Apple and Google are working on a Bluetooth contact tracing system that could help track and possibly reduce the spread of COVID-19. But security experts that AppleInsider have spoken to express concerns about privacy and execution, which could undermine its effectivenessompletely anonymous.
As an example of how this can be leveraged by a bad actor, former Federal Trade Commission technologist Ashkan Soltani gave an example of a so-called "linkage attack" which could reveal the identity of someone who is COVID-19 positive.
"By design, your smartphone will broadcast a rotating unique identifier (via Bluetooth) every few minutes (the rolling proximity identifier) to anyone within range," Soltani told AppleInsider. That means there's no granular controls for users to avoid this, beyond not using the system.
Someone with a Bluetooth sniffer and a video camera could collect pairs of photos and rolling identifiers in a public place, Soltani explains. If one of those people tests positive for COVID-19, the attacker could pair their diagnosis keys with the pictures and rolling identifiers."
Seriously? That's considered a real and rational threat, a guy hiding in the bushes taking pictures of everyone passing by while sniffing their rotating bluetooth identifier, then cataloging those thousands of picture and timestamps and looking thru them hoping to find a match if someone tests positive? O.M.G.
If I ever test positive I won't be trying to hide it from anyone who might need to know in order to protect their own health.
These are indeed strange times we are living through. I thought Hell would freeze over before I ever agreed with gatorguy. Apparently I was wrong.
I usually agree with almost all of gatorguy's posts. But off late, I am unable to agree with him on anything related to COVID-19 and US government's handling of it. I am with GeorgeBMac on those arguments and tend to agree with StrangeDays as well. Yup, Strange Days indeed.
Apple and Google are working on a Bluetooth contact tracing system that could help track and possibly reduce the spread of COVID-19. But security experts that AppleInsider have spoken to express concerns about privacy and execution, which could undermine its effectivenessompletely anonymous.
As an example of how this can be leveraged by a bad actor, former Federal Trade Commission technologist Ashkan Soltani gave an example of a so-called "linkage attack" which could reveal the identity of someone who is COVID-19 positive.
"By design, your smartphone will broadcast a rotating unique identifier (via Bluetooth) every few minutes (the rolling proximity identifier) to anyone within range," Soltani told AppleInsider. That means there's no granular controls for users to avoid this, beyond not using the system.
Someone with a Bluetooth sniffer and a video camera could collect pairs of photos and rolling identifiers in a public place, Soltani explains. If one of those people tests positive for COVID-19, the attacker could pair their diagnosis keys with the pictures and rolling identifiers."
Seriously? That's considered a real and rational threat, a guy hiding in the bushes taking pictures of everyone passing by while sniffing their rotating bluetooth identifier, then cataloging those thousands of picture and timestamps and looking thru them hoping to find a match if someone tests positive? O.M.G.
If I ever test positive I won't be trying to hide it from anyone who might need to know in order to protect their own health.
These are indeed strange times we are living through. I thought Hell would freeze over before I ever agreed with gatorguy. Apparently I was wrong.
I usually agree with almost all of gatorguy's posts. But off late, I am unable to agree with him on anything related to COVID-19 and US government's handling of it. I am with GeorgeBMac on those arguments and tend to agree with StrangeDays as well. Yup, Strange Days indeed.
We all fear what we don't understand, and if we can't control it the tendency is to attack it. It's human nature. The best defense is knowledge.
FWIW I don't agree with the way the current administration has generally handled it. Extremely inconsistent positions, no clearly defined plan, little in the way of reassurance that if we all cooperate we can get thru this. Our leadership is lacking and it's the wrong time to have a President with a divisive personality. It does not reassure me at all.
With that said there's nothing that any country can do to eliminate the danger of infection. Even those countries where it was claimed early on that they "had it all under control" continue to see resurgence after resurgence and will for the foreseeable future. IMHO watch what happens in September.
Testing is nice and all, but unless we are willing to go to extreme measures in isolating the ones afflicted it's not hugely effective and in fact is simply a reaction to something that has already happened. Consider this: The negative test you got today means as of today. There's always tomorrow. Even tagging someone with a "safe" badge as some authorities are suggesting does not mean they don't become a carrier next week. Whack-a-mole isn't a cure.
Here in the US as it is in much of the West accustomed to extensive freedoms, we would not accept being fitted with an ankle or wrist tracker to ensure we didn't leave our homes as Singapore is now attempting to do. We would not accept military units blocking our travels out of big cities like New York and Chicago, as China would do. Heck, most of the commenters here are disinclined to even opt into an anonymous contact tracking app so that we can be made aware of a need to be tested as South Koreans find perfectly acceptable.
The only moderately effective preventive measure as it stands now is social distancing, made more effective when combined with mouth coverings and self-isolation. The viable long-term solution will be a reliable vaccine, and that search is underway worldwide. In the meantime our measures are only reactionary, intended to slow the spread and allow for our health services to keep up, and hopefully permit some economic activities to resume on a local or better yet regional basis. That's something China is just now attempting to do after 6 months of aggressive travel control. Some there are warning even that is too fast.
Apple and Google are working on a Bluetooth contact tracing system that could help track and possibly reduce the spread of COVID-19. But security experts that AppleInsider have spoken to express concerns about privacy and execution, which could undermine its effectivenessompletely anonymous.
As an example of how this can be leveraged by a bad actor, former Federal Trade Commission technologist Ashkan Soltani gave an example of a so-called "linkage attack" which could reveal the identity of someone who is COVID-19 positive.
"By design, your smartphone will broadcast a rotating unique identifier (via Bluetooth) every few minutes (the rolling proximity identifier) to anyone within range," Soltani told AppleInsider. That means there's no granular controls for users to avoid this, beyond not using the system.
Someone with a Bluetooth sniffer and a video camera could collect pairs of photos and rolling identifiers in a public place, Soltani explains. If one of those people tests positive for COVID-19, the attacker could pair their diagnosis keys with the pictures and rolling identifiers."
Seriously? That's considered a real and rational threat, a guy hiding in the bushes taking pictures of everyone passing by while sniffing their rotating bluetooth identifier, then cataloging those thousands of picture and timestamps and looking thru them hoping to find a match if someone tests positive? O.M.G.
If I ever test positive I won't be trying to hide it from anyone who might need to know in order to protect their own health.
These are indeed strange times we are living through. I thought Hell would freeze over before I ever agreed with gatorguy. Apparently I was wrong.
I usually agree with almost all of gatorguy's posts. But off late, I am unable to agree with him on anything related to COVID-19 and US government's handling of it. I am with GeorgeBMac on those arguments and tend to agree with StrangeDays as well. Yup, Strange Days indeed.
We all fear what we don't understand, and if we can't control it the tendency is to attack it. It's human nature. The best defense is knowledge.
FWIW I don't agree with the way the current administration has generally handled it. Extremely inconsistent positions, no clearly defined plan, little in the way of reassurance that if we all cooperate we can get thru this. Our leadership is lacking and it's the wrong time to have a President with a divisive personality. It does not reassure me at all.
With that said there's nothing that any country can do to eliminate the danger of infection. Even those countries where it was claimed early on that they "had it all under control" continue to see resurgence after resurgence and will for the foreseeable future. IMHO watch what happens in September.
Testing is nice and all, but unless we are willing to go to extreme measures in isolating the ones afflicted it's not hugely effective and in fact is simply a reaction to something that has already happened. Consider this: The negative test you got today means as of today. There's always tomorrow. Even tagging someone with a "safe" badge as some authorities are suggesting does not mean they don't become a carrier next week. Whack-a-mole isn't a cure.
Here in the US as it is in much of the West accustomed to extensive freedoms, we would not accept being fitted with an ankle or wrist tracker to ensure we didn't leave our homes as Singapore is now attempting to do. We would not accept military units blocking our travels out of big cities like New York and Chicago, as China would do. Heck, most of the commenters here are disinclined to even opt into an anonymous contact tracking app so that we can be made aware of a need to be tested as South Koreans find perfectly acceptable.
The only moderately effective preventive measure as it stands now is social distancing, made more effective when combined with mouth coverings and self-isolation. The viable long-term solution will be a reliable vaccine, and that search is underway worldwide. In the meantime our measures are only reactionary, intended to slow the spread and allow for our health services to keep up, and hopefully permit some economic activities to resume on a local or better yet regional basis. That's something China is just now attempting to do after 6 months of aggressive travel control. Some there are warning even that is too fast.
Nonsense... Dangerous nonsense. Nonsense that will kill people
You say "there's nothing any country can do". That's bullshit. A number of countries have taken effective steps (Social distancing, testing and contact tracing) and effectively managed the virus. Did they eliminate every case? No, of course not. But neither have they stood by worrying about the stock market and watched over 35,000 people die. Their economies barely blipped and a small fraction of what it is here have been infected much less died.
And, you justify that nonsense saying "they've had resurgence". That's more nonsense. Almost entirely any resurgence has come from opening up borders and letting others in from countries like the U.S. who failed to contain the virus -- just as will happen here as people travel from state to state and enter the country from hotpoints.
You say you would not accept a tracker to insure that you stayed isolated if infected. In other words, you are saying that you would prefer to walk free infecting and, quite literally, killing others. That's murder and no, it's not OK -- even in Trump's America.
And saying that social distancing is the only effective measure is not just not true. It's not just a lie, it's stupid. Social Distancing was never meant to be long term and it was only ever meant to slow it down to keep from overwhelming the healthcare system. Now you say its the ONLY protection. That's bullshit. Testing and contact tracing not only needed to be done in the beginning, they need to be done to wind it down. Otherwise we get right back into the exponential infection rates we've been seeing where 1 person wondering the streets and stores infects 2 and those 2 infect 4 and those 4 infect 8, etc.....
Not only has testing and contact tracing been proven to work but every international expert agrees that it must be part of the solution. The only ones who disagree are the crazed Trumpers walking around waving their AR15s screaming Liberate Michigan!
To put it simply, I don't want to die and I don't want anybody else to die because you are foolish enough to believe the propaganda spouted by right wing media and the lies coming from Trump. Trump totally blew the testing and he doesn't want to wait to get it ramped up. Instead he wants to just reopen the economy regardless of how many have to die painful deaths because, if he doesn't, he knows he'll lose in November.
So no, I'm not willing to die either because you don't want to be quarantined and tracked nor to help re-elect Trump. Neither of those things is worth a single American life. To suggest otherwise is to betray our country and its people.
Apple and Google are working on a Bluetooth contact tracing system that could help track and possibly reduce the spread of COVID-19. But security experts that AppleInsider have spoken to express concerns about privacy and execution, which could undermine its effectivenessompletely anonymous.
As an example of how this can be leveraged by a bad actor, former Federal Trade Commission technologist Ashkan Soltani gave an example of a so-called "linkage attack" which could reveal the identity of someone who is COVID-19 positive.
"By design, your smartphone will broadcast a rotating unique identifier (via Bluetooth) every few minutes (the rolling proximity identifier) to anyone within range," Soltani told AppleInsider. That means there's no granular controls for users to avoid this, beyond not using the system.
Someone with a Bluetooth sniffer and a video camera could collect pairs of photos and rolling identifiers in a public place, Soltani explains. If one of those people tests positive for COVID-19, the attacker could pair their diagnosis keys with the pictures and rolling identifiers."
Seriously? That's considered a real and rational threat, a guy hiding in the bushes taking pictures of everyone passing by while sniffing their rotating bluetooth identifier, then cataloging those thousands of picture and timestamps and looking thru them hoping to find a match if someone tests positive? O.M.G.
If I ever test positive I won't be trying to hide it from anyone who might need to know in order to protect their own health.
These are indeed strange times we are living through. I thought Hell would freeze over before I ever agreed with gatorguy. Apparently I was wrong.
I usually agree with almost all of gatorguy's posts. But off late, I am unable to agree with him on anything related to COVID-19 and US government's handling of it. I am with GeorgeBMac on those arguments and tend to agree with StrangeDays as well. Yup, Strange Days indeed.
We all fear what we don't understand, and if we can't control it the tendency is to attack it. It's human nature. The best defense is knowledge.
FWIW I don't agree with the way the current administration has generally handled it. Extremely inconsistent positions, no clearly defined plan, little in the way of reassurance that if we all cooperate we can get thru this. Our leadership is lacking and it's the wrong time to have a President with a divisive personality. It does not reassure me at all.
With that said there's nothing that any country can do to eliminate the danger of infection. Even those countries where it was claimed early on that they "had it all under control" continue to see resurgence after resurgence and will for the foreseeable future. IMHO watch what happens in September.
Testing is nice and all, but unless we are willing to go to extreme measures in isolating the ones afflicted it's not hugely effective and in fact is simply a reaction to something that has already happened. Consider this: The negative test you got today means as of today. There's always tomorrow. Even tagging someone with a "safe" badge as some authorities are suggesting does not mean they don't become a carrier next week. Whack-a-mole isn't a cure.
Here in the US as it is in much of the West accustomed to extensive freedoms, we would not accept being fitted with an ankle or wrist tracker to ensure we didn't leave our homes as Singapore is now attempting to do. We would not accept military units blocking our travels out of big cities like New York and Chicago, as China would do. Heck, most of the commenters here are disinclined to even opt into an anonymous contact tracking app so that we can be made aware of a need to be tested as South Koreans find perfectly acceptable.
The only moderately effective preventive measure as it stands now is social distancing, made more effective when combined with mouth coverings and self-isolation. The viable long-term solution will be a reliable vaccine, and that search is underway worldwide. In the meantime our measures are only reactionary, intended to slow the spread and allow for our health services to keep up, and hopefully permit some economic activities to resume on a local or better yet regional basis. That's something China is just now attempting to do after 6 months of aggressive travel control. Some there are warning even that is too fast.
Nonsense... Dangerous nonsense. Nonsense that will kill people
You say "there's nothing any country can do". That's bullshit. A number of countries have taken effective steps (Social distancing, testing and contact tracing) and effectively managed the virus.
You say you would not accept a tracker to insure that you stayed isolated if infected.
And saying that social distancing is the only effective measure is not just not true. It's not just a lie, it's stupid. Social Distancing was never meant to be long term and it was only ever meant to slow it down to keep from overwhelming the healthcare system.
Not only has testing and contact tracing been proven to work but every international expert agrees that it must be part of the solution.
George, now you're almost 100% agreeing with me while making believe you're not. Read what I wrote again and stop clipping out only the parts of sentences for your own purposes. I didn't say there was nothing any country can do and you know that. What I said was " there's nothing that any country can do to eliminate the danger of infection" then go on to say the same thing I did.
I didn't say I would not accept a tracker, in fact exactly the opposite and several times in several threads so far. I'll be opting in day one and would never hide it if infected just as I've told you before. Now you want me to believe you didn't know or simply forgot what my position is? That's highly unlikely. You read everything I post.
I also said social distancing and testing was only a stopgap, a game of whack-a-mole, and you want to proclaim you came up with it and I said something else?
You seem so full of hate that over time you become more and more willing to make stuff up about what was said, then go on to argue that the statement you made up and that the poster never said is dangerous, or stupid, or whatever, and that person is thus a Trumper or a "right-winger" or you use some other term of derision. You make believe you're the only rational voice in the house only by putting words in someone else's mouth.
Something about the way you are conducting yourself is seriously amiss IMHO, very dishonest. For someone who puts so much work into getting everyone to listen to you about the dangers of Trump, and your beliefs about the "fair and honest Democrats" and the "misunderstood Chinese", you certainly have a special talent for alienating them. Treating others around you in a dishonest manner is not the way to win support.
IMO If the US electorate manages to install a new administration in this year's election it will not be due in any part to your efforts but in spite of them.
Apple and Google are working on a Bluetooth contact tracing system that could help track and possibly reduce the spread of COVID-19. But security experts that AppleInsider have spoken to express concerns about privacy and execution, which could undermine its effectivenessompletely anonymous.
As an example of how this can be leveraged by a bad actor, former Federal Trade Commission technologist Ashkan Soltani gave an example of a so-called "linkage attack" which could reveal the identity of someone who is COVID-19 positive.
"By design, your smartphone will broadcast a rotating unique identifier (via Bluetooth) every few minutes (the rolling proximity identifier) to anyone within range," Soltani told AppleInsider. That means there's no granular controls for users to avoid this, beyond not using the system.
Someone with a Bluetooth sniffer and a video camera could collect pairs of photos and rolling identifiers in a public place, Soltani explains. If one of those people tests positive for COVID-19, the attacker could pair their diagnosis keys with the pictures and rolling identifiers."
Seriously? That's considered a real and rational threat, a guy hiding in the bushes taking pictures of everyone passing by while sniffing their rotating bluetooth identifier, then cataloging those thousands of picture and timestamps and looking thru them hoping to find a match if someone tests positive? O.M.G.
If I ever test positive I won't be trying to hide it from anyone who might need to know in order to protect their own health.
These are indeed strange times we are living through. I thought Hell would freeze over before I ever agreed with gatorguy. Apparently I was wrong.
I usually agree with almost all of gatorguy's posts. But off late, I am unable to agree with him on anything related to COVID-19 and US government's handling of it. I am with GeorgeBMac on those arguments and tend to agree with StrangeDays as well. Yup, Strange Days indeed.
We all fear what we don't understand, and if we can't control it the tendency is to attack it. It's human nature. The best defense is knowledge.
FWIW I don't agree with the way the current administration has generally handled it. Extremely inconsistent positions, no clearly defined plan, little in the way of reassurance that if we all cooperate we can get thru this. Our leadership is lacking and it's the wrong time to have a President with a divisive personality. It does not reassure me at all.
With that said there's nothing that any country can do to eliminate the danger of infection. Even those countries where it was claimed early on that they "had it all under control" continue to see resurgence after resurgence and will for the foreseeable future. IMHO watch what happens in September.
Testing is nice and all, but unless we are willing to go to extreme measures in isolating the ones afflicted it's not hugely effective and in fact is simply a reaction to something that has already happened. Consider this: The negative test you got today means as of today. There's always tomorrow. Even tagging someone with a "safe" badge as some authorities are suggesting does not mean they don't become a carrier next week. Whack-a-mole isn't a cure.
Here in the US as it is in much of the West accustomed to extensive freedoms, we would not accept being fitted with an ankle or wrist tracker to ensure we didn't leave our homes as Singapore is now attempting to do. We would not accept military units blocking our travels out of big cities like New York and Chicago, as China would do. Heck, most of the commenters here are disinclined to even opt into an anonymous contact tracking app so that we can be made aware of a need to be tested as South Koreans find perfectly acceptable.
The only moderately effective preventive measure as it stands now is social distancing, made more effective when combined with mouth coverings and self-isolation. The viable long-term solution will be a reliable vaccine, and that search is underway worldwide. In the meantime our measures are only reactionary, intended to slow the spread and allow for our health services to keep up, and hopefully permit some economic activities to resume on a local or better yet regional basis. That's something China is just now attempting to do after 6 months of aggressive travel control. Some there are warning even that is too fast.
Well said.
I watch nearly every daily report,
not to hear Trump, but to hear Doctors Birx and Giroir, as their
technical info fascinates me. And they seem IMO to be the least affected
by this daily political circus shiteshow. I check on this site http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/ for the normalized graphs (by population), which puts in perspective the real situation on a country-by-country basis.
Apple and Google are working on a Bluetooth contact tracing system that could help track and possibly reduce the spread of COVID-19. But security experts that AppleInsider have spoken to express concerns about privacy and execution, which could undermine its effectivenessompletely anonymous.
As an example of how this can be leveraged by a bad actor, former Federal Trade Commission technologist Ashkan Soltani gave an example of a so-called "linkage attack" which could reveal the identity of someone who is COVID-19 positive.
"By design, your smartphone will broadcast a rotating unique identifier (via Bluetooth) every few minutes (the rolling proximity identifier) to anyone within range," Soltani told AppleInsider. That means there's no granular controls for users to avoid this, beyond not using the system.
Someone with a Bluetooth sniffer and a video camera could collect pairs of photos and rolling identifiers in a public place, Soltani explains. If one of those people tests positive for COVID-19, the attacker could pair their diagnosis keys with the pictures and rolling identifiers."
Seriously? That's considered a real and rational threat, a guy hiding in the bushes taking pictures of everyone passing by while sniffing their rotating bluetooth identifier, then cataloging those thousands of picture and timestamps and looking thru them hoping to find a match if someone tests positive? O.M.G.
If I ever test positive I won't be trying to hide it from anyone who might need to know in order to protect their own health.
These are indeed strange times we are living through. I thought Hell would freeze over before I ever agreed with gatorguy. Apparently I was wrong.
I usually agree with almost all of gatorguy's posts. But off late, I am unable to agree with him on anything related to COVID-19 and US government's handling of it. I am with GeorgeBMac on those arguments and tend to agree with StrangeDays as well. Yup, Strange Days indeed.
We all fear what we don't understand, and if we can't control it the tendency is to attack it. It's human nature. The best defense is knowledge.
FWIW I don't agree with the way the current administration has generally handled it. Extremely inconsistent positions, no clearly defined plan, little in the way of reassurance that if we all cooperate we can get thru this. Our leadership is lacking and it's the wrong time to have a President with a divisive personality. It does not reassure me at all.
With that said there's nothing that any country can do to eliminate the danger of infection. Even those countries where it was claimed early on that they "had it all under control" continue to see resurgence after resurgence and will for the foreseeable future. IMHO watch what happens in September.
Testing is nice and all, but unless we are willing to go to extreme measures in isolating the ones afflicted it's not hugely effective and in fact is simply a reaction to something that has already happened. Consider this: The negative test you got today means as of today. There's always tomorrow. Even tagging someone with a "safe" badge as some authorities are suggesting does not mean they don't become a carrier next week. Whack-a-mole isn't a cure.
Here in the US as it is in much of the West accustomed to extensive freedoms, we would not accept being fitted with an ankle or wrist tracker to ensure we didn't leave our homes as Singapore is now attempting to do. We would not accept military units blocking our travels out of big cities like New York and Chicago, as China would do. Heck, most of the commenters here are disinclined to even opt into an anonymous contact tracking app so that we can be made aware of a need to be tested as South Koreans find perfectly acceptable.
The only moderately effective preventive measure as it stands now is social distancing, made more effective when combined with mouth coverings and self-isolation. The viable long-term solution will be a reliable vaccine, and that search is underway worldwide. In the meantime our measures are only reactionary, intended to slow the spread and allow for our health services to keep up, and hopefully permit some economic activities to resume on a local or better yet regional basis. That's something China is just now attempting to do after 6 months of aggressive travel control. Some there are warning even that is too fast.
Nonsense... Dangerous nonsense. Nonsense that will kill people
You say "there's nothing any country can do". That's bullshit. A number of countries have taken effective steps (Social distancing, testing and contact tracing) and effectively managed the virus.
You say you would not accept a tracker to insure that you stayed isolated if infected.
And saying that social distancing is the only effective measure is not just not true. It's not just a lie, it's stupid. Social Distancing was never meant to be long term and it was only ever meant to slow it down to keep from overwhelming the healthcare system.
Not only has testing and contact tracing been proven to work but every international expert agrees that it must be part of the solution.
George, now you're almost 100% agreeing with me while making believe you're not. Read what I wrote again and stop clipping out only the parts of sentences for your own purposes. I didn't say there was nothing any country can do and you know that. What I said was " there's nothing that any country can do to eliminate the danger of infection" then go on to say the same thing I did.
I didn't say I would not accept a tracker, in fact exactly the opposite and several times in several threads so far. I'll be opting in day one and would never hide it if infected just as I've told you before. Now you want me to believe you didn't know or simply forgot what my position is? That's highly unlikely. You read everything I post.
I also said social distancing and testing was only a stopgap, a game of whack-a-mole, and you want to proclaim you came up with it and I said something else?
You seem so full of hate that over time you become more and more willing to make stuff up about what was said, then go on to argue that the statement you made up and that the poster never said is dangerous, or stupid, or whatever, and that person is thus a Trumper or a "right-winger" or you use some other term of derision. You make believe you're the only rational voice in the house only by putting words in someone else's mouth.
Something about the way you are conducting yourself is seriously amiss IMHO, very dishonest. For someone who puts so much work into getting everyone to listen to you about the dangers of Trump, and your beliefs about the "fair and honest Democrats" and the "misunderstood Chinese", you certainly have a special talent for alienating them. Treating others around you in a dishonest manner is not the way to win support.
IMO If the US electorate manages to install a new administration in this year's election it will not be due in any part to your efforts but in spite of them.
LOL... Now you claim you didn't say what you said -- or it didn't mean what you meant. And then go on to hurl personal insults.
Not only did you argue against extensive testing and contact tracing and quarantine here, but that has been your history. So, I'll stick to what I said.
The one thing I won't do is resort to personal insults. I'll let your words speak for themselves.
Apple and Google are working on a Bluetooth contact tracing system that could help track and possibly reduce the spread of COVID-19. But security experts that AppleInsider have spoken to express concerns about privacy and execution, which could undermine its effectivenessompletely anonymous.
As an example of how this can be leveraged by a bad actor, former Federal Trade Commission technologist Ashkan Soltani gave an example of a so-called "linkage attack" which could reveal the identity of someone who is COVID-19 positive.
"By design, your smartphone will broadcast a rotating unique identifier (via Bluetooth) every few minutes (the rolling proximity identifier) to anyone within range," Soltani told AppleInsider. That means there's no granular controls for users to avoid this, beyond not using the system.
Someone with a Bluetooth sniffer and a video camera could collect pairs of photos and rolling identifiers in a public place, Soltani explains. If one of those people tests positive for COVID-19, the attacker could pair their diagnosis keys with the pictures and rolling identifiers."
Seriously? That's considered a real and rational threat, a guy hiding in the bushes taking pictures of everyone passing by while sniffing their rotating bluetooth identifier, then cataloging those thousands of picture and timestamps and looking thru them hoping to find a match if someone tests positive? O.M.G.
If I ever test positive I won't be trying to hide it from anyone who might need to know in order to protect their own health.
Whose to say they are going sit around and expose themselves. I’d imagine it would be more feasible to setup a series of phones that could be well placed and remoted to to download the database of ids and pictures.
Install the malicious software that takes a picture when it detects a new identifier close by, turn on the Bluetooth contact tracking, give the phone a weather resistant case, maybe an extra battery or solar cell, duct tape it to a tree or something and be done. You’ve got pictures, gps coordinates where they were taken, and the identifiers, which all could de handled over a cell connection or piggybacking over some open/public wifi.
Apple and Google are working on a Bluetooth contact tracing system that could help track and possibly reduce the spread of COVID-19. But security experts that AppleInsider have spoken to express concerns about privacy and execution, which could undermine its effectivenessompletely anonymous.
As an example of how this can be leveraged by a bad actor, former Federal Trade Commission technologist Ashkan Soltani gave an example of a so-called "linkage attack" which could reveal the identity of someone who is COVID-19 positive.
"By design, your smartphone will broadcast a rotating unique identifier (via Bluetooth) every few minutes (the rolling proximity identifier) to anyone within range," Soltani told AppleInsider. That means there's no granular controls for users to avoid this, beyond not using the system.
Someone with a Bluetooth sniffer and a video camera could collect pairs of photos and rolling identifiers in a public place, Soltani explains. If one of those people tests positive for COVID-19, the attacker could pair their diagnosis keys with the pictures and rolling identifiers."
Seriously? That's considered a real and rational threat, a guy hiding in the bushes taking pictures of everyone passing by while sniffing their rotating bluetooth identifier, then cataloging those thousands of picture and timestamps and looking thru them hoping to find a match if someone tests positive? O.M.G.
If I ever test positive I won't be trying to hide it from anyone who might need to know in order to protect their own health.
I have yet to see a peep about the FAR more likely attack: People trolling the system claiming to be infected when they're not, sending alerts to dozens or hundreds (or more) of people they've been near in the last two weeks.
It’s already been covered that testing confirmation is required.
Good to know, but covered where? How does confirmation work? I've not found mention of that in any article I've read.
Apple and Google are working on a Bluetooth contact tracing system that could help track and possibly reduce the spread of COVID-19. But security experts that AppleInsider have spoken to express concerns about privacy and execution, which could undermine its effectivenessompletely anonymous.
As an example of how this can be leveraged by a bad actor, former Federal Trade Commission technologist Ashkan Soltani gave an example of a so-called "linkage attack" which could reveal the identity of someone who is COVID-19 positive.
"By design, your smartphone will broadcast a rotating unique identifier (via Bluetooth) every few minutes (the rolling proximity identifier) to anyone within range," Soltani told AppleInsider. That means there's no granular controls for users to avoid this, beyond not using the system.
Someone with a Bluetooth sniffer and a video camera could collect pairs of photos and rolling identifiers in a public place, Soltani explains. If one of those people tests positive for COVID-19, the attacker could pair their diagnosis keys with the pictures and rolling identifiers."
Seriously? That's considered a real and rational threat, a guy hiding in the bushes taking pictures of everyone passing by while sniffing their rotating bluetooth identifier, then cataloging those thousands of picture and timestamps and looking thru them hoping to find a match if someone tests positive? O.M.G.
If I ever test positive I won't be trying to hide it from anyone who might need to know in order to protect their own health.
I have yet to see a peep about the FAR more likely attack: People trolling the system claiming to be infected when they're not, sending alerts to dozens or hundreds (or more) of people they've been near in the last two weeks.
It’s already been covered that testing confirmation is required.
Good to know, but covered where? How does confirmation work? I've not found mention of that in any article I've read.
Singapore's TraceTogether app which is developed by Government Technology Agency (GovTech) and based on BlueTrace protocol, now open-sourced and available on tech.gov.sg. It will be great if Apple is able to reach out to GovTech and explore how the now open-sourced BlueTrace can be better optimised or merge into Apple-Google's API so that it is a win-win for all 3 parties, and perhaps the first real-world implementation in a nation ready to benefit from the 'run in background' mode. Now is a good time to do so as Singapore is experiencing an increase in cases which are difficult to trace.
While Apple-Google API is facing challenges in several nations, Singapore is a ready-to-tap nation and right time. @Apple, please kindly see how you can help.
Singapore's app is not as privacy-centric, individuals are identifiable.
It was not perfect given the restrictions before Apple-Google API was even announce being work on. And the only individual identifiable data is the contact number. If it has passed Apple app review and launched to public, I think it is not too bad unlike app from some other countries (significant surveillance like, even location data).
Singapore's TraceTogether app which is developed by Government Technology Agency (GovTech) and based on BlueTrace protocol, now open-sourced and available on tech.gov.sg. It will be great if Apple is able to reach out to GovTech and explore how the now open-sourced BlueTrace can be better optimised or merge into Apple-Google's API so that it is a win-win for all 3 parties, and perhaps the first real-world implementation in a nation ready to benefit from the 'run in background' mode. Now is a good time to do so as Singapore is experiencing an increase in cases which are difficult to trace.
While Apple-Google API is facing challenges in several nations, Singapore is a ready-to-tap nation and right time. @Apple, please kindly see how you can help.
Singapore's app is not as privacy-centric, individuals are identifiable.
It was not perfect given the restrictions before Apple-Google API was even announce being work on. And the only individual identifiable data is the contact number. If it has passed Apple app review and launched to public, I think it is not too bad unlike app from some other countries (significant surveillance like, even location data).
No one is saying it didn't pass the Apple smell test. It is still a fact that the design of Apple/Google exposure notification is more private. If that's enough to tilt a suspicious person into trusting it rather than not taking part at all then it's a big win.
Comments
I usually agree with almost all of gatorguy's posts. But off late, I am unable to agree with him on anything related to COVID-19 and US government's handling of it. I am with GeorgeBMac on those arguments and tend to agree with StrangeDays as well. Yup, Strange Days indeed.
FWIW I don't agree with the way the current administration has generally handled it. Extremely inconsistent positions, no clearly defined plan, little in the way of reassurance that if we all cooperate we can get thru this. Our leadership is lacking and it's the wrong time to have a President with a divisive personality. It does not reassure me at all.
With that said there's nothing that any country can do to eliminate the danger of infection. Even those countries where it was claimed early on that they "had it all under control" continue to see resurgence after resurgence and will for the foreseeable future. IMHO watch what happens in September.
Testing is nice and all, but unless we are willing to go to extreme measures in isolating the ones afflicted it's not hugely effective and in fact is simply a reaction to something that has already happened. Consider this: The negative test you got today means as of today. There's always tomorrow. Even tagging someone with a "safe" badge as some authorities are suggesting does not mean they don't become a carrier next week. Whack-a-mole isn't a cure.
Here in the US as it is in much of the West accustomed to extensive freedoms, we would not accept being fitted with an ankle or wrist tracker to ensure we didn't leave our homes as Singapore is now attempting to do. We would not accept military units blocking our travels out of big cities like New York and Chicago, as China would do. Heck, most of the commenters here are disinclined to even opt into an anonymous contact tracking app so that we can be made aware of a need to be tested as South Koreans find perfectly acceptable.
The only moderately effective preventive measure as it stands now is social distancing, made more effective when combined with mouth coverings and self-isolation. The viable long-term solution will be a reliable vaccine, and that search is underway worldwide. In the meantime our measures are only reactionary, intended to slow the spread and allow for our health services to keep up, and hopefully permit some economic activities to resume on a local or better yet regional basis. That's something China is just now attempting to do after 6 months of aggressive travel control. Some there are warning even that is too fast.
And, you justify that nonsense saying "they've had resurgence". That's more nonsense. Almost entirely any resurgence has come from opening up borders and letting others in from countries like the U.S. who failed to contain the virus -- just as will happen here as people travel from state to state and enter the country from hotpoints.
Social Distancing was never meant to be long term and it was only ever meant to slow it down to keep from overwhelming the healthcare system. Now you say its the ONLY protection. That's bullshit. Testing and contact tracing not only needed to be done in the beginning, they need to be done to wind it down. Otherwise we get right back into the exponential infection rates we've been seeing where 1 person wondering the streets and stores infects 2 and those 2 infect 4 and those 4 infect 8, etc.....
So no, I'm not willing to die either because you don't want to be quarantined and tracked nor to help re-elect Trump. Neither of those things is worth a single American life. To suggest otherwise is to betray our country and its people.
I didn't say there was nothing any country can do and you know that. What I said was " there's nothing that any country can do to eliminate the danger of infection" then go on to say the same thing I did.
I didn't say I would not accept a tracker, in fact exactly the opposite and several times in several threads so far. I'll be opting in day one and would never hide it if infected just as I've told you before. Now you want me to believe you didn't know or simply forgot what my position is? That's highly unlikely. You read everything I post.
I also said social distancing and testing was only a stopgap, a game of whack-a-mole, and you want to proclaim you came up with it and I said something else?
You seem so full of hate that over time you become more and more willing to make stuff up about what was said, then go on to argue that the statement you made up and that the poster never said is dangerous, or stupid, or whatever, and that person is thus a Trumper or a "right-winger" or you use some other term of derision. You make believe you're the only rational voice in the house only by putting words in someone else's mouth.
Something about the way you are conducting yourself is seriously amiss IMHO, very dishonest. For someone who puts so much work into getting everyone to listen to you about the dangers of Trump, and your beliefs about the "fair and honest Democrats" and the "misunderstood Chinese", you certainly have a special talent for alienating them. Treating others around you in a dishonest manner is not the way to win support.
IMO If the US electorate manages to install a new administration in this year's election it will not be due in any part to your efforts but in spite of them.
Install the malicious software that takes a picture when it detects a new identifier close by, turn on the Bluetooth contact tracking, give the phone a weather resistant case, maybe an extra battery or solar cell, duct tape it to a tree or something and be done. You’ve got pictures, gps coordinates where they were taken, and the identifiers, which all could de handled over a cell connection or piggybacking over some open/public wifi.
Good to know, but covered where? How does confirmation work? I've not found mention of that in any article I've read.
https://www.wired.com/story/apple-google-contact-tracing-strengths-weaknesses/
First party explanations are easy to find. They were reported all over the internet blogs a few days ago.