This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
No, it’s meaningless in the bigger picture. They are a Vine ripoff and they’ll be easily replaced.
You have no idea of what WeChat is, right?
They will never buy a device without WeChat in China and God knows in how many other countries either.
Apple will be hit hard, and they will fight hard against the ban, you can quote me on it.
The Vine reference applies to TikTok, genius.
Yep. Still, the main problem continues to be WeChat as someone expressed in this same thread.
Which made me think that switching to Android could mean to get completely out of the Apple environment eventually, which means even more trouble for Apple.
I don't know how this is so difficult to see. Anyway, Apple will fight this, believe me.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
The CCP no more controls TikToc than the Republican party controls Facebook. Actually, probably less so. That's just how it is.... Despite the dogma.
Forcing removal of apps from the US App Store is up to the US administration if they have cause. Forcing removal of apps from other countries is outside of their jurisdiction and I hope Apple fights it. Other countries have the right to determine what goes into or stays out of their App Store.
Simply put: Apple itself is not outside of their jurisdiction.
Then it would apply to Google and Android as well, not just Apple
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Android is owned by Google, I am sure Google will be ask to not sign banned apps on its Android software
Forcing removal of apps from the US App Store is up to the US administration if they have cause. Forcing removal of apps from other countries is outside of their jurisdiction and I hope Apple fights it. Other countries have the right to determine what goes into or stays out of their App Store.
Simply put: Apple itself is not outside of their jurisdiction.
Then it would apply to Google and Android as well, not just Apple
Their is no Play Store in China.
Google is affected in other ways. Like not having access to Huawei phones via GMS.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Android is owned by Google, I am sure Google will be ask to not sign banned apps on its Android software
There is the open source Android (sans GMS).
If this ban were to affect the licenced version of Google in China, it would have a devastating impact on the company as it could lead to Chinese vendors banding together at an OS level. They are already banding together on other levels.
I can't see this as anything other than an abuse of government powers.
It used to be that sovereign nations were aware of limitations on the sale of US products to third parties before purchase.
I think that's a reasonable approach to applying restrictions but changing the rules at short notice for doubtful reasons and in the concealed name of protectionism but claiming national security concerns AFTER the sale, well that can only end badly because countries and companies will only see the US as an unreliable entity willing to do anything to get its way. In that scenario, the US will find itself in isolation as the world shuns its products.
We've seen this with Huawei and now with Tik Tok. If WeChat is affected too, it won't be long before Tim Cook is dining at the White House to try and drive a message into Trump's head.
Get off that pedestal on that horse of yours; even the worst of what that racist orange might do is still less than what Winnie Xi has been doing all the time with that great firewall of his.
People can't react before they react, so any argument of yours along the lines of "but it was ok yesterday" is pretty much null and moot.
However, the US has now moved to an extraterritorial mode and is attempting to apply 'sanctions' on its opponents by restricting what companies in sovereign nations can do with their products, simply because even a small part of them use US technology.
Take a look at China's new HK security law. Specifically if you make anti-China comments related to Hong Kong anywhere in the world, you can be arrested for them in Hong Kong. Then we can get into Tibet, Taiwan and the South China Sea as well, if you like. Let's not go comparing each nation's "extraterritorial mode".
Yes when you step into Hong Kong. Otoh the US wanted to extradite Gary McKinnon for things he did in the UK. Also extraordinary rendition of “targets” that they can’t get extradite. So sorry, not sorry, but I don’t give a toss about US security concerns.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
If Apple is forced to remove WeChat, Google will similarly have remove it from their store. It’ll probably leave Huawei as one of the few sources.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Android is owned by Google, I am sure Google will be ask to not sign banned apps on its Android software
There is the open source Android (sans GMS).
If this ban were to affect the licenced version of Google in China, it would have a devastating impact on the company as it could lead to Chinese vendors banding together at an OS level. They are already banding together on other levels.
Yes, another undesirable consequence and a very dangerous one. A Chinese OS would be a replacement for China phones first but a few years down the road it could expand into the rest of the world, potentially threaten Apple and even Google.
I never used WeChat but I know how important it is for Chinese guys down there.
Again, a WeChat ban could end horrendously for Apple.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
If Apple is forced to remove WeChat, Google will similarly have remove it from their store. It’ll probably leave Huawei as one of the few sources.
Huawei has its own store doesn't it? Any ban would not affect their store nor any of the other foreign owned 3rd party stores AFAIK.
I can't see this as anything other than an abuse of government powers.
It used to be that sovereign nations were aware of limitations on the sale of US products to third parties before purchase.
I think that's a reasonable approach to applying restrictions but changing the rules at short notice for doubtful reasons and in the concealed name of protectionism but claiming national security concerns AFTER the sale, well that can only end badly because countries and companies will only see the US as an unreliable entity willing to do anything to get its way. In that scenario, the US will find itself in isolation as the world shuns its products.
We've seen this with Huawei and now with Tik Tok. If WeChat is affected too, it won't be long before Tim Cook is dining at the White House to try and drive a message into Trump's head.
Get off that pedestal on that horse of yours; even the worst of what that racist orange might do is still less than what Winnie Xi has been doing all the time with that great firewall of his.
People can't react before they react, so any argument of yours along the lines of "but it was ok yesterday" is pretty much null and moot.
However, the US has now moved to an extraterritorial mode and is attempting to apply 'sanctions' on its opponents by restricting what companies in sovereign nations can do with their products, simply because even a small part of them use US technology.
Take a look at China's new HK security law. Specifically if you make anti-China comments related to Hong Kong anywhere in the world, you can be arrested for them in Hong Kong. Then we can get into Tibet, Taiwan and the South China Sea as well, if you like. Let's not go comparing each nation's "extraterritorial mode".
Yes when you step into Hong Kong. Otoh the US wanted to extradite Gary McKinnon for things he did in the UK. Also extraordinary rendition of “targets” that they can’t get extradite. So sorry, not sorry, but I don’t give a toss about US security concerns.
"When you step into Hong Kong" isn't really correct; the Swedish citizen Gui Minhai was kidnapped from Thailand and taken into mainland China, and that was before the CCP had this national security law to refer to. He was kidnapped from a third country simply because his bookshop in Hong Kong was about to release a book with gossip the CCP found inconvenient.
So to the CCP the extraordinary conditions don't have to be that extraordinary; and there's no diplomacy with the other country, people are just disappeared from it, and then show up on Chinese television "confessing" to whatever they're forced to say.
I can't see this as anything other than an abuse of government powers.
It used to be that sovereign nations were aware of limitations on the sale of US products to third parties before purchase.
I think that's a reasonable approach to applying restrictions but changing the rules at short notice for doubtful reasons and in the concealed name of protectionism but claiming national security concerns AFTER the sale, well that can only end badly because countries and companies will only see the US as an unreliable entity willing to do anything to get its way. In that scenario, the US will find itself in isolation as the world shuns its products.
We've seen this with Huawei and now with Tik Tok. If WeChat is affected too, it won't be long before Tim Cook is dining at the White House to try and drive a message into Trump's head.
Get off that pedestal on that horse of yours; even the worst of what that racist orange might do is still less than what Winnie Xi has been doing all the time with that great firewall of his.
People can't react before they react, so any argument of yours along the lines of "but it was ok yesterday" is pretty much null and moot.
However, the US has now moved to an extraterritorial mode and is attempting to apply 'sanctions' on its opponents by restricting what companies in sovereign nations can do with their products, simply because even a small part of them use US technology.
Take a look at China's new HK security law. Specifically if you make anti-China comments related to Hong Kong anywhere in the world, you can be arrested for them in Hong Kong. Then we can get into Tibet, Taiwan and the South China Sea as well, if you like. Let's not go comparing each nation's "extraterritorial mode".
Yes when you step into Hong Kong. Otoh the US wanted to extradite Gary McKinnon for things he did in the UK. Also extraordinary rendition of “targets” that they can’t get extradite. So sorry, not sorry, but I don’t give a toss about US security concerns.
I would, but the only security involved here is Trump's. He's not going to let Young, American TikTok users humilaite him again. Plus, this who game is about throwing red meat (hate and fear) to his scared, gullible base.
Meanwhile, U.S. intelligence once again warns us that it is Russia that we have to worry about. I'll trust our intelligence services over Trump's political gamesmanship.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Android is owned by Google, I am sure Google will be ask to not sign banned apps on its Android software
There is the open source Android (sans GMS).
If this ban were to affect the licenced version of Google in China, it would have a devastating impact on the company as it could lead to Chinese vendors banding together at an OS level. They are already banding together on other levels.
Yes, another undesirable consequence and a very dangerous one. A Chinese OS would be a replacement for China phones first but a few years down the road it could expand into the rest of the world, potentially threaten Apple and even Google.
I never used WeChat but I know how important it is for Chinese guys down there.
Again, a WeChat ban could end horrendously for Apple.
That is exactly what the U.S. tech industry fears -- including and especially Trump's Huawei bans and his moves split the world in two: China will develop their own tech and the rest of the world will be forced to choose between the U.S. -- which only has dominance in finance at this point -- and China which dominates in pretty much all other ways.
Trump only looks at the how the near term will impact him - mostly the election. He doesn't care about anything else.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Android is owned by Google, I am sure Google will be ask to not sign banned apps on its Android software
There is the open source Android (sans GMS).
If this ban were to affect the licenced version of Google in China, it would have a devastating impact on the company as it could lead to Chinese vendors banding together at an OS level. They are already banding together on other levels.
Yes, another undesirable consequence and a very dangerous one. A Chinese OS would be a replacement for China phones first but a few years down the road it could expand into the rest of the world, potentially threaten Apple and even Google.
I never used WeChat but I know how important it is for Chinese guys down there.
Again, a WeChat ban could end horrendously for Apple.
That is exactly what the U.S. tech industry fears -- including and especially Trump's Huawei bans and his moves split the world in two: China will develop their own tech and the rest of the world will be forced to choose between the U.S. -- which only has dominance in finance at this point -- and China which dominates in pretty much all other ways.
Trump only looks at the how the near term will impact him - mostly the election. He doesn't care about anything else.
The orange man lives rent free in your head. You should seek help. Seriously, it's not healthy.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Android is owned by Google, I am sure Google will be ask to not sign banned apps on its Android software
There is the open source Android (sans GMS).
If this ban were to affect the licenced version of Google in China, it would have a devastating impact on the company as it could lead to Chinese vendors banding together at an OS level. They are already banding together on other levels.
Yes, another undesirable consequence and a very dangerous one. A Chinese OS would be a replacement for China phones first but a few years down the road it could expand into the rest of the world, potentially threaten Apple and even Google.
I never used WeChat but I know how important it is for Chinese guys down there.
Again, a WeChat ban could end horrendously for Apple.
That is exactly what the U.S. tech industry fears -- including and especially Trump's Huawei bans and his moves split the world in two: China will develop their own tech and the rest of the world will be forced to choose between the U.S. -- which only has dominance in finance at this point -- and China which dominates in pretty much all other ways.
Trump only looks at the how the near term will impact him - mostly the election. He doesn't care about anything else.
The orange man lives rent free in your head. You should seek help. Seriously, it's not healthy.
Most real Americans hate to see their democracy being undermined and the country led by a corrupt Conman who governs for his own benefit only.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Or they will have to use another app for contacting you.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
I’m not a fan of the CCP but I don’t see this as a good versus evil boycott that concerns my value system. For a nation that’s highly skeptical/critical of it’s government, I’ve to say Americans can be so easily riled up by their politicians.
It’s the US starting Cold War 2.0 on an emerging superpower that can threaten its dominance. Where data privacy is concerned, it’s not like the NSA can’t access my data if it really wanted to
What the USA does or doesn't do isn't relevant when talking about what the CCP actually is doing.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.
This Trump nonsense of sanctions, trade wars, and bravado will make Apple sales tank in China.
And probably, in any other country where TikTok and WeChat is popular.
Now if only Trump has a single proof of illegal behavior on ByteDance, which is funded by (among others) several American firms.
This. I’m not Chinese and have been as big a fan of Apple As anyone. I own most of apples products and paid services such as iCloud and music. Even as I look at some of the newer android phones with some envy I don’t see myself switching because of how invested I’m with apples ecosystem. But if Apple removed WeChat which I use for work (with Chinese and many around the world), I will have to get myself an android phone. And I think that will be the beginning of a move away from Apple.
Android is owned by Google, I am sure Google will be ask to not sign banned apps on its Android software
There is the open source Android (sans GMS).
If this ban were to affect the licenced version of Google in China, it would have a devastating impact on the company as it could lead to Chinese vendors banding together at an OS level. They are already banding together on other levels.
Yes, another undesirable consequence and a very dangerous one. A Chinese OS would be a replacement for China phones first but a few years down the road it could expand into the rest of the world, potentially threaten Apple and even Google.
I never used WeChat but I know how important it is for Chinese guys down there.
Again, a WeChat ban could end horrendously for Apple.
That is exactly what the U.S. tech industry fears -- including and especially Trump's Huawei bans and his moves split the world in two: China will develop their own tech and the rest of the world will be forced to choose between the U.S. -- which only has dominance in finance at this point -- and China which dominates in pretty much all other ways.
Trump only looks at the how the near term will impact him - mostly the election. He doesn't care about anything else.
The orange man lives rent free in your head. You should seek help. Seriously, it's not healthy.
Most real Americans hate to see their democracy being undermined and the country led by a corrupt Conman who governs for his own benefit only.
Comments
In the end it comes down to whether or not you are comfortable with going out of your way to make sure that you're only communicating via an app the CCP controls totally.
(I also used to have WeChat just for talking to people in China; but in the end it just seemed like too much of a compromise with my personal values. I do have the luxury of being my own boss, though.)
The CCP no more controls TikToc than the Republican party controls Facebook. Actually, probably less so. That's just how it is.... Despite the dogma.
Google is affected in other ways. Like not having access to Huawei phones via GMS.
If this ban were to affect the licenced version of Google in China, it would have a devastating impact on the company as it could lead to Chinese vendors banding together at an OS level. They are already banding together on other levels.
So to the CCP the extraordinary conditions don't have to be that extraordinary; and there's no diplomacy with the other country, people are just disappeared from it, and then show up on Chinese television "confessing" to whatever they're forced to say.
Simply using the phrase "光復香港，時代革命" is enough to qualify for a one-way trip into an unknown location somewhere in mainland China. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberate_Hong_Kong,_revolution_of_our_times#Impact_of_the_2020_national_security_law).
PS 光復香港，時代革命.
Meanwhile, U.S. intelligence once again warns us that it is Russia that we have to worry about. I'll trust our intelligence services over Trump's political gamesmanship.
That is exactly what the U.S. tech industry fears -- including and especially Trump's Huawei bans and his moves split the world in two: China will develop their own tech and the rest of the world will be forced to choose between the U.S. -- which only has dominance in finance at this point -- and China which dominates in pretty much all other ways.
Trump only looks at the how the near term will impact him - mostly the election. He doesn't care about anything else.
Most real Americans hate to see their democracy being undermined and the country led by a corrupt Conman who governs for his own benefit only.
Also, there's a difference between "maybe they could if they wanted to" when talking about the NSA, and the Chinese setup where everything in WeChat is run straight through party headquarters.