Apple supplier Broadcom hints at delayed 'iPhone 12' launch

Posted:
in iPhone edited December 2020
The CEO of Apple supplier Broadcom on Thursday said an expected revenue bump in the firm's wireless sector revenue will arrive one quarter later than usual this year, suggesting a launch of 2020's iPhone lineup is slated for a similar delay.

Broadcom


In comments made during an earnings conference call, Broadcom chief Hock Tan cited a "major product cycle delay" at a "large North American mobile phone" customer as cause for the delayed income.

As Bloomberg reports, Tan sometimes uses the vague descriptor as a sobriquet for Apple.

"We are in," Hock said, assumedly referring to Broadcom parts in the next iPhone. "The question is timing."

More specifically, Tan said, "This year, we do not expect to see this uptick in revenue until our fourth fiscal quarter. So accordingly, we expect, our wireless revenue in Q3 will be down sequentially."

Apple is widely anticipated to debut a next-generation "iPhone 12" this fall, though an exact launch timeline is in dispute due to effects of the ongoing coronavirus pandemic. The company typically unveils its latest smartphones in September, but a number of reports have indicated this year's launch will take place in October or later.

Most recently, reports from the supply chain claimed Apple assembly partners are gearing up for a start to production in July.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 13
    chasmchasm Posts: 2,391member
    I think it much more likely that only some of the iPhone 12 family will be actually released later than the main line, and it's also likely that buyers will find some (all?) models very "constrained" for a while. For those of us who are not new to this annual circus, this will sound very familiar.

    Indeed, iPhones that arrive two weeks after announcement in sufficient quantity to meet the initial rush would be a far bigger and more unusual story than what we're likely to actually get, which I believe will be very much in line with traditional iPhone constraints and supply shortages that plagued the <looks at history> iPhones 6, 7, 8, and X families.
  • Reply 2 of 13
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,901member
    Impossible to know of course but there is one aspect that is worth commenting on.

    If the iPhone 12 were to ship 'on time', a matter of weeks later, QC would be releasing the next generation of its 5G modem for release in Android phones in early 2021.

    Delaying the iPhone 12 release by a full quarter would pit it against the S30 (very likely with that new 5G modem and corresponding SoC) and the P50 series with Huawei's latest 5G modem too. 

    From there the speculation can start. Would any rumoured delay be a reaction to not having material time to release the iPhone 12 within Apple’s typical refresh window, or a planned delay to integrate QC's latest modem just before it ships on Android phones, or perhaps a combination of both? Or none of them (should the rumour prove unfounded). 
  • Reply 3 of 13
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,260member
    avon b7 said:
    Impossible to know of course but there is one aspect that is worth commenting on.

    If the iPhone 12 were to ship 'on time', a matter of weeks later, QC would be releasing the next generation of its 5G modem for release in Android phones in early 2021.

    Delaying the iPhone 12 release by a full quarter would pit it against the S30 (very likely with that new 5G modem and corresponding SoC) and the P50 series with Huawei's latest 5G modem too. 

    From there the speculation can start. Would any rumoured delay be a reaction to not having material time to release the iPhone 12 within Apple’s typical refresh window, or a planned delay to integrate QC's latest modem just before it ships on Android phones, or perhaps a combination of both? Or none of them (should the rumour prove unfounded). 

    That's interesting...   I wonder if that new release of the 5G modem would be substantial or merely minor technical changes?
    If it is significant, that would be a real slap in the face to Apple and its customers.  But that should not surprise anyone:   The relationship between Apple & Qualcomm has not been a good one for years.  And, Qualcomm of course understands that they are on Apple's short-timer list --- that they will only be a supplier till Apple can dump them.

    So, why should Qualcomm do Apple any favors?
    So, why should Qualcomm not favor its long term customers like Samsung?
    jony0
  • Reply 4 of 13
    harry wildharry wild Posts: 768member
    Hope Apple releases an 5.4” iPhone 12 Pro instead of the junky 5.4” iPhone 12!  It is only $300 cheaper and lacks $700 less technology and looks, gives you aluminum edge, not stainless steel, inferior camera and 2 less GB of RAM and has inferior OLED panel too!  It is from LG not Samsung!  Ugh!
    edited June 2020
  • Reply 5 of 13
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,454member
    avon b7 said:
    Impossible to know of course but there is one aspect that is worth commenting on.

    If the iPhone 12 were to ship 'on time', a matter of weeks later, QC would be releasing the next generation of its 5G modem for release in Android phones in early 2021.

    Delaying the iPhone 12 release by a full quarter would pit it against the S30 (very likely with that new 5G modem and corresponding SoC) and the P50 series with Huawei's latest 5G modem too. 

    From there the speculation can start. Would any rumoured delay be a reaction to not having material time to release the iPhone 12 within Apple’s typical refresh window, or a planned delay to integrate QC's latest modem just before it ships on Android phones, or perhaps a combination of both? Or none of them (should the rumour prove unfounded). 
    You need to get it through that thick skull of yours that Huawei and Samsung are in no way competitors with the iPhone. People don't switch platforms willy-nilly. If the Samsung product has a newer 5G modem that doesn't in anyway mean iPhone users will move in droves to the 'newest' technology. It's a pipe dream of the spec monkeys.The two camps are solidly established and the only users who move around are the fake techies. If anything iOS users have too much invested in the platform to change while Android users have the most flexibility in moving to iOS because Android users typically don't invest in apps that cost money. They're all about the free crap. 
    edited June 2020 ericthehalfbeejony0
  • Reply 6 of 13
    avon b7 said:
    Impossible to know of course but there is one aspect that is worth commenting on.

    If the iPhone 12 were to ship 'on time', a matter of weeks later, QC would be releasing the next generation of its 5G modem for release in Android phones in early 2021.

    Delaying the iPhone 12 release by a full quarter would pit it against the S30 (very likely with that new 5G modem and corresponding SoC) and the P50 series with Huawei's latest 5G modem too. 

    From there the speculation can start. Would any rumoured delay be a reaction to not having material time to release the iPhone 12 within Apple’s typical refresh window, or a planned delay to integrate QC's latest modem just before it ships on Android phones, or perhaps a combination of both? Or none of them (should the rumour prove unfounded). 

    I wonder if that new release of the 5G modem would be substantial or merely minor technical changes?

    So, why should Qualcomm not favor its long term customers like Samsung?

    Couple of points here:

    1. Qualcomm was unable to integrate the 5G modem into the SoC (which they traditionally do) in the last couple of years. If they are able to integrate the 5G modem with the Snapdragon 875, it would be much more efficient in power consumption than the current generation Snapdragon 865 SoC with external 5G modem.

    2. Samsung is a direct competitor to Qualcomm in BOTH SoCs and 5G modem. While Apple designs their own SoCs, they don't "compete" with Qualcomm for SoC business. Huawei is also not competing with Qualcomm for SoC business (like Apple), but can choose to do so anytime under suitable circumstances (which is somewhat unrealistic for Apple to do). As you are already aware, Apple is a HUGE customer for Qualcomm's modems in the "premium" segment, much larger than Huawei/Samsung who have their own solutions as well. Considering all those factors, Qualcomm is better off prioritizing Apple than Samsung/Huawei.

    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 7 of 13
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,260member
    avon b7 said:
    Impossible to know of course but there is one aspect that is worth commenting on.

    If the iPhone 12 were to ship 'on time', a matter of weeks later, QC would be releasing the next generation of its 5G modem for release in Android phones in early 2021.

    Delaying the iPhone 12 release by a full quarter would pit it against the S30 (very likely with that new 5G modem and corresponding SoC) and the P50 series with Huawei's latest 5G modem too. 

    From there the speculation can start. Would any rumoured delay be a reaction to not having material time to release the iPhone 12 within Apple’s typical refresh window, or a planned delay to integrate QC's latest modem just before it ships on Android phones, or perhaps a combination of both? Or none of them (should the rumour prove unfounded). 

    I wonder if that new release of the 5G modem would be substantial or merely minor technical changes?

    So, why should Qualcomm not favor its long term customers like Samsung?

    Couple of points here:

    1. Qualcomm was unable to integrate the 5G modem into the SoC (which they traditionally do) in the last couple of years. If they are able to integrate the 5G modem with the Snapdragon 875, it would be much more efficient in power consumption than the current generation Snapdragon 865 SoC with external 5G modem.

    2. Samsung is a direct competitor to Qualcomm in BOTH SoCs and 5G modem. While Apple designs their own SoCs, they don't "compete" with Qualcomm for SoC business. Huawei is also not competing with Qualcomm for SoC business (like Apple), but can choose to do so anytime under suitable circumstances (which is somewhat unrealistic for Apple to do). As you are already aware, Apple is a HUGE customer for Qualcomm's modems in the "premium" segment, much larger than Huawei/Samsung who have their own solutions as well. Considering all those factors, Qualcomm is better off prioritizing Apple than Samsung/Huawei.


    Thanks, I wasn't aware that Samsung had their own 5G modem.   That raises the question of why Apple neglected Samsung, a vendor they are comfortable dealing with in favor of Qualcomm which is a vendor they have had significant problems with and, not long ago, dumped due to those problems.
  • Reply 8 of 13
    avon b7 said:
    Impossible to know of course but there is one aspect that is worth commenting on.

    If the iPhone 12 were to ship 'on time', a matter of weeks later, QC would be releasing the next generation of its 5G modem for release in Android phones in early 2021.

    Delaying the iPhone 12 release by a full quarter would pit it against the S30 (very likely with that new 5G modem and corresponding SoC) and the P50 series with Huawei's latest 5G modem too. 

    From there the speculation can start. Would any rumoured delay be a reaction to not having material time to release the iPhone 12 within Apple’s typical refresh window, or a planned delay to integrate QC's latest modem just before it ships on Android phones, or perhaps a combination of both? Or none of them (should the rumour prove unfounded). 

    I wonder if that new release of the 5G modem would be substantial or merely minor technical changes?

    So, why should Qualcomm not favor its long term customers like Samsung?

    Couple of points here:

    1. Qualcomm was unable to integrate the 5G modem into the SoC (which they traditionally do) in the last couple of years. If they are able to integrate the 5G modem with the Snapdragon 875, it would be much more efficient in power consumption than the current generation Snapdragon 865 SoC with external 5G modem.

    2. Samsung is a direct competitor to Qualcomm in BOTH SoCs and 5G modem. While Apple designs their own SoCs, they don't "compete" with Qualcomm for SoC business. Huawei is also not competing with Qualcomm for SoC business (like Apple), but can choose to do so anytime under suitable circumstances (which is somewhat unrealistic for Apple to do). As you are already aware, Apple is a HUGE customer for Qualcomm's modems in the "premium" segment, much larger than Huawei/Samsung who have their own solutions as well. Considering all those factors, Qualcomm is better off prioritizing Apple than Samsung/Huawei.


    Thanks, I wasn't aware that Samsung had their own 5G modem.   That raises the question of why Apple neglected Samsung, a vendor they are comfortable dealing with in favor of Qualcomm which is a vendor they have had significant problems with and, not long ago, dumped due to those problems.


    Just a guess from my part - It is quite possible that Samsung's 5G modem is not as efficient as Qualcomm's and does not meet Apple's standards.

    Edit:

    Another point that I remember now is - Qualcomm does own plenty of 5G patents. So even if Apple buys Samsung's modems, they might end up paying Qualcomm tax and end up with a worse cost structure than dealing with Qualcomm directly. And that reminds me another point - Even if Apple wants to dump Qualcomm from their supply chain, they cannot avoid dealing with Qualcomm in one way (pay royalty for their patents) or other (violate them deliberately and deal with them in courts for several years).

    edited June 2020 GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 9 of 13
    ericthehalfbeeericthehalfbee Posts: 4,284member
    avon b7 said:
    Impossible to know of course but there is one aspect that is worth commenting on.

    If the iPhone 12 were to ship 'on time', a matter of weeks later, QC would be releasing the next generation of its 5G modem for release in Android phones in early 2021.

    Delaying the iPhone 12 release by a full quarter would pit it against the S30 (very likely with that new 5G modem and corresponding SoC) and the P50 series with Huawei's latest 5G modem too. 

    From there the speculation can start. Would any rumoured delay be a reaction to not having material time to release the iPhone 12 within Apple’s typical refresh window, or a planned delay to integrate QC's latest modem just before it ships on Android phones, or perhaps a combination of both? Or none of them (should the rumour prove unfounded). 

    That's interesting...   I wonder if that new release of the 5G modem would be substantial or merely minor technical changes?
    If it is significant, that would be a real slap in the face to Apple and its customers.  But that should not surprise anyone:   The relationship between Apple & Qualcomm has not been a good one for years.  And, Qualcomm of course understands that they are on Apple's short-timer list --- that they will only be a supplier till Apple can dump them.

    So, why should Qualcomm do Apple any favors?
    So, why should Qualcomm not favor its long term customers like Samsung?


    Two reasons:

    Apple settled with Qualcomm instead of raking them over the coals for their obvious antitrust issues. You could say Qualcomm owes Apple one for this. 

    Money. Apple will sell more iPhones with 5G when it launches than all other 5G phones on the planet have in the last year.
    jony0
  • Reply 10 of 13
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,260member
    avon b7 said:
    Impossible to know of course but there is one aspect that is worth commenting on.

    If the iPhone 12 were to ship 'on time', a matter of weeks later, QC would be releasing the next generation of its 5G modem for release in Android phones in early 2021.

    Delaying the iPhone 12 release by a full quarter would pit it against the S30 (very likely with that new 5G modem and corresponding SoC) and the P50 series with Huawei's latest 5G modem too. 

    From there the speculation can start. Would any rumoured delay be a reaction to not having material time to release the iPhone 12 within Apple’s typical refresh window, or a planned delay to integrate QC's latest modem just before it ships on Android phones, or perhaps a combination of both? Or none of them (should the rumour prove unfounded). 

    That's interesting...   I wonder if that new release of the 5G modem would be substantial or merely minor technical changes?
    If it is significant, that would be a real slap in the face to Apple and its customers.  But that should not surprise anyone:   The relationship between Apple & Qualcomm has not been a good one for years.  And, Qualcomm of course understands that they are on Apple's short-timer list --- that they will only be a supplier till Apple can dump them.

    So, why should Qualcomm do Apple any favors?
    So, why should Qualcomm not favor its long term customers like Samsung?


    Two reasons:

    Apple settled with Qualcomm instead of raking them over the coals for their obvious antitrust issues. You could say Qualcomm owes Apple one for this. 

    Money. Apple will sell more iPhones with 5G when it launches than all other 5G phones on the planet have in the last year.

    Frankly that looked more like UnConditional Surrender than a settlement to me.
    Apple, had bet the marbles on Intel.   It was a bad bet.  They lost.
  • Reply 11 of 13
    Can't wait for Apple to drop Broadcom. Soon INTEL, NIVIDA AMD and Broadcom will be sent to the Apple dustbin.
  • Reply 12 of 13
    avon b7 said:
    Impossible to know of course but there is one aspect that is worth commenting on.

    If the iPhone 12 were to ship 'on time', a matter of weeks later, QC would be releasing the next generation of its 5G modem for release in Android phones in early 2021.

    Delaying the iPhone 12 release by a full quarter would pit it against the S30 (very likely with that new 5G modem and corresponding SoC) and the P50 series with Huawei's latest 5G modem too. 

    From there the speculation can start. Would any rumoured delay be a reaction to not having material time to release the iPhone 12 within Apple’s typical refresh window, or a planned delay to integrate QC's latest modem just before it ships on Android phones, or perhaps a combination of both? Or none of them (should the rumour prove unfounded). 

    That's interesting...   I wonder if that new release of the 5G modem would be substantial or merely minor technical changes?
    If it is significant, that would be a real slap in the face to Apple and its customers.  But that should not surprise anyone:   The relationship between Apple & Qualcomm has not been a good one for years.  And, Qualcomm of course understands that they are on Apple's short-timer list --- that they will only be a supplier till Apple can dump them.

    So, why should Qualcomm do Apple any favors?
    So, why should Qualcomm not favor its long term customers like Samsung?


    Two reasons:

    Apple settled with Qualcomm instead of raking them over the coals for their obvious antitrust issues. You could say Qualcomm owes Apple one for this. 

    Money. Apple will sell more iPhones with 5G when it launches than all other 5G phones on the planet have in the last year.

    Frankly that looked more like UnConditional Surrender than a settlement to me.
    Apple, had bet the marbles on Intel.   It was a bad bet.  They lost.


    Nope...


    Apple is hustling to get its own 5G modem in 2022’s iPhones

    The next-generation modem will be based on intellectual property Apple got by buying Intel’s modem business last summer. But lots of work remains.


    After buying Intel’s 5G modem business earlier this year, Apple is wasting no time building its own 5G modem for the iPhone.

    The company is pushing to have its modem in iPhones by 2022, a very aggressive timeline given all the development, testing, and certification work involved, a source with knowledge of the company’s plans said.

    For now, Apple is getting its iPhone modems from Qualcomm, after the two companies dropped their legal squabbling and made up in April. Qualcomm will provide the modem for the first 5G iPhone next year.

  • Reply 13 of 13
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,901member
    lkrupp said:
    avon b7 said:
    Impossible to know of course but there is one aspect that is worth commenting on.

    If the iPhone 12 were to ship 'on time', a matter of weeks later, QC would be releasing the next generation of its 5G modem for release in Android phones in early 2021.

    Delaying the iPhone 12 release by a full quarter would pit it against the S30 (very likely with that new 5G modem and corresponding SoC) and the P50 series with Huawei's latest 5G modem too. 

    From there the speculation can start. Would any rumoured delay be a reaction to not having material time to release the iPhone 12 within Apple’s typical refresh window, or a planned delay to integrate QC's latest modem just before it ships on Android phones, or perhaps a combination of both? Or none of them (should the rumour prove unfounded). 
    You need to get it through that thick skull of yours that Huawei and Samsung are in no way competitors with the iPhone. People don't switch platforms willy-nilly. If the Samsung product has a newer 5G modem that doesn't in anyway mean iPhone users will move in droves to the 'newest' technology. It's a pipe dream of the spec monkeys.The two camps are solidly established and the only users who move around are the fake techies. If anything iOS users have too much invested in the platform to change while Android users have the most flexibility in moving to iOS because Android users typically don't invest in apps that cost money. They're all about the free crap. 
    If that were truly the case, why do you think that Apple, Huawei and probably Samsung and everyone else provide apps for switching to the other platform? 

    Apple got itself in a serious pickle by slipping behind in key areas and had to play catch up (and is still doing so). Sales stalled. To the point that Apple stopped providing the numbers. We may call them 'specs' but users see functionality. Users see options. They are important. Even colour schemes and finishes are important. Apple users do care about this stuff and no doubt Apple has lost sales as a result for a few years. When it started catching up to current industry needs, sales appear to have picked up (COVID-19 threw a spanner into the works but consensus seems to be that sales were on the up and the new iPhone SE also seems to have got off to a roaring start. 

    But you missed the point really. It is only speculation. Apple has slowly changed its business model in vital and essential ways. 

    Just three years ago many here were scoffing at Apple having to change anything. How wrong those people were. Some seemed to think that iPhones almost sold themselves. They don't. People (iPhone users) wanted premium they said and would pay the premium price. 

    They added a third model to the refresh cycle and now we see the rumour of a fourth model. The SE2 ('low cost') line might now be here to stay. Pricing went up (probably too far) and then came down. The model spread is possibly the widest it has ever been.

    The old business model of two devices for the Christmas period is dead. The equivalent 'S' cycle might even be dead too. 

    None of this happened because Apple had a master plan. Nope. It has reacted to market forces every step of the way and those forces aren't limited to iOS users. They very much include Android and Android hardware. Competition. 

    Apple has also benefitted from not having to compete with Huawei on U.S soil. Massively, seeing as it is one of the largest handset markets on the planet. 

    In 2018 Huawei had a signed deal with AT&T for nationwide carrier distribution. That would have meant the end of the 'duopoly' and if you want a taster of what that could have led to, just look at other parts of the world. AT&T spent basically all of 2017 with Huawei tuning its network and the Kirin 970.

    Literally days before the big announcement (at CES 2018) and according to reports, AT&T got strongarmed by the U.S government to walk away from the deal.

    Now, we know Apple is late to 5G but finally having a product but which could be technically from last year is something they would like to avoid if possible. That's logical but Apple normally puts its eggs into the Christmas period basket which could make having the newest 5G offering a tough call. The next generation 5G products are very likely to offer improved power efficiencies which Apple takes very seriously.

    If, for whatever reason, Apple hasn't been able to finish the iPhone 12 (or some models within the range) and doesn't see production being able to ramp suffiently high for the Christmas period, there is always the option of 'buying time' and releasing against the P50 and S30 at the start of 2021 (around MWC). 

    That would see them having the option at least of using the newest 5G offering from QC.

    Of course, for that to actually happen the decision and engineering issues related to including (what I imagine will be called X65) will have already been taken. 

    There were rumours of delays related to 5G antenna arrays, remember.

    Anyway. It's just speculation. 
    edited June 2020
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