This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
Like it was insanity to get into the mature, cutthroat, competitive cellphone business where the ‘big boys’ had everything under control and the market was set? That insanity? By the way, whatever happened to the ‘big boys’ that had the market sewed up? You know, big boys like Nokia, Blackberry, Microsoft? Or the insanity of producing a digital watch when cheap was the name of the game? How could Apple possibly succeed there?
Sorry but you walked right into this. Don’t EVER count Apple out on anything. Don’t EVER say Apple is insane for wanting to explore a market. You’ll wind up with egg on your face every time.
Not under Tim. Look at how long does it take to ship AirTile, AirPower, AppleHeadphone, AirPodsPro Lite, AppleGlasses, iTV, MacBook 14”, iMac, HomePod 2020 ?
Things of abysmal complexity compared to entering a new industry.
Apple under Cook has completely turned into a immense repetitive tech bureaucracy (yes plus services that disperse focus even more)
By the time they have their first car every other carmaker has 100x the experience.
Apple’s only remaining chance is to buy one.
Cook by then will be a full-time University Chairman or politician - which is where his heart is.
You're claiming things were more smooth under Steve Jobs? Jobs was notorious for making public claims that never came to pass or took much longer than stated, but you bring up things like AirTile which have never once been stated by Apple as a product.
I am not saying that Steve is perfect.
I am saying that Steve, like Elon, had the character and the endeavour to get things moving, to recruit talent, manage, innovate in a disruptive manner.
Unlike Cook, who in Tesla would be another grey clerk busy with Airpods (or some accessory of similar significance) - because that is his scope of contribution to the tech world.
Please let him be a full-time chairman at the Chinese Tsinghua state university, because that’s where is heart is. And let someone else intellectually save Apple from becoming the largest repetitive bureaucracy on the planet - whether the financially successful or not - but uninspiring, and intellectually void. Unable to get a charging mat that only charges its own gear launched.
Apple simply can't do it. They don't have the chops. If they could, it would have been done by now. SAD, but true. Thank goodness there is Tesla! Apple is dead.
I can guiarantee these cars will make Teslas look like crap. Say goodby to the times when every car looked different. Expect the market to be flooded with knockoffs.
Tesla has a lot of work to do in the Quality of Build Department.
Their cars are engineered down to a price. Although understandable, some
of the decisions are mad. My neighbour has owned a Model 3 for 7 months
now and wishes he had not got rid of his Model S.
The very limited range of colours make them all seem the same. Around here, almost all of them are Black. Boring! Boring! Boring!
I am tired of hearing about how Apple is gradually progressing towards development of its own car, but never actually confirming it. Now I know Apple will never confirm unless the car is completely ready, but it's been so long since we first heard the rumours, so now this kind of news only sounds depressing.
This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
I can guiarantee these cars will make Teslas look like crap. Say goodby to the times when every car looked different. Expect the market to be flooded with knockoffs.
Tesla has a lot of work to do in the Quality of Build Department.
Their cars are engineered down to a price. Although understandable, some
of the decisions are mad. My neighbour has owned a Model 3 for 7 months
now and wishes he had not got rid of his Model S.
The very limited range of colours make them all seem the same. Around here, almost all of them are Black. Boring! Boring! Boring!
No to mention the design. Every time I see the most common model I think ugh!
I can guiarantee these cars will make Teslas look like crap. Say goodby to the times when every car looked different. Expect the market to be flooded with knockoffs.
Tesla has a lot of work to do in the Quality of Build Department.
Their cars are engineered down to a price. Although understandable, some
of the decisions are mad. My neighbour has owned a Model 3 for 7 months
now and wishes he had not got rid of his Model S.
The very limited range of colours make them all seem the same. Around here, almost all of them are Black. Boring! Boring! Boring!
No to mention the design. Every time I see the most common model I think ugh!
Wait, didn’t the experts and self-appointed engineers tell us a couple of years ago that project Titan was dead and buried?
I have no problem saying that I will be astonished if Apple ever actually releases a car. As a development project for systems to go into other people’s cars, fine. But I don’t see Apple having the expertise in making things like trunk latches, or seat mechanisms, etc.
Why not? What expertise did any automaker have before they were automakers? What about Apple do you find so incompetent as a company that they can't figure out how to design, who to hire, or what vendor to buy from for something as mundane as a trunk latch?
Not incompetent, inexperienced. Damler, Ford, and the rest have decades of experience designing these things. They know what works. An engineer with one of the established companies can suggest an idea that’s new to them, and one of the old hands can say, “we tried that in ‘93 and the customers didn’t like it for X, Y, and Z reasons.” Apple won’t have that. And I know the standard response is “but they didn’t know anything about phones. But the iPhone was the descendant of the iPod, which was the descendant of the Newton. Apple had been making devices like that before, even if they weren’t that exact one. Apple has no experience with drivetrains, and suspensions, and wipers, and door hinges. Neither did Dihatsu or Kia, or Honda, and each made a decade of crap before they figured out how to do it. And they each hired some of the best engineers in the business too. It isn’t just about engineering. It’s institutional knowledge. Apple has no institutional knowledge about making vehicles. That’s why I don’t think they will ever produce a car. The backlash of an Apple car tarnishing the brand for a decade isn’t something I think they would be willing to endure.
An interesting viewpoint that ignores the Apple Watch, and makes no mention of Apple’s interest in preventative medicine and Apple Energy which sells power to the national grid. It also ignores the fact that Apple had no experience of music players before launching the iPod, and no experience of selling music online before iTunes.
You also tried to claim that the iPhone was the descendant of the iPod. That is also incorrect. When the iPhone was launched, the iPod still used the click-wheel interface, didn’t run apps and couldn’t make phone calls. Apple had no experience of dealing with networks, which is what prompted similar comments to yours from industry leaders. The modern iPod is basically an iPhone that can’t make phone calls: the iPod is now a descendant of the iPhone.
Time and time again, Apple has proved “institutional knowledge” doesn’t actually matter.
Actually, institutional “luggage” may matter even more. This is holding most of the existing car makers back today. This is also the main reason why their puny attempts at digitalizing the car result in nothing but piggyback add-on solutions …at best. I think Apple could think different just because they have no prior “institutional knowledge” here.
This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
Wait, didn’t the experts and self-appointed engineers tell us a couple of years ago that project Titan was dead and buried?
I have no problem saying that I will be astonished if Apple ever actually releases a car. As a development project for systems to go into other people’s cars, fine. But I don’t see Apple having the expertise in making things like trunk latches, or seat mechanisms, etc.
Did they have office building expertise before taking on HQ? No. What they did was design some portions and features and hire out for others. Pretty easy to imagine the same.
This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
Like it was insanity to get into the mature, cutthroat, competitive cellphone business where the ‘big boys’ had everything under control and the market was set? That insanity? By the way, whatever happened to the ‘big boys’ that had the market sewed up? You know, big boys like Nokia, Blackberry, Microsoft? Or the insanity of producing a digital watch when cheap was the name of the game? How could Apple possibly succeed there?
Sorry but you walked right into this. Don’t EVER count Apple out on anything. Don’t EVER say Apple is insane for wanting to explore a market. You’ll wind up with egg on your face every time.
Not under Tim. Look at how long does it take to ship AirTile, AirPower, AppleHeadphone, AirPodsPro Lite, AppleGlasses, iTV, MacBook 14”, iMac, HomePod 2020 ?
Things of abysmal complexity compared to entering a new industry.
Apple under Cook has completely turned into a immense repetitive tech bureaucracy (yes plus services that disperse focus even more)
By the time they have their first car every other carmaker has 100x the experience.
Apple’s only remaining chance is to buy one.
Cook by then will be a full-time University Chairman or politician - which is where his heart is.
Boy, what kind of drugs do you do? They must be excellent. Apple has a steady release of AirPods, MacBooks, and iMacs. Now you’re whining about products that haven’t even been announced? Get fucking real.
Wait, didn’t the experts and self-appointed engineers tell us a couple of years ago that project Titan was dead and buried?
I have no problem saying that I will be astonished if Apple ever actually releases a car. As a development project for systems to go into other people’s cars, fine. But I don’t see Apple having the expertise in making things like trunk latches, or seat mechanisms, etc.
Why not? What expertise did any automaker have before they were automakers? What about Apple do you find so incompetent as a company that they can't figure out how to design, who to hire, or what vendor to buy from for something as mundane as a trunk latch?
Not incompetent, inexperienced. Damler, Ford, and the rest have decades of experience designing these things. They know what works. An engineer with one of the established companies can suggest an idea that’s new to them, and one of the old hands can say, “we tried that in ‘93 and the customers didn’t like it for X, Y, and Z reasons.” Apple won’t have that. And I know the standard response is “but they didn’t know anything about phones. But the iPhone was the descendant of the iPod, which was the descendant of the Newton. Apple had been making devices like that before, even if they weren’t that exact one. Apple has no experience with drivetrains, and suspensions, and wipers, and door hinges. Neither did Dihatsu or Kia, or Honda, and each made a decade of crap before they figured out how to do it. And they each hired some of the best engineers in the business too. It isn’t just about engineering. It’s institutional knowledge. Apple has no institutional knowledge about making vehicles. That’s why I don’t think they will ever produce a car. The backlash of an Apple car tarnishing the brand for a decade isn’t something I think they would be willing to endure.
“We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone,” he said. “PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.” - Palm CEO, on why Apple wasn’t going to be able to make smartphones
This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
Like it was insanity to get into the mature, cutthroat, competitive cellphone business where the ‘big boys’ had everything under control and the market was set? That insanity? By the way, whatever happened to the ‘big boys’ that had the market sewed up? You know, big boys like Nokia, Blackberry, Microsoft? Or the insanity of producing a digital watch when cheap was the name of the game? How could Apple possibly succeed there?
Sorry but you walked right into this. Don’t EVER count Apple out on anything. Don’t EVER say Apple is insane for wanting to explore a market. You’ll wind up with egg on your face every time.
Not under Tim. Look at how long does it take to ship AirTile, AirPower, AppleHeadphone, AirPodsPro Lite, AppleGlasses, iTV, MacBook 14”, iMac, HomePod 2020 ?
Things of abysmal complexity compared to entering a new industry.
Apple under Cook has completely turned into a immense repetitive tech bureaucracy (yes plus services that disperse focus even more)
By the time they have their first car every other carmaker has 100x the experience.
Apple’s only remaining chance is to buy one.
Cook by then will be a full-time University Chairman or politician - which is where his heart is.
You're claiming things were more smooth under Steve Jobs? Jobs was notorious for making public claims that never came to pass or took much longer than stated, but you bring up things like AirTile which have never once been stated by Apple as a product.
I am not saying that Steve is perfect.
I am saying that Steve, like Elon, had the character and the endeavour to get things moving, to recruit talent, manage, innovate in a disruptive manner.
Unlike Cook, who in Tesla would be another grey clerk busy with Airpods (or some accessory of similar significance) - because that is his scope of contribution to the tech world.
Please let him be a full-time chairman at the Chinese Tsinghua state university, because that’s where is heart is. And let someone else intellectually save Apple from becoming the largest repetitive bureaucracy on the planet - whether the financially successful or not - but uninspiring, and intellectually void. Unable to get a charging mat that only charges its own gear launched.
You are apparently clueless about how corporations run. The role of the CEO is typically not that of a product manager, like Jobs or Musk. That is quite unusual. The normal CEO attends to the business of the corporation, setting its tone and big picture objectives, and hiring, enabling, and empowering his executives to do their jobs. That is what Cook does and had been doing for years under Jobs.
Apple simply can't do it. They don't have the chops. If they could, it would have been done by now. SAD, but true. Thank goodness there is Tesla! Apple is dead.
Brief, lacking in detail, cliche. Troll Score: 1 of 10
Apple simply can't do it. They don't have the chops. If they could, it would have been done by now. SAD, but true. Thank goodness there is Tesla! Apple is dead.
Brief, lacking in detail, cliche. Troll Score: 1 of 10
"Apple simply can't do it. They don't have the chops. If they could, it would have been done by now. SAD, but true. Thank goodness there is Blackberry! Apple is dead." — circa 2006
This project more than anything else scares me about Apple. It's insanity to try and be in the car business. It's not even 100% clear EV's will be the only way forward.
What evidence do you offer to support your claim?
EVs don’t need to be the only way forward.
He may be thinking of hydrogen or um… hmm… Actually, hydrogen fuel cells would still make it an EV. Hydrogen ICE is less efficient.
H2 energy density is nice, but the tank size and infrastructure makes battery EVs a much simpler proposition especially as batteries continue to improve.
rotateleftbyte said: Tesla has a lot of work to do in the Quality of Build Department.
Their cars are engineered down to a price. Although understandable, some
of the decisions are mad. My neighbour has owned a Model 3 for 7 months
now and wishes he had not got rid of his Model S.
The very limited range of colours make them all seem the same. Around here, almost all of them are Black. Boring! Boring! Boring!
Heh, Boring - that's a different Musk.co
Tesla's engineering for mass production is improving - there aren't as many bizarre parts configurations in the Y as there were in the S and X
Tesla has a long way to go in the sales department. In 2019 (in the US) they sold only 10% the volume of Chevrolet and that's only one GM marque. Add in all the other brands and Tesla is still a niche manufacturer, even behind Lexus.
What's really needed is a car that the median income consumer can afford. Don't get me wrong, I love my Bolt (has CarPlay, unlike Tesla), but I could have purchased 1.5-almost 2 Malibus for the the same amount!
(Also, weren't analysts suggesting last year that Apple was working on technology they could license rather than building the car themselves?)
Comments
I am not saying that Steve is perfect.
I am saying that Steve, like Elon, had the character and the endeavour to get things moving, to recruit talent, manage, innovate in a disruptive manner.
Unlike Cook, who in Tesla would be another grey clerk busy with Airpods (or some accessory of similar significance) - because that is his scope of contribution to the tech world.
Please let him be a full-time chairman at the Chinese Tsinghua state university, because that’s where is heart is. And let someone else intellectually save Apple from becoming the largest repetitive bureaucracy on the planet - whether the financially successful or not - but uninspiring, and intellectually void. Unable to get a charging mat that only charges its own gear launched.
EVs don’t need to be the only way forward.
Did they have office building expertise before taking on HQ? No. What they did was design some portions and features and hire out for others. Pretty easy to imagine the same.
Boy, what kind of drugs do you do? They must be excellent. Apple has a steady release of AirPods, MacBooks, and iMacs. Now you’re whining about products that haven’t even been announced? Get fucking real.
- Palm CEO, on why Apple wasn’t going to be able to make smartphones
...if that’s your only reason, it’s insufficient.
H2 energy density is nice, but the tank size and infrastructure makes battery EVs a much simpler proposition especially as batteries continue to improve.
Heh, Boring - that's a different Musk.co
Tesla's engineering for mass production is improving - there aren't as many bizarre parts configurations in the Y as there were in the S and X
Tesla has a long way to go in the sales department. In 2019 (in the US) they sold only 10% the volume of Chevrolet and that's only one GM marque. Add in all the other brands and Tesla is still a niche manufacturer, even behind Lexus.
What's really needed is a car that the median income consumer can afford. Don't get me wrong, I love my Bolt (has CarPlay, unlike Tesla), but I could have purchased 1.5-almost 2 Malibus for the the same amount!
(Also, weren't analysts suggesting last year that Apple was working on technology they could license rather than building the car themselves?)