab by the administration, seizing policing powers he is not entitled to even if in order to slow the pandemic. That's the Politico magazine accusation lobbed at Florida Gov. DeSantis when he ordered the State's National Guard to monitor the compliance of New York flight arrivals with his 2-week quarantine order, and the stopping of New York and Louisiana-tagged vehicles entering the state. It was plainly unconstitutional and unenforceable as far as "the other side" was concerned. Big help huh?
Most us do not want to be told what to do, where we can go, or when. Many of us, perhaps you included, would reject military operations on US soil to enforce quarantines. We could not do as China has done, probably not as either S.Korea or Singapore either for that matter. Europe is much the same, freedom of movement and choice is a right not to be infringed upon and forced quarantines of cities would not pass muster with the people.
You ask: Has any country been prepared? Yes, S.Korea. They're first case happened the same day that ours did. And, they ramped up quickly before it got out of control.
And yes, like China they did some quarantining -- but much less so. They didn't need to because they, unlike the U.S., got off their duff and instituted mass testing with rigorous contact tracing and were able to isolate the infectious before they created an epidemic. And ultimately, as they learned more about the pathogen, China did the same: mass testing with contact tracing. So now China also has it under control too -- as do a number of other countries who also did the right things.
Conversely, we did nothing. While Korea was ramping up their testing, Trump and FauxNews told us it was no worse than the flu and all the uproar was just a Democratic hoax. Relax folks! Nothing to worry about. That is, they did until it started spreading like wildfire and then we jumped into action -- to protect the stock market! But, after almost 3 1/2 months (we knew about it in 2019) we STILL have not ramped up testing beyond the minimum and we have no contact tracing going on. In fact, we can't even get protective equipment and supplies to our healthcare system much less the populace! So, we have infectious people walking around infecting countless others. And the only thing we've done is huddle in fear beyond locked doors hoping it will all go away.
So, your narrative, like Trump's is a false one. There are ways to keep the virus under control. Other countries did so. We just sat there and watched.
But, that isn't the end of it: Trump wants to get the economy going again so people will vote for him in November. So, he is chomping at the bit to remove the only thing that we have done right -- social distancing and doing so with still no testing. In fact, he is even cancelling what little community testing we had going -- probably so he can say the infection rate is going down so he can justify "opening the country up again".
Testing and contact tracing is the key -- but Trump wants none of it. He just wants to open things up again so he can claim victory (no matter how many he kills) and get people to vote for him in Novermber. And, of course, the cult will.
That's great! But there is still a need to make some groups of people aware of the severity of the situation that the world is facing after COVID-19 pandemic so they help controlling the spread by quarantining themselves.
they just think this an old person problem.
True and perhaps they are ignoring the fact that they can be careers (at least) with no symptoms and such careers are making the old citizens' lives more in danger. A research in Germany says that 15% of the people are silent careers (herd immunity) with no apparent symptoms in them (not even cough or soar throat). So, we are left with one choice only i.e. social distancing. But social distancing for how long? This is a big question.
Yes, here in the U.S. the choice is between social distancing or doing nothing and letting the virus run wild. That is because we never developed the resources to conduct adequate testing or contact tracing. So yeh, it's social distancing or Fiddling while Rome burns -- and neither is an acceptable long term choice.
Preach it Brother. We are all most certainly doomed. ...Until we're not, then you'll have a new story to preach.
Amazingly the current administration handling of the pandemic hasn't negatively affected the Presidents approval rating. In fact it compares very favorably with every other recent US President AFAICT https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Thanks brother -- but I'll stick to facts and science -- which include the facts that we weren't prepared and still have not ramped testing or PPE for healthcare workers much less the U.S. population -- which is why we lead the world in infections.
As for Trump's approval rating: As he told us, "I could shoot somebody on 5th Ave in broad daylight" and the cult will approve They're just deluded fools.
No country or state or region has ever been prepared for a pandemic. True?
The answer as to why the US has such a high incidence? Because we were not willing (or truthfully able) to shut off the movement of people into or out of New York City. I know you've suggested we do as other countries may have had some success with. Do you believe we could have done as the Chinese did with Wuhan and completely isolated the city, closed it off using the military as enforcement? Some countries have not gone quite as far, S.Korea and Singapore for example, but still forcefully quarantined any infectious people and even those suspected of being carriers. In addition the people of those countries are more accepting of temporary aggressive responses after experiencing previous coronavirus pandemics in 2003 and 2015, with the latter S.Korea particularly unprepared for and the entire country shut down. How many years has it been since such an event happened on US shores? Our people have been of the opinion it won't happen here for as long as you can remember. This is likely a once in a lifetime event.
Here in the US we are far less tolerant of being subjected to police actions restricting our movements, and as you see here in the forums many will resist any efforts at being tracked as well, even if anonymously.
I suggest you would be one of the voices vociferously complaining had Congress and the President quickly passed legislation allowing for military enforcement of free movement of American people which would be required in order to be effective. Your anger then would be directed at the unconstitutional power grab by the administration, seizing policing powers he is not entitled to even if in order to slow the pandemic. That's the Politico magazine accusation lobbed at Florida Gov. DeSantis when he ordered the State's National Guard to monitor the compliance of New York flight arrivals with his 2-week quarantine order, and the stopping of New York and Louisiana-tagged vehicles entering the state. It was plainly unconstitutional and unenforceable as far as "the other side" was concerned. Big help huh?
Most us do not want to be told what to do, where we can go, or when. Many of us, perhaps you included, would reject military operations on US soil to enforce quarantines. We could not do as China has done, probably not as either S.Korea or Singapore either for that matter. Europe is much the same, freedom of movement and choice is a right not to be infringed upon and forced quarantines of cities would not pass muster with the people.
You ask: Has any country been prepared? Yes, S.Korea. They're first case happened the same day that ours did. And, they ramped up quickly before it got out of control.
And yes, like China they did some quarantining -- but much less so. They didn't need to because they, unlike the U.S., got off their duff and instituted mass testing with rigorous contact tracing and were able to isolate the infectious before they created an epidemic. And ultimately, as they learned more about the pathogen, China did the same: mass testing with contact tracing. So now China also has it under control too -- as do a number of other countries who also did the right things.
Conversely, we did nothing. While Korea was ramping up their testing, Trump and FauxNews told us it was no worse than the flu and all the uproar was just a Democratic hoax. Relax folks! Nothing to worry about. That is, they did until it started spreading like wildfire and then we jumped into action -- to protect the stock market! But, after almost 3 1/2 months (we knew about it in 2019) we STILL have not ramped up testing beyond the minimum and we have no contact tracing going on. In fact, we can't even get protective equipment and supplies to our healthcare system much less the populace! So, we have infectious people walking around infecting countless others. And the only thing we've done is huddle in fear beyond locked doors hoping it will all go away.
So, your narrative, like Trump's is a false one. There are ways to keep the virus under control. Other countries did so. We just sat there and watched.
But, that isn't the end of it: Trump wants to get the economy going again so people will vote for him in November. So, he is chomping at the bit to remove the only thing that we have done right -- social distancing and doing so with still no testing. In fact, he is even cancelling what little community testing we had going -- probably so he can say the infection rate is going down so he can justify "opening the country up again".
Testing and contact tracing is the key -- but Trump wants none of it. He just wants to open things up again so he can claim victory (no matter how many he kills) and get people to vote for him in Novermber. And, of course, the cult will.
FWIW COVID-18 is not yet under control in S.Korea with a recent resurgence taking place (Singapore too). In fact in their haste to get back to business they may have been lax on a rudimentary control: International travelers arriving from Europe bringing fresh infections as their baggage.
The S.Koreans also, as of today, instituted a new requirement because too many of their citizens are ignoring quarantine orders for various reasons. They're now mandating those scofflaws be fitted with monitoring bracelets, similar to how we keep track of those on house arrest.
...and yes I completely agree with you that S.Korea responded almost immediately, as well they would have been expected to. Afterall the pandemic scare they suffered from 5 years ago was still fresh in their minds, and that one they were NOT prepared for. The US has not had a similar scare until now. With the lessons we're learning we'll be more prepared if it happens again in the next 50 years, just as S.Korea is for this one. Fully prepared? Never. More prepared than we were for COVID-19? Hopefully.
That's great! But there is still a need to make some groups of people aware of the severity of the situation that the world is facing after COVID-19 pandemic so they help controlling the spread by quarantining themselves.
they just think this an old person problem.
True and perhaps they are ignoring the fact that they can be careers (at least) with no symptoms and such careers are making the old citizens' lives more in danger. A research in Germany says that 15% of the people are silent careers (herd immunity) with no apparent symptoms in them (not even cough or soar throat). So, we are left with one choice only i.e. social distancing. But social distancing for how long? This is a big question.
Yes, here in the U.S. the choice is between social distancing or doing nothing and letting the virus run wild. That is because we never developed the resources to conduct adequate testing or contact tracing. So yeh, it's social distancing or Fiddling while Rome burns -- and neither is an acceptable long term choice.
Preach it Brother. We are all most certainly doomed. ...Until we're not, then you'll have a new story to preach.
Amazingly the current administration handling of the pandemic hasn't negatively affected the Presidents approval rating. In fact it compares very favorably with every other recent US President AFAICT https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Thanks brother -- but I'll stick to facts and science -- which include the facts that we weren't prepared and still have not ramped testing or PPE for healthcare workers much less the U.S. population -- which is why we lead the world in infections.
As for Trump's approval rating: As he told us, "I could shoot somebody on 5th Ave in broad daylight" and the cult will approve They're just deluded fools.
No country or state or region has ever been prepared for a pandemic. True?
The answer as to why the US has such a high incidence? Because we were not willing (or truthfully able) to shut off the movement of people into or out of New York City. I know you've suggested we do as other countries may have had some success with. Do you believe we could have done as the Chinese did with Wuhan and completely isolated the city, closed it off using the military as enforcement? Some countries have not gone quite as far, S.Korea and Singapore for example, but still forcefully quarantined any infectious people and even those suspected of being carriers. In addition the people of those countries are more accepting of temporary aggressive responses after experiencing previous coronavirus pandemics in 2003 and 2015, with the latter S.Korea particularly unprepared for and the entire country shut down. How many years has it been since such an event happened on US shores? Our people have been of the opinion it won't happen here for as long as you can remember. This is likely a once in a lifetime event.
Here in the US we are far less tolerant of being subjected to police actions restricting our movements, and as you see here in the forums many will resist any efforts at being tracked as well, even if anonymously.
I suggest you would be one of the voices vociferously complaining had Congress and the President quickly passed legislation allowing for military enforcement of free movement of American people which would be required in order to be effective. Your anger then would be directed at the unconstitutional power grab by the administration, seizing policing powers he is not entitled to even if in order to slow the pandemic. That's the Politico magazine accusation lobbed at Florida Gov. DeSantis when he ordered the State's National Guard to monitor the compliance of New York flight arrivals with his 2-week quarantine order, and the stopping of New York and Louisiana-tagged vehicles entering the state. It was plainly unconstitutional and unenforceable as far as "the other side" was concerned. Big help huh?
Most us do not want to be told what to do, where we can go, or when. Many of us, perhaps you included, would reject military operations on US soil to enforce quarantines. We could not do as China has done, probably not as either S.Korea or Singapore either for that matter. Europe is much the same, freedom of movement and choice is a right not to be infringed upon and forced quarantines of cities would not pass muster with the people.
You ask: Has any country been prepared? Yes, S.Korea. They're first case happened the same day that ours did. And, they ramped up quickly before it got out of control.
And yes, like China they did some quarantining -- but much less so. They didn't need to because they, unlike the U.S., got off their duff and instituted mass testing with rigorous contact tracing and were able to isolate the infectious before they created an epidemic. And ultimately, as they learned more about the pathogen, China did the same: mass testing with contact tracing. So now China also has it under control too -- as do a number of other countries who also did the right things.
Conversely, we did nothing. While Korea was ramping up their testing, Trump and FauxNews told us it was no worse than the flu and all the uproar was just a Democratic hoax. Relax folks! Nothing to worry about. That is, they did until it started spreading like wildfire and then we jumped into action -- to protect the stock market! But, after almost 3 1/2 months (we knew about it in 2019) we STILL have not ramped up testing beyond the minimum and we have no contact tracing going on. In fact, we can't even get protective equipment and supplies to our healthcare system much less the populace! So, we have infectious people walking around infecting countless others. And the only thing we've done is huddle in fear beyond locked doors hoping it will all go away.
So, your narrative, like Trump's is a false one. There are ways to keep the virus under control. Other countries did so. We just sat there and watched.
But, that isn't the end of it: Trump wants to get the economy going again so people will vote for him in November. So, he is chomping at the bit to remove the only thing that we have done right -- social distancing and doing so with still no testing. In fact, he is even cancelling what little community testing we had going -- probably so he can say the infection rate is going down so he can justify "opening the country up again".
Testing and contact tracing is the key -- but Trump wants none of it. He just wants to open things up again so he can claim victory (no matter how many he kills) and get people to vote for him in Novermber. And, of course, the cult will.
FWIW COVID-18 is not yet under control in S.Korea with a recent resurgence taking place (Singapore too). In fact in their haste to get back to business they may have been lax on a rudimentary control: International travelers arriving from Europe bringing fresh infections as their baggage.
The S.Koreans also, as of today, instituted a new requirement because too many of their citizens are ignoring quarantine orders for various reasons. They're now mandating those scofflaws be fitted with monitoring bracelets, similar to how we keep track of those on house arrest.
...and yes I completely agree with you that S.Korea responded almost immediately, as well they would have been expected to. Afterall the pandemic scare they suffered from 5 years ago was still fresh in their minds, and that one they were NOT prepared for. The US has not had a similar scare until now. With the lessons we're learning we'll be more prepared if it happens again in the next 50 years, just as S.Korea is for this one. Fully prepared? Never. More prepared than we were for COVID-19? Hopefully.
But S.Korea DID contain it and, like China, is now facing a second wave as people enter their country from infected areas -- like the U.S. But they have solid, effective procedures firmly in place and there is every expectation that they will handle the second wave as well as they did the first.
And, Social Distancing is only meant to slow the virus down. It is not a long term strategy and it is not meant to end it completely. For that you need testing which is, as I said, what every successful country has done. We don't speak of it here because we can't do it: Early on we failed to accept the international tests in favor of a go-it-alone approach, then we not only failed to develop a working test but have since failed to develop testing resources and, at present, are maxed out and can't do the number of tests required. (But, note the common thread there: FAILED!)
But instead, we chose to follow the Italy model and have once again become #1 in world -- but this time in number of infections and number of deaths. But, your president, is now seeking to lift the only measures we have put into place: Social Distancing. Because, if he doesn't, unemployment goes up, the stock market goes down and he is more likely to spend time in the BigHouse than the WhiteHouse after November. He's scared -- not for the thousands of American suffering and dying from this disease due to his multiple FAILURES but for himself.
For myself, I am tired of being unnecessarily threatened by this disease. I want my country to start doing the right things to bring it under control and keep its people safe.
That's great! But there is still a need to make some groups of people aware of the severity of the situation that the world is facing after COVID-19 pandemic so they help controlling the spread by quarantining themselves.
they just think this an old person problem.
True and perhaps they are ignoring the fact that they can be careers (at least) with no symptoms and such careers are making the old citizens' lives more in danger. A research in Germany says that 15% of the people are silent careers (herd immunity) with no apparent symptoms in them (not even cough or soar throat). So, we are left with one choice only i.e. social distancing. But social distancing for how long? This is a big question.
Yes, here in the U.S. the choice is between social distancing or doing nothing and letting the virus run wild. That is because we never developed the resources to conduct adequate testing or contact tracing. So yeh, it's social distancing or Fiddling while Rome burns -- and neither is an acceptable long term choice.
Preach it Brother. We are all most certainly doomed. ...Until we're not, then you'll have a new story to preach.
Amazingly the current administration handling of the pandemic hasn't negatively affected the Presidents approval rating. In fact it compares very favorably with every other recent US President AFAICT https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Thanks brother -- but I'll stick to facts and science -- which include the facts that we weren't prepared and still have not ramped testing or PPE for healthcare workers much less the U.S. population -- which is why we lead the world in infections.
As for Trump's approval rating: As he told us, "I could shoot somebody on 5th Ave in broad daylight" and the cult will approve They're just deluded fools.
No country or state or region has ever been prepared for a pandemic. True?
The answer as to why the US has such a high incidence? Because we were not willing (or truthfully able) to shut off the movement of people into or out of New York City. I know you've suggested we do as other countries may have had some success with. Do you believe we could have done as the Chinese did with Wuhan and completely isolated the city, closed it off using the military as enforcement? Some countries have not gone quite as far, S.Korea and Singapore for example, but still forcefully quarantined any infectious people and even those suspected of being carriers. In addition the people of those countries are more accepting of temporary aggressive responses after experiencing previous coronavirus pandemics in 2003 and 2015, with the latter S.Korea particularly unprepared for and the entire country shut down. How many years has it been since such an event happened on US shores? Our people have been of the opinion it won't happen here for as long as you can remember. This is likely a once in a lifetime event.
Here in the US we are far less tolerant of being subjected to police actions restricting our movements, and as you see here in the forums many will resist any efforts at being tracked as well, even if anonymously.
I suggest you would be one of the voices vociferously complaining had Congress and the President quickly passed legislation allowing for military enforcement of free movement of American people which would be required in order to be effective. Your anger then would be directed at the unconstitutional power grab by the administration, seizing policing powers he is not entitled to even if in order to slow the pandemic. That's the Politico magazine accusation lobbed at Florida Gov. DeSantis when he ordered the State's National Guard to monitor the compliance of New York flight arrivals with his 2-week quarantine order, and the stopping of New York and Louisiana-tagged vehicles entering the state. It was plainly unconstitutional and unenforceable as far as "the other side" was concerned. Big help huh?
Most us do not want to be told what to do, where we can go, or when. Many of us, perhaps you included, would reject military operations on US soil to enforce quarantines. We could not do as China has done, probably not as either S.Korea or Singapore either for that matter. Europe is much the same, freedom of movement and choice is a right not to be infringed upon and forced quarantines of cities would not pass muster with the people.
You ask: Has any country been prepared? Yes, S.Korea. They're first case happened the same day that ours did. And, they ramped up quickly before it got out of control.
And yes, like China they did some quarantining -- but much less so. They didn't need to because they, unlike the U.S., got off their duff and instituted mass testing with rigorous contact tracing and were able to isolate the infectious before they created an epidemic. And ultimately, as they learned more about the pathogen, China did the same: mass testing with contact tracing. So now China also has it under control too -- as do a number of other countries who also did the right things.
Conversely, we did nothing. While Korea was ramping up their testing, Trump and FauxNews told us it was no worse than the flu and all the uproar was just a Democratic hoax. Relax folks! Nothing to worry about. That is, they did until it started spreading like wildfire and then we jumped into action -- to protect the stock market! But, after almost 3 1/2 months (we knew about it in 2019) we STILL have not ramped up testing beyond the minimum and we have no contact tracing going on. In fact, we can't even get protective equipment and supplies to our healthcare system much less the populace! So, we have infectious people walking around infecting countless others. And the only thing we've done is huddle in fear beyond locked doors hoping it will all go away.
So, your narrative, like Trump's is a false one. There are ways to keep the virus under control. Other countries did so. We just sat there and watched.
But, that isn't the end of it: Trump wants to get the economy going again so people will vote for him in November. So, he is chomping at the bit to remove the only thing that we have done right -- social distancing and doing so with still no testing. In fact, he is even cancelling what little community testing we had going -- probably so he can say the infection rate is going down so he can justify "opening the country up again".
Testing and contact tracing is the key -- but Trump wants none of it. He just wants to open things up again so he can claim victory (no matter how many he kills) and get people to vote for him in Novermber. And, of course, the cult will.
FWIW COVID-18 is not yet under control in S.Korea with a recent resurgence taking place (Singapore too). In fact in their haste to get back to business they may have been lax on a rudimentary control: International travelers arriving from Europe bringing fresh infections as their baggage.
The S.Koreans also, as of today, instituted a new requirement because too many of their citizens are ignoring quarantine orders for various reasons. They're now mandating those scofflaws be fitted with monitoring bracelets, similar to how we keep track of those on house arrest.
...and yes I completely agree with you that S.Korea responded almost immediately, as well they would have been expected to. Afterall the pandemic scare they suffered from 5 years ago was still fresh in their minds, and that one they were NOT prepared for. The US has not had a similar scare until now. With the lessons we're learning we'll be more prepared if it happens again in the next 50 years, just as S.Korea is for this one. Fully prepared? Never. More prepared than we were for COVID-19? Hopefully.
(Summation) 1. But S.Korea DID contain it and, like China, is now facing a second wave as people enter their country from infected areas -- like the U.S.
2. And, Social Distancing is only meant to slow the virus down. 3. It is not meant to end it completely. For that you need testing which is, as I said, what every successful country has done.
You should at least read the articles I link if you're going to comment on them. 1. The arrivals are from Europe who like the US had not had recent experiences with pandemics as the Asians have and did not already have policies and procedures in place beforehand. 2. Of course social distancing is meant to slow it down, "flatten the curve". It is not a treatment itself. Yet it's the single most effective approach any country can employ, and that's according to both Korea and Singapore. You should listen to those Asian experts. 3. Testing can end it completely? Now you're being silly just to win an argument. LOL! OK, you got your test and it's negative. Now what'cha gonna do? Social distance. But wait... Yours came back positive, so now what? Social distance. Only a vaccine can end it and for that the US has committed $B's in both public and private dollars to researchers and pharma to develop one with active drug trials already on the fast track. Have hope they'll be successful sooner rather than later. Until then we'll have resurgence across the globe and social distancing, including aggressive versions of it, will be the primary way of slowing it down. There is no way of ending it until that vaccine is developed. China doesn't have one. S.Korea doesn't have one. Singapore doesn't have one. Every country is trying. Major worldwide thanks to the researchers who develop one, I don't care who it is.
So I don't know what your news sources are but I have a really good suggestion for you: If you're going to make claims in the forum about other countries and COVID-19 try reading news sources from those countries first rather than using half-truth stories from a heavily-biased (political?) source meant to serve an agenda, or worse a personal vendetta using made-up stuff.
From Singapore: https://www.straitstimes.com/ Read both their Singapore and International sections for complete regional coverage. I linked it before but you dismissed it as a US newspaper without ever reading.
Social distancing is the world's only truly effective approach until a vaccine is developed, and that's according to Asian experts with far more experience coping with pandemics. All the testing in the world is only meant to make that approach clearer and allow social distancing to be enforced in stages including full area quarantines if warranted.
All your attempts at playing a blame-game mean nothing, have zero benefit, and only serves to sow distrust of our government at all levels. To what end? We're far more resilient than you want to present us as, and in emergencies far more likely to support our leaders than you'd like. Deal with it. Stop with daily promotion of a political divide and how horrid we are as a country. Please. It is not the time. Your possible next President understands that. You might try swallowing your selfishness for a while too and at least listen to the South Koreans who you believe to be the experts:
"...key factors that contributed to South Korea's effective containment was critical support from its citizens, the New York Times reported. (In first, they are not a right-wing media puppet)
"Public trust has resulted in a very high level of civic awareness and voluntary cooperation that strengthens our collective effort," said Mr Lee Tae-ho, Vice-Minister of Foreign Affairs. Regular reminders for people to keep safe distances and don face masks played a part too.
Your daily efforts as promoting distrust of our current leaders is not at all smart. Instead it makes you complicit if people around you distrust the public advice and the country's leaders responsible for it.
That's great! But there is still a need to make some groups of people aware of the severity of the situation that the world is facing after COVID-19 pandemic so they help controlling the spread by quarantining themselves.
they just think this an old person problem.
True and perhaps they are ignoring the fact that they can be careers (at least) with no symptoms and such careers are making the old citizens' lives more in danger. A research in Germany says that 15% of the people are silent careers (herd immunity) with no apparent symptoms in them (not even cough or soar throat). So, we are left with one choice only i.e. social distancing. But social distancing for how long? This is a big question.
Yes, here in the U.S. the choice is between social distancing or doing nothing and letting the virus run wild. That is because we never developed the resources to conduct adequate testing or contact tracing. So yeh, it's social distancing or Fiddling while Rome burns -- and neither is an acceptable long term choice.
Preach it Brother. We are all most certainly doomed. ...Until we're not, then you'll have a new story to preach.
Amazingly the current administration handling of the pandemic hasn't negatively affected the Presidents approval rating. In fact it compares very favorably with every other recent US President AFAICT https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Thanks brother -- but I'll stick to facts and science -- which include the facts that we weren't prepared and still have not ramped testing or PPE for healthcare workers much less the U.S. population -- which is why we lead the world in infections.
As for Trump's approval rating: As he told us, "I could shoot somebody on 5th Ave in broad daylight" and the cult will approve They're just deluded fools.
No country or state or region has ever been prepared for a pandemic. True?
The answer as to why the US has such a high incidence? Because we were not willing (or truthfully able) to shut off the movement of people into or out of New York City. I know you've suggested we do as other countries may have had some success with. Do you believe we could have done as the Chinese did with Wuhan and completely isolated the city, closed it off using the military as enforcement? Some countries have not gone quite as far, S.Korea and Singapore for example, but still forcefully quarantined any infectious people and even those suspected of being carriers. In addition the people of those countries are more accepting of temporary aggressive responses after experiencing previous coronavirus pandemics in 2003 and 2015, with the latter S.Korea particularly unprepared for and the entire country shut down. How many years has it been since such an event happened on US shores? Our people have been of the opinion it won't happen here for as long as you can remember. This is likely a once in a lifetime event.
Here in the US we are far less tolerant of being subjected to police actions restricting our movements, and as you see here in the forums many will resist any efforts at being tracked as well, even if anonymously.
I suggest you would be one of the voices vociferously complaining had Congress and the President quickly passed legislation allowing for military enforcement of free movement of American people which would be required in order to be effective. Your anger then would be directed at the unconstitutional power grab by the administration, seizing policing powers he is not entitled to even if in order to slow the pandemic. That's the Politico magazine accusation lobbed at Florida Gov. DeSantis when he ordered the State's National Guard to monitor the compliance of New York flight arrivals with his 2-week quarantine order, and the stopping of New York and Louisiana-tagged vehicles entering the state. It was plainly unconstitutional and unenforceable as far as "the other side" was concerned. Big help huh?
Most us do not want to be told what to do, where we can go, or when. Many of us, perhaps you included, would reject military operations on US soil to enforce quarantines. We could not do as China has done, probably not as either S.Korea or Singapore either for that matter. Europe is much the same, freedom of movement and choice is a right not to be infringed upon and forced quarantines of cities would not pass muster with the people.
You ask: Has any country been prepared? Yes, S.Korea. They're first case happened the same day that ours did. And, they ramped up quickly before it got out of control.
And yes, like China they did some quarantining -- but much less so. They didn't need to because they, unlike the U.S., got off their duff and instituted mass testing with rigorous contact tracing and were able to isolate the infectious before they created an epidemic. And ultimately, as they learned more about the pathogen, China did the same: mass testing with contact tracing. So now China also has it under control too -- as do a number of other countries who also did the right things.
Conversely, we did nothing. While Korea was ramping up their testing, Trump and FauxNews told us it was no worse than the flu and all the uproar was just a Democratic hoax. Relax folks! Nothing to worry about. That is, they did until it started spreading like wildfire and then we jumped into action -- to protect the stock market! But, after almost 3 1/2 months (we knew about it in 2019) we STILL have not ramped up testing beyond the minimum and we have no contact tracing going on. In fact, we can't even get protective equipment and supplies to our healthcare system much less the populace! So, we have infectious people walking around infecting countless others. And the only thing we've done is huddle in fear beyond locked doors hoping it will all go away.
So, your narrative, like Trump's is a false one. There are ways to keep the virus under control. Other countries did so. We just sat there and watched.
But, that isn't the end of it: Trump wants to get the economy going again so people will vote for him in November. So, he is chomping at the bit to remove the only thing that we have done right -- social distancing and doing so with still no testing. In fact, he is even cancelling what little community testing we had going -- probably so he can say the infection rate is going down so he can justify "opening the country up again".
Testing and contact tracing is the key -- but Trump wants none of it. He just wants to open things up again so he can claim victory (no matter how many he kills) and get people to vote for him in Novermber. And, of course, the cult will.
FWIW COVID-18 is not yet under control in S.Korea with a recent resurgence taking place (Singapore too). In fact in their haste to get back to business they may have been lax on a rudimentary control: International travelers arriving from Europe bringing fresh infections as their baggage.
The S.Koreans also, as of today, instituted a new requirement because too many of their citizens are ignoring quarantine orders for various reasons. They're now mandating those scofflaws be fitted with monitoring bracelets, similar to how we keep track of those on house arrest.
...and yes I completely agree with you that S.Korea responded almost immediately, as well they would have been expected to. Afterall the pandemic scare they suffered from 5 years ago was still fresh in their minds, and that one they were NOT prepared for. The US has not had a similar scare until now. With the lessons we're learning we'll be more prepared if it happens again in the next 50 years, just as S.Korea is for this one. Fully prepared? Never. More prepared than we were for COVID-19? Hopefully.
(Summation) 1. But S.Korea DID contain it and, like China, is now facing a second wave as people enter their country from infected areas -- like the U.S.
2. And, Social Distancing is only meant to slow the virus down. 3. It is not meant to end it completely. For that you need testing which is, as I said, what every successful country has done.
You should at least read the articles I link if you're going to comment on them. 1. The arrivals are from Europe who like the US had not had recent experiences with pandemics as the Asians have and did not already have policies and procedures in place beforehand. 2. Of course social distancing is meant to slow it down, "flatten the curve". It is not a treatment itself. Yet it's the single most effective approach any country can employ, and that's according to both Korea and Singapore. You should listen to those Asian experts. 3. Testing can end it completely? Now you're being silly just to win an argument. LOL! OK, you got your test and it's negative. Now what'cha gonna do? Social distance. Only a vaccine can end it and for that the US has committed $B's in both public and private dollars to researchers and pharma to develop one with active drug trials already on the fast track. Have hope they'll be successful sooner rather than later. Until then we'll have resurgence across the globe and social distancing will be the primary way of slowing it down. There is no way of ending it until that vaccine is developed.
I don't know what your news sources are but I have a really good suggestion for you: If you're going to make claims in the forum about other countries and COVID-19 try reading news sources from those countries first rather than using half-truth stories from a heavily-biased (political?) source meant to serve an agenda, or worse a personal vendetta using made-up stuff.
From Singapore: https://www.straitstimes.com/ Read both their Singapore and International sections for complete regional coverage. I linked it before but you dismissed it as a US newspaper without ever reading.
Your #1: Bull! We used to have a pandemic response team -- until Trump fired them -- along with the team in China working with them.
Your #2: Bull! You can't shut down an entire country down forever simply because Social Distancing is your only response to the virus. Your #3: Bull! Testing and contact tracing is the only way for the foreseeable future to reduce the infection rate down to liveable levels.
Despite your FauxNews like black and white, oversimplification suggesting that Social Distancing is the only necessary step, I'll stick to reality. It's a temporary measure meant to slow the infection rate down enough so our healthcare systems are not completely overwhelmed - until we can fully ramp up the resources to actually contain the virus -- namely effective testing and contact tracing. But, we FAILED. We aren't doing those things because we CAN'T do those things, due to the FAILURE of this administration. So, we are stuck with either Social Distancing or nothing -- and your president is telling us he favors nothing -- because otherwise the economy crashes and he loses in November. He is killing Americans so he can help insure his reelection.
The reasons we are not testing and contact tracing here is not, as you suggest, because it is ineffective -- but because our president not only FAILED to prepare but has not yet ramped up the resources needed for effective testing. It is yet another FAILURE of this administration -- and this FAILURE has contributed significantly to the (so far) deaths of 20,000 Americans.
How many Americans do think should die waiting for Trump's miraculous cure? How many deaths are acceptable to save the Trump economy?
For me, that number is zero.
Instead of waiting for a miracle a responsible government would be marshaling resources to save American lives by identifying the infectious and isolating them
That's great! But there is still a need to make some groups of people aware of the severity of the situation that the world is facing after COVID-19 pandemic so they help controlling the spread by quarantining themselves.
they just think this an old person problem.
True and perhaps they are ignoring the fact that they can be careers (at least) with no symptoms and such careers are making the old citizens' lives more in danger. A research in Germany says that 15% of the people are silent careers (herd immunity) with no apparent symptoms in them (not even cough or soar throat). So, we are left with one choice only i.e. social distancing. But social distancing for how long? This is a big question.
Yes, here in the U.S. the choice is between social distancing or doing nothing and letting the virus run wild. That is because we never developed the resources to conduct adequate testing or contact tracing. So yeh, it's social distancing or Fiddling while Rome burns -- and neither is an acceptable long term choice.
Preach it Brother. We are all most certainly doomed. ...Until we're not, then you'll have a new story to preach.
Amazingly the current administration handling of the pandemic hasn't negatively affected the Presidents approval rating. In fact it compares very favorably with every other recent US President AFAICT https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Thanks brother -- but I'll stick to facts and science -- which include the facts that we weren't prepared and still have not ramped testing or PPE for healthcare workers much less the U.S. population -- which is why we lead the world in infections.
As for Trump's approval rating: As he told us, "I could shoot somebody on 5th Ave in broad daylight" and the cult will approve They're just deluded fools.
No country or state or region has ever been prepared for a pandemic. True?
The answer as to why the US has such a high incidence? Because we were not willing (or truthfully able) to shut off the movement of people into or out of New York City. I know you've suggested we do as other countries may have had some success with. Do you believe we could have done as the Chinese did with Wuhan and completely isolated the city, closed it off using the military as enforcement? Some countries have not gone quite as far, S.Korea and Singapore for example, but still forcefully quarantined any infectious people and even those suspected of being carriers. In addition the people of those countries are more accepting of temporary aggressive responses after experiencing previous coronavirus pandemics in 2003 and 2015, with the latter S.Korea particularly unprepared for and the entire country shut down. How many years has it been since such an event happened on US shores? Our people have been of the opinion it won't happen here for as long as you can remember. This is likely a once in a lifetime event.
Here in the US we are far less tolerant of being subjected to police actions restricting our movements, and as you see here in the forums many will resist any efforts at being tracked as well, even if anonymously.
I suggest you would be one of the voices vociferously complaining had Congress and the President quickly passed legislation allowing for military enforcement of free movement of American people which would be required in order to be effective. Your anger then would be directed at the unconstitutional power grab by the administration, seizing policing powers he is not entitled to even if in order to slow the pandemic. That's the Politico magazine accusation lobbed at Florida Gov. DeSantis when he ordered the State's National Guard to monitor the compliance of New York flight arrivals with his 2-week quarantine order, and the stopping of New York and Louisiana-tagged vehicles entering the state. It was plainly unconstitutional and unenforceable as far as "the other side" was concerned. Big help huh?
Most us do not want to be told what to do, where we can go, or when. Many of us, perhaps you included, would reject military operations on US soil to enforce quarantines. We could not do as China has done, probably not as either S.Korea or Singapore either for that matter. Europe is much the same, freedom of movement and choice is a right not to be infringed upon and forced quarantines of cities would not pass muster with the people.
You ask: Has any country been prepared? Yes, S.Korea. They're first case happened the same day that ours did. And, they ramped up quickly before it got out of control.
And yes, like China they did some quarantining -- but much less so. They didn't need to because they, unlike the U.S., got off their duff and instituted mass testing with rigorous contact tracing and were able to isolate the infectious before they created an epidemic. And ultimately, as they learned more about the pathogen, China did the same: mass testing with contact tracing. So now China also has it under control too -- as do a number of other countries who also did the right things.
Conversely, we did nothing. While Korea was ramping up their testing, Trump and FauxNews told us it was no worse than the flu and all the uproar was just a Democratic hoax. Relax folks! Nothing to worry about. That is, they did until it started spreading like wildfire and then we jumped into action -- to protect the stock market! But, after almost 3 1/2 months (we knew about it in 2019) we STILL have not ramped up testing beyond the minimum and we have no contact tracing going on. In fact, we can't even get protective equipment and supplies to our healthcare system much less the populace! So, we have infectious people walking around infecting countless others. And the only thing we've done is huddle in fear beyond locked doors hoping it will all go away.
So, your narrative, like Trump's is a false one. There are ways to keep the virus under control. Other countries did so. We just sat there and watched.
But, that isn't the end of it: Trump wants to get the economy going again so people will vote for him in November. So, he is chomping at the bit to remove the only thing that we have done right -- social distancing and doing so with still no testing. In fact, he is even cancelling what little community testing we had going -- probably so he can say the infection rate is going down so he can justify "opening the country up again".
Testing and contact tracing is the key -- but Trump wants none of it. He just wants to open things up again so he can claim victory (no matter how many he kills) and get people to vote for him in Novermber. And, of course, the cult will.
FWIW COVID-18 is not yet under control in S.Korea with a recent resurgence taking place (Singapore too). In fact in their haste to get back to business they may have been lax on a rudimentary control: International travelers arriving from Europe bringing fresh infections as their baggage.
The S.Koreans also, as of today, instituted a new requirement because too many of their citizens are ignoring quarantine orders for various reasons. They're now mandating those scofflaws be fitted with monitoring bracelets, similar to how we keep track of those on house arrest.
...and yes I completely agree with you that S.Korea responded almost immediately, as well they would have been expected to. Afterall the pandemic scare they suffered from 5 years ago was still fresh in their minds, and that one they were NOT prepared for. The US has not had a similar scare until now. With the lessons we're learning we'll be more prepared if it happens again in the next 50 years, just as S.Korea is for this one. Fully prepared? Never. More prepared than we were for COVID-19? Hopefully.
(Summation) 1. But S.Korea DID contain it and, like China, is now facing a second wave as people enter their country from infected areas -- like the U.S.
2. And, Social Distancing is only meant to slow the virus down. 3. It is not meant to end it completely. For that you need testing which is, as I said, what every successful country has done.
You should at least read the articles I link if you're going to comment on them. 1. The arrivals are from Europe who like the US had not had recent experiences with pandemics as the Asians have and did not already have policies and procedures in place beforehand. 2. Of course social distancing is meant to slow it down, "flatten the curve". It is not a treatment itself. Yet it's the single most effective approach any country can employ, and that's according to both Korea and Singapore. You should listen to those Asian experts. 3. Testing can end it completely? Now you're being silly just to win an argument. LOL! OK, you got your test and it's negative. Now what'cha gonna do? Social distance. Only a vaccine can end it and for that the US has committed $B's in both public and private dollars to researchers and pharma to develop one with active drug trials already on the fast track. Have hope they'll be successful sooner rather than later. Until then we'll have resurgence across the globe and social distancing will be the primary way of slowing it down. There is no way of ending it until that vaccine is developed.
I don't know what your news sources are but I have a really good suggestion for you: If you're going to make claims in the forum about other countries and COVID-19 try reading news sources from those countries first rather than using half-truth stories from a heavily-biased (political?) source meant to serve an agenda, or worse a personal vendetta using made-up stuff.
From Singapore: https://www.straitstimes.com/ Read both their Singapore and International sections for complete regional coverage. I linked it before but you dismissed it as a US newspaper without ever reading.
Your #1: Bull! We used to have a pandemic response team -- until Trump fired them -- along with the team in China working with them.
Your #2: Bull! You can't shut down an entire country down forever simply because Social Distancing is your only response to the virus. Your #3: Bull! Testing and contact tracing is the only way for the foreseeable future to reduce the infection rate down to liveable levels.
...we CAN'T do those things, due to the FAILURE of this administration. TRUMP! ...and your president is telling us he favors nothing -- because otherwise the economy crashes and he loses in November. TRUMP! ... He is killing Americans so he can help insure his reelection. TRUMP!
... our president not only FAILED to prepare but has not yet ramped up the resources needed for effective testing. TRUMP! ...It is yet another FAILURE of this administration. TRUMP! ...How many Americans do think should die waiting for Trump's miraculous cure? TRUMP! ...How many deaths are acceptable to save the Trump economy? TRUMP!
LOL. You just proved exactly what I guessed about you earlier. Did you read what you wrote before posting it? You obviously did not read a single one of the Singapore or S. Korean news pieces I linked before you posted because you're not interested in the truths they delivered. That's not your game.
Your personal vendetta is obvious: Trump, then Trump, then more Trump... Oh and then some Trump thrown in for good measure. All Trump and all the time. Nothing you have to say can be trusted since it all flows back to the same. You hate Trump. We get it. IMO You have an unhealthy obsession with it.
That's great! But there is still a need to make some groups of people aware of the severity of the situation that the world is facing after COVID-19 pandemic so they help controlling the spread by quarantining themselves.
they just think this an old person problem.
True and perhaps they are ignoring the fact that they can be careers (at least) with no symptoms and such careers are making the old citizens' lives more in danger. A research in Germany says that 15% of the people are silent careers (herd immunity) with no apparent symptoms in them (not even cough or soar throat). So, we are left with one choice only i.e. social distancing. But social distancing for how long? This is a big question.
Yes, here in the U.S. the choice is between social distancing or doing nothing and letting the virus run wild. That is because we never developed the resources to conduct adequate testing or contact tracing. So yeh, it's social distancing or Fiddling while Rome burns -- and neither is an acceptable long term choice.
Preach it Brother. We are all most certainly doomed. ...Until we're not, then you'll have a new story to preach.
Amazingly the current administration handling of the pandemic hasn't negatively affected the Presidents approval rating. In fact it compares very favorably with every other recent US President AFAICT https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Thanks brother -- but I'll stick to facts and science -- which include the facts that we weren't prepared and still have not ramped testing or PPE for healthcare workers much less the U.S. population -- which is why we lead the world in infections.
As for Trump's approval rating: As he told us, "I could shoot somebody on 5th Ave in broad daylight" and the cult will approve They're just deluded fools.
No country or state or region has ever been prepared for a pandemic. True?
The answer as to why the US has such a high incidence? Because we were not willing (or truthfully able) to shut off the movement of people into or out of New York City. I know you've suggested we do as other countries may have had some success with. Do you believe we could have done as the Chinese did with Wuhan and completely isolated the city, closed it off using the military as enforcement? Some countries have not gone quite as far, S.Korea and Singapore for example, but still forcefully quarantined any infectious people and even those suspected of being carriers. In addition the people of those countries are more accepting of temporary aggressive responses after experiencing previous coronavirus pandemics in 2003 and 2015, with the latter S.Korea particularly unprepared for and the entire country shut down. How many years has it been since such an event happened on US shores? Our people have been of the opinion it won't happen here for as long as you can remember. This is likely a once in a lifetime event.
Here in the US we are far less tolerant of being subjected to police actions restricting our movements, and as you see here in the forums many will resist any efforts at being tracked as well, even if anonymously.
I suggest you would be one of the voices vociferously complaining had Congress and the President quickly passed legislation allowing for military enforcement of free movement of American people which would be required in order to be effective. Your anger then would be directed at the unconstitutional power grab by the administration, seizing policing powers he is not entitled to even if in order to slow the pandemic. That's the Politico magazine accusation lobbed at Florida Gov. DeSantis when he ordered the State's National Guard to monitor the compliance of New York flight arrivals with his 2-week quarantine order, and the stopping of New York and Louisiana-tagged vehicles entering the state. It was plainly unconstitutional and unenforceable as far as "the other side" was concerned. Big help huh?
Most us do not want to be told what to do, where we can go, or when. Many of us, perhaps you included, would reject military operations on US soil to enforce quarantines. We could not do as China has done, probably not as either S.Korea or Singapore either for that matter. Europe is much the same, freedom of movement and choice is a right not to be infringed upon and forced quarantines of cities would not pass muster with the people.
You ask: Has any country been prepared? Yes, S.Korea. They're first case happened the same day that ours did. And, they ramped up quickly before it got out of control.
And yes, like China they did some quarantining -- but much less so. They didn't need to because they, unlike the U.S., got off their duff and instituted mass testing with rigorous contact tracing and were able to isolate the infectious before they created an epidemic. And ultimately, as they learned more about the pathogen, China did the same: mass testing with contact tracing. So now China also has it under control too -- as do a number of other countries who also did the right things.
Conversely, we did nothing. While Korea was ramping up their testing, Trump and FauxNews told us it was no worse than the flu and all the uproar was just a Democratic hoax. Relax folks! Nothing to worry about. That is, they did until it started spreading like wildfire and then we jumped into action -- to protect the stock market! But, after almost 3 1/2 months (we knew about it in 2019) we STILL have not ramped up testing beyond the minimum and we have no contact tracing going on. In fact, we can't even get protective equipment and supplies to our healthcare system much less the populace! So, we have infectious people walking around infecting countless others. And the only thing we've done is huddle in fear beyond locked doors hoping it will all go away.
So, your narrative, like Trump's is a false one. There are ways to keep the virus under control. Other countries did so. We just sat there and watched.
But, that isn't the end of it: Trump wants to get the economy going again so people will vote for him in November. So, he is chomping at the bit to remove the only thing that we have done right -- social distancing and doing so with still no testing. In fact, he is even cancelling what little community testing we had going -- probably so he can say the infection rate is going down so he can justify "opening the country up again".
Testing and contact tracing is the key -- but Trump wants none of it. He just wants to open things up again so he can claim victory (no matter how many he kills) and get people to vote for him in Novermber. And, of course, the cult will.
FWIW COVID-18 is not yet under control in S.Korea with a recent resurgence taking place (Singapore too). In fact in their haste to get back to business they may have been lax on a rudimentary control: International travelers arriving from Europe bringing fresh infections as their baggage.
The S.Koreans also, as of today, instituted a new requirement because too many of their citizens are ignoring quarantine orders for various reasons. They're now mandating those scofflaws be fitted with monitoring bracelets, similar to how we keep track of those on house arrest.
...and yes I completely agree with you that S.Korea responded almost immediately, as well they would have been expected to. Afterall the pandemic scare they suffered from 5 years ago was still fresh in their minds, and that one they were NOT prepared for. The US has not had a similar scare until now. With the lessons we're learning we'll be more prepared if it happens again in the next 50 years, just as S.Korea is for this one. Fully prepared? Never. More prepared than we were for COVID-19? Hopefully.
(Summation) 1. But S.Korea DID contain it and, like China, is now facing a second wave as people enter their country from infected areas -- like the U.S.
2. And, Social Distancing is only meant to slow the virus down. 3. It is not meant to end it completely. For that you need testing which is, as I said, what every successful country has done.
You should at least read the articles I link if you're going to comment on them. 1. The arrivals are from Europe who like the US had not had recent experiences with pandemics as the Asians have and did not already have policies and procedures in place beforehand. 2. Of course social distancing is meant to slow it down, "flatten the curve". It is not a treatment itself. Yet it's the single most effective approach any country can employ, and that's according to both Korea and Singapore. You should listen to those Asian experts. 3. Testing can end it completely? Now you're being silly just to win an argument. LOL! OK, you got your test and it's negative. Now what'cha gonna do? Social distance. Only a vaccine can end it and for that the US has committed $B's in both public and private dollars to researchers and pharma to develop one with active drug trials already on the fast track. Have hope they'll be successful sooner rather than later. Until then we'll have resurgence across the globe and social distancing will be the primary way of slowing it down. There is no way of ending it until that vaccine is developed.
I don't know what your news sources are but I have a really good suggestion for you: If you're going to make claims in the forum about other countries and COVID-19 try reading news sources from those countries first rather than using half-truth stories from a heavily-biased (political?) source meant to serve an agenda, or worse a personal vendetta using made-up stuff.
From Singapore: https://www.straitstimes.com/ Read both their Singapore and International sections for complete regional coverage. I linked it before but you dismissed it as a US newspaper without ever reading.
Your #1: Bull! We used to have a pandemic response team -- until Trump fired them -- along with the team in China working with them.
Your #2: Bull! You can't shut down an entire country down forever simply because Social Distancing is your only response to the virus. Your #3: Bull! Testing and contact tracing is the only way for the foreseeable future to reduce the infection rate down to liveable levels.
...we CAN'T do those things, due to the FAILURE of this administration. TRUMP! ...and your president is telling us he favors nothing -- because otherwise the economy crashes and he loses in November. TRUMP! ... He is killing Americans so he can help insure his reelection. TRUMP!
... our president not only FAILED to prepare but has not yet ramped up the resources needed for effective testing. TRUMP! ...It is yet another FAILURE of this administration. TRUMP! ...How many Americans do think should die waiting for Trump's miraculous cure? TRUMP! ...How many deaths are acceptable to save the Trump economy? TRUMP!
LOL. You just proved exactly what I guessed about you earlier. Did you read what you wrote before posting it? You obviously did not read a single one of the Singapore or S. Korean news pieces I linked before you posted because you're not interested in the truths they delivered. That's not your game.
Your personal vendetta is obvious: Trump, then Trump, then more Trump... Oh and then some Trump thrown in for good measure. All Trump and all the time. Nothing you have to say can be trusted since it all flows back to the same. You hate Trump. We get it. IMO You have an unhealthy obsession with it.
No, you're correct. I prefer facts and truth to propaganda.
And, so far, the facts and truth show that this administration FAILED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE during a time of crisis. That's not a vendetta. It's just the very sad truth.
Can you imagine: you've recovered from coronavirus... yet, perhaps for years... people run away from you on the street and in stores.
You will be excommunicated from society. Forever?
I live in a Covid-19 epicenter, and a forever-Apple user, but... this is a bad idea. The stigma will be forever. Don't do it.
Don't do what? It's anonymous. You don't get a Scarlett letter with it, there's no branding iron or tattoo, and nobody knows your name. Read more and worry less.
Your #1: Bull! We used to have a pandemic response team -- until Trump fired them -- along with the team in China working with them.
Your #2: Bull! You can't shut down an entire country down forever simply because Social Distancing is your only response to the virus. Your #3: Bull! Testing and contact tracing is the only way for the foreseeable future to reduce the infection rate down to liveable levels.
Despite your FauxNews like black and white, oversimplification suggesting that Social Distancing is the only necessary step, I'll stick to reality. It's a temporary measure meant to slow the infection rate down enough so our healthcare systems are not completely overwhelmed - until we can fully ramp up the resources to actually contain the virus -- namely effective testing and contact tracing. But, we FAILED. We aren't doing those things because we CAN'T do those things, due to the FAILURE of this administration. So, we are stuck with either Social Distancing or nothing -- and your president is telling us he favors nothing -- because otherwise the economy crashes and he loses in November. He is killing Americans so he can help insure his reelection.
The reasons we are not testing and contact tracing here is not, as you suggest, because it is ineffective -- but because our president not only FAILED to prepare but has not yet ramped up the resources needed for effective testing. It is yet another FAILURE of this administration -- and this FAILURE has contributed significantly to the (so far) deaths of 20,000 Americans.
How many Americans do think should die waiting for Trump's miraculous cure? How many deaths are acceptable to save the Trump economy?
For me, that number is zero.
Instead of waiting for a miracle a responsible government would be marshaling resources to save American lives by identifying the infectious and isolating them
Soooo, lets win an argument by bashing your opponent, calling names, and refusing to debate. Doesn't sound like science and facts to me. Sounds like an agenda.
Facts, real ones, are hard for Trumpers. Reality is even harder.
Comments
Coronavirus: Apple and Google team up to contact trace Covid-19
Their contact-tracing method would work by using a smartphone's Bluetooth signals to determine to whom the owner had recently been in proximity for long enough to have established contagion a risk. If one of those people later tested positive for the Covid-19 virus, a warning would be sent to the original handset owner. No GPS location data or personal information would be recorded.
Records of the digital IDs involved would be stored on remote computer servers but the companies say these could not be used to unmask a specific individual's true identity. Furthermore, the contact-matching process would take place on the phones rather than centrally. This would make it possible for someone to be told they should go into quarantine, without anyone else being notified.
Phase two of the initiative involves building contact-tracing capabilities into the iOS and Android operating systems. Users could then switch the capability on and off again without having to download an app at all. Approved third-party apps would still be able to interact with the facility if desired.
The facility would be delivered via a future system software update. But the companies have yet to say when this would occur.
---------------------------------On a practical, personal level, I am picturing myself getting a notification that sometime in the past three weeks I had contact with an infected person. So, now what do I do? Since testing is and will be restricted, what are my options? Should I ignore the warning? Or quarantine myself for 14 days? Both are poor choices.
"People who test positive for the virus can opt to send an encrypted list of phones they came near to Apple and Google, which will trigger alerts to potentially exposed users to seek more information. Public health authorities would need to sign off that an individual has tested positive before they can send on the data. "
Unfortuantely they did not say how that "sign off" would work in practice. However, in most areas, a positive test triggers mandatory reporting by a clinician, do public health official will know if a person is infected.
Yes, here in the U.S. the choice is between social distancing or doing nothing and letting the virus run wild. That is because we never developed the resources to conduct adequate testing or contact tracing. So yeh, it's social distancing or Fiddling while Rome burns -- and neither is an acceptable long term choice.
...Until we're not, then you'll have a new story to preach.
Amazingly the current administration handling of the pandemic hasn't negatively affected the Presidents approval rating. In fact it compares very favorably with every other recent US President AFAICT
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Thanks brother -- but I'll stick to facts and science -- which include the facts that we weren't prepared and still have not ramped testing or PPE for healthcare workers much less the U.S. population -- which is why we lead the world in infections.
As for Trump's approval rating: As he told us, "I could shoot somebody on 5th Ave in broad daylight" and the cult will approve They're just deluded fools.
The answer as to why the US has such a high incidence? Because we were not willing (or truthfully able) to shut off the movement of people into or out of New York City. I know you've suggested we do as other countries may have had some success with. Do you believe we could have done as the Chinese did with Wuhan and completely isolated the city, closed it off using the military as enforcement? Some countries have not gone quite as far, S.Korea and Singapore for example, but still forcefully quarantined any infectious people and even those suspected of being carriers. In addition the people of those countries are more accepting of temporary aggressive responses after experiencing previous coronavirus pandemics in 2003 and 2015, with the latter S.Korea particularly unprepared for and the entire country shut down. How many years has it been since such an event happened on US shores? Our people have been of the opinion it won't happen here for as long as you can remember. This is likely a once in a lifetime event.
Here in the US we are far less tolerant of being subjected to police actions restricting our movements, and as you see here in the forums many will resist any efforts at being tracked as well, even if anonymously.
I suggest you would be one of the voices vociferously complaining had Congress and the President quickly passed legislation allowing for military enforcement of free movement of American people which would be required in order to be effective. Your anger then would be directed at the unconstitutional power grab by the administration, seizing policing powers he is not entitled to even if in order to slow the pandemic. That's the Politico magazine accusation lobbed at Florida Gov. DeSantis when he ordered the State's National Guard to monitor the compliance of New York flight arrivals with his 2-week quarantine order, and the stopping of New York and Louisiana-tagged vehicles entering the state. It was plainly unconstitutional and unenforceable as far as "the other side" was concerned. Big help huh?
Most us do not want to be told what to do, where we can go, or when. Many of us, perhaps you included, would reject military operations on US soil to enforce quarantines. We could not do as China has done, probably not as either S.Korea or Singapore either for that matter. Europe is much the same, freedom of movement and choice is a right not to be infringed upon and forced quarantines of cities would not pass muster with the people.
We’re now up to over half a million infected and almost 20,000 dead. Our nurses are wearing trash bags and PPE is woefully missing, and our officials are saying “not my problem”, “we’re not a shipping clerk” and “you should have been nicer to me” when they should have gotten on producing more back in January, when the US intelligence reports were coming in to Trump and friends, but were ignored.
Every president gets an approval increase during crisis, it’s been observed and written about. Doesn’t somehow make the response any better.
Wake the fuck up.
https://www.wired.com/story/the-asian-countries-that-beat-covid-19-have-to-do-it-again/
The S.Koreans also, as of today, instituted a new requirement because too many of their citizens are ignoring quarantine orders for various reasons. They're now mandating those scofflaws be fitted with monitoring bracelets, similar to how we keep track of those on house arrest.
...and yes I completely agree with you that S.Korea responded almost immediately, as well they would have been expected to. Afterall the pandemic scare they suffered from 5 years ago was still fresh in their minds, and that one they were NOT prepared for. The US has not had a similar scare until now. With the lessons we're learning we'll be more prepared if it happens again in the next 50 years, just as S.Korea is for this one. Fully prepared? Never. More prepared than we were for COVID-19? Hopefully.
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/coronavirus-south-korea-to-strap-tracking-wristbands-on-those-who-violate-quarantine
https://www.citylab.com/life/2020/03/coronavirus-stay-at-home-order-lockdown-social-distancing/608857/
BTW, according to the experts contacted for those articles the most effective approach to slowing the spread is what?
Testing and tracking are NOT the key despite your proclamation they are. Social distancing without a doubt is the most effective method we know of.
There are no 100% reliable tests to find those infected and isolate just those people, and no country has the resources to test a large percentage of their populace anyway unless you're calling Iceland's short of 10% a large percentage. Those things are simply a big assist in identifying the hotspots where social distancing needs to be emphasized and perhaps strongly enforced.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/03/416906/why-experts-are-urging-social-distancing-combat-coronavirus-outbreak
and are you personally willing to do this? IMO very few Westiners would be. Any comment?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/04/01/coronavirus-covid-19-china-radical-measures-lockdowns-mass-quarantines/2938374001/
Nice try!
But, your president, is now seeking to lift the only measures we have put into place: Social Distancing. Because, if he doesn't, unemployment goes up, the stock market goes down and he is more likely to spend time in the BigHouse than the WhiteHouse after November. He's scared -- not for the thousands of American suffering and dying from this disease due to his multiple FAILURES but for himself.
For myself, I am tired of being unnecessarily threatened by this disease. I want my country to start doing the right things to bring it under control and keep its people safe.
1. The arrivals are from Europe who like the US had not had recent experiences with pandemics as the Asians have and did not already have policies and procedures in place beforehand.
2. Of course social distancing is meant to slow it down, "flatten the curve". It is not a treatment itself. Yet it's the single most effective approach any country can employ, and that's according to both Korea and Singapore. You should listen to those Asian experts.
3. Testing can end it completely? Now you're being silly just to win an argument. LOL! OK, you got your test and it's negative. Now what'cha gonna do? Social distance.
But wait... Yours came back positive, so now what? Social distance.
Only a vaccine can end it and for that the US has committed $B's in both public and private dollars to researchers and pharma to develop one with active drug trials already on the fast track. Have hope they'll be successful sooner rather than later. Until then we'll have resurgence across the globe and social distancing, including aggressive versions of it, will be the primary way of slowing it down. There is no way of ending it until that vaccine is developed. China doesn't have one. S.Korea doesn't have one. Singapore doesn't have one. Every country is trying. Major worldwide thanks to the researchers who develop one, I don't care who it is.
So I don't know what your news sources are but I have a really good suggestion for you: If you're going to make claims in the forum about other countries and COVID-19 try reading news sources from those countries first rather than using half-truth stories from a heavily-biased (political?) source meant to serve an agenda, or worse a personal vendetta using made-up stuff.
From Singapore: https://www.straitstimes.com/
Read both their Singapore and International sections for complete regional coverage. I linked it before but you dismissed it as a US newspaper without ever reading.
In fact if you're truly interested in how those Asian countries you keep mentioning approach it and willing to honestly compare it to the US efforts rather than doing the bash-fest read this specific article:
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/how-spores-circuit-breaker-compares-with-other-countries-lockdowns
Then there's Korea's leading newspaper, English version (I doubt you read Korean, tho you may read Chinese) with the latest from there: http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200411000078
Social distancing is the world's only truly effective approach until a vaccine is developed, and that's according to Asian experts with far more experience coping with pandemics. All the testing in the world is only meant to make that approach clearer and allow social distancing to be enforced in stages including full area quarantines if warranted.
All your attempts at playing a blame-game mean nothing, have zero benefit, and only serves to sow distrust of our government at all levels. To what end? We're far more resilient than you want to present us as, and in emergencies far more likely to support our leaders than you'd like. Deal with it. Stop with daily promotion of a political divide and how horrid we are as a country. Please. It is not the time. Your possible next President understands that. You might try swallowing your selfishness for a while too and at least listen to the South Koreans who you believe to be the experts:
"...key factors that contributed to South Korea's effective containment was critical support from its citizens, the New York Times reported. (In first, they are not a right-wing media puppet)
"Public trust has resulted in a very high level of civic awareness and voluntary cooperation that strengthens our collective effort," said Mr Lee Tae-ho, Vice-Minister of Foreign Affairs. Regular reminders for people to keep safe distances and don face masks played a part too.
Your daily efforts as promoting distrust of our current leaders is not at all smart. Instead it makes you complicit if people around you distrust the public advice and the country's leaders responsible for it.
Your #3: Bull! Testing and contact tracing is the only way for the foreseeable future to reduce the infection rate down to liveable levels.
It's a temporary measure meant to slow the infection rate down enough so our healthcare systems are not completely overwhelmed - until we can fully ramp up the resources to actually contain the virus -- namely effective testing and contact tracing. But, we FAILED. We aren't doing those things because we CAN'T do those things, due to the FAILURE of this administration. So, we are stuck with either Social Distancing or nothing -- and your president is telling us he favors nothing -- because otherwise the economy crashes and he loses in November. He is killing Americans so he can help insure his reelection.
You obviously did not read a single one of the Singapore or S. Korean news pieces I linked before you posted because you're not interested in the truths they delivered. That's not your game.
Your personal vendetta is obvious: Trump, then Trump, then more Trump... Oh and then some Trump thrown in for good measure. All Trump and all the time. Nothing you have to say can be trusted since it all flows back to the same. You hate Trump. We get it. IMO You have an unhealthy obsession with it.
No, you're correct. I prefer facts and truth to propaganda.
You will be excommunicated from society. Forever?
I live in a Covid-19 epicenter, and a forever-Apple user, but... this is a bad idea. The stigma will be forever. Don't do it.
Read more and worry less.
Facts, real ones, are hard for Trumpers. Reality is even harder.