It can take months, or even years, to perfect the talent. To use a different example, an airline can't just replace all its Boeing with Airbus - they'd need all new pilots.
Or, the airlines could just re-certify their Boeing pilots on Airbus planes.
Creating a game engine as feature-rich as Unreal isn't something that happens with a few years of development, it's a multi-decade evolution if codebase in response to market demands, trends and requirements. It'd be more complex than them building their own instruction set, something I'm sure they wouldn't touch on (yet?) just because they'd rather build on what's already built. If Apple built a game engine today, even if they poured the entire net worth of the company into it, it just couldn't be as developed as Unreal (Or any other engine) until we're installing iOS 30 or something ridiculous, just because it's built on so much prior evolution.
"Multi-decade evolution"? What!!! How many decades did it take Epic to build Unreal? If Epic could create Unreal 'building on what's already built', why could Apple not do the same?
If Apple built a game engine today, even if they poured the entire net worth of the company into it, it just couldn't be as developed as Unreal (Or any other engine) until we're installing iOS 30 or something ridiculous, just because it's built on so much prior evolution.
You clearly have no idea what a Trillion dollars can do. Didn't Apple develop an emulator (Rosetta 2) that emulates x86 code faster than that code runs natively on x86? I bet it did not cost them anywhere near a Trillion dollars.
Stop exaggerating Epic's accomplishment with Unreal, and stop underestimating Apple. You sound like the CEOs of Palm and RIM.
Apple could hire John Carmack or any number of very credible developers tomorrow to help solve this issue.
Apple platforms could lose all (future) Unreal-based games, Epic seems tantrum-angry enough to just amputate an arm and ignore the bleeding. ...then again, Unreal-engine is not really going away since engine users/customers can still keep building for Apple platforms using the source. Epic games could lose distribution channels outside of just Apple on this journey. Epic could lose engine customers on mobile platforms, they are not the only engine provider, a very good one but not the only one.
It's not just a matter of being 'a very good one', it's a matter of it's the most powerful by a country mile, with easily portability between platforms using familiar languages for software developers. The runners-up don't even come close. Legions of indie game developers for iOS right now would be both (a) out of a job or (b) forced to undergo retraining to keep their jobs, should their companies want to stay on iOS. True, any good developer should be able to transition between platforms with relative ease but it's not an overnight process. It can take months, or even years, to perfect the talent. To use a different example, an airline can't just replace all its Boeing with Airbus - they'd need all new pilots.
Asking developers to abandon Unreal would be as silly as asking end users to abandon iOS. It's not going to happen. True, there was a time when no one thought that the rail companies would disappear, or US Steel would be broken up, or AT&T would have competition, or Microsoft would face scrutiny - the world is a history of monopolies and giants. iOS is one in the mobile platform undeniably, and likewise Unreal is in the gaming world. Some of Apple's biggest games marketing for Apple Arcade are powered by Unreal, and that is something Apple doesn't want to forfit.
Apple should just develop a superior engine and destroy Epic.
With Apple Silicon Macs coming they can develop an engine that simultaneously works with Mac/iPad/iPhone/Apple TV. This can cuase an explosion in Apple Arcade support. Imagine your game releases simultaneously on all Apple platforms with little work. Developers would be drooling.
Also, Apple should start "Gaming" the Apple Watch. That's a billion dollar market just waiting. And I don't mean tic-tac-toe on your Watch I mean full scale adventures that connect to Apple TV and real life physical fitness.
Apple could also just buy them, kick out Sweeney and instantly own a large part of the high-end premium games market for all platforms. Lots of data analytics potential in that. It's only about $18 billion! The ownership list for Epic is fun too: Tencent owns 40% and Sony recently invested $250 million (~1.5%) - which explains why Epic is not complaining about Sony Playstation Store's 30% cut... and who knows what involvement Tencent has in this debacle (owner of wechat).
It can take months, or even years, to perfect the talent. To use a different example, an airline can't just replace all its Boeing with Airbus - they'd need all new pilots.
Or, the airlines could just re-certify their Boeing pilots on Airbus planes.
Creating a game engine as feature-rich as Unreal isn't something that happens with a few years of development, it's a multi-decade evolution if codebase in response to market demands, trends and requirements. It'd be more complex than them building their own instruction set, something I'm sure they wouldn't touch on (yet?) just because they'd rather build on what's already built. If Apple built a game engine today, even if they poured the entire net worth of the company into it, it just couldn't be as developed as Unreal (Or any other engine) until we're installing iOS 30 or something ridiculous, just because it's built on so much prior evolution.
"Multi-decade evolution"? What!!! How many decades did it take Epic to build Unreal? If Epic could create Unreal 'building on what's already built', why could Apple not do the same?
If Apple built a game engine today, even if they poured the entire net worth of the company into it, it just couldn't be as developed as Unreal (Or any other engine) until we're installing iOS 30 or something ridiculous, just because it's built on so much prior evolution.
You clearly have no idea what a Trillion dollars can do. Didn't Apple develop an emulator (Rosetta 2) that emulates x86 code faster than that code runs natively on x86? I bet it did not cost them anywhere near a Trillion dollars.
Stop exaggerating Epic's accomplishment with Unreal, and stop underestimating Apple. You sound like the CEOs of Palm and RIM.
It's taken about 20 years for Unreal to be the juggernaut it is today. That you think Apple can just walk in and make something to compete with it in a year or two is laughable. What, are they going to put more money into Metal? The failed API that was supposed to invigorate the gaming industry on Apple devices? Meanwhile gaming on MacOS has been reversing with the lack of 32-bit support and the ARM transition has killed VR development on Mac's with SteamVR no longer being updated for the platform. Throwing money at something does not equate to success. If it did we would be using Windows Phones and Cortana would be the go-to voice assistant. And Rosetta 2 running faster than native code? I highly doubt that. Stop exaggerating Apple's accomplishment with market valuation, and stop underestimating Unreal.
It's taken about 20 years for Unreal to be the juggernaut it is today. That you think Apple can just walk in and make something to compete with it in a year or two is laughable. What, are they going to put more money into Metal? The failed API that was supposed to invigorate the gaming industry on Apple devices? Meanwhile gaming on MacOS has been reversing with the lack of 32-bit support and the ARM transition has killed VR development on Mac's with SteamVR no longer being updated for the platform. Throwing money at something does not equate to success. If it did we would be using Windows Phones and Cortana would be the go-to voice assistant. And Rosetta 2 running faster than native code? I highly doubt that. Stop exaggerating Apple's accomplishment with market valuation, and stop underestimating Unreal.
Who’s to say Apple doesn’t have an internal game engine prototype already laying around in some secret lab?
As for Rosetta 2 running translated x86 code faster than an equivalent Intel-based Mac could do natively, don’t count that out… Don’t forget that those demos at WWDC were made on an iPad Pro SoC, not on a Mac-specific design.
Also, if you’ve been an Apple user long enough, you should remember how MacBooks, Mac Pros and Intel iMacs and Mac minis were in some cases faster at running PowerPC code translated on the fly with Rosetta 1 than their G4 and G5 counterparts were natively. No one is arguing that Rosetta 2-translated binaries (which, mind you, undergo that process during installation, and not at runtime) run as fast as ARM binaries on Apple Silicon…
Apple platforms could lose all (future) Unreal-based games, Epic seems tantrum-angry enough to just amputate an arm and ignore the bleeding. ...then again, Unreal-engine is not really going away since engine users/customers can still keep building for Apple platforms using the source. Epic games could lose distribution channels outside of just Apple on this journey. Epic could lose engine customers on mobile platforms, they are not the only engine provider, a very good one but not the only one.
It's not just a matter of being 'a very good one', it's a matter of it's the most powerful by a country mile, with easily portability between platforms using familiar languages for software developers. The runners-up don't even come close. Legions of indie game developers for iOS right now would be both (a) out of a job or (b) forced to undergo retraining to keep their jobs, should their companies want to stay on iOS. True, any good developer should be able to transition between platforms with relative ease but it's not an overnight process. It can take months, or even years, to perfect the talent. To use a different example, an airline can't just replace all its Boeing with Airbus - they'd need all new pilots.
Asking developers to abandon Unreal would be as silly as asking end users to abandon iOS. It's not going to happen. True, there was a time when no one thought that the rail companies would disappear, or US Steel would be broken up, or AT&T would have competition, or Microsoft would face scrutiny - the world is a history of monopolies and giants. iOS is one in the mobile platform undeniably, and likewise Unreal is in the gaming world. Some of Apple's biggest games marketing for Apple Arcade are powered by Unreal, and that is something Apple doesn't want to forfit.
Apple should just develop a superior engine and destroy Epic.
With Apple Silicon Macs coming they can develop an engine that simultaneously works with Mac/iPad/iPhone/Apple TV. This can cuase an explosion in Apple Arcade support. Imagine your game releases simultaneously on all Apple platforms with little work. Developers would be drooling.
Also, Apple should start "Gaming" the Apple Watch. That's a billion dollar market just waiting. And I don't mean tic-tac-toe on your Watch I mean full scale adventures that connect to Apple TV and real life physical fitness.
Apple could also just buy them, kick out Sweeney and instantly own a large part of the high-end premium games market for all platforms. Lots of data analytics potential in that. It's only about $18 billion! The ownership list for Epic is fun too: Tencent owns 40% and Sony recently invested $250 million (~1.5%) - which explains why Epic is not complaining about Sony Playstation Store's 30% cut... and who knows what involvement Tencent has in this debacle (owner of wechat).
I do love this industry 🤣
Tencent’s involvement could mean they’ll soon be banned from the US anyway.
It can take months, or even years, to perfect the talent. To use a different example, an airline can't just replace all its Boeing with Airbus - they'd need all new pilots.
Or, the airlines could just re-certify their Boeing pilots on Airbus planes.
Creating a game engine as feature-rich as Unreal isn't something that happens with a few years of development, it's a multi-decade evolution if codebase in response to market demands, trends and requirements. It'd be more complex than them building their own instruction set, something I'm sure they wouldn't touch on (yet?) just because they'd rather build on what's already built. If Apple built a game engine today, even if they poured the entire net worth of the company into it, it just couldn't be as developed as Unreal (Or any other engine) until we're installing iOS 30 or something ridiculous, just because it's built on so much prior evolution.
"Multi-decade evolution"? What!!! How many decades did it take Epic to build Unreal? If Epic could create Unreal 'building on what's already built', why could Apple not do the same?
If Apple built a game engine today, even if they poured the entire net worth of the company into it, it just couldn't be as developed as Unreal (Or any other engine) until we're installing iOS 30 or something ridiculous, just because it's built on so much prior evolution.
You clearly have no idea what a Trillion dollars can do. Didn't Apple develop an emulator (Rosetta 2) that emulates x86 code faster than that code runs natively on x86? I bet it did not cost them anywhere near a Trillion dollars.
Stop exaggerating Epic's accomplishment with Unreal, and stop underestimating Apple. You sound like the CEOs of Palm and RIM.
It's taken about 20 years for Unreal to be the juggernaut it is today. That you think Apple can just walk in and make something to compete with it in a year or two is laughable. What, are they going to put more money into Metal? The failed API that was supposed to invigorate the gaming industry on Apple devices?
Who’s to say Apple doesn’t have an internal game engine prototype already laying around in some secret lab?
Why would they? They don't develop games. Developers have Unreal Engine (and still will once this issue gets sorted, because there's no way Epic walks away from UE being available on Macs), Unity 3D, and numerous other smaller engines available to work with. They don't need to make another, they've got bigger fish to fry like ARKit, and presumably VRKit if that hardware also comes to fruition.
Apple platforms could lose all (future) Unreal-based games, Epic seems tantrum-angry enough to just amputate an arm and ignore the bleeding. ...then again, Unreal-engine is not really going away since engine users/customers can still keep building for Apple platforms using the source. Epic games could lose distribution channels outside of just Apple on this journey. Epic could lose engine customers on mobile platforms, they are not the only engine provider, a very good one but not the only one.
It's not just a matter of being 'a very good one', it's a matter of it's the most powerful by a country mile, with easily portability between platforms using familiar languages for software developers. The runners-up don't even come close. Legions of indie game developers for iOS right now would be both (a) out of a job or (b) forced to undergo retraining to keep their jobs, should their companies want to stay on iOS. True, any good developer should be able to transition between platforms with relative ease but it's not an overnight process. It can take months, or even years, to perfect the talent. To use a different example, an airline can't just replace all its Boeing with Airbus - they'd need all new pilots.
Asking developers to abandon Unreal would be as silly as asking end users to abandon iOS. It's not going to happen. True, there was a time when no one thought that the rail companies would disappear, or US Steel would be broken up, or AT&T would have competition, or Microsoft would face scrutiny - the world is a history of monopolies and giants. iOS is one in the mobile platform undeniably, and likewise Unreal is in the gaming world. Some of Apple's biggest games marketing for Apple Arcade are powered by Unreal, and that is something Apple doesn't want to forfit.
Apple should just develop a superior engine and destroy Epic.
With Apple Silicon Macs coming they can develop an engine that simultaneously works with Mac/iPad/iPhone/Apple TV. This can cuase an explosion in Apple Arcade support. Imagine your game releases simultaneously on all Apple platforms with little work. Developers would be drooling.
Unreal Engine already "works with Mac/iPad/iPhone/Apple TV" — you can publish for all of those by just checking the boxes. It also works with Windows, Linux, PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo, Android, and HTML5. "Developers would be drooling" indeed — probably why UE is so ubiquitous. It's also one of the most advanced engines available, and is 22 years old now.
Many of you don't seem to really get what Unreal Engine is or how it works. It's more than just a game engine, it's used all over for real-time visualization work including live and cinematic experiences, realtime virtual set production (see Mandalorian and others), XR experience design, animation, simulations, pre-viz, architecture... etc.
Basically it would be a huge loss to have Epic abandon macOS, for both parties. They'll have to figure something out. As someone who's been a fan since playing the original Unreal in 1998 and am getting into learning UE for realtime rendering, I *sincerely* hope they do.
It's taken about 20 years for Unreal to be the juggernaut it is today. That you think Apple can just walk in and make something to compete with it in a year or two is laughable. What, are they going to put more money into Metal? The failed API that was supposed to invigorate the gaming industry on Apple devices? Meanwhile gaming on MacOS has been reversing with the lack of 32-bit support and the ARM transition has killed VR development on Mac's with SteamVR no longer being updated for the platform. Throwing money at something does not equate to success. If it did we would be using Windows Phones and Cortana would be the go-to voice assistant. And Rosetta 2 running faster than native code? I highly doubt that. Stop exaggerating Apple's accomplishment with market valuation, and stop underestimating Unreal.
I can't tell if you are being facetious, or just ignorant.
1. The point is not that it took Unreal "20 years to be the juggernaut", it's that it won't take Apple 20 yrs to create a replacement. 2. The Apple Silicon/Rosetta 2 performance was demoed at the WWDC. Nobody cares if you "doubt it" or not; we saw it. 3. Do you realize that you are literally quoting Palm CEO Colligan, who when asked about the iPhone, said, "We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone. PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in." 4. "Stop exaggerating Apple's accomplishment with market valuation" ??!! That does not even make sense!
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I do love this industry 🤣
Throwing money at something does not equate to success. If it did we would be using Windows Phones and Cortana would be the go-to voice assistant. And Rosetta 2 running faster than native code? I highly doubt that.
Stop exaggerating Apple's accomplishment with market valuation, and stop underestimating Unreal.
As for Rosetta 2 running translated x86 code faster than an equivalent Intel-based Mac could do natively, don’t count that out… Don’t forget that those demos at WWDC were made on an iPad Pro SoC, not on a Mac-specific design.
Also, if you’ve been an Apple user long enough, you should remember how MacBooks, Mac Pros and Intel iMacs and Mac minis were in some cases faster at running PowerPC code translated on the fly with Rosetta 1 than their G4 and G5 counterparts were natively. No one is arguing that Rosetta 2-translated binaries (which, mind you, undergo that process during installation, and not at runtime) run as fast as ARM binaries on Apple Silicon…
Why would they? They don't develop games. Developers have Unreal Engine (and still will once this issue gets sorted, because there's no way Epic walks away from UE being available on Macs), Unity 3D, and numerous other smaller engines available to work with. They don't need to make another, they've got bigger fish to fry like ARKit, and presumably VRKit if that hardware also comes to fruition.
Many of you don't seem to really get what Unreal Engine is or how it works. It's more than just a game engine, it's used all over for real-time visualization work including live and cinematic experiences, realtime virtual set production (see Mandalorian and others), XR experience design, animation, simulations, pre-viz, architecture... etc.
Basically it would be a huge loss to have Epic abandon macOS, for both parties. They'll have to figure something out. As someone who's been a fan since playing the original Unreal in 1998 and am getting into learning UE for realtime rendering, I *sincerely* hope they do.
1. The point is not that it took Unreal "20 years to be the juggernaut", it's that it won't take Apple 20 yrs to create a replacement.
2. The Apple Silicon/Rosetta 2 performance was demoed at the WWDC. Nobody cares if you "doubt it" or not; we saw it.
3. Do you realize that you are literally quoting Palm CEO Colligan, who when asked about the iPhone, said, "We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone. PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in."
4. "Stop exaggerating Apple's accomplishment with market valuation" ??!! That does not even make sense!