Flawed survey or not.. better than the ‘hobby’ stage or not.. Apple TV is yet another bumbled mess that utilizes only a tiny fraction of its potential, and completely squanders its incredibly privileged role of being in the Apple ecosystem (like virtually every service Apple tries to offer). Like nearly every service, the rollout was completely bumbled (I still have an Apple TV specific controller collecting dust bc the game options have been crappy). I’m a daily, very regular user of the Apple TV, but unfortunately the only thing it’s reliable for is basic streaming and media consumption. Even there, it’s often frustrating to try and search for anything using siri with the Apple TV (one consonant or punctuation mark off and it’s hopeless). It looks like we’re about to be blessed with another catch up version that I’m sure will be entirely ‘passable.’ Can’t wait. /s
I wish Apple would have enough integrity, and respect for its users to create services and service platforms commensurate with the quality of their hardware, core software, and overall ethos of the company.
That overall ethos of quality is a feature of a previous era of Apple. Today’s Apple are not the same company. They’re riding their own coat tails of prior success and their old image of “insanely great design” (burning it, I’d say, but most fanatics don’t see the difference), but that’s not been who the company are for many years now (2013 and on).
Flawed survey or not.. better than the ‘hobby’ stage or not.. Apple TV is yet another bumbled mess that utilizes only a tiny fraction of its potential, and completely squanders its incredibly privileged role of being in the Apple ecosystem (like virtually every service Apple tries to offer). Like nearly every service, the rollout was completely bumbled (I still have an Apple TV specific controller collecting dust bc the game options have been crappy). I’m a daily, very regular user of the Apple TV, but unfortunately the only thing it’s reliable for is basic streaming and media consumption. Even there, it’s often frustrating to try and search for anything using siri with the Apple TV (one consonant or punctuation mark off and it’s hopeless). It looks like we’re about to be blessed with another catch up version that I’m sure will be entirely ‘passable.’ Can’t wait. /s
I wish Apple would have enough integrity, and respect for its users to create services and service platforms commensurate with the quality of their hardware, core software, and overall ethos of the company.
That overall ethos of quality is a feature of a previous era of Apple. Today’s Apple are not the same company. They’re riding their own coat tails of prior success and their old image of “insanely great design” (burning it, I’d say, but most fanatics don’t see the difference), but that’s not been who the company are for many years now (2013 and on).
So basically what you're saying is 'if Steve Jobs were alive…"
You know what's great?AirPods Pro and they didn't exist in 2013. You know what was crap? The second Ui for the Apple TV, which was well within this "golden era" you long for and which never actually existed because Apple, like any company, is hit and miss.
In a decade Apple will be more popular than ever and you'll be claiming how Apple stopped be going in 2020 because you won't recall all the things they did that weren't great.
I have been using Roku since getting a Roku 2 XS in 2011. My current Roku 4 is not supported by the Apple TV app so I was looking to get a new streaming device. Just this week - Monday, in fact - I picked up an Apple TV 4K to solve my Apple TV app problem and because I really want to get HBO Max. These are my thoughts after a couple days with the Apple TV.
I appreciate the lack of advertising in the UI. I also like how you can "deep link" from the home screen directly to show/movie in a specific app. Otherwise, I hate the UI. It's slow and cluttered with junk I can't get rid of and have to hide; things I have no intention of ever using. It suffers from the traditional Apple 'hide the features' game - I had to ask my brother how to turn off the Autoplay Trailers (mis)feature - it's in the Accessibility section of Settings, of course! Where else would it be? The Apple TV UI in general seems slower than Roku due to all the animations.
I expected more consistency across apps than Roku. Sadly, that is not the case. I would say apps are actually less consistent since they are often behind the level of the Roku apps.
The inability to turn off Autoplay Next in the Apple TV app is really lousy. I'm not looking forward to falling asleep in front of the TV and waking up to see that I've 'watched' all episode of some show. That's actually bitten me a couple times after going to make dinner after watching something and coming back to find that it's played through 2 episodes while I was away. I should be able to adjust that behavior. Maybe that's a general criticism of the Apple TV app across all platforms? I don't know.
The Apple TV ability to search across apps is great. Roku has this also, but it's not implemented very well. One usability issue I keep having is going to Search to look for apps, which you have to so in the App Store app. I'm sure I'd get used to that after a while.
The remote control is horrible. On the other hand, controlling it with an IR remote is very slow. A bad experience either way.
Why is everything called Apple TV? The device, the app, the service? Needlessly confusing.
Right now, if HBO Max comes to Roku, I'll switch back despite the issues with Roku. I'm sure I'll adjust after a couple months (Roku are you listening? That's your window to get me back), but right now I'm not sold on it.
IMO the AppleTV UI is generally better than smart TV UIs, but that says more about how bad smart TV UIs are; because by no means is the ATV UI great. Nor is it even good.
I think it boils down to Apple's habit of removing as many physical features to reduce the number of buttons on a device, resulting in buttons that are overloaded with functions. They used to do it with iPhones with a home button. The lack of buttons means the buttons that do exist perform horribly inconsistent actions. Sometimes while video is playing swiping on the remote will move the playhead, sometimes it will only work while paused. Sometimes swiping and holding rewinds or fast forwards. Sometimes clicking plays/stops. Sometimes it shows the playing progress bar.
The menu button is the same. There are so many times when I get really pissed off that the menu button does so many different things. Sometimes it shows the top menu, sometimes it goes back a level in the hierarchy, sometimes it takes you to the home screen. The UI works much better with a PS4 remote that has enough buttons to be useful, except Apple has decided the "home" button should show the never used control centre rather than taking you home, which requires a long press instead. Idiotic.
The games on the AppleTV are graphically somewhere between the PS2 and PS3, and are just blown-up casual mobile games, there is nothing graphically impressive on the AppleTV. Of course graphics aren't everything, the Wii was an absolute hit when it came out because it had all sorts of fun accessories and great games, but was much less powerful than the PS3. But the AppleTV has no great games and nor great graphics. Some games are ok, but I've never specifically made time to play an AppleTV game.
And don't get me started on the awful remote itself. Too slippery, too symmetrical, too sensitive, too fragile. Apple needs to learn to abandon things that it introduced as the next best thing, which turn out to be not. They eventually abandoned the butterfly keybard and the trashcan Mac Pro, but only after pushing each for way longer than they should have. It worries me that Apple's size has made it another inflexible behemoth rather than the agile Apple that "skated to where the puck is going". With the first gen AppleTV Apple skated to where the puck was going - but it clipped the stick, and Apple is now sat waiting for it to come back.
This is one of the best posts I’ve seen here in a while. What you’re describing about the Apple TV is exactly what I want to know from current owners. It doesn’t necessarily put me off buying one entirely, but it’s clear you’re thoughtful (of design) like myself, and that makes me feel pre-warned. Thanks!
It’s also showcasing that the same minimalism pathology I see in Apple’s phones and computers is present throughout Apple, including the Apple TV.
iOS across all devices relies too heavily on gestures. They’re inconsistent across apps, UI objects, and system controls (and they’re buggy). They also conflict with each other (crop a photo from the top without pulling down the notifications screen, or drag up from the 123 button to go for a number without getting the control center, among others).
Apple’s “insanely great” design is now irrational design. Simplicity in controls is good until to the point where it adds complexity to the user experience. Removing as much physical material as possible isn’t a goal to prioritize over usability. Objects that are unpleasant or confusing to hold should never have happened at Apple, but we got this rightfully criticized Apple TV remote, the puck mouse (every Apple mouse, really), phones that are too tall and require screen-sliding UI workarounds for lack of one-handed operation, which also require cases to be comfortable to hold (and made less slippery)...
Usability should always be priority one, but the MBA mindset of Apple leadership clearly has “profit via minimalism” as a top development priority... as well as “stock performance via too many minor product revisions in the time that is insufficient to make even one of them reliable or meaningful”.
Flawed survey or not.. better than the ‘hobby’ stage or not.. Apple TV is yet another bumbled mess that utilizes only a tiny fraction of its potential, and completely squanders its incredibly privileged role of being in the Apple ecosystem (like virtually every service Apple tries to offer). Like nearly every service, the rollout was completely bumbled (I still have an Apple TV specific controller collecting dust bc the game options have been crappy). I’m a daily, very regular user of the Apple TV, but unfortunately the only thing it’s reliable for is basic streaming and media consumption. Even there, it’s often frustrating to try and search for anything using siri with the Apple TV (one consonant or punctuation mark off and it’s hopeless). It looks like we’re about to be blessed with another catch up version that I’m sure will be entirely ‘passable.’ Can’t wait. /s
I wish Apple would have enough integrity, and respect for its users to create services and service platforms commensurate with the quality of their hardware, core software, and overall ethos of the company.
That overall ethos of quality is a feature of a previous era of Apple. Today’s Apple are not the same company. They’re riding their own coat tails of prior success and their old image of “insanely great design” (burning it, I’d say, but most fanatics don’t see the difference), but that’s not been who the company are for many years now (2013 and on).
So basically what you're saying is 'if Steve Jobs were alive…"
You know what's great?AirPods Pro and they didn't exist in 2013. You know what was crap? The second Ui for the Apple TV, which was well within this "golden era" you long for and which never actually existed because Apple, like any company, is hit and miss.
In a decade Apple will be more popular than ever and you'll be claiming how Apple stopped be going in 2020 because you won't recall all the things they did that weren't great.
I can only guess what you meant to say in that last paragraph, because, wow, typos. Proofreading is good.
I cannot comment on the Apple TV UI you’re telling me about. It looks, from your screenshot, like the old iPod UI concept, which was not bad for minimal controls. The UI has gotten more complex but the controls haven’t grown in scope. It seems they’ve gotten worse from where I’ve been observing (here on these forums and one day of setting up an Apple TV HD for my parents, which was a PITA without the Remote app).
i said nothing about Steve Jobs. If you want, just so you can feel better about bashing me, yes, Apple seemed to have more attention to details back when Jobs was CEO. Usability of iOS has worsened since he left and died. Bug count has gone up. Design has gotten worse. I get a strong impression that Apple don’t use their own products much, because I find bugs so easily and I find they almost never get fixed. Hell, the multiple-selection UIs are still functionally worthless in most places one can be found in iOS, which should be embarrassing for Apple because it shows their current UI people don’t even know what a multiple-selection UI is FOR.
I have been using Roku since getting a Roku 2 XS in 2011. My current Roku 4 is not supported by the Apple TV app so I was looking to get a new streaming device. Just this week - Monday, in fact - I picked up an Apple TV 4K to solve my Apple TV app problem and because I really want to get HBO Max. These are my thoughts after a couple days with the Apple TV.
I appreciate the lack of advertising in the UI. I also like how you can "deep link" from the home screen directly to show/movie in a specific app. Otherwise, I hate the UI. It's slow and cluttered with junk I can't get rid of and have to hide; things I have no intention of ever using. It suffers from the traditional Apple 'hide the features' game - I had to ask my brother how to turn off the Autoplay Trailers (mis)feature - it's in the Accessibility section of Settings, of course! Where else would it be? The Apple TV UI in general seems slower than Roku due to all the animations.
I expected more consistency across apps than Roku. Sadly, that is not the case. I would say apps are actually less consistent since they are often behind the level of the Roku apps.
The inability to turn off Autoplay Next in the Apple TV app is really lousy. I'm not looking forward to falling asleep in front of the TV and waking up to see that I've 'watched' all episode of some show. That's actually bitten me a couple times after going to make dinner after watching something and coming back to find that it's played through 2 episodes while I was away. I should be able to adjust that behavior. Maybe that's a general criticism of the Apple TV app across all platforms? I don't know.
The Apple TV ability to search across apps is great. Roku has this also, but it's not implemented very well. One usability issue I keep having is going to Search to look for apps, which you have to so in the App Store app. I'm sure I'd get used to that after a while.
The remote control is horrible. On the other hand, controlling it with an IR remote is very slow. A bad experience either way.
Why is everything called Apple TV? The device, the app, the service? Needlessly confusing.
Right now, if HBO Max comes to Roku, I'll switch back despite the issues with Roku. I'm sure I'll adjust after a couple months (Roku are you listening? That's your window to get me back), but right now I'm not sold on it.
Thank you for your review of your experience with Apple TV. These were all useful pieces of information for me. Cheers!
Thank you for your review of your experience with Apple TV. These were all useful pieces of information for me. Cheers!
Thank you for not exploding in apoplectic rage because I said something slightly critical of Apple!
I hasten to add, Apple TV is perfectly fine. Upon rereading my post, it sounds harsher than I intended. There is definitely some areas for improvement. My only real issue is with the remote, which I put on the same level as the butterfly keyboard fiasco.
AppleTV needs to be able to run iOS games with a controller. If I have PUBG on my iPad and a DualShock 4 Controller I should be able to download it to an AppleTV and play it from there on my TV. I assume that’s not a current option.
It's called AirPlay Mirroring, you've been able to do this for years.
Way too much delay ( latency ) with Airplay Mirroring. Things like Tower defense or card games work ok with Airplay, but not fast moving games like PUBG or racing games. Way better experience if it were directly played on the ATV.
I hate the OS & apps on our “smart” TV (and every “smart” TV). Their software is garbage. It should not in any way be a sellable product.
I’ve considered an Apple TV as a result, since Airplay sucks (doesn’t work at all from my High Sierra 2009 MacBook Pro, barely works from my iPhone 6s or iPad Pro, including squashed picture, latency, compression, etc, and is inconsistent and compressed from my girlfriend’s new MacBook Pro), and having multiple wires draped between a laptop and the entertainment center also really sucks.
I’m not liking the inconsistencies reported about Apple TV OS, compared to the other variants of iOS, not liking the remote, and I’m not eager to spend another $200 on a device that might not actually be a great enough improvement over the abysmal TV software, if the streaming apps aren’t 100% like the iPad versions or websites.
Color everyone surprised that you don't like another Apple product you haven't bought.
AppleTV needs to be able to run iOS games with a controller. If I have PUBG on my iPad and a DualShock 4 Controller I should be able to download it to an AppleTV and play it from there on my TV. I assume that’s not a current option.
It's called AirPlay Mirroring, you've been able to do this for years.
and there’s something called Lag that has plagued gamers for years
Running a game on a wifi device (iphone/ipad) then using wifi to stream it to an appletv device would be needlessly slow imho.
Not that I’ve tried it, think I will, though I do more gaming on the PS.
Okay, well — the alternative is that the onus is on the developer of the game to publish to the ATV as well, which has full third party controller support. Clearly there's some reason that's not happening, at least yet (processor disparity I'm guessing?).
When Steve Jobs announced Apple TV it was revolutionary, a game changer, the future of TV. Nowadays with lame full version updates which look more like an excuse than a full update, gens ago hardware and no up-to-date features, poor piece of hardware is not getting the treatment it deserves
You're full of shit. He never called it revolutionary. He called it a hobby until his death. But nice revisionist history there, you needed to dig SJ out of his grave to make up lies. Also, what Apple TV is now, is infinitely better than what Jobs announced, with massively more capability. The Apple TV appstore didn't even exist.
I never said he called it "Revolutionary" dumb ass. Read slowly.
"you needed to dig SJ out of his grave"
Ok Tim Cook announced it. Happy?
"Also, what Apple TV is now, is infinitely better than what Jobs announced,"
Same with iPhone, iPad, Mac, software. No shit. How stupid can a single human be to not know upgrades make things better?
It is always fun reading 2 hard core Apple fans throwing tantrums at each other (without even knowing that the other person is EQUALLY hard core apple fan with a "Defend Apple at ANY cost attitude").
I'm not defending Apple here. That's the issue. Apple has made some crappy business decisions.
Apple TV is the pinnacle of Apple's blunders which sucks because it can be a real leader. No one in their right mind should ever choose a Roku or Fire Stick regardless of price, except that Apple screwed this one up. Fire Stick should be like buying a Sansa MP3 player instead of an iPod. Except Apple gave a crap about the iPod.
But Steve (and Tim) were completely correct about the future of TV being apps. See above about a possible new hardware refresh, but seriously -- are you under the delusion that Apple can magically and remotely upgrade the hardware from afar? The machine Steve Jobs introduced all the way through the current model were intended to support the "TV as apps" concept, and they support that beautifully.
Yes and no. TV as Apps has happened but that’s the issue and Apple knows it. It’s fragmented & horrible as a CX. TV as an App, just one aggregator App or built into the OS, is the way forward hence the Apple TV App. Unfortunately it’s easier to open a system up than it is to close one down later once you realise your mistake. Apple should be negotiating hard with TV/content providers who don’t want to get into the software game and building out the Channels feature.
Without revealing the method used this report means nothing. I’d like to know the figures by stream not device sales. This would reveal who actually uses what and how much. A breakdown of actual services consumed on each platform would show whether smartTVs are just Netflix-only devices and how truly diverse OTT/on demand services are.
The fact they control 2% when they don’t even make smart TV’s (or low cost sticks) is pretty solid. Add to that many people use full fledged gaming consoles as streamers and it’s very respectable.
That being said, I think the Apple TV was a possible missed opportunity. They could have made an all in one box (streamer, Blu-ray, even over the air HD tuner) and really gotten ahead of cord cutting. I take it they calculated it wasn’t worth it, especially since hardware prices for separate devices are and have been tanking.
AppleTV needs to be able to run iOS games with a controller. If I have PUBG on my iPad and a DualShock 4 Controller I should be able to download it to an AppleTV and play it from there on my TV. I assume that’s not a current option.
It's called AirPlay Mirroring, you've been able to do this for years.
Way too much delay ( latency ) with Airplay Mirroring. Things like Tower defense or card games work ok with Airplay, but not fast moving games like PUBG or racing games. Way better experience if it were directly played on the ATV.
So many great comments here. Rounding out my thoughts and experience:
Love: -the design, including the remote! Although at this point a more advanced remote that’s amenable to casual gaming should be offered, maybe an ergonomic wand with a flat directional thumb pad, index finger trigger/selector, accelerometer, and haptics.
-apps, or course, although Apple dragged its feet at the beginning -the ‘screen saver’ videos (forget the official name) are fantastic -*I can use the Apple TV and turn off the WiFi and tracking from my tv* -the “what did he/she say” playback feature That’s about it.
Don’t love / hate:
-still can’t download rented or bought movies to combat finicky internet?? What’s the point of the large hard drives?? -media selection/discovery has always been crappy, often suggesting the same movies in the next line, and doesn’t seem to have much tailoring or ranking other than ‘most popular’ -siri still only works for the most basic and clear rote commands, and even then the Siri search selector just pops up one row of very poorly organized options -gaming was completely bumbled. I was really looking forward to using it for casual games but that never seemed to take off.
-my favorite casual game for the Apple TV “Mr Jump” just stopped working a couple years ago.
-how is there no home kit app ffs? -karaoke??? Huge missed opportunity despite being the worlds music leader. -multiple other missed opportunities and squandered potential regarding apps and functionality. Kind of pathetic.
Comments
You know what's great?AirPods Pro and they didn't exist in 2013. You know what was crap? The second Ui for the Apple TV, which was well within this "golden era" you long for and which never actually existed because Apple, like any company, is hit and miss.
In a decade Apple will be more popular than ever and you'll be claiming how Apple stopped be going in 2020 because you won't recall all the things they did that weren't great.
It’s also showcasing that the same minimalism pathology I see in Apple’s phones and computers is present throughout Apple, including the Apple TV.
iOS across all devices relies too heavily on gestures. They’re inconsistent across apps, UI objects, and system controls (and they’re buggy). They also conflict with each other (crop a photo from the top without pulling down the notifications screen, or drag up from the 123 button to go for a number without getting the control center, among others).
Apple’s “insanely great” design is now irrational design. Simplicity in controls is good until to the point where it adds complexity to the user experience. Removing as much physical material as possible isn’t a goal to prioritize over usability. Objects that are unpleasant or confusing to hold should never have happened at Apple, but we got this rightfully criticized Apple TV remote, the puck mouse (every Apple mouse, really), phones that are too tall and require screen-sliding UI workarounds for lack of one-handed operation, which also require cases to be comfortable to hold (and made less slippery)...
Usability should always be priority one, but the MBA mindset of Apple leadership clearly has “profit via minimalism” as a top development priority... as well as “stock performance via too many minor product revisions in the time that is insufficient to make even one of them reliable or meaningful”.
I cannot comment on the Apple TV UI you’re telling me about. It looks, from your screenshot, like the old iPod UI concept, which was not bad for minimal controls. The UI has gotten more complex but the controls haven’t grown in scope. It seems they’ve gotten worse from where I’ve been observing (here on these forums and one day of setting up an Apple TV HD for my parents, which was a PITA without the Remote app).
i said nothing about Steve Jobs. If you want, just so you can feel better about bashing me, yes, Apple seemed to have more attention to details back when Jobs was CEO. Usability of iOS has worsened since he left and died. Bug count has gone up. Design has gotten worse. I get a strong impression that Apple don’t use their own products much, because I find bugs so easily and I find they almost never get fixed. Hell, the multiple-selection UIs are still functionally worthless in most places one can be found in iOS, which should be embarrassing for Apple because it shows their current UI people don’t even know what a multiple-selection UI is FOR.
Thank you for your review of your experience with Apple TV. These were all useful pieces of information for me. Cheers!
Way too much delay ( latency ) with Airplay Mirroring. Things like Tower defense or card games work ok with Airplay, but not fast moving games like PUBG or racing games. Way better experience if it were directly played on the ATV.
I'm not defending Apple here. That's the issue. Apple has made some crappy business decisions.
Apple TV is the pinnacle of Apple's blunders which sucks because it can be a real leader. No one in their right mind should ever choose a Roku or Fire Stick regardless of price, except that Apple screwed this one up. Fire Stick should be like buying a Sansa MP3 player instead of an iPod. Except Apple gave a crap about the iPod.
Unfortunately it’s easier to open a system up than it is to close one down later once you realise your mistake. Apple should be negotiating hard with TV/content providers who don’t want to get into the software game and building out the Channels feature.
in one box (streamer, Blu-ray, even over the air HD tuner) and really gotten ahead of cord cutting. I take it they calculated it wasn’t worth it, especially since hardware prices for separate devices are and have been tanking.
Love:
-the design, including the remote! Although at this point a more advanced remote that’s amenable to casual gaming should be offered, maybe an ergonomic wand with a flat directional thumb pad, index finger trigger/selector, accelerometer, and haptics.
-the ‘screen saver’ videos (forget the official name) are fantastic
-*I can use the Apple TV and turn off the WiFi and tracking from my tv*
-the “what did he/she say” playback feature
That’s about it.
-media selection/discovery has always been crappy, often suggesting the same movies in the next line, and doesn’t seem to have much tailoring or ranking other than ‘most popular’
-siri still only works for the most basic and clear rote commands, and even then the Siri search selector just pops up one row of very poorly organized options
-gaming was completely bumbled. I was really looking forward to using it for casual games but that never seemed to take off.
-karaoke??? Huge missed opportunity despite being the worlds music leader.
-multiple other missed opportunities and squandered potential regarding apps and functionality. Kind of pathetic.