Apple joins tech companies in trying to halt WeChat ban

Posted:
in General Discussion
A number of major companies in the United States, including Apple, have called for the Trump administration to end an executive order that would see the banning of WeChat and TikTok in the country, under claims it would cause harm to US businesses trying to trade in China.




The executive order that is set to ban TikTok and WeChat from use in the United States under the guise of trying to create a "clean network" free of "untrusted Chinese apps" has led to some strong feedback from critics, but with the potential economic problems that could occur from the action, companies have now brought complaints straight to the White House.

In a call with White House officials on Tuesday, the Wall Street Journal reports more than a dozen multinational US companies have highlighted the potential issues they face with the Trump administration's ban, which is set to take place in September unless it is stopped. The ban of WeChat could undermine the competitiveness of US companies in the second-largest economy in the world, the group claim.

Participants in the call included Apple, as well as representatives from Ford, Goldman Sachs, Intel, Merck & Co, MetLife, Morgan Stanley, Procter & Gamble, the United Parcel Service, Walmart, and Disney, among others.

In the call, the companies wanted clarification over the meaning of the executive order, which would bar "any transaction that is related to WeChat" by Americans, though it is unknown what this exactly refers to as details were to be determined by the Commerce Department. The group hopes the definition of the order could be narrowed down before its implementation.

There has been some speculation that the ban could affect global app stores, with a White House document suggesting it is pushing for a ban of the apps from the App Store in non-US regions, including within China itself.

WeChat is a platform that boasts more than 1.2 billion users globally, with it being a central part of communications in China. The service, which conducts everything from marketing and communications to e-commerce and payments, is an important business tool in China, one that could be denied to US countries based on a broad understanding of the order.

"For those who don't live in China, they don't understand how vast the implications are if American companies aren't allowed to use it," advised Craig Allen of the U.S.-China Business Council. "They are going to be held at a severe disadvantage to every competitor."

For Apple, analyst Ming-Chi Kuo speculates the banning of WeChat could have a significant impact on iPhone sales globally, potentially inducing a drop of as much as 30% of global shipments.
«13

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 42
    ivanhivanh Posts: 597member
    Wake up, Apple!
    razorpitgordoncymagman1979hippo
  • Reply 2 of 42
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Apple needs to grasp the situation.   China simply has turned into a grand example of a hostile country.   They have far too many known programs to literally steal technology and of course the related spying programs.   It is hilarious that nobody at Apple has recognized that the worlds relationship with China is not sustainable.   Beyond that there is likely intelligence that Apple does't know about driving the Tik-Tok ban.

    In a nut shell Apple needs to stop making excuses and get out of China ASAP.
    razorpitgordoncysvanstrommagman1979SpamSandwichhippoivanh
  • Reply 3 of 42
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,169member
    The US has basically claimed China itself is a 'bad' state. Let's forget for a moment about Huawei, Tik Tok and WeChat.

    We also had the famous 'I hearby order...' tweet. 

    The US, if it truly believes China is untrustworthy, should break off ALL trade with China and stop cherry picking specific areas in trade deals. 

    China does have a terrible human rights record in some areas but if you actually dig into these things, few nations come up clean and the US really isn't in the best position to justify these 'sanctions' seeing it has been accused of human rights violation on home soil and abroad for longer than I can remember. 

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/united-states

    The Couso affair (document in Spanish) is a damning condemnation of human rights abuse, manipulation, cover up and potential war crimes by the US government. 

    http://www.revista-redi.es/en/articulos/the-couso-affair-in-the-national-courts-and-international-relations/

    This isn't to single out the US. Most nations have similar cases (in the hundreds). It is to say the US shouldn't waving the 'democracy' flag around and preaching when it has one of the worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states. 


    edited August 2020 Ofermuthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMacjony0
  • Reply 4 of 42
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,092member
    wizard69 said:
    Apple needs to grasp the situation.   China simply has turned into a grand example of a hostile country.   They have far too many known programs to literally steal technology and of course the related spying programs.   It is hilarious that nobody at Apple has recognized that the worlds relationship with China is not sustainable.   Beyond that there is likely intelligence that Apple does't know about driving the Tik-Tok ban.

    In a nut shell Apple needs to stop making excuses and get out of China ASAP.
    You're the one who needs to grasp the situation.  If China was stealing Apple's technology, and pulling out of China would stop that, then Apple would do it.  There is zero evidence that China is stealing Apple's technology, and zero evidence that China uses WeChat to steal technology from any US company. 

    But under your illogical reasoning, Apple should ignore the lack of any evidence, and simply stop doing business in China based on the rants of madman who will be out of office come January, or the generalized vague allegation that China "is a bad state."

    Before you start typing furiously away at your keyboard, gather up your evidence (facts) that support WeChat is used to steal US technology, and one example of the "many known programs to literally steal technology and of course the related spying programs."


    OferGeorgeBMacjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 42
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,716member
    avon b7 said:
    The US has basically claimed China itself is a 'bad' state. Let's forget for a moment about Huawei, Tik Tok and WeChat.

    We also had the famous 'I hearby order...' tweet. 

    The US, if it truly believes China is untrustworthy, should break off ALL trade with China and stop cherry picking specific areas in trade deals. 

    China does have a terrible human rights record in some areas but if you actually dig into these things, few nations come up clean and the US really isn't in the best position to justify these 'sanctions' seeing it has been accused of human rights violation on home soil and abroad for longer than I can remember. 

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/united-states

    The Couso affair (document in Spanish) is a damning condemnation of human rights abuse, manipulation, cover up and potential war crimes by the US government. 

    http://www.revista-redi.es/en/articulos/the-couso-affair-in-the-national-courts-and-international-relations/

    This isn't to single out the US. Most nations have similar cases (in the hundreds). It is to say the US shouldn't waving the 'democracy' flag around and preaching when it has one of the worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states. 


    You conveniently forgot to post the link to China;

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/china-and-tibet

    I don't necessarily agree with CATO, but as a start to "freedom" score,

    The U.S. ranks 15,

    Spain 29

    China 126

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2020/leaderless-struggle-democracy

    Spain 92

    U.S.. 86

    China 10

    What they state about China;

    "Beijing’s totalitarian atrocities and global ambitions

    One of the year’s most appalling examples of domestic repression—made more frightening by the absence of a coordinated international response—was the Chinese Communist Party’s ongoing campaign of cultural annihilation in Xinjiang. Mass violations of the basic freedoms of millions of Uighurs and other Muslim minorities in the region, which were first brought to light in 2017, continued in 2019, with hundreds of thousands of people sentenced to prison or detained for forced indoctrination. The crackdown also included forced labor, the confinement of detained Muslims’ children in state-run boarding schools, and draconian bans on ordinary religious expression.

    Beijing claimed in December that the mass detentions had ended, but evidence from leaked government documents and victims’ relatives contradicted the assertion. Even if it were true, conditions for residents would not be greatly improved. The deployment of tens of thousands of security officers and state-of-the-art surveillance systems enable constant monitoring of the general population, converting Xinjiang into a dystopian open-air prison. 

    These policies have contributed to China’s ranking as one of the 15 worst-performing countries in Freedom in the World 2020, and one of only 11 countries that Freedom House flagged for evidence of ethnic cleansing or some other form of forced demographic change.

    The Communist Party’s totalitarian offensive in Xinjiang is the product of decades of experience in persecuting ethnic and religious minorities, combining coercive measures and technological developments that were previously applied to Tibetans, Falun Gong practitioners, and others. There are already signs that similar techniques will be expanded to China’s entire population. Examples in 2019 included a requirement for telecommunications companies to perform facial scans on all new internet or mobile phone subscribers, and reports that local authorities nationwide were purchasing equipment for mass collection and analysis of citizens’ DNA. Chinese officials are routinely promoted and transferred based on the perceived effectiveness of their repressive efforts, meaning both the technology and the personnel tested in Xinjiang are likely to spread across the country.

    The United States and other democracies have made some important diplomatic statements against the repression in Xinjiang, and the Trump administration has imposed sanctions on specific Chinese entities associated with the campaign. But in general the world’s democracies have taken few steps to rally international opposition or apply meaningful collective pressure to halt China’s rights abuses, and elected leaders in Europe and elsewhere have often been tepid in their public criticism. Many undemocratic governments have been similarly mute or even supported Beijing, including those in countries that have received Chinese loans and other investments. The pattern of de facto impunity bolsters China’s broader efforts to demand recognition as a global leader and aids its relentless campaign to replace existing international norms with its own authoritarian vision.

    Donald Trump and Xi Jinping
    US president Donald Trump poses for a photo with Chinese president Xi Jinping during a meeting on the sidelines of the G-20 summit in Osaka, Japan. Editorial Credit: Susan Walsh/AP/Shutterstock.

     

    One aspect of this more assertive foreign policy that gained prominence in 2019 was Beijing’s apparent interventions in democratic elections. As with past Russian intrusions in the United States and elsewhere, China was suspected of sponsoring the spread of disinformation to create confusion around candidates and policies ahead of Taiwan’s January 2020 elections. The strategy may have backfired in this instance; domestic fears about Chinese encroachment helped the incumbent president defeat a more Beijing-friendly rival. Earlier, Chinese authorities were accused in November of seeking to fund a businessman’s election to Australia’s Parliament, and New Zealand’s intelligence chief spoke publicly about potential foreign influence on domestic politicians in April, a few months after the country’s opposition leader was accused of improperly hiding Chinese donations. 

    Beyond the context of elections, Freedom House research has shown that Chinese transnationalcensorship and propaganda activities are accelerating worldwide. For example, dozens of Swedish news outlets and journalists have been denounced by the Chinese embassy in that country for their reporting on China. Even a Russian newspaper was threatened with visa denials if it did not take down an article that mentioned China’s weakening economy. Beijing has also used paid online trolls to distort content on global social media platforms that are blocked in China itself, with tactics including the demonization of political enemies like Hong Kong’s prodemocracy protesters on Facebook and Twitter, and the manipulation of content-ranking systems on Google, Reddit, and YouTube. And the Chinese government is gaining influence over crucial parts of other countries’ information infrastructure through companies that manage digital television broadcasting and communications on mobile devices.

    The past year featured a new wave of pushback against certain aspects of China’s global ambitions, with public resistance to the harmful effects of Chinese investment projects intensifying in host countries, and some politicians growing more vocal about protecting national interests against Beijing’s encroachment. Nevertheless, piecemeal responses are unlikely to deter the Chinese leadership in the long term."

    Your attempt to compare the human rights records of the U.S. against China fails because the U.S. absolutely does not have one of the "worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states."

    Your fealty to China is noted.

    For the record, the U.S. will have a new Presidential Election this fall, and has the opportunity to either keep the existing administration, or opt for a new one. 

    China has never had that choice of governance.

    edited August 2020 svanstrommagman1979hippoivanhPShimiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 42
    By now no one can disagree with acknowledging  the sh*t China does, and all American capitalism does about it is whine when they fear profiting less from the Chinese market.
    gatorguytmaymagman1979OferFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 42
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,253member
    flydog said:
    wizard69 said:
    Apple needs to grasp the situation.   China simply has turned into a grand example of a hostile country.   They have far too many known programs to literally steal technology and of course the related spying programs.   It is hilarious that nobody at Apple has recognized that the worlds relationship with China is not sustainable.   Beyond that there is likely intelligence that Apple does't know about driving the Tik-Tok ban.

    In a nut shell Apple needs to stop making excuses and get out of China ASAP.
    You're the one who needs to grasp the situation.  If China was stealing Apple's technology, and pulling out of China would stop that, then Apple would do it.  There is zero evidence that China is stealing Apple's technology, and zero evidence that China uses WeChat to steal technology from any US company. 

    But under your illogical reasoning, Apple should ignore the lack of any evidence, and simply stop doing business in China based on the rants of madman who will be out of office come January, or the generalized vague allegation that China "is a bad state."

    Before you start typing furiously away at your keyboard, gather up your evidence (facts) that support WeChat is used to steal US technology, and one example of the "many known programs to literally steal technology and of course the related spying programs."


    Oh STFU, the only one who doesn't grasp the situation is YOU... There is PLENTY of hard EVIDENCE that China STEALS anything and everything they can, if you don't believe it, get a new prescription for your glasses, CCP sympathizer!
    svanstromtmayrazorpithippowatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 42
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,698member
    India totally ban Chinese Apps from operating in India. Best Trump can do is ban so called Chinese Apps from operating in USA and firewall USA users to access from inside USA. After that, European will follow and than rest of world. So, basically Chinese apps on IOS or Android operating within China for Chinese users. Long as they don't steal rest of world's data and misuse it; who cares what happens inside China,stays inside China.


    tmayhippo
  • Reply 9 of 42
    PezaPeza Posts: 198member
    No one in China will buy a phone that doesn’t support WeChat, it’s really that simple, with the stupid “social score” system they have, it’s an essential app to use. Otherwise their score could drop and they won’t get loans or tickets and all sorts. Makes me feel proud to support the extreme dictatorship regime and the disgusting way it treats its people by buying goods made in China......
  • Reply 10 of 42
    PezaPeza Posts: 198member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    The US has basically claimed China itself is a 'bad' state. Let's forget for a moment about Huawei, Tik Tok and WeChat.

    We also had the famous 'I hearby order...' tweet. 

    The US, if it truly believes China is untrustworthy, should break off ALL trade with China and stop cherry picking specific areas in trade deals. 

    China does have a terrible human rights record in some areas but if you actually dig into these things, few nations come up clean and the US really isn't in the best position to justify these 'sanctions' seeing it has been accused of human rights violation on home soil and abroad for longer than I can remember. 

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/united-states

    The Couso affair (document in Spanish) is a damning condemnation of human rights abuse, manipulation, cover up and potential war crimes by the US government. 

    http://www.revista-redi.es/en/articulos/the-couso-affair-in-the-national-courts-and-international-relations/

    This isn't to single out the US. Most nations have similar cases (in the hundreds). It is to say the US shouldn't waving the 'democracy' flag around and preaching when it has one of the worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states. 


    You conveniently forgot to post the link to China;

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/china-and-tibet

    I don't necessarily agree with CATO, but as a start to "freedom" score,

    The U.S. ranks 15,

    Spain 29

    China 126

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2020/leaderless-struggle-democracy

    Spain 92

    U.S.. 86

    China 10

    What they state about China;

    "Beijing’s totalitarian atrocities and global ambitions

    One of the year’s most appalling examples of domestic repression—made more frightening by the absence of a coordinated international response—was the Chinese Communist Party’s ongoing campaign of cultural annihilation in Xinjiang. Mass violations of the basic freedoms of millions of Uighurs and other Muslim minorities in the region, which were first brought to light in 2017, continued in 2019, with hundreds of thousands of people sentenced to prison or detained for forced indoctrination. The crackdown also included forced labor, the confinement of detained Muslims’ children in state-run boarding schools, and draconian bans on ordinary religious expression.

    Beijing claimed in December that the mass detentions had ended, but evidence from leaked government documents and victims’ relatives contradicted the assertion. Even if it were true, conditions for residents would not be greatly improved. The deployment of tens of thousands of security officers and state-of-the-art surveillance systems enable constant monitoring of the general population, converting Xinjiang into a dystopian open-air prison. 

    These policies have contributed to China’s ranking as one of the 15 worst-performing countries in Freedom in the World 2020, and one of only 11 countries that Freedom House flagged for evidence of ethnic cleansing or some other form of forced demographic change.

    The Communist Party’s totalitarian offensive in Xinjiang is the product of decades of experience in persecuting ethnic and religious minorities, combining coercive measures and technological developments that were previously applied to Tibetans, Falun Gong practitioners, and others. There are already signs that similar techniques will be expanded to China’s entire population. Examples in 2019 included a requirement for telecommunications companies to perform facial scans on all new internet or mobile phone subscribers, and reports that local authorities nationwide were purchasing equipment for mass collection and analysis of citizens’ DNA. Chinese officials are routinely promoted and transferred based on the perceived effectiveness of their repressive efforts, meaning both the technology and the personnel tested in Xinjiang are likely to spread across the country.

    The United States and other democracies have made some important diplomatic statements against the repression in Xinjiang, and the Trump administration has imposed sanctions on specific Chinese entities associated with the campaign. But in general the world’s democracies have taken few steps to rally international opposition or apply meaningful collective pressure to halt China’s rights abuses, and elected leaders in Europe and elsewhere have often been tepid in their public criticism. Many undemocratic governments have been similarly mute or even supported Beijing, including those in countries that have received Chinese loans and other investments. The pattern of de facto impunity bolsters China’s broader efforts to demand recognition as a global leader and aids its relentless campaign to replace existing international norms with its own authoritarian vision.

    Donald Trump and Xi Jinping
    US president Donald Trump poses for a photo with Chinese president Xi Jinping during a meeting on the sidelines of the G-20 summit in Osaka, Japan. Editorial Credit: Susan Walsh/AP/Shutterstock.

     

    One aspect of this more assertive foreign policy that gained prominence in 2019 was Beijing’s apparent interventions in democratic elections. As with past Russian intrusions in the United States and elsewhere, China was suspected of sponsoring the spread of disinformation to create confusion around candidates and policies ahead of Taiwan’s January 2020 elections. The strategy may have backfired in this instance; domestic fears about Chinese encroachment helped the incumbent president defeat a more Beijing-friendly rival. Earlier, Chinese authorities were accused in November of seeking to fund a businessman’s election to Australia’s Parliament, and New Zealand’s intelligence chief spoke publicly about potential foreign influence on domestic politicians in April, a few months after the country’s opposition leader was accused of improperly hiding Chinese donations. 

    Beyond the context of elections, Freedom House research has shown that Chinese transnationalcensorship and propaganda activities are accelerating worldwide. For example, dozens of Swedish news outlets and journalists have been denounced by the Chinese embassy in that country for their reporting on China. Even a Russian newspaper was threatened with visa denials if it did not take down an article that mentioned China’s weakening economy. Beijing has also used paid online trolls to distort content on global social media platforms that are blocked in China itself, with tactics including the demonization of political enemies like Hong Kong’s prodemocracy protesters on Facebook and Twitter, and the manipulation of content-ranking systems on Google, Reddit, and YouTube. And the Chinese government is gaining influence over crucial parts of other countries’ information infrastructure through companies that manage digital television broadcasting and communications on mobile devices.

    The past year featured a new wave of pushback against certain aspects of China’s global ambitions, with public resistance to the harmful effects of Chinese investment projects intensifying in host countries, and some politicians growing more vocal about protecting national interests against Beijing’s encroachment. Nevertheless, piecemeal responses are unlikely to deter the Chinese leadership in the long term."

    Your attempt to compare the human rights records of the U.S. against China fails because the U.S. absolutely does not have one of the "worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states."

    Your fealty to China is noted.

    For the record, the U.S. will have a new Presidential Election this fall, and has the opportunity to either keep the existing administration, or opt for a new one. 

    China has never had that choice of governance.

    And every single Western government and company will ignore all this disgrace for profit, money, power.. it is being gained of the backs of people being treated like caged animals with little human rights or freedoms.
    edited August 2020 svanstromPShimijony0
  • Reply 11 of 42
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    svanstrom said:
    By now no one can disagree with acknowledging  the sh*t China does, and all American capitalism does about it is whine when they fear profiting less from the Chinese market.

    Pretty much the entire world does.   Except for the crazed, deluded Trumpers -- whose leader is using China as a scapegoat to distract from his own corruption and incompetence as well as how his buddy Vladimir is using Russian assets to undermine our elections and keep their orange shill in power.

    The Orange Fasicist:    "Look over there!"
    The Cult:    "Yes sir!   I believe!   I believe!"

    Republicans did the same 20 years ago with Iraq -- created an entire make believe enemy.   They're trying to pull the whole scam off all over again!  
    edited August 2020 FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 12 of 42
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Peza said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    The US has basically claimed China itself is a 'bad' state. Let's forget for a moment about Huawei, Tik Tok and WeChat.

    We also had the famous 'I hearby order...' tweet. 

    The US, if it truly believes China is untrustworthy, should break off ALL trade with China and stop cherry picking specific areas in trade deals. 

    China does have a terrible human rights record in some areas but if you actually dig into these things, few nations come up clean and the US really isn't in the best position to justify these 'sanctions' seeing it has been accused of human rights violation on home soil and abroad for longer than I can remember. 

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/united-states

    The Couso affair (document in Spanish) is a damning condemnation of human rights abuse, manipulation, cover up and potential war crimes by the US government. 

    http://www.revista-redi.es/en/articulos/the-couso-affair-in-the-national-courts-and-international-relations/

    This isn't to single out the US. Most nations have similar cases (in the hundreds). It is to say the US shouldn't waving the 'democracy' flag around and preaching when it has one of the worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states. 


    You conveniently forgot to post the link to China;

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/china-and-tibet

    I don't necessarily agree with CATO, but as a start to "freedom" score,

    The U.S. ranks 15,

    Spain 29

    China 126

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2020/leaderless-struggle-democracy

    Spain 92

    U.S.. 86

    China 10

    What they state about China;

    "Beijing’s totalitarian atrocities and global ambitions

    One of the year’s most appalling examples of domestic repression—made more frightening by the absence of a coordinated international response—was the Chinese Communist Party’s ongoing campaign of cultural annihilation in Xinjiang. Mass violations of the basic freedoms of millions of Uighurs and other Muslim minorities in the region, which were first brought to light in 2017, continued in 2019, with hundreds of thousands of people sentenced to prison or detained for forced indoctrination. The crackdown also included forced labor, the confinement of detained Muslims’ children in state-run boarding schools, and draconian bans on ordinary religious expression.

    Beijing claimed in December that the mass detentions had ended, but evidence from leaked government documents and victims’ relatives contradicted the assertion. Even if it were true, conditions for residents would not be greatly improved. The deployment of tens of thousands of security officers and state-of-the-art surveillance systems enable constant monitoring of the general population, converting Xinjiang into a dystopian open-air prison. 

    These policies have contributed to China’s ranking as one of the 15 worst-performing countries in Freedom in the World 2020, and one of only 11 countries that Freedom House flagged for evidence of ethnic cleansing or some other form of forced demographic change.

    The Communist Party’s totalitarian offensive in Xinjiang is the product of decades of experience in persecuting ethnic and religious minorities, combining coercive measures and technological developments that were previously applied to Tibetans, Falun Gong practitioners, and others. There are already signs that similar techniques will be expanded to China’s entire population. Examples in 2019 included a requirement for telecommunications companies to perform facial scans on all new internet or mobile phone subscribers, and reports that local authorities nationwide were purchasing equipment for mass collection and analysis of citizens’ DNA. Chinese officials are routinely promoted and transferred based on the perceived effectiveness of their repressive efforts, meaning both the technology and the personnel tested in Xinjiang are likely to spread across the country.

    The United States and other democracies have made some important diplomatic statements against the repression in Xinjiang, and the Trump administration has imposed sanctions on specific Chinese entities associated with the campaign. But in general the world’s democracies have taken few steps to rally international opposition or apply meaningful collective pressure to halt China’s rights abuses, and elected leaders in Europe and elsewhere have often been tepid in their public criticism. Many undemocratic governments have been similarly mute or even supported Beijing, including those in countries that have received Chinese loans and other investments. The pattern of de facto impunity bolsters China’s broader efforts to demand recognition as a global leader and aids its relentless campaign to replace existing international norms with its own authoritarian vision.

    Donald Trump and Xi Jinping
    US president Donald Trump poses for a photo with Chinese president Xi Jinping during a meeting on the sidelines of the G-20 summit in Osaka, Japan. Editorial Credit: Susan Walsh/AP/Shutterstock.

     

    One aspect of this more assertive foreign policy that gained prominence in 2019 was Beijing’s apparent interventions in democratic elections. As with past Russian intrusions in the United States and elsewhere, China was suspected of sponsoring the spread of disinformation to create confusion around candidates and policies ahead of Taiwan’s January 2020 elections. The strategy may have backfired in this instance; domestic fears about Chinese encroachment helped the incumbent president defeat a more Beijing-friendly rival. Earlier, Chinese authorities were accused in November of seeking to fund a businessman’s election to Australia’s Parliament, and New Zealand’s intelligence chief spoke publicly about potential foreign influence on domestic politicians in April, a few months after the country’s opposition leader was accused of improperly hiding Chinese donations. 

    Beyond the context of elections, Freedom House research has shown that Chinese transnationalcensorship and propaganda activities are accelerating worldwide. For example, dozens of Swedish news outlets and journalists have been denounced by the Chinese embassy in that country for their reporting on China. Even a Russian newspaper was threatened with visa denials if it did not take down an article that mentioned China’s weakening economy. Beijing has also used paid online trolls to distort content on global social media platforms that are blocked in China itself, with tactics including the demonization of political enemies like Hong Kong’s prodemocracy protesters on Facebook and Twitter, and the manipulation of content-ranking systems on Google, Reddit, and YouTube. And the Chinese government is gaining influence over crucial parts of other countries’ information infrastructure through companies that manage digital television broadcasting and communications on mobile devices.

    The past year featured a new wave of pushback against certain aspects of China’s global ambitions, with public resistance to the harmful effects of Chinese investment projects intensifying in host countries, and some politicians growing more vocal about protecting national interests against Beijing’s encroachment. Nevertheless, piecemeal responses are unlikely to deter the Chinese leadership in the long term."

    Your attempt to compare the human rights records of the U.S. against China fails because the U.S. absolutely does not have one of the "worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states."

    Your fealty to China is noted.

    For the record, the U.S. will have a new Presidential Election this fall, and has the opportunity to either keep the existing administration, or opt for a new one. 

    China has never had that choice of governance.

    And every single Western government and company will ignore all this disgrace for profit, money, power.. it is being gained of the backs of people being treated like caged animals with little human rights or freedoms.

    The people in cages are here in the U.S., not China.   They're mostly kids and black folks.
    jony0
  • Reply 13 of 42
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Apple is on the wrong side of this issue, but I suppose they have to put on a good show for their Chinese customers to save face.
    edited August 2020 tmay
  • Reply 14 of 42
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Of course they are trying to derail Trump's resurrection of his trade war with China.   The only one who wins those Trumped up wars are Trump.

    China is now saying they will look into whether the U.S. lived up to its obligations in the "Phase 1" deal.   They're losing patience with Trump's bullshit and will start to hit us back every time Trump hits them.

    jony0
  • Reply 15 of 42
    PezaPeza Posts: 198member
    Peza said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    The US has basically claimed China itself is a 'bad' state. Let's forget for a moment about Huawei, Tik Tok and WeChat.

    We also had the famous 'I hearby order...' tweet. 

    The US, if it truly believes China is untrustworthy, should break off ALL trade with China and stop cherry picking specific areas in trade deals. 

    China does have a terrible human rights record in some areas but if you actually dig into these things, few nations come up clean and the US really isn't in the best position to justify these 'sanctions' seeing it has been accused of human rights violation on home soil and abroad for longer than I can remember. 

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/united-states

    The Couso affair (document in Spanish) is a damning condemnation of human rights abuse, manipulation, cover up and potential war crimes by the US government. 

    http://www.revista-redi.es/en/articulos/the-couso-affair-in-the-national-courts-and-international-relations/

    This isn't to single out the US. Most nations have similar cases (in the hundreds). It is to say the US shouldn't waving the 'democracy' flag around and preaching when it has one of the worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states. 


    You conveniently forgot to post the link to China;

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/china-and-tibet

    I don't necessarily agree with CATO, but as a start to "freedom" score,

    The U.S. ranks 15,

    Spain 29

    China 126

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2020/leaderless-struggle-democracy

    Spain 92

    U.S.. 86

    China 10

    What they state about China;

    "Beijing’s totalitarian atrocities and global ambitions

    One of the year’s most appalling examples of domestic repression—made more frightening by the absence of a coordinated international response—was the Chinese Communist Party’s ongoing campaign of cultural annihilation in Xinjiang. Mass violations of the basic freedoms of millions of Uighurs and other Muslim minorities in the region, which were first brought to light in 2017, continued in 2019, with hundreds of thousands of people sentenced to prison or detained for forced indoctrination. The crackdown also included forced labor, the confinement of detained Muslims’ children in state-run boarding schools, and draconian bans on ordinary religious expression.

    Beijing claimed in December that the mass detentions had ended, but evidence from leaked government documents and victims’ relatives contradicted the assertion. Even if it were true, conditions for residents would not be greatly improved. The deployment of tens of thousands of security officers and state-of-the-art surveillance systems enable constant monitoring of the general population, converting Xinjiang into a dystopian open-air prison. 

    These policies have contributed to China’s ranking as one of the 15 worst-performing countries in Freedom in the World 2020, and one of only 11 countries that Freedom House flagged for evidence of ethnic cleansing or some other form of forced demographic change.

    The Communist Party’s totalitarian offensive in Xinjiang is the product of decades of experience in persecuting ethnic and religious minorities, combining coercive measures and technological developments that were previously applied to Tibetans, Falun Gong practitioners, and others. There are already signs that similar techniques will be expanded to China’s entire population. Examples in 2019 included a requirement for telecommunications companies to perform facial scans on all new internet or mobile phone subscribers, and reports that local authorities nationwide were purchasing equipment for mass collection and analysis of citizens’ DNA. Chinese officials are routinely promoted and transferred based on the perceived effectiveness of their repressive efforts, meaning both the technology and the personnel tested in Xinjiang are likely to spread across the country.

    The United States and other democracies have made some important diplomatic statements against the repression in Xinjiang, and the Trump administration has imposed sanctions on specific Chinese entities associated with the campaign. But in general the world’s democracies have taken few steps to rally international opposition or apply meaningful collective pressure to halt China’s rights abuses, and elected leaders in Europe and elsewhere have often been tepid in their public criticism. Many undemocratic governments have been similarly mute or even supported Beijing, including those in countries that have received Chinese loans and other investments. The pattern of de facto impunity bolsters China’s broader efforts to demand recognition as a global leader and aids its relentless campaign to replace existing international norms with its own authoritarian vision.

    Donald Trump and Xi Jinping
    US president Donald Trump poses for a photo with Chinese president Xi Jinping during a meeting on the sidelines of the G-20 summit in Osaka, Japan. Editorial Credit: Susan Walsh/AP/Shutterstock.

     

    One aspect of this more assertive foreign policy that gained prominence in 2019 was Beijing’s apparent interventions in democratic elections. As with past Russian intrusions in the United States and elsewhere, China was suspected of sponsoring the spread of disinformation to create confusion around candidates and policies ahead of Taiwan’s January 2020 elections. The strategy may have backfired in this instance; domestic fears about Chinese encroachment helped the incumbent president defeat a more Beijing-friendly rival. Earlier, Chinese authorities were accused in November of seeking to fund a businessman’s election to Australia’s Parliament, and New Zealand’s intelligence chief spoke publicly about potential foreign influence on domestic politicians in April, a few months after the country’s opposition leader was accused of improperly hiding Chinese donations. 

    Beyond the context of elections, Freedom House research has shown that Chinese transnationalcensorship and propaganda activities are accelerating worldwide. For example, dozens of Swedish news outlets and journalists have been denounced by the Chinese embassy in that country for their reporting on China. Even a Russian newspaper was threatened with visa denials if it did not take down an article that mentioned China’s weakening economy. Beijing has also used paid online trolls to distort content on global social media platforms that are blocked in China itself, with tactics including the demonization of political enemies like Hong Kong’s prodemocracy protesters on Facebook and Twitter, and the manipulation of content-ranking systems on Google, Reddit, and YouTube. And the Chinese government is gaining influence over crucial parts of other countries’ information infrastructure through companies that manage digital television broadcasting and communications on mobile devices.

    The past year featured a new wave of pushback against certain aspects of China’s global ambitions, with public resistance to the harmful effects of Chinese investment projects intensifying in host countries, and some politicians growing more vocal about protecting national interests against Beijing’s encroachment. Nevertheless, piecemeal responses are unlikely to deter the Chinese leadership in the long term."

    Your attempt to compare the human rights records of the U.S. against China fails because the U.S. absolutely does not have one of the "worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states."

    Your fealty to China is noted.

    For the record, the U.S. will have a new Presidential Election this fall, and has the opportunity to either keep the existing administration, or opt for a new one. 

    China has never had that choice of governance.

    And every single Western government and company will ignore all this disgrace for profit, money, power.. it is being gained of the backs of people being treated like caged animals with little human rights or freedoms.

    The people in cages are here in the U.S., not China.   They're mostly kids and black folks.
    If you had some intelligence or even actually visited China, you’d realise just how lucky Black people and kids in America truly are... you can buy a train ticket with having to worry if your social score is high enough to allow you to do that.. you can speak up against your government without being thrown in jail for the rest of your life, just for speaking.
    Stop feeling so sorry for yourself thinking your special, your not your privileged compared to China and many other countries weather you see that or not.
    edited August 2020 gatorguyhippoivanhjony0
  • Reply 16 of 42
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Peza said:
    Peza said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    The US has basically claimed China itself is a 'bad' state. Let's forget for a moment about Huawei, Tik Tok and WeChat.

    We also had the famous 'I hearby order...' tweet. 

    The US, if it truly believes China is untrustworthy, should break off ALL trade with China and stop cherry picking specific areas in trade deals. 

    China does have a terrible human rights record in some areas but if you actually dig into these things, few nations come up clean and the US really isn't in the best position to justify these 'sanctions' seeing it has been accused of human rights violation on home soil and abroad for longer than I can remember. 

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/united-states

    The Couso affair (document in Spanish) is a damning condemnation of human rights abuse, manipulation, cover up and potential war crimes by the US government. 

    http://www.revista-redi.es/en/articulos/the-couso-affair-in-the-national-courts-and-international-relations/

    This isn't to single out the US. Most nations have similar cases (in the hundreds). It is to say the US shouldn't waving the 'democracy' flag around and preaching when it has one of the worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states. 


    You conveniently forgot to post the link to China;

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/china-and-tibet

    I don't necessarily agree with CATO, but as a start to "freedom" score,

    The U.S. ranks 15,

    Spain 29

    China 126

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2020/leaderless-struggle-democracy

    Spain 92

    U.S.. 86

    China 10

    What they state about China;

    "Beijing’s totalitarian atrocities and global ambitions

    One of the year’s most appalling examples of domestic repression—made more frightening by the absence of a coordinated international response—was the Chinese Communist Party’s ongoing campaign of cultural annihilation in Xinjiang. Mass violations of the basic freedoms of millions of Uighurs and other Muslim minorities in the region, which were first brought to light in 2017, continued in 2019, with hundreds of thousands of people sentenced to prison or detained for forced indoctrination. The crackdown also included forced labor, the confinement of detained Muslims’ children in state-run boarding schools, and draconian bans on ordinary religious expression.

    Beijing claimed in December that the mass detentions had ended, but evidence from leaked government documents and victims’ relatives contradicted the assertion. Even if it were true, conditions for residents would not be greatly improved. The deployment of tens of thousands of security officers and state-of-the-art surveillance systems enable constant monitoring of the general population, converting Xinjiang into a dystopian open-air prison. 

    These policies have contributed to China’s ranking as one of the 15 worst-performing countries in Freedom in the World 2020, and one of only 11 countries that Freedom House flagged for evidence of ethnic cleansing or some other form of forced demographic change.

    The Communist Party’s totalitarian offensive in Xinjiang is the product of decades of experience in persecuting ethnic and religious minorities, combining coercive measures and technological developments that were previously applied to Tibetans, Falun Gong practitioners, and others. There are already signs that similar techniques will be expanded to China’s entire population. Examples in 2019 included a requirement for telecommunications companies to perform facial scans on all new internet or mobile phone subscribers, and reports that local authorities nationwide were purchasing equipment for mass collection and analysis of citizens’ DNA. Chinese officials are routinely promoted and transferred based on the perceived effectiveness of their repressive efforts, meaning both the technology and the personnel tested in Xinjiang are likely to spread across the country.

    The United States and other democracies have made some important diplomatic statements against the repression in Xinjiang, and the Trump administration has imposed sanctions on specific Chinese entities associated with the campaign. But in general the world’s democracies have taken few steps to rally international opposition or apply meaningful collective pressure to halt China’s rights abuses, and elected leaders in Europe and elsewhere have often been tepid in their public criticism. Many undemocratic governments have been similarly mute or even supported Beijing, including those in countries that have received Chinese loans and other investments. The pattern of de facto impunity bolsters China’s broader efforts to demand recognition as a global leader and aids its relentless campaign to replace existing international norms with its own authoritarian vision.

    Donald Trump and Xi Jinping
    US president Donald Trump poses for a photo with Chinese president Xi Jinping during a meeting on the sidelines of the G-20 summit in Osaka, Japan. Editorial Credit: Susan Walsh/AP/Shutterstock.

     

    One aspect of this more assertive foreign policy that gained prominence in 2019 was Beijing’s apparent interventions in democratic elections. As with past Russian intrusions in the United States and elsewhere, China was suspected of sponsoring the spread of disinformation to create confusion around candidates and policies ahead of Taiwan’s January 2020 elections. The strategy may have backfired in this instance; domestic fears about Chinese encroachment helped the incumbent president defeat a more Beijing-friendly rival. Earlier, Chinese authorities were accused in November of seeking to fund a businessman’s election to Australia’s Parliament, and New Zealand’s intelligence chief spoke publicly about potential foreign influence on domestic politicians in April, a few months after the country’s opposition leader was accused of improperly hiding Chinese donations. 

    Beyond the context of elections, Freedom House research has shown that Chinese transnationalcensorship and propaganda activities are accelerating worldwide. For example, dozens of Swedish news outlets and journalists have been denounced by the Chinese embassy in that country for their reporting on China. Even a Russian newspaper was threatened with visa denials if it did not take down an article that mentioned China’s weakening economy. Beijing has also used paid online trolls to distort content on global social media platforms that are blocked in China itself, with tactics including the demonization of political enemies like Hong Kong’s prodemocracy protesters on Facebook and Twitter, and the manipulation of content-ranking systems on Google, Reddit, and YouTube. And the Chinese government is gaining influence over crucial parts of other countries’ information infrastructure through companies that manage digital television broadcasting and communications on mobile devices.

    The past year featured a new wave of pushback against certain aspects of China’s global ambitions, with public resistance to the harmful effects of Chinese investment projects intensifying in host countries, and some politicians growing more vocal about protecting national interests against Beijing’s encroachment. Nevertheless, piecemeal responses are unlikely to deter the Chinese leadership in the long term."

    Your attempt to compare the human rights records of the U.S. against China fails because the U.S. absolutely does not have one of the "worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states."

    Your fealty to China is noted.

    For the record, the U.S. will have a new Presidential Election this fall, and has the opportunity to either keep the existing administration, or opt for a new one. 

    China has never had that choice of governance.

    And every single Western government and company will ignore all this disgrace for profit, money, power.. it is being gained of the backs of people being treated like caged animals with little human rights or freedoms.

    The people in cages are here in the U.S., not China.   They're mostly kids and black folks.
    If you had some intelligence or even actually visited China, you’d realise just how lucky Black people [in cages] and kids [in cages] in America truly are... ....
    I literally laughed out loud at that inanity.!

    Yeh, I'm sure those kids locked in cages feel very fortunate to be locked in those cages!   Same with the thousands and thousands of black kids in cages in private, for-profit jails.

    Perhaps you should stop being distracted by Trump's distractions and right wing propaganda and pay attention to your own country.

    jony0
  • Reply 17 of 42
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,169member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    The US has basically claimed China itself is a 'bad' state. Let's forget for a moment about Huawei, Tik Tok and WeChat.

    We also had the famous 'I hearby order...' tweet. 

    The US, if it truly believes China is untrustworthy, should break off ALL trade with China and stop cherry picking specific areas in trade deals. 

    China does have a terrible human rights record in some areas but if you actually dig into these things, few nations come up clean and the US really isn't in the best position to justify these 'sanctions' seeing it has been accused of human rights violation on home soil and abroad for longer than I can remember. 

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/united-states

    The Couso affair (document in Spanish) is a damning condemnation of human rights abuse, manipulation, cover up and potential war crimes by the US government. 

    http://www.revista-redi.es/en/articulos/the-couso-affair-in-the-national-courts-and-international-relations/

    This isn't to single out the US. Most nations have similar cases (in the hundreds). It is to say the US shouldn't waving the 'democracy' flag around and preaching when it has one of the worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states. 


    You conveniently forgot to post the link to China;

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/china-and-tibet

    I don't necessarily agree with CATO, but as a start to "freedom" score,

    The U.S. ranks 15,

    Spain 29

    China 126

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2020/leaderless-struggle-democracy

    Spain 92

    U.S.. 86

    China 10

    What they state about China;

    "Beijing’s totalitarian atrocities and global ambitions

    One of the year’s most appalling examples of domestic repression—made more frightening by the absence of a coordinated international response—was the Chinese Communist Party’s ongoing campaign of cultural annihilation in Xinjiang. Mass violations of the basic freedoms of millions of Uighurs and other Muslim minorities in the region, which were first brought to light in 2017, continued in 2019, with hundreds of thousands of people sentenced to prison or detained for forced indoctrination. The crackdown also included forced labor, the confinement of detained Muslims’ children in state-run boarding schools, and draconian bans on ordinary religious expression.

    Beijing claimed in December that the mass detentions had ended, but evidence from leaked government documents and victims’ relatives contradicted the assertion. Even if it were true, conditions for residents would not be greatly improved. The deployment of tens of thousands of security officers and state-of-the-art surveillance systems enable constant monitoring of the general population, converting Xinjiang into a dystopian open-air prison. 

    These policies have contributed to China’s ranking as one of the 15 worst-performing countries in Freedom in the World 2020, and one of only 11 countries that Freedom House flagged for evidence of ethnic cleansing or some other form of forced demographic change.

    The Communist Party’s totalitarian offensive in Xinjiang is the product of decades of experience in persecuting ethnic and religious minorities, combining coercive measures and technological developments that were previously applied to Tibetans, Falun Gong practitioners, and others. There are already signs that similar techniques will be expanded to China’s entire population. Examples in 2019 included a requirement for telecommunications companies to perform facial scans on all new internet or mobile phone subscribers, and reports that local authorities nationwide were purchasing equipment for mass collection and analysis of citizens’ DNA. Chinese officials are routinely promoted and transferred based on the perceived effectiveness of their repressive efforts, meaning both the technology and the personnel tested in Xinjiang are likely to spread across the country.

    The United States and other democracies have made some important diplomatic statements against the repression in Xinjiang, and the Trump administration has imposed sanctions on specific Chinese entities associated with the campaign. But in general the world’s democracies have taken few steps to rally international opposition or apply meaningful collective pressure to halt China’s rights abuses, and elected leaders in Europe and elsewhere have often been tepid in their public criticism. Many undemocratic governments have been similarly mute or even supported Beijing, including those in countries that have received Chinese loans and other investments. The pattern of de facto impunity bolsters China’s broader efforts to demand recognition as a global leader and aids its relentless campaign to replace existing international norms with its own authoritarian vision.

    Donald Trump and Xi Jinping
    US president Donald Trump poses for a photo with Chinese president Xi Jinping during a meeting on the sidelines of the G-20 summit in Osaka, Japan. Editorial Credit: Susan Walsh/AP/Shutterstock.

     

    One aspect of this more assertive foreign policy that gained prominence in 2019 was Beijing’s apparent interventions in democratic elections. As with past Russian intrusions in the United States and elsewhere, China was suspected of sponsoring the spread of disinformation to create confusion around candidates and policies ahead of Taiwan’s January 2020 elections. The strategy may have backfired in this instance; domestic fears about Chinese encroachment helped the incumbent president defeat a more Beijing-friendly rival. Earlier, Chinese authorities were accused in November of seeking to fund a businessman’s election to Australia’s Parliament, and New Zealand’s intelligence chief spoke publicly about potential foreign influence on domestic politicians in April, a few months after the country’s opposition leader was accused of improperly hiding Chinese donations. 

    Beyond the context of elections, Freedom House research has shown that Chinese transnationalcensorship and propaganda activities are accelerating worldwide. For example, dozens of Swedish news outlets and journalists have been denounced by the Chinese embassy in that country for their reporting on China. Even a Russian newspaper was threatened with visa denials if it did not take down an article that mentioned China’s weakening economy. Beijing has also used paid online trolls to distort content on global social media platforms that are blocked in China itself, with tactics including the demonization of political enemies like Hong Kong’s prodemocracy protesters on Facebook and Twitter, and the manipulation of content-ranking systems on Google, Reddit, and YouTube. And the Chinese government is gaining influence over crucial parts of other countries’ information infrastructure through companies that manage digital television broadcasting and communications on mobile devices.

    The past year featured a new wave of pushback against certain aspects of China’s global ambitions, with public resistance to the harmful effects of Chinese investment projects intensifying in host countries, and some politicians growing more vocal about protecting national interests against Beijing’s encroachment. Nevertheless, piecemeal responses are unlikely to deter the Chinese leadership in the long term."

    Your attempt to compare the human rights records of the U.S. against China fails because the U.S. absolutely does not have one of the "worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states."

    Your fealty to China is noted.

    For the record, the U.S. will have a new Presidential Election this fall, and has the opportunity to either keep the existing administration, or opt for a new one. 

    China has never had that choice of governance.

    How did you manage to miss the whole point? 

    Your 'scorecard' is irrelevant to what I was saying. 

    You can't go around justifying sanctions in the name of human rights breaches if you are guilty of them yourself. 

    Much less if you are actively seeking a trade deal with the same nation! 

    Your case crumbles and is seen for what it is. A farce. A demonstable farce! 
    GeorgeBMacmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 18 of 42
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,251member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    The US has basically claimed China itself is a 'bad' state. Let's forget for a moment about Huawei, Tik Tok and WeChat.

    We also had the famous 'I hearby order...' tweet. 

    The US, if it truly believes China is untrustworthy, should break off ALL trade with China and stop cherry picking specific areas in trade deals. 

    China does have a terrible human rights record in some areas but if you actually dig into these things, few nations come up clean and the US really isn't in the best position to justify these 'sanctions' seeing it has been accused of human rights violation on home soil and abroad for longer than I can remember. 

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/united-states

    The Couso affair (document in Spanish) is a damning condemnation of human rights abuse, manipulation, cover up and potential war crimes by the US government. 

    http://www.revista-redi.es/en/articulos/the-couso-affair-in-the-national-courts-and-international-relations/

    This isn't to single out the US. Most nations have similar cases (in the hundreds). It is to say the US shouldn't waving the 'democracy' flag around and preaching when it has one of the worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states. 


    You conveniently forgot to post the link to China;

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/china-and-tibet

    I don't necessarily agree with CATO, but as a start to "freedom" score,

    The U.S. ranks 15,

    Spain 29

    China 126

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2020/leaderless-struggle-democracy

    Spain 92

    U.S.. 86

    China 10

    What they state about China;

    "Beijing’s totalitarian atrocities and global ambitions

    One of the year’s most appalling examples of domestic repression—made more frightening by the absence of a coordinated international response—was the Chinese Communist Party’s ongoing campaign of cultural annihilation in Xinjiang. Mass violations of the basic freedoms of millions of Uighurs and other Muslim minorities in the region, which were first brought to light in 2017, continued in 2019, with hundreds of thousands of people sentenced to prison or detained for forced indoctrination. The crackdown also included forced labor, the confinement of detained Muslims’ children in state-run boarding schools, and draconian bans on ordinary religious expression.

    Beijing claimed in December that the mass detentions had ended, but evidence from leaked government documents and victims’ relatives contradicted the assertion. Even if it were true, conditions for residents would not be greatly improved. The deployment of tens of thousands of security officers and state-of-the-art surveillance systems enable constant monitoring of the general population, converting Xinjiang into a dystopian open-air prison. 

    These policies have contributed to China’s ranking as one of the 15 worst-performing countries in Freedom in the World 2020, and one of only 11 countries that Freedom House flagged for evidence of ethnic cleansing or some other form of forced demographic change.

    The Communist Party’s totalitarian offensive in Xinjiang is the product of decades of experience in persecuting ethnic and religious minorities, combining coercive measures and technological developments that were previously applied to Tibetans, Falun Gong practitioners, and others. There are already signs that similar techniques will be expanded to China’s entire population. Examples in 2019 included a requirement for telecommunications companies to perform facial scans on all new internet or mobile phone subscribers, and reports that local authorities nationwide were purchasing equipment for mass collection and analysis of citizens’ DNA. Chinese officials are routinely promoted and transferred based on the perceived effectiveness of their repressive efforts, meaning both the technology and the personnel tested in Xinjiang are likely to spread across the country.

    The United States and other democracies have made some important diplomatic statements against the repression in Xinjiang, and the Trump administration has imposed sanctions on specific Chinese entities associated with the campaign. But in general the world’s democracies have taken few steps to rally international opposition or apply meaningful collective pressure to halt China’s rights abuses, and elected leaders in Europe and elsewhere have often been tepid in their public criticism. Many undemocratic governments have been similarly mute or even supported Beijing, including those in countries that have received Chinese loans and other investments. The pattern of de facto impunity bolsters China’s broader efforts to demand recognition as a global leader and aids its relentless campaign to replace existing international norms with its own authoritarian vision.

    Donald Trump and Xi Jinping
    US president Donald Trump poses for a photo with Chinese president Xi Jinping during a meeting on the sidelines of the G-20 summit in Osaka, Japan. Editorial Credit: Susan Walsh/AP/Shutterstock.

     

    One aspect of this more assertive foreign policy that gained prominence in 2019 was Beijing’s apparent interventions in democratic elections. As with past Russian intrusions in the United States and elsewhere, China was suspected of sponsoring the spread of disinformation to create confusion around candidates and policies ahead of Taiwan’s January 2020 elections. The strategy may have backfired in this instance; domestic fears about Chinese encroachment helped the incumbent president defeat a more Beijing-friendly rival. Earlier, Chinese authorities were accused in November of seeking to fund a businessman’s election to Australia’s Parliament, and New Zealand’s intelligence chief spoke publicly about potential foreign influence on domestic politicians in April, a few months after the country’s opposition leader was accused of improperly hiding Chinese donations. 

    Beyond the context of elections, Freedom House research has shown that Chinese transnationalcensorship and propaganda activities are accelerating worldwide. For example, dozens of Swedish news outlets and journalists have been denounced by the Chinese embassy in that country for their reporting on China. Even a Russian newspaper was threatened with visa denials if it did not take down an article that mentioned China’s weakening economy. Beijing has also used paid online trolls to distort content on global social media platforms that are blocked in China itself, with tactics including the demonization of political enemies like Hong Kong’s prodemocracy protesters on Facebook and Twitter, and the manipulation of content-ranking systems on Google, Reddit, and YouTube. And the Chinese government is gaining influence over crucial parts of other countries’ information infrastructure through companies that manage digital television broadcasting and communications on mobile devices.

    The past year featured a new wave of pushback against certain aspects of China’s global ambitions, with public resistance to the harmful effects of Chinese investment projects intensifying in host countries, and some politicians growing more vocal about protecting national interests against Beijing’s encroachment. Nevertheless, piecemeal responses are unlikely to deter the Chinese leadership in the long term."

    Your attempt to compare the human rights records of the U.S. against China fails because the U.S. absolutely does not have one of the "worst records for spying and abuse of sovereign states."

    Your fealty to China is noted.

    For the record, the U.S. will have a new Presidential Election this fall, and has the opportunity to either keep the existing administration, or opt for a new one. 

    China has never had that choice of governance.

    According to this man's logic, just because the U.S. can't be perfectly clean about its action, therefore let's abandon freedom & democracy once for all.

    👍
    svanstrom
  • Reply 19 of 42
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,251member
    Just because democracy have flaws, let's go all the way to embrace authoritarianism.

    because there's no perfect democracy, remember?  If you can't be perfect then you can't call other out.



    Yeah hell no.  His payment from Huawei surely delivered.  Come to think about it, these so called "Panda Huggers" (like b7) is why the U.S. appears to contradict itself.
    edited August 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 42
    I've told you.

    Apple will go thermonuclear to fight the WeChat ban as it means the end of selling iPhones in China, period.


    GeorgeBMac
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