If these CPUs disappoint you, well you better hope for an ARM transition because Intel isn’t releasing anything better for a while.
I'm not sure why people pretend that AMD doesn't exist and ARM is the only solution.
AMD's 4800U is a 15W 8 core / 16 thread chip with excellent performance that easily beats out Intel's 25W 6 core / 12 thread 10710U. [graph removed]
What laptops use a 25-28W (or lower if the performance is better) AMD mobile CPU? What is the battery life? I can’t find anything talking about battery life tests and the Ryzen 4000 series. I’m not saying they don’t exist but are they being used by companies like HP, Lenovo and Dell? Customers who need a large and reliable quantity of CPUs to create a flagship. A flagship AMD CPU in the 1.5-1.7 cm (0.60” - 0.67”) thickness range and weighing about 1.4 kg (3 pounds) would be ideal as a comparison to the 13” MacBook Pro.
AMD might get there but they are just starting out being competitive in the mobile space for the first time. That makes it hard for a company needing millions of CPUs per quarter to design for AMD.
Edit: And I should mention that the Intel Core i7-10710U is a 14 nm part and only supports Intel UHD graphics which is not as strong as the Iris Plus. Not really a one to one comparison.
If these CPUs disappoint you, well you better hope for an ARM transition because Intel isn’t releasing anything better for a while.
I'm not sure why people pretend that AMD doesn't exist and ARM is the only solution.
AMD's 4800U is a 15W 8 core / 16 thread chip with excellent performance that easily beats out Intel's 25W 6 core / 12 thread 10710U. [graph removed]
What laptops use a 25-28W (or lower if the performance is better) AMD mobile CPU? What is the battery life? I can’t find anything talking about battery life tests and the Ryzen 4000 series. I’m not saying they don’t exist but are they being used by companies like HP, Lenovo and Dell? Customers who need a large and reliable quantity of CPUs to create a flagship. A flagship AMD CPU in the 1.5-1.7 cm (0.60” - 0.67”) thickness range and weighing about 1.4 kg (3 pounds) would be ideal as a comparison to the 13” MacBook Pro.
AMD might get there but they are just starting out being competitive in the mobile space for the first time. That makes it hard for a company needing millions of CPUs per quarter to design for AMD.
Edit: And I should mention that the Intel Core i7-10710U is a 14 nm part and only supports Intel UHD graphics which is not as strong as the Iris Plus. Not really a one to one comparison.
asus use those cpu for a 14 inch laptop, yes that's a gaming laptop with 12h00 of battery life. (it's a 35w part) :
Dell and HP are still Intel shills. Just like in the pentium 4 era, they are going to support Intel no matter what.
FYI, Lenovo have business devices (and I think consumers devices too) for many years. Many of my customers have them, and the experience have been very positive And they already announce that the next gen of Thinkpads will have the latest AMD processors. https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/updated-thinkpad-laptop-portfolio-empowers-choice-and-business-freedom/ Even MS have Surface devices with AMD. I think the only one that don't have AMD devices is Apple. Do you consider them Intel shills?
But I thought, according to most people on this form, Apple's keyboard was flawless? Don't start to tell me it was just a PR thing.... At least Apple acknowledged the issue and fixed it... just a shame it took so long.
WRONG. Most people here whined about it as if it were the new plague. I've lurked the forum for years and never heard the end of it(until now).
I on the other hand LOVED , absolutely loved the Butterfly Keyboard. The silence and sleekness was nice. My only complaint was how much crap would gather between the keys but I'm not sure that has anything to do with the butterfly design.
This thread moves to fast for me. Anyways, I think the recent updates for the MBA and MBP13 are the last models with Intel. The next models will be ARM.
You either get the Ice Lake MBA of the Ice Lake MBP13. I don't see any scenario by which a buyer should get a Coffee Lake MBP13 model. Apple shouldn't even sell it. A more stripped down Ice Lake MBP13 at $1500 or an up-featured Ice Lake MBA at $1500 would have been the better option. It's like the only reason they put it there was for people who wanted a "Pro" branded machine and Apple really wants to upsell them to an Ice Lake model.
The MBP16 has a drop-in option of Comet Lake H, but they shouldn't even bother. The 10 nm based Tiger Lake (11th generation) is really its best option in terms of minimal work before the ARM switch.
But I thought, according to most people on this form, Apple's keyboard was flawless? Don't start to tell me it was just a PR thing.... At least Apple acknowledged the issue and fixed it... just a shame it took so long.
WRONG. Most people here whined about it as if it were the new plague. I've lurked the forum for years and never heard the end of it(until now).
I on the other hand LOVED , absolutely loved the Butterfly Keyboard. The silence and sleekness was nice. My only complaint was how much crap would gather between the keys but I'm not sure that has anything to do with the butterfly design.
I don't know what Macbook you have, but my MBP 13" 2017 keyboard is very noisy. And the low travel keys felt terrible, specially compared to the Thinkpads and Surface devices I have used.
But I thought, according to most people on this form, Apple's keyboard was flawless? Don't start to tell me it was just a PR thing.... At least Apple acknowledged the issue and fixed it... just a shame it took so long.
WRONG. Most people here whined about it as if it were the new plague. I've lurked the forum for years and never heard the end of it(until now).
I on the other hand LOVED , absolutely loved the Butterfly Keyboard. The silence and sleekness was nice. My only complaint was how much crap would gather between the keys but I'm not sure that has anything to do with the butterfly design.
"Silence?" Are you sure you have the butterfly keyboard? One of the hallmarks of that design is noise. Mine is definitely louder than any other Apple keyboard around here.
But I thought, according to most people on this form, Apple's keyboard was flawless? Don't start to tell me it was just a PR thing.... At least Apple acknowledged the issue and fixed it... just a shame it took so long.
WRONG. Most people here whined about it as if it were the new plague. I've lurked the forum for years and never heard the end of it(until now).
I on the other hand LOVED , absolutely loved the Butterfly Keyboard. The silence and sleekness was nice. My only complaint was how much crap would gather between the keys but I'm not sure that has anything to do with the butterfly design.
I don't know what Macbook you have, but my MBP 13" 2017 keyboard is very noisy. And the low travel keys felt terrible, specially compared to the Thinkpads and Surface devices I have used.
I really like my 2018 MBP15 butterfly keys too. While it was hard to discern the difference in quietness between my old 2015 model and the 2018 model, I like the buckling action better on the butterfly keys. There's more of click than a smooth stroke like with the new Magic Keyboard models. Definitely prefer a light stroke that ends with a quick buckling action. So I prefer full sized external keyboards that feature this, and the butterfly gets the click right. The stroke on the new Magic Keyboard is kind of meh too. I can happily type with it, but it's not some amazing change.
I'm not a keyboard taste-maker though. I've been happily typing on my iPad Pro 10.5 software keyboard for 3 years now. Well, I think I know the difference between a quality feel and a cheap feel at least. The butterfly keyboards definitely have a quality feel to them. They weren't as reliable as they should have been at the beginning, Apple took too long to fix it, and that was its downfall.
But I thought, according to most people on this form, Apple's keyboard was flawless? Don't start to tell me it was just a PR thing.... At least Apple acknowledged the issue and fixed it... just a shame it took so long.
WRONG. Most people here whined about it as if it were the new plague. I've lurked the forum for years and never heard the end of it(until now).
I on the other hand LOVED , absolutely loved the Butterfly Keyboard. The silence and sleekness was nice. My only complaint was how much crap would gather between the keys but I'm not sure that has anything to do with the butterfly design.
Silence? I can hear a butterfly keyboard at 10 paces on a train!
If these CPUs disappoint you, well you better hope for an ARM transition because Intel isn’t releasing anything better for a while.
I'm not sure why people pretend that AMD doesn't exist and ARM is the only solution.
AMD's 4800U is a 15W 8 core / 16 thread chip with excellent performance that easily beats out Intel's 25W 6 core / 12 thread 10710U. [graph removed]
What laptops use a 25-28W (or lower if the performance is better) AMD mobile CPU? What is the battery life? I can’t find anything talking about battery life tests and the Ryzen 4000 series. I’m not saying they don’t exist but are they being used by companies like HP, Lenovo and Dell? Customers who need a large and reliable quantity of CPUs to create a flagship. A flagship AMD CPU in the 1.5-1.7 cm (0.60” - 0.67”) thickness range and weighing about 1.4 kg (3 pounds) would be ideal as a comparison to the 13” MacBook Pro.
AMD might get there but they are just starting out being competitive in the mobile space for the first time. That makes it hard for a company needing millions of CPUs per quarter to design for AMD.
Edit: And I should mention that the Intel Core i7-10710U is a 14 nm part and only supports Intel UHD graphics which is not as strong as the Iris Plus. Not really a one to one comparison.
asus use those cpu for a 14 inch laptop, yes that's a gaming laptop with 12h00 of battery life. (it's a 35w part) :
Dell and HP are still Intel shills. Just like in the pentium 4 era, they are going to support Intel no matter what.
FYI, Lenovo have business devices (and I think consumers devices too) for many years. Many of my customers have them, and the experience have been very positive And they already announce that the next gen of Thinkpads will have the latest AMD processors. https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/updated-thinkpad-laptop-portfolio-empowers-choice-and-business-freedom/ Even MS have Surface devices with AMD. I think the only one that don't have AMD devices is Apple. Do you consider them Intel shills?
I've only criticized Dell and HP, and my critic is mainly about the fact that just like in the past 15 years, AMD cpu are often being used in the cheapest product, when the high end are still using Intel product even when they are not as good. In 2020 I'm still seeing a lot of people who aren't tech savvy just assuming that an amd cpu is a slow product, wich come from the perception that the more expensive it is, the faster it is. Being sold exclusively in the cheaper product, makes your brand look cheap.
Apple vertical integration doesn't allow them to make a fast switch to a new cpu/chipset platform, and they seems to have their own plan, so I don't blame them for that.
But I thought, according to most people on this form, Apple's keyboard was flawless? Don't start to tell me it was just a PR thing.... At least Apple acknowledged the issue and fixed it... just a shame it took so long.
WRONG. Most people here whined about it as if it were the new plague. I've lurked the forum for years and never heard the end of it(until now).
I on the other hand LOVED , absolutely loved the Butterfly Keyboard. The silence and sleekness was nice. My only complaint was how much crap would gather between the keys but I'm not sure that has anything to do with the butterfly design.
I don't know what Macbook you have, but my MBP 13" 2017 keyboard is very noisy. And the low travel keys felt terrible, specially compared to the Thinkpads and Surface devices I have used.
I really like my 2018 MBP15 butterfly keys too. While it was hard to discern the difference in quietness between my old 2015 model and the 2018 model, I like the buckling action better on the butterfly keys. There's more of click than a smooth stroke like with the new Magic Keyboard models. Definitely prefer a light stroke that ends with a quick buckling action. So I prefer full sized external keyboards that feature this, and the butterfly gets the click right. The stroke on the new Magic Keyboard is kind of meh too. I can happily type with it, but it's not some amazing change.
I'm not a keyboard taste-maker though. I've been happily typing on my iPad Pro 10.5 software keyboard for 3 years now. Well, I think I know the difference between a quality feel and a cheap feel at least. The butterfly keyboards definitely have a quality feel to them. They weren't as reliable as they should have been at the beginning, Apple took too long to fix it, and that was its downfall.
I need to work with different devices in my customers, most of them Thinkpads, Surface and MacBooks. And Lenovo still the best, easily. I haven't work with the latest MBP yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Based in your post, you only had Apple devices. Unless you work with other devices for an extended period of time, you wouldn't see the difference.
If these CPUs disappoint you, well you better hope for an ARM transition because Intel isn’t releasing anything better for a while.
I'm not sure why people pretend that AMD doesn't exist and ARM is the only solution.
AMD's 4800U is a 15W 8 core / 16 thread chip with excellent performance that easily beats out Intel's 25W 6 core / 12 thread 10710U. [graph removed]
What laptops use a 25-28W (or lower if the performance is better) AMD mobile CPU? What is the battery life? I can’t find anything talking about battery life tests and the Ryzen 4000 series. I’m not saying they don’t exist but are they being used by companies like HP, Lenovo and Dell? Customers who need a large and reliable quantity of CPUs to create a flagship. A flagship AMD CPU in the 1.5-1.7 cm (0.60” - 0.67”) thickness range and weighing about 1.4 kg (3 pounds) would be ideal as a comparison to the 13” MacBook Pro.
AMD might get there but they are just starting out being competitive in the mobile space for the first time. That makes it hard for a company needing millions of CPUs per quarter to design for AMD.
Edit: And I should mention that the Intel Core i7-10710U is a 14 nm part and only supports Intel UHD graphics which is not as strong as the Iris Plus. Not really a one to one comparison.
asus use those cpu for a 14 inch laptop, yes that's a gaming laptop with 12h00 of battery life. (it's a 35w part) :
Dell and HP are still Intel shills. Just like in the pentium 4 era, they are going to support Intel no matter what.
FYI, Lenovo have business devices (and I think consumers devices too) for many years. Many of my customers have them, and the experience have been very positive And they already announce that the next gen of Thinkpads will have the latest AMD processors. https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/updated-thinkpad-laptop-portfolio-empowers-choice-and-business-freedom/ Even MS have Surface devices with AMD. I think the only one that don't have AMD devices is Apple. Do you consider them Intel shills?
I've only criticized Dell and HP, and my critic is mainly about the fact that just like in the past 15 years, AMD cpu are often being used in the cheapest product, when the high end are still using Intel product even when they are not as good. In 2020 I'm still seeing a lot of people who aren't tech savvy just assuming that an amd cpu is a slow product, wich come from the perception that the more expensive it is, the faster it is. Being sold exclusively in the cheaper product, makes your brand look cheap.
That's the reason I started my post with FYI. Most (maybe all) of my customers already move to Lenovo devices. And for years Lenovo had AMD processors in their business desktops and Thinkpads, devices that are not cheap. And like I mentioned in my post, the experience with AMD processors have been very nice, no issues at all. I don't know to much about their consumer devices, so maybe it matches what you describe with AMD and cheap devices.
Apple vertical integration doesn't allow them to make a fast switch to a new cpu/chipset platform, and they seems to have their own plan, so I don't blame them for that.
Apple didn't had to make a fast switch. They could have make a smooth transition, as Lenovo did.
Quick question. I need a Macbook Pro without Touch Bar. Is any model available now?
"Need"?
No, other than maybe old stock in the retail chain, or possibly a refurb — either of which would mean settling for the old keyboard. Not a good idea.
Other than price, there's no obvious reason to prefer the non-TB version of the MBP. If you don't like the TB, just ignore it. It's not in the way. And with the TB you get the fingerprint reader, which is well worthwhile, and with this new MBP the physical ESC key has now been restored, which matters to some people.
Maybe he spends all his time emulating a VT-220 terminal and is addicted to those physical F-keys. I'm sure there are 2 or 3 users out there with that use case. Yes, Apple has "abandoned" those (niche) users. Oh well.
As someone else mentioned, it's common for production software to make extensive use of the function keys. My bread-winner app, Pro Tools, uses them for switching editing modes, something I do almost as often as hitting "play." Not having them would significantly impact my workflow and productivity.
Exactly this. There is a tendency on here for people to tell us that we don’t need a certain feature to do our work. You might as well say we don’t need a chair. As a professional Pro Tools user myself I can confirm that I use the the hardware function keys many hundreds of times a day and the Touchbar won’t do the job (I’ve tried, believe me). I’m still using a 2015 MBP for this exact reason when out on the road (iMac Pro in the studio). The Touchbar doesn’t work for everyone, including Pro Tools users, unfortunately. External keyboards are the only option for us.
Quick question. I need a Macbook Pro without Touch Bar. Is any model available now?
"Need"?
No, other than maybe old stock in the retail chain, or possibly a refurb — either of which would mean settling for the old keyboard. Not a good idea.
Other than price, there's no obvious reason to prefer the non-TB version of the MBP. If you don't like the TB, just ignore it. It's not in the way. And with the TB you get the fingerprint reader, which is well worthwhile, and with this new MBP the physical ESC key has now been restored, which matters to some people.
Maybe he spends all his time emulating a VT-220 terminal and is addicted to those physical F-keys. I'm sure there are 2 or 3 users out there with that use case. Yes, Apple has "abandoned" those (niche) users. Oh well.
As someone else mentioned, it's common for production software to make extensive use of the function keys. My bread-winner app, Pro Tools, uses them for switching editing modes, something I do almost as often as hitting "play." Not having them would significantly impact my workflow and productivity.
Exactly this. There is a tendency on here for people to tell us that we don’t need a certain feature to do our work. You might as well say we don’t need a chair. As a professional Pro Tools user myself I can confirm that I use the the hardware function keys many hundreds of times a day and the Touchbar won’t do the job (I’ve tried, believe me). I’m still using a 2015 MBP for this exact reason when out on the road (iMac Pro in the studio). The Touchbar doesn’t work for everyone, including Pro Tools users, unfortunately. External keyboards are the only option for us.
Comments
https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/updated-thinkpad-laptop-portfolio-empowers-choice-and-business-freedom/
https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/updated-thinkpad-laptop-portfolio-empowers-choice-and-business-freedom/
Even MS have Surface devices with AMD. I think the only one that don't have AMD devices is Apple. Do you consider them Intel shills?
WRONG. Most people here whined about it as if it were the new plague. I've lurked the forum for years and never heard the end of it(until now).
I on the other hand LOVED , absolutely loved the Butterfly Keyboard. The silence and sleekness was nice. My only complaint was how much crap would gather between the keys but I'm not sure that has anything to do with the butterfly design.
You either get the Ice Lake MBA of the Ice Lake MBP13. I don't see any scenario by which a buyer should get a Coffee Lake MBP13 model. Apple shouldn't even sell it. A more stripped down Ice Lake MBP13 at $1500 or an up-featured Ice Lake MBA at $1500 would have been the better option. It's like the only reason they put it there was for people who wanted a "Pro" branded machine and Apple really wants to upsell them to an Ice Lake model.
The MBP16 has a drop-in option of Comet Lake H, but they shouldn't even bother. The 10 nm based Tiger Lake (11th generation) is really its best option in terms of minimal work before the ARM switch.
"Silence?" Are you sure you have the butterfly keyboard? One of the hallmarks of that design is noise. Mine is definitely louder than any other Apple keyboard around here.
I'm not a keyboard taste-maker though. I've been happily typing on my iPad Pro 10.5 software keyboard for 3 years now. Well, I think I know the difference between a quality feel and a cheap feel at least. The butterfly keyboards definitely have a quality feel to them. They weren't as reliable as they should have been at the beginning, Apple took too long to fix it, and that was its downfall.
It's an annoying sound too. Clackety Clack!
Are you stroking the keys or typing?
In 2020 I'm still seeing a lot of people who aren't tech savvy just assuming that an amd cpu is a slow product, wich come from the perception that the more expensive it is, the faster it is. Being sold exclusively in the cheaper product, makes your brand look cheap.
Apple vertical integration doesn't allow them to make a fast switch to a new cpu/chipset platform, and they seems to have their own plan, so I don't blame them for that.
Apple didn't had to make a fast switch. They could have make a smooth transition, as Lenovo did.