I’m amazed they demoed Maya (and gaming) using Rosetta 2. I’m going to guess that 3D/animation apps are all going to be needing to be on Metal already in order to work in Rosetta (or at least work well?) but I’m beyond excited for this!
Guess we’ll be waiting to see the new iMac, wonder when that’ll launch.
They demoed 1080p 60fps low settings and most of the acceleration was coming from the Afterburner integrated components they failed to mention on that motherboard. They mentioned no specs, completely unlike Apple. They showed the barest of stuff working, including that pathetic Maya demo of a wireframe and low graphic non-textured edit view.
Just take a look at what is on the upcoming Motherboard. Most of the heavy lifting will come from the Afterburner parts and not the CPU/GPU SoC.
All those specific processors/accelerators are FPGA based. High efficiency audio processor, Cryptography Acceleration, High-performance video editing, Machine Learning accelerators, High quality camera processor, Neural Engine. These are parts of the SoC. These are add-ons that you can't put in a smartphone or an iPad due to the massive batteries in the way. This stuff is bits and pieces on the Motherboard that compensate for the SoC being weak overall.
You put each one of those in an Intel or especially an AMD system with the Zen 3 and it's 64 core/128 thread max for consumers and you have something that nothing Apple does will ever compete. Apple is doing this to increase their profit margins and further stream line contractual agreements with third parties by no longer being contractually obligated for x amount of years with this or that vendor.
Apple will save the fully loaded system specs shown below for their most expensive variety of system and reduce the components down to their entry level machines. Profit margins will increase along with prices.
The most annoying oblique reference is `Advanced silicon packaging.' The industry leader in advanced Silicon Packaging is the Zen line. The Zen 4 is introducing X3D packaging (2.5D & 3D packaging] for their SoC APUs and CPUs. It's obvious that AMD will be soon move to APUs only with Infinity Architecture shared backplane allowing for GPUs to share the same bandwidth/memory. Zen 2 APUs already have lower power design than Intel.
Zen 3 drops down considerably further. AMD and Apple will be on 5nm and below at the same time.
Nothing Apple is doing is for lack of options.
And then you have Microsoft creating modified ARM SoCs with Qualcomm for the Surface Pro X, using Intel+NVIDIA in the Surface Book and more recently, testing Ryzen 4000 series in the upcoming Surface Laptop:
I think it's interesting to see where this hardware race ends up and how different applications adapt. It's true, Apple did have options, but I'm curious to see what type of hardware they can create over the coming years and how well the software integrates with it.
I'm just going to pretend that I didn't watch the first minute or two of the keynote and ignore any politics.
How horrible that someone considers human rights of others. This wouldn't be political to you if you started believing that people of color deserve equal rights.
It's political crap and I reject it.
Rejecting it is what’s called privilege. Those messages are for people like you.
It appears this user has since been rejected. I'm amazed at the compulsion for bigots to constantly out themselves on forums like this. Thank you, mods.
The switch to Apple Silicon will allow Apple to expand the MacBook line down to much lower cost entry level machines thereby significantly increasing PC market share. Currently, the lowest cost MacBook Air is $999 and the lowest cost iPad is $329. An entry level MacBook could get by with passive cooling and a much smaller battery not to mention the Apple Silicon will be a small fraction of Intel silicon cost. The MacBook cost model will look very much like an iPad; therefore, I could see MacBooks starting at $499 or lower and the whole line dropping in price while Apple still increases profit margin. They will be able to go head-to-head with low-cost low-margin Wintel machines and make a nice profit, not to mention all the switchers they will attract. It's a brilliant move by Apple which is why the stock is on a tear.
Let’s not assume that this will lead to any kind of price reduction across the board. The R&D on this stuff needs to be paid for.
I think people are not truly understanding why some people don't like this move from Apple. It is not a technical issue. It is not a loyalty problem.
It is an Apple problem.
Apple could use both Intel and A series chips for their computers. They could use compliers to produce code for both. They are even gong to do this in the sort term.
Apple is going to build the computers that Apple wants to build. Not the computers that some of us want them to build. They are not going to build a 12/16 core AMD class desktop. If they wanted to they already would have.
Some of us are upset cause we don't trust Apple to make the machines we want. This fear comes from years of neglect and having seen Apple make this transition 2x before. They already cut 32 bit games. These changes and decisions are on purpose.
Ask your self "What machines does Apple want to make." and is that machine for me. If it is, good for you. But some of us are going to get left behind and we don't like it.
My greatest fear is that Apple and all its wonderful software and custom silicon will one day become the next Amiga. Remember this has almost happen. One when 68k died and again when AIM PPC alliance failed.
Then nothing has changed. You should always pick the machine that best fits your needs, and if you’re emotionally wedded to Intel/AMD rather than the actual capabilities of the machine they’re fitted to, then you should get off the platform now.
My greatest fear is that Apple and all its wonderful software and custom silicon will one day become the next Amiga. Remember this has almost happen. One when 68k died and again when AIM PPC alliance failed.
That’s hilarious. But sure, compare a niche product that was made for a couple of years to the must valuable company in the word. That makes a ton of sense.
I remain skeptical. Not because I don't think Apple can pull this off. They've done it 2x before so clearly they can. Consumers probably won't notice any difference other than better battery life, etc. Will large corporations buy any laptop that doesn't have an x86 compatible processor? Clearly they buy lots of iPhones and iPads so perhaps. Fortunately for Apple the Mac is a small portion of their overall revenue so the risk is relatively small. Especially compared to their last major transition when Mac was the majority of their revenue. This is a multi-year adventure so it will be interesting to follow Apple's progress.
If Apple can then sell more computers for less money but with the same high profits corporations and people will scarf them up.
Best WWDC keynote in years. Straight to the point, no interacting with a life audience, pre-recorded is they doctor get it right without hiccups and keep it tightly scripted. They should do it this way every year, with apologies to the live audience who would love to be present.
I’m amazed they demoed Maya (and gaming) using Rosetta 2. I’m going to guess that 3D/animation apps are all going to be needing to be on Metal already in order to work in Rosetta (or at least work well?) but I’m beyond excited for this!
Guess we’ll be waiting to see the new iMac, wonder when that’ll launch.
They demoed 1080p 60fps low settings and most of the acceleration was coming from the Afterburner integrated components they failed to mention on that motherboard. They mentioned no specs, completely unlike Apple. They showed the barest of stuff working, including that pathetic Maya demo of a wireframe and low graphic non-textured edit view.
Just take a look at what is on the upcoming Motherboard. Most of the heavy lifting will come from the Afterburner parts and not the CPU/GPU SoC.
All those specific processors/accelerators are FPGA based. High efficiency audio processor, Cryptography Acceleration, High-performance video editing, Machine Learning accelerators, High quality camera processor, Neural Engine. These are parts of the SoC. These are add-ons that you can't put in a smartphone or an iPad due to the massive batteries in the way. This stuff is bits and pieces on the Motherboard that compensate for the SoC being weak overall.
You put each one of those in an Intel or especially an AMD system with the Zen 3 and it's 64 core/128 thread max for consumers and you have something that nothing Apple does will ever compete. Apple is doing this to increase their profit margins and further stream line contractual agreements with third parties by no longer being contractually obligated for x amount of years with this or that vendor.
Apple will save the fully loaded system specs shown below for their most expensive variety of system and reduce the components down to their entry level machines. Profit margins will increase along with prices.
The most annoying oblique reference is `Advanced silicon packaging.' The industry leader in advanced Silicon Packaging is the Zen line. The Zen 4 is introducing X3D packaging (2.5D & 3D packaging] for their SoC APUs and CPUs. It's obvious that AMD will be soon move to APUs only with Infinity Architecture shared backplane allowing for GPUs to share the same bandwidth/memory. Zen 2 APUs already have lower power design than Intel.
Zen 3 drops down considerably further. AMD and Apple will be on 5nm and below at the same time.
Nothing Apple is doing is for lack of options.
Oh yes, they had options, and they went for the most difficult one because it was the one that best allowed them to secure their future, streamline their own development and that of their developer base. Why would you go with a company that relies on the technology of another company for its existence? What happens when AMD hits the same wall as Intel? How does Apple know they’ll put Apple’s requirements above others when things get tricky.
Apple hit problems with 68K Apple hit problems with PowerPC Apple hit problems with Intel
At some point you have realise that only you care enough about what you’re trying to do to make sure you have all the pieces in place to do it.
Apple didn’t go with AMD because they knew that five years from now they’d be in exactly the same position they always end up in when relying on someone else to build their silicon.
You can bleat on about AMD as much as you like, but it’s done. It’s over. The ship has sailed. The plane has taken off. The fat lady has sung the washing is dry and the pasta is cooked.
This has never been just about speed, so throwing in comparisons against a processor you haven’t seen is rather pointless.
Back in the day I had an Atari 1040 ST. It used the same Motorola processor that Macs used and you could get a card with the Apple ROMs on it and run Mac software on the Atari.
I hope they do all their WWDC keynotes like this from now on. Product announcements are different, but developers just need the facts and the specs. I think this format works very well.
Meg Frost’s wheelchair. Wow. I was wondering if that’s something Apple should be getting into.
Disappointed that Apple hasn’t come up with a backup solution for the whole ecosystem.
I am also skeptical. All of this talk about virtualization, Rosetta, etc. Very reminiscent of when we went from PowerPC to Intel. The difference is, going to Intel was a boon because suddenly we had Macs that could run linux, Windows, etc. It was great, and I promptly tossed my Windows machine out a window.
Now? We're going in the opposite direction, hoping all of these virtualization technologies won't take a bit performance hit (I've got news. They always do!). He's talking about getting linux running on a mac, which is great, but are we talking about custom ARM builds? There are only a limited number of distros (granted, all my favorites are there) and even then having ARM support doesn't by any means guarantee compatibility with your arm processor. Nothing has been built for Apple's chips that I know of (yet).
And graphics performance? Anyone here really think Apple is going to magically be able to compete with nVidia hardware, with on-the-fly ray tracing support? I find it hard to swallow. We will need to get AMD or nVidia to create drivers for OSX I suppose if we have their gpu's at all.
Then we have the question of native performance. Until I see some benchmarks I will reserve judgment. I'll be very happy indeed if they can get their chips to compete with the latest Ryzen cpus.
Just so I'm not sounding too negative, I am very excited for the common development across iOS and OSX. This should bring a ton of software across both platforms.
While xCode is huge with iOS development, I am not aware of those outside of that ecosystem being big fans. This turns on getting everyone to use it, no? Otherwise we aren't going to see as many apps from Windows developers who wanted to go cross-platform, but don't want to switch IDE's.
Well it’s OSXI now isn’t it? Personally I’ll probably get one as long as my go to apps have native versions which appears to be the case.
WWDC was a very boring and a major disappointment because no hardware was announced as rumored! I fell asleep watching this 1 1/2 hour of the Craig Federighi stand up comedy audition! I do not trust anything this software engineer claims because anything Apple tries with software always does not work in the beginning until several updates later! Time to look at another computer brand because Apple is going to destroy their already limited line up!
Comments
I think it's interesting to see where this hardware race ends up and how different applications adapt. It's true, Apple did have options, but I'm curious to see what type of hardware they can create over the coming years and how well the software integrates with it.
Let’s not assume that this will lead to any kind of price reduction across the board. The R&D on this stuff needs to be paid for.
Then nothing has changed. You should always pick the machine that best fits your needs, and if you’re emotionally wedded to Intel/AMD rather than the actual capabilities of the machine they’re fitted to, then you should get off the platform now.
Seems obviously simple. They will have a common architecture and will be able to use all inputs on apps because they will come over with Catylist.
At heart iPadOS should be more macOS than iOS anyway.
Apple hit problems with PowerPC
Apple hit problems with Intel
At some point you have realise that only you care enough about what you’re trying to do to make sure you have all the pieces in place to do it.
I hope they do all their WWDC keynotes like this from now on. Product announcements are different, but developers just need the facts and the specs. I think this format works very well.