White House urges TSMC, Intel to grow US-based chip production

Posted:
in General Discussion
The White House is in talks with major chip producers Intel and TSMC, in an attempt to try and get more processor production to take place within the United States, a move that could eventually lead to some of Apple's A-series chips being made within the country.




The Trump administration is keen to start the development of new chip foundries in the United States, to cut down on the reliance of facilities in Asia for critical technology, a report claims. The potential for supply chain disruption, as evidenced by issues created by the coronavirus pandemic, has prompted officials to try again at convincing firms to shift some manufacturing to the United States.

Administration officials are in talks with both Intel and TSMC, correspondence seen by the Wall Street Journal, about building new facilities within the United States. While Intel does already have some chip production based in the United States, the talks center around expanding US production for the company, while TSMC would be building its first chip factory.

Intel VP of policy and technical affairs Greg Slater reportedly said Intel is "very serious about this," with its plan involving the creation of a plant for advanced chips that are securely made for government use, as well as some other customers. "We think it's a good opportunity," said Slater, "the timing is better and the demand for this is greater than it has been in the past, even from the commercial side."

For TSMC, it has allegedly been in talks with officials in the Commerce and Defense departments, along with major client Apple, about potentially building a factory in the United States. While it would have similar aims as Intel for government and military chip production, the inclusion of Apple would seemingly suggest somewhere down the line TSMC believes the iPhone maker may want to use its regional facility.

"We are actively evaluating all the suitable locations, including in the U.S., but there is no concrete plan yet," a statement from TSMC about new facilities reads.

The US government has previously applied pressure on TSMC to create a facility in the country, specifically for sensitive components used by the military, such as in fighter jets and satellites. In January, TSMC, attempted to kill off speculation about a country, claiming at the time it had no short-term plans to shift production to the US.

Though best known for Apple's A-series chip production, TSMC has a number of clients across the industry, including a number of US-based tech firms. It has made chips for Qualcomm, Nvidia, Broadcom, AMD, and even Intel, so having a US-based facility may enable those other clients to design advanced chips for use by the US military.

The creation of a TSMC foundry in the US, as well as the talks with Apple on the subject, may be a step towards Apple moving some of its production to within the United States. On face value, it would also assist the Trump administration in achieving President Donald Trump's frequent demands for US companies to bring more manufacturing back to the country, rather than offshoring it to China and other major production hubs.

Even so, a US-based TSMC foundry would not immediately allow Apple to make iPhones in the United States. Apple would have to either make considerable changes to its existing and well-established supply chains to shift production away from Asia to the United States, or create new products that are made within the country, using an entirely separate supply chain from its currently-used processes.

Though the report centers around Intel and TSMC, there is also talk about Samsung, which has a chip factory in Austin, Texas. One source claims some officials are keen to assist Samsung in expanding its current contract-manufacturing operations to create more advanced chips, again for potential government use.
Bart Y
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 30
    karmadavekarmadave Posts: 368member
    Most of Intel's chip manufacturing facilities are already in the United States (Oregon and Arizona) so I am not sure what they are talking about. TSMC (aka Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company) has manufacturing facilities in Taiwan, Mainland China and the United States. While I believe we all want more manufacturing in the United States, there are a couple of issues to keep in mind 1) Since Taiwan, China, South Korea, and Singapore have done a MUCH better job of containing the spread of Coronavirus than the United States what benefit would there be if all these facilities existed in the US? It might even cause more supply chain disruption. 2) These are well-established Asian facilities which would take years to bring back IF even feasible from a financial and logistical standpoint. There is a reason why companies like Apple Manufacturer most of their product in Asia. Who wants to pay $2,500 for an iPhone? 

    Protectionism and economic populism may appeal to parts of the country that have lost significant manufacturing jobs, but this is not something I believe most tech multinationals would see as in the best interests of their shareholders and customers. Capitalism isn't a sentimental system. It's a system that maximizes shareholder value while delivering the best innovative products at the lowest possible prices. That's the stark reality and unless the US embraces 'state capitalism' (as the Chinese Communist Party as done) I don't see this happening. Not trying to make a political argument. Just an observation based on reality.
    edited May 2020 baconstangavon b7flyingdpdewmeviclauyycjdb8167chasmCloudTalkinmuthuk_vanalingamRayz2016
  • Reply 2 of 30
    EsquireCatsEsquireCats Posts: 1,105member
    Wouldn't businesses be more compelled to move to countries with consistently predictable government? The USA has been experiencing an unusual amount of political instability in the last few years, what is the business case to heavily invest in a country where the tables may be flipped on you on a moments notice.
    chasmRayz2016Bart Ypujones1jony0
  • Reply 3 of 30
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,006member
    karmadave said:
    Most of Intel's chip manufacturing facilities are already in the United States (Oregon and Arizona) so I am not sure what they are talking about. TSMC (aka Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company) has manufacturing facilities in Taiwan, Mainland China and the United States. While I believe we all want more manufacturing in the United States, there are a couple of issues to keep in mind 1) Since Taiwan, China, South Korea, and Singapore have done a MUCH better job of containing the spread of Coronavirus than the United States what benefit would there be if all these facilities existed in the US? It might even cause more supply chain disruption. 2) These are well-established Asian facilities which would take years to bring back IF even feasible from a financial and logistical standpoint. There is a reason why companies like Apple Manufacturer most of their product in Asia. Who wants to pay $2,500 for an iPhone? 

    Protectionism and economic populism may appeal to parts of the country that have lost significant manufacturing jobs, but this is not something I believe most tech multinationals would see as in the best interests of their shareholders and customers. Capitalism isn't a sentimental system. It's a system that maximizes shareholder value while delivering the best innovative products at the lowest possible prices. That's the stark reality and unless the US embraces 'state capitalism' (as the Chinese Communist Party as done) I don't see this happening. Not trying to make a political argument. Just an observation based on reality.
    National Security reasons are sufficient to bring fabs to the West.

    COVID19 just uncovered the fact that the West had many products, especially PPE, majority manufactured in China. That the supply chain failed for PPE is one of the reasons that the West is looking at incentives and regulations to change that. China didn't help this by having Chinese companies, operating around the world, buying up PPE; hence, shortages that wouldn't have occurred otherwise.
    flyingdpmacseekerelijahg6502canukstormseanjPatchyThePirateV.2jony0
  • Reply 4 of 30
    christophbchristophb Posts: 1,476member
    Wouldn't businesses be more compelled to move to countries with consistently predictable government? The USA has been experiencing an unusual amount of political instability in the last few years, what is the business case to heavily invest in a country where the tables may be flipped on you on a moments notice.
    Few years...  Since 1776.  Jeez, read a book.
    lkruppjony0
  • Reply 5 of 30
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 8,890member
    We (Americans) sold our souls to China decades ago. China now has the technology edge. They can manufacture electronic gadgets by the billions. They have the technology and they have the workforce and they have the experience. It took a pandemic for some of us to realize ALL of our drugs, ALL our PPE, most healthcare hardware, comes from China because they can build it faster and cheaper. Search Amazon for  non-essential surgical masks, hand sanitizer, etc. It’s ALL from China, not a single U.S. manufacturer to be found. Wow, Apple, GM, started making  PPE shit. What happens when the crisis is abated? What happens to all those ventilators being cobbled together? Will they be stored in a gigantic Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse somewhere in New Mexico?

    The U.S. Treasury is borrowing $3 Trillion to cover the various stimulus legislation. How does the Treasury borrow money? They sell U.S. Treasury notes, that’s how. Any guesses as to who has been buying most of those treasury notes the past few decades? Come on now, you should know this. It’s CHINA of course. China owns big chunk of our debt these days, second only to Japan as of 2019.  The U.K. owns a lot of it too. And a lot of Arab sheiks own a bunch. When will we be labeled as a credit risk?  
    edited May 2020 rob53elijahgviclauyyccanukstormRayz2016pujones1pscooter63jony0
  • Reply 6 of 30
    normmnormm Posts: 627member
    tmay said:
    karmadave said:
    Most of Intel's chip manufacturing facilities are already in the United States (Oregon and Arizona) so I am not sure what they are talking about. TSMC (aka Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company) has manufacturing facilities in Taiwan, Mainland China and the United States. While I believe we all want more manufacturing in the United States, there are a couple of issues to keep in mind 1) Since Taiwan, China, South Korea, and Singapore have done a MUCH better job of containing the spread of Coronavirus than the United States what benefit would there be if all these facilities existed in the US? It might even cause more supply chain disruption. 2) These are well-established Asian facilities which would take years to bring back IF even feasible from a financial and logistical standpoint. There is a reason why companies like Apple Manufacturer most of their product in Asia. Who wants to pay $2,500 for an iPhone? 

    Protectionism and economic populism may appeal to parts of the country that have lost significant manufacturing jobs, but this is not something I believe most tech multinationals would see as in the best interests of their shareholders and customers. Capitalism isn't a sentimental system. It's a system that maximizes shareholder value while delivering the best innovative products at the lowest possible prices. That's the stark reality and unless the US embraces 'state capitalism' (as the Chinese Communist Party as done) I don't see this happening. Not trying to make a political argument. Just an observation based on reality.
    National Security reasons are sufficient to bring fabs to the West.

    COVID19 just uncovered the fact that the West had many products, especially PPE, majority manufactured in China. That the supply chain failed for PPE is one of the reasons that the West is looking at incentives and regulations to change that. China didn't help this by having Chinese companies, operating around the world, buying up PPE; hence, shortages that wouldn't have occurred otherwise.
    Even if many more PPE companies resided in the US, we would still be screwed without planning and foresight.  Companies can't just instantly up their production by several orders of magnitude. The free market is more about  just-in-time than just-in-case.  That's what government is for.  Would your concern about "supply chain failure" be the same if Washington waited until attacking squadrons were overhead, before seeing if anyone could sell us fighter planes?
    ZepLepplinsmiffy31jony0
  • Reply 7 of 30
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,595member
    lkrupp said:
    We (Americans) sold our souls to China decades ago. China now has the technology edge. They can manufacture electronic gadgets by the billions. They have the technology and they have the workforce and they have the experience. It took a pandemic for some of us to realize ALL of our drugs, ALL our PPE, most healthcare hardware, comes from China because they can build it faster and cheaper. Search Amazon for  non-essential surgical masks, hand sanitizer, etc. It’s ALL from China, not a single U.S. manufacturer to be found. Wow, Apple, GM, started making  PPE shit. What happens when the crisis is abated? What happens to all those ventilators being cobbled together? Will they be stored in a gigantic Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse somewhere in New Mexico?

    The U.S. Treasury is borrowing $3 Trillion to cover the various stimulus legislation. How does the Treasury borrow money? They sell U.S. Treasury notes, that’s how. Any guesses as to who has been buying most of those treasury notes the past few decades? Come on now, you should know this. It’s CHINA of course. China owns big chunk of our debt these days, second only to Japan as of 2019.  The U.K. owns a lot of it too. And a lot of Arab sheiks own a bunch. When will we be labeled as a credit risk?  
    Where products are made has not been the root problem. 

    The problem was a massive spike in demand that could not be met. 

    One of the biggest problems was that many countries were not ready for this situation. Protocols were not really appropriate, stocks were not high enough etc. 

    I expect that to change radically as a result of what we've been through and as part of the solution we should see improvements across the board and countries will be accountable for their preparedness.

    Expect to see regional manufacturing hubs with manufacturers able to switch their production lines from non-emergency use to emergency use in very short times. Expect to see warehouses spring up with far more supplies on hand than before. Expect more companies to improve tele work options. Expect field hospitals to pop-up and become fully operational at the drop of a hat. 

    Of course, these changes will have to be plumbed into some geographical framework to ensure that demands on varying supply chains can be met with agility. 

    The bulk of our needs can still be sourced in China if necessary as long as demand can be met while the system is under stress. 

    For that to happen, we have to make some big changes in how we do things but I'm sure we will learn. 


    muthuk_vanalingamlkrupp
  • Reply 8 of 30
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,766member
    This is a worthy goal, but it will take years to implement. And it reveals Intel's weakness as it struggles to migrate to 10nm and 7nm, just as TSMC is moving to 5nm.
    seanj
  • Reply 9 of 30
    rob53rob53 Posts: 2,465member
    avon b7 said:
    lkrupp said:
    We (Americans) sold our souls to China decades ago. China now has the technology edge. They can manufacture electronic gadgets by the billions. They have the technology and they have the workforce and they have the experience. It took a pandemic for some of us to realize ALL of our drugs, ALL our PPE, most healthcare hardware, comes from China because they can build it faster and cheaper. Search Amazon for  non-essential surgical masks, hand sanitizer, etc. It’s ALL from China, not a single U.S. manufacturer to be found. Wow, Apple, GM, started making  PPE shit. What happens when the crisis is abated? What happens to all those ventilators being cobbled together? Will they be stored in a gigantic Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse somewhere in New Mexico?

    The U.S. Treasury is borrowing $3 Trillion to cover the various stimulus legislation. How does the Treasury borrow money? They sell U.S. Treasury notes, that’s how. Any guesses as to who has been buying most of those treasury notes the past few decades? Come on now, you should know this. It’s CHINA of course. China owns big chunk of our debt these days, second only to Japan as of 2019.  The U.K. owns a lot of it too. And a lot of Arab sheiks own a bunch. When will we be labeled as a credit risk?  
    Where products are made has not been the root problem. 

    The problem was a massive spike in demand that could not be met. 

    One of the biggest problems was that many countries were not ready for this situation. Protocols were not really appropriate, stocks were not high enough etc. 

    I expect that to change radically as a result of what we've been through and as part of the solution we should see improvements across the board and countries will be accountable for their preparedness.

    Expect to see regional manufacturing hubs with manufacturers able to switch their production lines from non-emergency use to emergency use in very short times. Expect to see warehouses spring up with far more supplies on hand than before. Expect more companies to improve tele work options. Expect field hospitals to pop-up and become fully operational at the drop of a hat. 

    Of course, these changes will have to be plumbed into some geographical framework to ensure that demands on varying supply chains can be met with agility. 

    The bulk of our needs can still be sourced in China if necessary as long as demand can be met while the system is under stress. 

    For that to happen, we have to make some big changes in how we do things but I'm sure we will learn. 


    lkrupp is right and avonb7 isn't understanding how the US is operating. The US hasn't had any major manufacturing in many years because it's not profitable and that's all that matters to Wall Street. If you want someone to yell at, quit yelling at Apple or even GM because they're not the real problem. Look at all the funds that hold massive shares of AAPL. It is their responsibility to make money for their shareholders. They don't care where things are made they only care about making money. Even DJT doesn't care if companies actually bring manufacturing back to the US unless he can make money on it while dropping taxes for the rich. He's not the only one. The corporate Democrats want the same thing. All that matters is money along with making people think they really care about American workers. You won't see US companies change to be more flexible on what they make, this is a one time (hopefully) event. If it happens again, the US will collapse and when that happens, all those foreign investors will lose money causing a ripple effect throughout the world. If you look at ancient history, you'll see the collapse of civilizations along with groups of people starting all over again but they won't remember, or know, what happened before so they'll commit the same problems again and again. The earth is very old but the current civilization isn't much older than maybe 150 years old. In fact, look at everything that's been invented and produced in the last 100 years. It's more than in the previous 100,000 years.

    We won't learn from what's happening now because we haven't learned from any of our previous mistakes.
    chasmcanukstormBart Ypujones1viclauyycjony0
  • Reply 10 of 30
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,006member
    normm said:
    tmay said:
    karmadave said:
    Most of Intel's chip manufacturing facilities are already in the United States (Oregon and Arizona) so I am not sure what they are talking about. TSMC (aka Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company) has manufacturing facilities in Taiwan, Mainland China and the United States. While I believe we all want more manufacturing in the United States, there are a couple of issues to keep in mind 1) Since Taiwan, China, South Korea, and Singapore have done a MUCH better job of containing the spread of Coronavirus than the United States what benefit would there be if all these facilities existed in the US? It might even cause more supply chain disruption. 2) These are well-established Asian facilities which would take years to bring back IF even feasible from a financial and logistical standpoint. There is a reason why companies like Apple Manufacturer most of their product in Asia. Who wants to pay $2,500 for an iPhone? 

    Protectionism and economic populism may appeal to parts of the country that have lost significant manufacturing jobs, but this is not something I believe most tech multinationals would see as in the best interests of their shareholders and customers. Capitalism isn't a sentimental system. It's a system that maximizes shareholder value while delivering the best innovative products at the lowest possible prices. That's the stark reality and unless the US embraces 'state capitalism' (as the Chinese Communist Party as done) I don't see this happening. Not trying to make a political argument. Just an observation based on reality.
    National Security reasons are sufficient to bring fabs to the West.

    COVID19 just uncovered the fact that the West had many products, especially PPE, majority manufactured in China. That the supply chain failed for PPE is one of the reasons that the West is looking at incentives and regulations to change that. China didn't help this by having Chinese companies, operating around the world, buying up PPE; hence, shortages that wouldn't have occurred otherwise.
    Even if many more PPE companies resided in the US, we would still be screwed without planning and foresight.  Companies can't just instantly up their production by several orders of magnitude. The free market is more about  just-in-time than just-in-case.  That's what government is for.  Would your concern about "supply chain failure" be the same if Washington waited until attacking squadrons were overhead, before seeing if anyone could sell us fighter planes?
    https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/amid-mounting-shortage-5-facts-about-the-nations-stockpile-of-emergency-m/574602/

    The link is wrt strategic stockpiles, which were intended to provide a buffer until production could be ramped up,  but the issue today is, that most of the production of PPE and pharmaceuticals is overseas, and worse, most is produced by an authoritarian adversary.
  • Reply 11 of 30
    65026502 Posts: 363member
    lkrupp said:
    We (Americans) sold our souls to China decades ago. China now has the technology edge. They can manufacture electronic gadgets by the billions. They have the technology and they have the workforce and they have the experience. It took a pandemic for some of us to realize ALL of our drugs, ALL our PPE, most healthcare hardware, comes from China because they can build it faster and cheaper. Search Amazon for  non-essential surgical masks, hand sanitizer, etc. It’s ALL from China, not a single U.S. manufacturer to be found. Wow, Apple, GM, started making  PPE shit. What happens when the crisis is abated? What happens to all those ventilators being cobbled together? Will they be stored in a gigantic Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse somewhere in New Mexico?

    The U.S. Treasury is borrowing $3 Trillion to cover the various stimulus legislation. How does the Treasury borrow money? They sell U.S. Treasury notes, that’s how. Any guesses as to who has been buying most of those treasury notes the past few decades? Come on now, you should know this. It’s CHINA of course. China owns big chunk of our debt these days, second only to Japan as of 2019.  The U.K. owns a lot of it too. And a lot of Arab sheiks own a bunch. When will we be labeled as a credit risk?  
    While I don't disagree with you, keep in mind only about 30% of US debt is own by foreign countries. China and Japan each hold a little over $1T each (Japan is a little bit higher).
    seanjpscooter63
  • Reply 12 of 30
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,006member

    avon b7 said:
    lkrupp said:
    We (Americans) sold our souls to China decades ago. China now has the technology edge. They can manufacture electronic gadgets by the billions. They have the technology and they have the workforce and they have the experience. It took a pandemic for some of us to realize ALL of our drugs, ALL our PPE, most healthcare hardware, comes from China because they can build it faster and cheaper. Search Amazon for  non-essential surgical masks, hand sanitizer, etc. It’s ALL from China, not a single U.S. manufacturer to be found. Wow, Apple, GM, started making  PPE shit. What happens when the crisis is abated? What happens to all those ventilators being cobbled together? Will they be stored in a gigantic Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse somewhere in New Mexico?

    The U.S. Treasury is borrowing $3 Trillion to cover the various stimulus legislation. How does the Treasury borrow money? They sell U.S. Treasury notes, that’s how. Any guesses as to who has been buying most of those treasury notes the past few decades? Come on now, you should know this. It’s CHINA of course. China owns big chunk of our debt these days, second only to Japan as of 2019.  The U.K. owns a lot of it too. And a lot of Arab sheiks own a bunch. When will we be labeled as a credit risk?  
    Where products are made has not been the root problem. 

    The problem was a massive spike in demand that could not be met. 

    One of the biggest problems was that many countries were not ready for this situation. Protocols were not really appropriate, stocks were not high enough etc. 

    I expect that to change radically as a result of what we've been through and as part of the solution we should see improvements across the board and countries will be accountable for their preparedness.

    Expect to see regional manufacturing hubs with manufacturers able to switch their production lines from non-emergency use to emergency use in very short times. Expect to see warehouses spring up with far more supplies on hand than before. Expect more companies to improve tele work options. Expect field hospitals to pop-up and become fully operational at the drop of a hat. 

    Of course, these changes will have to be plumbed into some geographical framework to ensure that demands on varying supply chains can be met with agility. 

    The bulk of our needs can still be sourced in China if necessary as long as demand can be met while the system is under stress. 

    For that to happen, we have to make some big changes in how we do things but I'm sure we will learn. 


    No, it doesn't make sense to continue a majority sourcing of critical items from China, like pharmaceuticals and PPE.

    I do agree that there should be a diversity of manufacturing sites worldwide, and stockpiles of critical supplies should be dispersed among and within nations, to give much more resilience to the supply of these items in a crisis.
    seanj
  • Reply 13 of 30
    FatmanFatman Posts: 513member
    It will take years and billions to bring fab back - but a strategic necessity for the US
    tmayseanj
  • Reply 14 of 30
    Foxconn has a lot of unused space in Wisconsin that these guys could lease....
    Bart Y
  • Reply 15 of 30
    red oakred oak Posts: 841member
    👍 Very good policy 




    edited May 2020
  • Reply 16 of 30
    chasmchasm Posts: 2,322member
    Most of the comments above have at least some factual, rational conditions on why things like this aren't manufactured in the US or Canada. While I have absolutely zero problem with bringing more manufacturing here and understand that business needs shift to create opportunities that on occasion can favour such a move, I think it's unlikely to happen on more than a token scale for a variety of reasons that aren't under the control of US-based authorities or companies.

    Certainly the cost of labour (for the manufacturing part) is a huge issue (the engineering for many tech products -- including nearly all of Apple's products -- is and has always been done largely in California), but also in some cases there is the matter of where the materials needed and the root-manufacturing skills are located that drives these decisions. In other cases, US companies are motivated by tax breaks that ought to be reserved only for companies that manufacture in the US but instead are given to companies that outsource.

    The current call for more chip manufacturing in the US is motivated in part by security concerns (a portion of the customers that want chips made here would be ... the various agencies of the US government) but mostly by nationalism caused by the current administration's inability to get along with our traditional allies (but strangely get along very well with our well-established adversaries ...).
    headfull0winemailmeoffers
  • Reply 17 of 30
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,444member
    Wouldn't businesses be more compelled to move to countries with consistently predictable government? The USA has been experiencing an unusual amount of political instability in the last few years, what is the business case to heavily invest in a country where the tables may be flipped on you on a moments notice.
    Few years...  Since 1776.  Jeez, read a book.
    Bush, Clinton, W, Trump, the swings are getting more extreme evert iteration. Looks like an oscillating feedback amplification loop. 
    EsquireCatslkrupp
  • Reply 18 of 30
    christophbchristophb Posts: 1,476member
    DAalseth said:
    Wouldn't businesses be more compelled to move to countries with consistently predictable government? The USA has been experiencing an unusual amount of political instability in the last few years, what is the business case to heavily invest in a country where the tables may be flipped on you on a moments notice.
    Few years...  Since 1776.  Jeez, read a book.
    Bush, Clinton, W, Trump, the swings are getting more extreme evert iteration. Looks like an oscillating feedback amplification loop. 
    1804, the sitting VP shot to DEATH the former Sec of State and father of the first US bank causing his death in an illegal duel and was never prosecuted.  And you say 41?  Yes, lets look to stable governments in China where doctors and journalists are vaporized.  I mean democracy, right?  King George VI much?  The governing document and system of laws in the US is from 1789.  Find me one older and more stable.
    edited May 2020 beowulfschmidt
  • Reply 19 of 30
    christophbchristophb Posts: 1,476member
    Fatman said:
    It will take years and billions to bring fab back - but a strategic necessity for the US
    Just spent 3 TRiLLION in two months from trusting the CCP.  You wanna spend another 3 TRILLION we don’t have?  Just make hats that say Keep China Great!
    pujones1
  • Reply 20 of 30
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,382member
    avon b7 said:
    lkrupp said:
    We (Americans) sold our souls to China decades ago. China now has the technology edge. They can manufacture electronic gadgets by the billions. They have the technology and they have the workforce and they have the experience. It took a pandemic for some of us to realize ALL of our drugs, ALL our PPE, most healthcare hardware, comes from China because they can build it faster and cheaper. Search Amazon for  non-essential surgical masks, hand sanitizer, etc. It’s ALL from China, not a single U.S. manufacturer to be found. Wow, Apple, GM, started making  PPE shit. What happens when the crisis is abated? What happens to all those ventilators being cobbled together? Will they be stored in a gigantic Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse somewhere in New Mexico?

    The U.S. Treasury is borrowing $3 Trillion to cover the various stimulus legislation. How does the Treasury borrow money? They sell U.S. Treasury notes, that’s how. Any guesses as to who has been buying most of those treasury notes the past few decades? Come on now, you should know this. It’s CHINA of course. China owns big chunk of our debt these days, second only to Japan as of 2019.  The U.K. owns a lot of it too. And a lot of Arab sheiks own a bunch. When will we be labeled as a credit risk?  
    Where products are made has not been the root problem. 

    The problem was a massive spike in demand that could not be met. 

    One of the biggest problems was that many countries were not ready for this situation. Protocols were not really appropriate, stocks were not high enough etc. 

    I expect that to change radically as a result of what we've been through and as part of the solution we should see improvements across the board and countries will be accountable for their preparedness.

    Expect to see regional manufacturing hubs with manufacturers able to switch their production lines from non-emergency use to emergency use in very short times. Expect to see warehouses spring up with far more supplies on hand than before. Expect more companies to improve tele work options. Expect field hospitals to pop-up and become fully operational at the drop of a hat. 

    Of course, these changes will have to be plumbed into some geographical framework to ensure that demands on varying supply chains can be met with agility. 

    The bulk of our needs can still be sourced in China if necessary as long as demand can be met while the system is under stress. 

    For that to happen, we have to make some big changes in how we do things but I'm sure we will learn. 


    When it comes to essential items (PPE, medical hardware, drugs, etc.), where they are made is the root of the problem and the massive spike in demand exposed a huge crack in the underlying problem.  These items need to be made local to allow nations to be more flexible in times like this. 
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