Apple Silicon Macs are needed for consumers and pro users alike

Posted:
in General Discussion edited November 2020
Apple Silicon Macs are taking their design and technology cues from the iPhone -- and that's a move which will benefit all Mac users.

Craig Federighi demonstrating the performance of Apple Silicon
Craig Federighi demonstrating the performance of Apple Silicon


Speaking in June 2020 at WWDC, Apple CEO Tim Cook was clear that it's going to take two years before every Mac is running on Apple Silicon. That also means it will be at least two years and probably a little more before every type of Mac user will see the change.

From the casual consumer, especially ones used to iOS, to the pro user, every customer is going to gain -- eventually. People who've just spent $50,000 on a Mac Pro might have cause to grumble, but they really don't need to, as that powerhouse isn't going to light on fire spontaneously after the Apple Silicon arrives, and it will still be supported for years to come.

So do expect some complaints, and also expect some bargain Intel-based Mac Pro machines to turn up on eBay. However, it's not that anyone need ditch their current Intel Mac, nor should anyone should put off buying one if they need it now.

"We plan to continue to support and release new versions of macOS for Intel-based Macs for years to come," said Cook in his WWDC 2020 keynote segment about Apple Silicon. "In fact, we have some new Intel-based Macs in the pipeline that we're really excited about."

Doubtlessly that's true, it's not something Apple would make up, but equally doubtlessly any new Intel Mac is going to have a hard time competing with the promise we've just been shown of Apple Silicon. We won't truly know the real-world benefit of the move until machines are available, but that promise is huge.

"When we make bold changes," said Cook, "it's for one simple and powerful reason. [It's] so we can make much better products."

The promises being made for Apple Silicon

Some of Apple's WWDC promises are marketing, and some are not. Which are which will vary greatly depending on the user, but Apple is trying to make sure that everybody is going to be served.

"We want to make sure that users can run all of their apps on day one, even if some apps haven't yet been updated," said Craig Federighi. Consequently, macOS Big Sur on Apple Silicon will include Rosetta 2, a system for making Intel apps work on the new processor.

"Rosetta 2 automatically translates your existing Mac apps, so they work on new Macs, with Apple Silicon," continued Federighi. "It translates the apps when you install them, so they can launch immediately and be instantly responsive."

This works with any Intel Mac app, it is not confined to ones you download from the Mac App Store. So Apple is trying to cover everyone's needs -- and that includes power users who want more than macOS on their machines.

"We're also introducing a new virtualization technologies in Mac OS Big Sur," said Federighi. "So for developers who want to run other environments like Linux or tools like Docker, we have you covered."

There are still a lot of questions about how well Rosetta 2 will work, beyond the practical demonstrations of Maya, and "Rise of the Tomb Raider" during the WWDC keynote, and a few other titles in the State of the Platform presentation afterwards. The full tale is still yet to be told, and we'll be discussing it far more detail as things evolve.

Apple and Apple Silicon fundamentals

"When we look ahead," said Tim Cook, "we envision some amazing new products and transitioning to our own custom silicon is [what] will enable us to bring them to life. At Apple, integrating hardware and software is fundamental to everything we do. That's what makes our products so great, and silicon is at the heart of our hardware. So having a world-class silicon design team is a game changer."

Johny Srouji, Apple's senior vice president of Hardware Technologies
Johny Srouji, Apple's senior vice president of Hardware Technologies


If straight power is the headline, though, Apple insists that there is much more to the new Apple Silicon than that. Specifically, performance comes from more than just the power of the new System on a Chip (SOCs), it comes from the company's ability to leverage what it has learned from the iPhone and iPad.

"Much better performance is reason enough to transition the Mac to Apple SOCs," says Johny Srouji, senior vice president of Hardware Technologies. "But that's just part of the story. Our scalable architecture includes many custom technologies that will integrate with our software to bring even more innovation to the Mac."

"With our advanced power management," he continued, "we will maximize performance and battery life better than ever before... and our high-performing GPU is going to bring a whole new level of graphics performance to every Mac, making them even better for pro applications."

If a single glance at the macOS 10.16 Big Sur redesign doesn't make it clear that the iPhone has heavily influenced the Mac, Srouji does. While the original iPhone was not just inspired by the Mac, it actually ran Mac OS X, the Mac is now borrowing back from the phone in both design and technology.

Apple's macOS Big Sur takes a lot of design cues from iOS
Apple's macOS Big Sur takes a lot of design cues from iOS


"It all started with the iPhone," says Srouji. "The iPhone demanded performance and capabilities that were seen as impossible [in] any device that small. This is where we developed our relentless focus on performance per watt. Generation after generation we push the boundaries of technology would enable us to improve performance and energy efficiency, while building advanced and industry leading features."

"[The next opportunity] was the iPad," he continued. "While iPhone chips could drive our missing iPads, we wanted to push the iPad, even further. It began with the iPad's Retina display which demanded a custom chip. So the teams scaled our architecture and designed the most optimised and highest performance ship possible for the iPad."

An Apple Silicon Mac is still a Mac

Apple's presentation didn't just keep finding new ways to say that the future will be better and faster with Apple Silicon. It also looked to the past, and it did so in part to underline that this is still going to be the Mac we all know.

"From the very beginning," said Tim Cook, "the mac redefined the entire computer industry. The Mac has always been about innovation and boldly pushing things forward, embracing big changes to stay at the forefront of personal computing."

It's really been the iPhone that has been at the forefront of personal computing for the last decade, though. Plus, having designed generation after generation of processors for the iPhone and iPad, those Apple devices consistently outperform apparently similarly powered rivals.

Consequently, when Intel was falling behind on its own road map plans, the fact that Apple had such high performance and low energy-using chips had to make the new transition appealing.

Once upon a time, the iPhone was sold because people liked the iPod and the Mac. That was a long time ago, and Apple says that the road to an Apple Silicon Mac started at about the same time that the iPhone started bringing people to the Mac, instead of the other way around. Now, the very technologies and the very design principles that make the iPhone so successful are coming to make the Mac better.

And it looks like we'll get our first full look at that on November 10 during Apple's "one more thing" event.

Keep up with AppleInsider by downloading the AppleInsider app for iOS, and follow us on YouTube, Twitter @appleinsider and Facebook for live, late-breaking coverage. You can also check out our official Instagram account for exclusive photos.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 82
    swineoneswineone Posts: 66member
    "This works with any Intel Mac app" [quoted from the article, regarding Rosetta 2]

    Are you sure? Does that include Parallels running x86-64 Windows? It's quite telling that they mentioned Rosetta and virtualization, yet made no mention of this, which could alleviate concerns on many pro users' minds (myself included).
    williamlondonlkruppprismatics
  • Reply 2 of 82
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member

    So do expect some complaints, and also expect some bargain Intel-based Mac Pro machines to turn up on eBay. However, it's not that anyone need ditch their current Intel Mac, nor should anyone should put off buying one if they need it now.



    Something I've never understood about some users. Your current machine is running perfectly fine, it's fast and it does what you want it to very well. Now something new and different comes along and somehow, someway , the machine you are using becomes an obsolete piece of crap not worth keeping. And you blame Apple for bringing out a new technology before you are damn good and ready for it. You rage at Apple for making your perfectly fine machine 'useless'. 
    williamlondonRayz2016zoetmbwatto_cobrakillroypscooter63smiffy31beowulfschmidtdocno42
  • Reply 3 of 82
    KITAKITA Posts: 409member
    No mention on if the first ARM macOS computers will be ARMv9. Hopefully they are, otherwise it would be a bit odd when the transition is so soon.
    williamlondonlkrupp
  • Reply 4 of 82
    pslicepslice Posts: 153member
    Is Apple going to offer an AppleCare extension to bridge Intel users to the Apple Silicon? My AppleCare expired on 6/15. I had hoped Apple would announce new iMacs. Right now I feel naked without AppleCare coverage.

    watto_cobrakillroy
  • Reply 5 of 82
    swineoneswineone Posts: 66member
    lkrupp said:

    So do expect some complaints, and also expect some bargain Intel-based Mac Pro machines to turn up on eBay. However, it's not that anyone need ditch their current Intel Mac, nor should anyone should put off buying one if they need it now.



    Something I've never understood about some users. Your current machine is running perfectly fine, it's fast and it does what you want it to very well. Now something new and different comes along and somehow, someway , the machine you are using becomes an obsolete piece of crap not worth keeping. And you blame Apple for bringing out a new technology before you are damn good and ready for it. You rage at Apple for making your perfectly fine machine 'useless'. 
    When you invest a substantial amount of money in some pro gear, you hardly do so with the expectation to use it for a couple of years and then discard it. In fact you sell it for a good fraction of what you paid for it. That's part of the economic calculation of buying a piece of pro gear.

    Now suddenly your pro gear uses a fundamentally incompatible architecture, which will be supported for "some (unstated amount of) years". There's no guarantee developers will continue performing software maintenance for the Intel port, or even Apple itself, for that matter. Now your expensive pro gear may not last as long as you initially planned, and by the time you sell it, it will probably be worthless. I mean really, if you paid upwards of $10,000 on a Mac Pro recently (quite easy with CPU, RAM, storage and GPU upgrades), who's going to pay more than, say, $3,000 or $4,000 for it in three years, knowing the fate of Intel hardware?

    Compare that to other pro gear. I work with electronics design, where you can get upgrades for decades-old test equipment from the likes of Keysight, Fluke or Tektronix. An HP 3458A DMM, the gold standard in high-precision metrology, is a design from 1989 (IIRC) which holds its value quite well, and is still sold today with minimal, user-facing changes only. The lens mounts for DSLR cameras are the same for decades, you can use a good lens from the previous century on a current Canon or Nikon camera. I know computer technology is faster paced than this, but still, the timeframes in the pro market are quite different from the consumer market.

    If Apple really cared about its pro users, they should have stated Mac Pros will be supported by macOS and pro apps for, at the very least, 5 years, and for them to keep a modicum of resale value, 10 years. They could go even further by requiring fat Intel/ARM builds in the Mac App Store for a similar amount of time, but macOS and pro app support for 5-10 years is the bare minimum.
    williamlondonlkruppmuthuk_vanalingamrotateleftbyteelijahgprismatics
  • Reply 6 of 82
    swineoneswineone Posts: 66member
    pslice said:
    Is Apple going to offer an AppleCare extension to bridge Intel users to the Apple Silicon? My AppleCare expired on 6/15. I had hoped Apple would announce new iMacs. Right now I feel naked without AppleCare coverage.

    You want Apple to replace parts for free on an 8-year old computer? Does that sound reasonable?

    EDIT: OK, looks like I made a mistake, I read that as June of 2015, but you probably meant June 15th, 2020.

    Either way I don't think they'll offer an extension for free. Maybe they could sell an extended Apple Care at a considerably higher rate (3-5 year old computers fail more often than 1-3 year old ones), but I don't expect them to do so.
    edited June 2020 williamlondontmay
  • Reply 7 of 82
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,599member
    swineone said:
    "This works with any Intel Mac app" [quoted from the article, regarding Rosetta 2]

    Are you sure? Does that include Parallels running x86-64 Windows? It's quite telling that they mentioned Rosetta and virtualization, yet made no mention of this, which could alleviate concerns on many pro users' minds (myself included).
    I doubt they meant that. But as Apple has said, only 2% of Macs coming in for service had Windows installed in Bootcamp. How many are using Parallels or other virtualization software with Windows, I don’t know, but it’s not a lot. I have it too, but I haven’t run Windows for more than a year. I still do Run Linux occasionally though. So likely, from what I hear, that’s more important.

    i doubt I’d too many pro users use Windows on their Mac these days. It’s mostly used by gamers.
    lkruppRayz2016Flytrapfastasleepwatto_cobrapscooter63docno42jony0
  • Reply 8 of 82
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,599member

    pslice said:
    Is Apple going to offer an AppleCare extension to bridge Intel users to the Apple Silicon? My AppleCare expired on 6/15. I had hoped Apple would announce new iMacs. Right now I feel naked without AppleCare coverage.

    No manufacturer cares about an owner of such an old machine. It’s time to think about buying a new one. If you can’t afford one, buy a newer model that’s used or refurbished.
    fastasleepargonaut
  • Reply 9 of 82
    swineoneswineone Posts: 66member
    melgross said:
    swineone said:
    "This works with any Intel Mac app" [quoted from the article, regarding Rosetta 2]

    Are you sure? Does that include Parallels running x86-64 Windows? It's quite telling that they mentioned Rosetta and virtualization, yet made no mention of this, which could alleviate concerns on many pro users' minds (myself included).
    I doubt they meant that. But as Apple has said, only 2% of Macs coming in for service had Windows installed in Bootcamp. How many are using Parallels or other virtualization software with Windows, I don’t know, but it’s not a lot. I have it too, but I haven’t run Windows for more than a year. I still do Run Linux occasionally though. So likely, from what I hear, that’s more important.

    i doubt I’d too many pro users use Windows on their Mac these days. It’s mostly used by gamers.
    I have zero games on my Windows installation under Parallels. I do have EDA software (electronics simulation, schematic capture, PCB routing, FPGAs, etc.), test & measurement software to interface with electronics T&M gear, MCAD software, software development apps (Visual Studio, the real one not the toy Code version, plus various embedded software tools), etc.

    Another group of people will have in-house apps that are Windows only.

    Maybe in your line of work pro users don't need Windows software. It doesn't mean no one else does.
    cloudguyargonaut
  • Reply 10 of 82
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,121member
    Windows is a requirement for me.  There’s no way around it and Apple makes the best Windows machine around for my use case.   I use VMware and it was the primary reason I jumped to Apple way back when.

    It’s exciting stuff for sure.  I was planning on buying a new iMac this year, but now I’m going to pause on that to see what’s coming and how the market reacts to it.
    williamlondonfastasleepwatto_cobraprismaticsargonaut
  • Reply 11 of 82
    swineone said:
    melgross said:
    swineone said:
    "This works with any Intel Mac app" [quoted from the article, regarding Rosetta 2]

    Are you sure? Does that include Parallels running x86-64 Windows? It's quite telling that they mentioned Rosetta and virtualization, yet made no mention of this, which could alleviate concerns on many pro users' minds (myself included).
    I doubt they meant that. But as Apple has said, only 2% of Macs coming in for service had Windows installed in Bootcamp. How many are using Parallels or other virtualization software with Windows, I don’t know, but it’s not a lot. I have it too, but I haven’t run Windows for more than a year. I still do Run Linux occasionally though. So likely, from what I hear, that’s more important.

    i doubt I’d too many pro users use Windows on their Mac these days. It’s mostly used by gamers.
    I have zero games on my Windows installation under Parallels. I do have EDA software (electronics simulation, schematic capture, PCB routing, FPGAs, etc.), test & measurement software to interface with electronics T&M gear, MCAD software, software development apps (Visual Studio, the real one not the toy Code version, plus various embedded software tools), etc.

    Another group of people will have in-house apps that are Windows only.

    Maybe in your line of work pro users don't need Windows software. It doesn't mean no one else does.
    Ditto for me too.... 
    williamlondonprismaticsargonaut
  • Reply 12 of 82
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,283member
    melgross said:
    swineone said:
    "This works with any Intel Mac app" [quoted from the article, regarding Rosetta 2]

    Are you sure? Does that include Parallels running x86-64 Windows? It's quite telling that they mentioned Rosetta and virtualization, yet made no mention of this, which could alleviate concerns on many pro users' minds (myself included).
    I doubt they meant that. But as Apple has said, only 2% of Macs coming in for service had Windows installed in Bootcamp. How many are using Parallels or other virtualization software with Windows, I don’t know, but it’s not a lot. I have it too, but I haven’t run Windows for more than a year. I still do Run Linux occasionally though. So likely, from what I hear, that’s more important.

    i doubt I’d too many pro users use Windows on their Mac these days. It’s mostly used by gamers.
    I went back through the Keynote and at the 1:40:11 mark, Docker (docker.com) was shown running Linux. At the 1:41:58 mark Parallels was shown running Debian. Craig said all macOS Big Sur demoes were run on an AS Mac so I assume it's either the AS Mac mini or another development AS Mac. Parallels has made some big changes in ver 15 but I run VMWare Fusion so haven't looked at Parallels for a long time. Anyway, at this point in the keynote they were talking about Rosetta 2 so I assume they simply installed Parallels ver 15 and it converted it to run on Apple Silicon. They didn't show Windows running but that's really Parallels and Dockers responsibility to provide the hardware interface between Windows and the host platform. It appears this is working but as everyone (else) wants to know, will it run Windows. We'll have to wait for the first developer to try it on the developer kit.

    One other thing. I checked the serial number of the AS Mac mini in the keynote and it says "We’re sorry, but this serial number isn’t valid. Please check your information and try again." I don't remember if this was simply a faked screen shot or if Craig did an About this Mac and it showed up. Apple could also be blocking certain serial numbers.
    edited June 2020 williamlondontmaywatto_cobraGG1pscooter63argonaut
  • Reply 13 of 82
    swineoneswineone Posts: 66member
    rob53 said:
    melgross said:
    swineone said:
    "This works with any Intel Mac app" [quoted from the article, regarding Rosetta 2]

    Are you sure? Does that include Parallels running x86-64 Windows? It's quite telling that they mentioned Rosetta and virtualization, yet made no mention of this, which could alleviate concerns on many pro users' minds (myself included).
    I doubt they meant that. But as Apple has said, only 2% of Macs coming in for service had Windows installed in Bootcamp. How many are using Parallels or other virtualization software with Windows, I don’t know, but it’s not a lot. I have it too, but I haven’t run Windows for more than a year. I still do Run Linux occasionally though. So likely, from what I hear, that’s more important.

    i doubt I’d too many pro users use Windows on their Mac these days. It’s mostly used by gamers.
    I went back through the Keynote and at the 1:40:11 mark, Docker (docker.com) was shown running Linux. At the 1:41:58 mark Parallels was shown running Debian. Craig said all macOS Big Sur demoes were run on an AS Mac so I assume it's either the AS Mac mini or another development AS Mac. Parallels has made some big changes in ver 15 but I run VMWare Fusion so haven't looked at Parallels for a long time. Anyway, at this point in the keynote they were talking about Rosetta 2 so I assume they simply installed Parallels ver 15 and it converted it to run on Apple Silicon. They didn't show Windows running but that's really Parallels and Dockers responsibility to provide the hardware interface between Windows and the host platform. It appears this is working but as everyone (else) wants to know, will it run Windows. We'll have to wait for the first developer to try it on the developer kit.

    One other thing. I checked the serial number of the AS Mac mini in the keynote and it says "We’re sorry, but this serial number isn’t valid. Please check your information and try again." I don't remember if this was simply a faked screen shot or if Craig did an About this Mac and it showed up. Apple could also be blocking certain serial numbers.
    While I hope you’re right, they were quite explicit to mention the game as an Intel binary. They never did the same for Parallels. So it’s possible that it’s a Parallels ARM port. Evidently Linux runs on ARM as well, and I assume Docker also does, so either wouldn’t be a roadblock.

    Overall they were quite vague with the wording during the keynote, so it’s a coin toss as to whether it was running Linux on ARM or Linux on Intel.
    tmayfastasleepargonaut
  • Reply 14 of 82
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,599member
    swineone said:
    melgross said:
    swineone said:
    "This works with any Intel Mac app" [quoted from the article, regarding Rosetta 2]

    Are you sure? Does that include Parallels running x86-64 Windows? It's quite telling that they mentioned Rosetta and virtualization, yet made no mention of this, which could alleviate concerns on many pro users' minds (myself included).
    I doubt they meant that. But as Apple has said, only 2% of Macs coming in for service had Windows installed in Bootcamp. How many are using Parallels or other virtualization software with Windows, I don’t know, but it’s not a lot. I have it too, but I haven’t run Windows for more than a year. I still do Run Linux occasionally though. So likely, from what I hear, that’s more important.

    i doubt I’d too many pro users use Windows on their Mac these days. It’s mostly used by gamers.
    I have zero games on my Windows installation under Parallels. I do have EDA software (electronics simulation, schematic capture, PCB routing, FPGAs, etc.), test & measurement software to interface with electronics T&M gear, MCAD software, software development apps (Visual Studio, the real one not the toy Code version, plus various embedded software tools), etc.

    Another group of people will have in-house apps that are Windows only.

    Maybe in your line of work pro users don't need Windows software. It doesn't mean no one else does.
    And those like you consist of what, 0.5% of Apple’s user base?
    tmaypscooter63
  • Reply 15 of 82
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,599member

    rob53 said:
    melgross said:
    swineone said:
    "This works with any Intel Mac app" [quoted from the article, regarding Rosetta 2]

    Are you sure? Does that include Parallels running x86-64 Windows? It's quite telling that they mentioned Rosetta and virtualization, yet made no mention of this, which could alleviate concerns on many pro users' minds (myself included).
    I doubt they meant that. But as Apple has said, only 2% of Macs coming in for service had Windows installed in Bootcamp. How many are using Parallels or other virtualization software with Windows, I don’t know, but it’s not a lot. I have it too, but I haven’t run Windows for more than a year. I still do Run Linux occasionally though. So likely, from what I hear, that’s more important.

    i doubt I’d too many pro users use Windows on their Mac these days. It’s mostly used by gamers.
    I went back through the Keynote and at the 1:40:11 mark, Docker (docker.com) was shown running Linux. At the 1:41:58 mark Parallels was shown running Debian. Craig said all macOS Big Sur demoes were run on an AS Mac so I assume it's either the AS Mac mini or another development AS Mac. Parallels has made some big changes in ver 15 but I run VMWare Fusion so haven't looked at Parallels for a long time. Anyway, at this point in the keynote they were talking about Rosetta 2 so I assume they simply installed Parallels ver 15 and it converted it to run on Apple Silicon. They didn't show Windows running but that's really Parallels and Dockers responsibility to provide the hardware interface between Windows and the host platform. It appears this is working but as everyone (else) wants to know, will it run Windows. We'll have to wait for the first developer to try it on the developer kit.

    One other thing. I checked the serial number of the AS Mac mini in the keynote and it says "We’re sorry, but this serial number isn’t valid. Please check your information and try again." I don't remember if this was simply a faked screen shot or if Craig did an About this Mac and it showed up. Apple could also be blocking certain serial numbers.
    Parallels doesn’t present any “hardware” interface. All they do is to allow An OS to run in their virtualized environment. But that an x86 environment. Of course, Microsoft has Windows for ARM. But that also a native ARM implementation, which requires developers to redo their software for ARM. So it’s not “really” Windows. If parallels could run windows, even poorly right now, I think Apple would have mentioned that it was being worked on. If Microsoft was working to get it working natively on the new Macs, then it would have been mentioned. It’s too obvious a feature to just ignore.
  • Reply 16 of 82
    bloggerblogbloggerblog Posts: 2,500member
    swineone said:
    "This works with any Intel Mac app" [quoted from the article, regarding Rosetta 2]

    Are you sure? Does that include Parallels running x86-64 Windows? It's quite telling that they mentioned Rosetta and virtualization, yet made no mention of this, which could alleviate concerns on many pro users' minds (myself included).
    By the time Apple switches to ARM, Windows would have a better version on ARM as well. 
    williamlondontmay
  • Reply 17 of 82
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,906member
    swineone said:
    When you invest a substantial amount of money in some pro gear, you hardly do so with the expectation to use it for a couple of years and then discard it. In fact you sell it for a good fraction of what you paid for it. That's part of the economic calculation of buying a piece of pro gear.

    Yes it is. In the post facility where I once worked, we kept everys single Mac we ever bought for many, many years. We found other less critical uses for them. I had old Mac Pros as FTP servers, Quicktime streamers, database library machines, office computers, etc. etc.

    However, when you decide to force a sea change like this, you just have to do it. There is only so much you can do to keep old machines running. Plus, Apple will probably make more detailed statements later as to how long they plan to support Intel machines - both software and hardware. Giving intricate details during a keynote is not the forum for such information.

    edited June 2020 williamlondonwatto_cobrakillroybeowulfschmidtargonaut
  • Reply 18 of 82
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,283member
    melgross said:

    rob53 said:
    melgross said:
    swineone said:
    "This works with any Intel Mac app" [quoted from the article, regarding Rosetta 2]

    Are you sure? Does that include Parallels running x86-64 Windows? It's quite telling that they mentioned Rosetta and virtualization, yet made no mention of this, which could alleviate concerns on many pro users' minds (myself included).
    I doubt they meant that. But as Apple has said, only 2% of Macs coming in for service had Windows installed in Bootcamp. How many are using Parallels or other virtualization software with Windows, I don’t know, but it’s not a lot. I have it too, but I haven’t run Windows for more than a year. I still do Run Linux occasionally though. So likely, from what I hear, that’s more important.

    i doubt I’d too many pro users use Windows on their Mac these days. It’s mostly used by gamers.
    I went back through the Keynote and at the 1:40:11 mark, Docker (docker.com) was shown running Linux. At the 1:41:58 mark Parallels was shown running Debian. Craig said all macOS Big Sur demoes were run on an AS Mac so I assume it's either the AS Mac mini or another development AS Mac. Parallels has made some big changes in ver 15 but I run VMWare Fusion so haven't looked at Parallels for a long time. Anyway, at this point in the keynote they were talking about Rosetta 2 so I assume they simply installed Parallels ver 15 and it converted it to run on Apple Silicon. They didn't show Windows running but that's really Parallels and Dockers responsibility to provide the hardware interface between Windows and the host platform. It appears this is working but as everyone (else) wants to know, will it run Windows. We'll have to wait for the first developer to try it on the developer kit.

    One other thing. I checked the serial number of the AS Mac mini in the keynote and it says "We’re sorry, but this serial number isn’t valid. Please check your information and try again." I don't remember if this was simply a faked screen shot or if Craig did an About this Mac and it showed up. Apple could also be blocking certain serial numbers.
    Parallels doesn’t present any “hardware” interface. All they do is to allow An OS to run in their virtualized environment. But that an x86 environment. Of course, Microsoft has Windows for ARM. But that also a native ARM implementation, which requires developers to redo their software for ARM. So it’s not “really” Windows. If parallels could run windows, even poorly right now, I think Apple would have mentioned that it was being worked on. If Microsoft was working to get it working natively on the new Macs, then it would have been mentioned. It’s too obvious a feature to just ignore.
    Check out, https://www.parallels.com/blogs/apple-silicon-wwdc/ Of course the canned answer about Windows support is check the blog, which doesn't have anything new but it's still early. The FACT they worked with Apple on providing a special version of Parallels running on AS Mac means it wasn't simply started using Rosetta 2.

    "Apple’s Worldwide Developer Conference (WWDC) revealed many innovative developments, including a demo featuring a prototype of a forthcoming version of Parallels Desktop for Mac running on Mac with Apple Silicon."


    williamlondonjdb8167killroydocno42argonaut
  • Reply 19 of 82
    altivec88altivec88 Posts: 135member
    Although the keynote was very well thought out, the biggest issue is that they did not spend enough time on here and now.  Other than saying, we will support your intel purchases for "years" which technically means 2 or more.   Apple has pulled so many things out from under me, that my trust level is gone.   How many are going to go out and buy an expensive dead end computer with no resale value for only 2 years of use.  Again, it may not be two years, but Apple was being vague and should have come right out and gave us a number to quell those fears.   ie.  We will simultaneously be creating an intel version of the OS every year for a minimum of the next 5 years.  Without clarification, it's going to be a bumpy road for Mac Sales over the next couple of years.   What bothers me is that they are smart enough to know this but still purposely decided to be vague.  Hopefully the machine you want to buy isn't the last one to transition 2 years from now.  If you were expecting 5 years of use out of that, it means Apple would have to support and maintain intel software for 7 more years from today.  That's not going to happen, so someone (meaning you) is going to get shafted.   I know I won't be buying anymore intel Macs unless they clarify what "years" means and what "support" means.
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamprismaticsargonaut
  • Reply 20 of 82
    swineoneswineone Posts: 66member
    melgross said:
    swineone said:
    melgross said:
    swineone said:
    "This works with any Intel Mac app" [quoted from the article, regarding Rosetta 2]

    Are you sure? Does that include Parallels running x86-64 Windows? It's quite telling that they mentioned Rosetta and virtualization, yet made no mention of this, which could alleviate concerns on many pro users' minds (myself included).
    I doubt they meant that. But as Apple has said, only 2% of Macs coming in for service had Windows installed in Bootcamp. How many are using Parallels or other virtualization software with Windows, I don’t know, but it’s not a lot. I have it too, but I haven’t run Windows for more than a year. I still do Run Linux occasionally though. So likely, from what I hear, that’s more important.

    i doubt I’d too many pro users use Windows on their Mac these days. It’s mostly used by gamers.
    I have zero games on my Windows installation under Parallels. I do have EDA software (electronics simulation, schematic capture, PCB routing, FPGAs, etc.), test & measurement software to interface with electronics T&M gear, MCAD software, software development apps (Visual Studio, the real one not the toy Code version, plus various embedded software tools), etc.

    Another group of people will have in-house apps that are Windows only.

    Maybe in your line of work pro users don't need Windows software. It doesn't mean no one else does.
    And those like you consist of what, 0.5% of Apple’s user base?
    I hypothesize that those like me are 50% of the user base.

    Absurd, you say?

    Not any more than your figure. Both of us took these numbers straight out of our rear end.
    edited June 2020 williamlondonkillroylarryabeowulfschmidtargonaut
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