It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, but there isn't any technical advantage to using Huawei. Perhaps you should join the rest of the world and condemn the prison complexes in Xinjiang, and now also in Tibet. Considering how much benefit Huawei gains from its close connection to the CCP, I expect that the next U.S. Administration will also continue sanctions against Mainland China.
If the towers are operating at the same frequency bands, but under 5G protocols, there are some efficiencies, but a user wouldn't see 10 time performance gains during peak hours. That's just physics.
Yes, towers can be upgraded to midband, and gain performance, and that's what Telefonica stated they were doing, but at what pace of buildout is that midband happening? that is what the link I posted questioned.
You seem unable to comprehend that most of the U.S. is rural, and of low population density, so in those areas, users will almost never see anything but low band, though at 5G, it will have a bit more range and efficiency. I assume Spain has areas that are also of low population density; maybe you live in one and don't yet have access to midband. If you purchased a 5G phone, you would see performance near what 4G already provides, an likely about 20% better.
I'm not supporting China. I'm providing information.
Huawei's gear is ahead of the pack and by some margin.
Take a look at some of the specialist videos from the UK where they measure the performance of different equipment from different vendors on the same tower.
Yes, they are far more efficient too, in practically every sense which leads to savings right from the installation process. A lot of this equipment was designed not only to be efficient but also be light and compact enough to be installed by a single operator.
The speeds I mentioned were taken from a video on 5G in Spain. They are not ficticious. The '10 times faster' was direct from the video.
The 'repurposing' as you like to call it is not what you paint it to be. Basically 4G is being used to help out with the backhaul.
The real backhaul is the strength of the fibre network available to the operators and you shouldn't be surprised to hear that Huawei stands out there too.
Are you incapable of seeing the technological level of Huawei in this field?
And adhering to the same standard DOES NOT mean performance can't vary.
Take a look at Huawei's WiFi 6+ which, while being fully certified for WiFi 6, can achieve better performance when paired with other Wi-Fi 6+ devices. That's because they have leveraged their 5G tech to produce a better product.
Not dissimilar to how Huawei claimed its Wifi 5 was faster than Apple's Wi-Fi 6. Why? Because their homegrown Wi-Fi 5 chipset was the fastest in the industry at launch.
Apple screwed up strategically speaking with their 5G plans. The only way they could save the day was by jumping back into bed with QC and dropping the legal battle.
Time will tell us how dramatic that situation really was, but IMO it had the makings of a massive strategic error until they gained access to QC's latest modem tech.
You seem to be the one that paints 5G performance with a single brush, not me. It depends completely on the band. 5G isn't magically going to make 4G low band existing buildout all that much faster.
As for your meme that Huawei is more performant than the competition, I don't see that at all, and Western Telecom Manufacturers actually have the bulk of useful IP. More to the point, why would the West allow Huawei to continue its mercantilists policies based on Government subsidies, and cheap loans, to create an unfair market advantage?
For the record, Germany and France are barely in the Huawei camp at all, and the UK is supporting a complete removal of Huawei by 2027, which kills any interest in installing Huawei 5G. One can imagine that Merkel's replacement could opt for a de facto Huawei ban by effect of security, or human rights concerns?
Oh for fuck's sake, and you follow up with this;
Apple screwed up strategically speaking with their 5G plans. The only way they could save the day was by jumping back into bed with QC and dropping the legal battle.
Time will tell us how dramatic that situation really was, but IMO it had the makings of a massive strategic error until they gained access to QC's latest modem tech.
Do you still have a stick up your ass about something that was resolved over a year ago?
WTF?
Do you even understand how Apple's purchase of Intel's modem business that failed at 5G, and later, the situation where Apple had to deal with Qualcomm, has set up Apple for fully custom modem's, and what that brings to their entire product line integrated into Apple's SOC's?.
Do you really think that Apple, in the long run, is in an inferior position to Qualcomm or Huawei?
I understand it very well. Apple took some strategic decisions which backfired. You can't always get every decision right. It doesn't matter in what timeframe these things happened. The consequences are here now.
They are late to the party. They are not going to ship the modem they planned to. They have abandoned a multi billion patent gamble to have a solution 'now'. You should understand that going without 5G until they could brew their own modem, was never even a option. That would have been an even bigger error and was never going to happen.
'The bulk of useful IP' ? What?
Now you are trying with 'bulk' and 'Western' because you cannot bring yourself to admit that Huawei leads (and by a large margin! ) the core 5G patents.
These are patents that are largely due to their own R&D which you cannot admit to either because it destroys that tired 'Huawei steals' meme.
As for loans and the other claims, a while back I posted a simple video from Huawei itself debunking that claim and it was probably posted in response to another of your affirmations. Repeating yourself won't change the facts. Do you want me to repost that video?
Gaslighting again, I see;
from the comments of your link;
"If you removed all the 5G essential patents and only used in RAN networks then the chart will drop Huawei, Samsung, LG and Qualcomm. Ericsson does not manufacture consumer devices. You need another chart to show patent related to only running 5G radio base stations as well as 5G mobile operator’s Mobil Core."
...
"This article is rather misleading to your readers. Your article should actually break down the 5G patent tallies across the different 5G domains ( Core network , RAN, Transport, Terminals & Devices), that makes it more representative of the current vendor demographics."
...
"How China’s Mercantilist Policies Have Undermined Global Innovation in the Telecom Equipment Industry
An interesting read here to understand how the telco industry has been hurt and distorted for the pas decades
Without unfair, mercantilist Chinese government policies and programs for its telecom giants, China would lack a globally competitive telecom equipment industry. Neither Huawei, nor ZTE, would have more than minor market shares, even in China.
Chinese market-share gains have come at the expense of innovative telecom equipment providers in other countries. By artificially taking market share from more innovative companies, the latter have had less revenue to invest in cutting-edge R&D.
As a share of sales, leading non-Chinese equipment companies invest more in R&D, and patent and contribute more to international standards when compared to Huawei and ZTE.
Beijing’s policies dramatically limit foreign access to China’s huge telecom markets, providing them with a guaranteed source of revenue to attack foreign competitors.
We estimate that if Ericsson and Nokia took all of Huawei and ZTE sales, there would be 20 percent more global telecom equipment R&D and 75 percent more essential 5G patents.
Democratic market-based nations should no longer purchase equipment from Huawei and ZTE and should encourage other nations to not buy Chinese telecom gear.
This will send a clear message to China that, going forward, systemic innovation mercantilism that hinders global technological innovation will no longer be tolerated.
Oh, and Apple isn't late to the party; they haven't lost any sales, but have only seen sales delayed, but you certainly come across as a fucking hypocrite for still not owning a 5G smartphone that you claim is unparalleled in its abilities.
Wow! That man has a problem with China.
The piece is literally full of pot holes.
So, he is promoting that the rest of the world stop purchasing Chinese technology (his bias is clear, btw) and at the same time admitting that current dominance by the Chinese was brought about by Western ICT companies admitting that they couldn't NOT do business with China!
He deliberately ignores how the US raped and pillaged the 'IP' landscape to even have a chance to become what it is now (or was, because a lot of his thinking is squarely anchored in a period of over 20 years ago.
He tip toes through the minefield which is the Trump administration today and policy making (largely doing - now - what the Chinese have done before) and can't get away from the fact that Huawei is NOT China!
He has the nerve to say that China restricting access to its ICT market (the biggest on the planet) is basically evil while ignoring the fact that the US hasn't 'restricted' access to its (also huge) market by Chinese ICT firms but outright banned them!
5G is not 3G! Huawei is where it is through very good management and R&D.
And let's not forget (something that I think he fluffs over too - I got tired of reading the bias) that there was a time - not long ago - when ALL governments were protectionist. Those nationalised industries had direct 100% state backing and many examples still exist all over the place.
The man set out to paint a picture and did it. More interesting is what he didn't say or simply skimped over.
Anyway, once again take the debate into the purely political sphere.
And on patents you pick this from the article:
"if you removed all the essential 5G patents..."
What? That was the whole point of posting the link! Yes, the 'essential' patents!
And yes. IMO Apple committed some strategic errors with 5G. And I've stated why.
You posted the original piece, and people responded, rightly, to the lack of specificity of those patents counts. Now you're obfuscating what those comments are about.
Nobody cares, and frankly, China is the cause of Huawei's downfall, not the U.S., due to the close connection with the PRC and the CCP, which you always deny. Don't worry though, China will ensure plenty of growth for Huawei in 3rd world countries via the BRI.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Because I call bull to the Trumper's false accusations I'm "least educated"? Really? Ok, if you say so...
But thanks for clarifying that your ongoing "Communism" rant has no substance. You just hate China.
And thanks too for clarifying that it is the U.S. who is the aggressor against China.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Because I call bull to the Trumper's false accusations I'm "least educated"? Really? Ok, if you say so...
But thanks for clarifying that your ongoing "Communism" rant has no substance. You just hate China.
And thanks too for clarifying that it is the U.S. who is the aggressor against China.
You probably don't have enough knowledge of history to understand that Mainland China has the same aspirations that Japan did in the 1930's, only on a global scale. Fortunately, the U.S. was able to respond in a short time to that and roll it back in 4 years.
This time around, the conflict will be decided in hours, days, and months, and with a heck of a lot of collateral damage. People like yourself that are blind to China's ambitions will certainly be "shocked" when China decides its time to release its military on the world.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Because I call bull to the Trumper's false accusations I'm "least educated"? Really? Ok, if you say so...
But thanks for clarifying that your ongoing "Communism" rant has no substance. You just hate China.
And thanks too for clarifying that it is the U.S. who is the aggressor against China.
You probably don't have enough knowledge of history to understand that Mainland China has the same aspirations that Japan did in the 1930's, only on a global scale. Fortunately, the U.S. was able to respond in a short time to that and roll it back in 4 years.
This time around, the conflict will be decided in hours, days, and months, and with a heck of a lot of collateral damage. People like yourself that are blind to China's ambitions will certainly be "shocked" when China decides its time to release its military on the world.
No one could imagine...
That's only "true" to the fools who believe the ConMan.
I'll wait for some evidence of his claims.
But even he stopped claiming that China has or is doing anything nefarious. Instead its now: "I think they're bad -- so the MIGHT do something SOMEDAY!".
Funny, Russia is doing something nefarious today. It's well documented. But, somehow he got the Trumpers all in a dither over China.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Because I call bull to the Trumper's false accusations I'm "least educated"? Really? Ok, if you say so...
But thanks for clarifying that your ongoing "Communism" rant has no substance. You just hate China.
And thanks too for clarifying that it is the U.S. who is the aggressor against China.
You probably don't have enough knowledge of history to understand that Mainland China has the same aspirations that Japan did in the 1930's, only on a global scale. Fortunately, the U.S. was able to respond in a short time to that and roll it back in 4 years.
This time around, the conflict will be decided in hours, days, and months, and with a heck of a lot of collateral damage. People like yourself that are blind to China's ambitions will certainly be "shocked" when China decides its time to release its military on the world.
No one could imagine...
That's only "true" to the fools who believe the ConMan.
I'll wait for some evidence of his claims.
But even he stopped claiming that China has or is doing anything nefarious. Instead its now: "I think they're bad -- so the MIGHT do something SOMEDAY!".
Funny, Russia is doing something nefarious today. It's well documented. But, somehow he got the Trumpers all in a dither over China.
You've anchored yourself to Trump so much that you can't see the forest for the tress. That's fucked up, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You will be able to look clearly at the world when, and if, there is a new administration on January 20, 2021. It would be best if you removed your rose colored glasses on China. The CCP/PRC/Xi Jinping are up to no good.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Because I call bull to the Trumper's false accusations I'm "least educated"? Really? Ok, if you say so...
But thanks for clarifying that your ongoing "Communism" rant has no substance. You just hate China.
And thanks too for clarifying that it is the U.S. who is the aggressor against China.
You probably don't have enough knowledge of history to understand that Mainland China has the same aspirations that Japan did in the 1930's, only on a global scale. Fortunately, the U.S. was able to respond in a short time to that and roll it back in 4 years.
This time around, the conflict will be decided in hours, days, and months, and with a heck of a lot of collateral damage. People like yourself that are blind to China's ambitions will certainly be "shocked" when China decides its time to release its military on the world.
No one could imagine...
That's only "true" to the fools who believe the ConMan.
I'll wait for some evidence of his claims.
But even he stopped claiming that China has or is doing anything nefarious. Instead its now: "I think they're bad -- so the MIGHT do something SOMEDAY!".
Funny, Russia is doing something nefarious today. It's well documented. But, somehow he got the Trumpers all in a dither over China.
You've anchored yourself to Trump so much that you can't see the forest for the tress. That's fucked up, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You will be able to look clearly at the world when, and if, there is a new administration on January 20, 2021. It would be best if you removed your rose colored glasses on China. The CCP/PRC/Xi Jinping are up to no good.
In truth, I am no more pro-China than I am pro-any-other country. But I do respect and admire their accomplishments. Please do not mistake my rebuttal of the attacks against that nation as being "for" them. I am simply rebutting mostly political nonsense.
No, a new administration won't change my opinion because I try to base my opinions on facts and evidence from reputable sources.
And, that's the problem here: Trump has been making these "national security" claims throughout the world. But, he is the one saying it, not our intelligence services. And, when he has been pressed to back his claims with evidence he has consistently failed.
So, even if he was not a known liar and conman i would be suspicious of those claims. But, with a consistent and strong history of lies and cons plus a track record of smearing his opponents, there is not a reason in the world to believe him on this -- again, particularly because he has failed to provide a shred of evidence.
To me, it just sounds like just another Trump con.
------------------
Does China pose a threat to the U.S.?
Yes, it is on track to replace us as the world's number one economy and, by some measures, it already has. And, what makes it harder to bear is that they beat us at our own game: capitalism via private enterprise.
My belief is that attacking them, smearing them and so on will, at best, only slow them down. And, in the end will backfire on us as we force them to disconnect from us in ways that will harm us. Instead of attacking China we should be trying to strengthen the U.S. and restore it to some modern version of its former industrial might. But we won't get there by tearing China down. That's a fool's errand.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Because I call bull to the Trumper's false accusations I'm "least educated"? Really? Ok, if you say so...
But thanks for clarifying that your ongoing "Communism" rant has no substance. You just hate China.
And thanks too for clarifying that it is the U.S. who is the aggressor against China.
You probably don't have enough knowledge of history to understand that Mainland China has the same aspirations that Japan did in the 1930's, only on a global scale. Fortunately, the U.S. was able to respond in a short time to that and roll it back in 4 years.
This time around, the conflict will be decided in hours, days, and months, and with a heck of a lot of collateral damage. People like yourself that are blind to China's ambitions will certainly be "shocked" when China decides its time to release its military on the world.
No one could imagine...
That's only "true" to the fools who believe the ConMan.
I'll wait for some evidence of his claims.
But even he stopped claiming that China has or is doing anything nefarious. Instead its now: "I think they're bad -- so the MIGHT do something SOMEDAY!".
Funny, Russia is doing something nefarious today. It's well documented. But, somehow he got the Trumpers all in a dither over China.
You've anchored yourself to Trump so much that you can't see the forest for the tress. That's fucked up, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You will be able to look clearly at the world when, and if, there is a new administration on January 20, 2021. It would be best if you removed your rose colored glasses on China. The CCP/PRC/Xi Jinping are up to no good.
In truth, I am no more pro-China than I am pro-any-other country. But I do respect and admire their accomplishments. Please do not mistake my rebuttal of the attacks against that nation as being "for" them. I am simply rebutting mostly political nonsense.
No, a new administration won't change my opinion because I try to base my opinions on facts and evidence from reputable sources.
And, that's the problem here: Trump has been making these "national security" claims throughout the world. But, he is the one saying it, not our intelligence services. And, when he has been pressed to back his claims with evidence he has consistently failed.
So, even if he was not a known liar and conman i would be suspicious of those claims. But, with a consistent and strong history of lies and cons plus a track record of smearing his opponents, there is not a reason in the world to believe him on this -- again, particularly because he has failed to provide a shred of evidence.
To me, it just sounds like just another Trump con.
------------------
Does China pose a threat to the U.S.?
Yes, it is on track to replace us as the world's number one economy and, by some measures, it already has. And, what makes it harder to bear is that they beat us at our own game: capitalism via private enterprise.
My belief is that attacking them, smearing them and so on will, at best, only slow them down. And, in the end will backfire on us as we force them to disconnect from us in ways that will harm us. Instead of attacking China we should be trying to strengthen the U.S. and restore it to some modern version of its former industrial might. But we won't get there by tearing China down. That's a fool's errand.
You must also "respect" their human rights violations. Fortunately, a new administration isn't' going to roll over on the human rights violations, which really pisses China off.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Because I call bull to the Trumper's false accusations I'm "least educated"? Really? Ok, if you say so...
But thanks for clarifying that your ongoing "Communism" rant has no substance. You just hate China.
And thanks too for clarifying that it is the U.S. who is the aggressor against China.
You probably don't have enough knowledge of history to understand that Mainland China has the same aspirations that Japan did in the 1930's, only on a global scale. Fortunately, the U.S. was able to respond in a short time to that and roll it back in 4 years.
This time around, the conflict will be decided in hours, days, and months, and with a heck of a lot of collateral damage. People like yourself that are blind to China's ambitions will certainly be "shocked" when China decides its time to release its military on the world.
No one could imagine...
That's only "true" to the fools who believe the ConMan.
I'll wait for some evidence of his claims.
But even he stopped claiming that China has or is doing anything nefarious. Instead its now: "I think they're bad -- so the MIGHT do something SOMEDAY!".
Funny, Russia is doing something nefarious today. It's well documented. But, somehow he got the Trumpers all in a dither over China.
You've anchored yourself to Trump so much that you can't see the forest for the tress. That's fucked up, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You will be able to look clearly at the world when, and if, there is a new administration on January 20, 2021. It would be best if you removed your rose colored glasses on China. The CCP/PRC/Xi Jinping are up to no good.
In truth, I am no more pro-China than I am pro-any-other country. But I do respect and admire their accomplishments. Please do not mistake my rebuttal of the attacks against that nation as being "for" them. I am simply rebutting mostly political nonsense.
No, a new administration won't change my opinion because I try to base my opinions on facts and evidence from reputable sources.
And, that's the problem here: Trump has been making these "national security" claims throughout the world. But, he is the one saying it, not our intelligence services. And, when he has been pressed to back his claims with evidence he has consistently failed.
So, even if he was not a known liar and conman i would be suspicious of those claims. But, with a consistent and strong history of lies and cons plus a track record of smearing his opponents, there is not a reason in the world to believe him on this -- again, particularly because he has failed to provide a shred of evidence.
To me, it just sounds like just another Trump con.
------------------
Does China pose a threat to the U.S.?
Yes, it is on track to replace us as the world's number one economy and, by some measures, it already has. And, what makes it harder to bear is that they beat us at our own game: capitalism via private enterprise.
My belief is that attacking them, smearing them and so on will, at best, only slow them down. And, in the end will backfire on us as we force them to disconnect from us in ways that will harm us. Instead of attacking China we should be trying to strengthen the U.S. and restore it to some modern version of its former industrial might. But we won't get there by tearing China down. That's a fool's errand.
You must also "respect" their human rights violations. Fortunately, a new administration isn't' going to roll over on the human rights violations, which really pisses China off.
All actual evidence shows that human rights abuses are no worse there than they are here or in many other countries.
.... If you think the U.S. is a paragon of virtue, freedom and human rights, you simply haven't been paying attention.
Trump is a master at demonizing his opponents to make them look even worse than he is. And, he put forth some of his best efforts with China. Are there human rights abuses there? Of Course! But have they been blown completely out of proportion -- particularly in relation to our own problems and those of other countries? Of course!
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Because I call bull to the Trumper's false accusations I'm "least educated"? Really? Ok, if you say so...
But thanks for clarifying that your ongoing "Communism" rant has no substance. You just hate China.
And thanks too for clarifying that it is the U.S. who is the aggressor against China.
You probably don't have enough knowledge of history to understand that Mainland China has the same aspirations that Japan did in the 1930's, only on a global scale. Fortunately, the U.S. was able to respond in a short time to that and roll it back in 4 years.
This time around, the conflict will be decided in hours, days, and months, and with a heck of a lot of collateral damage. People like yourself that are blind to China's ambitions will certainly be "shocked" when China decides its time to release its military on the world.
No one could imagine...
That's only "true" to the fools who believe the ConMan.
I'll wait for some evidence of his claims.
But even he stopped claiming that China has or is doing anything nefarious. Instead its now: "I think they're bad -- so the MIGHT do something SOMEDAY!".
Funny, Russia is doing something nefarious today. It's well documented. But, somehow he got the Trumpers all in a dither over China.
You've anchored yourself to Trump so much that you can't see the forest for the tress. That's fucked up, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You will be able to look clearly at the world when, and if, there is a new administration on January 20, 2021. It would be best if you removed your rose colored glasses on China. The CCP/PRC/Xi Jinping are up to no good.
In truth, I am no more pro-China than I am pro-any-other country. But I do respect and admire their accomplishments. Please do not mistake my rebuttal of the attacks against that nation as being "for" them. I am simply rebutting mostly political nonsense.
No, a new administration won't change my opinion because I try to base my opinions on facts and evidence from reputable sources.
And, that's the problem here: Trump has been making these "national security" claims throughout the world. But, he is the one saying it, not our intelligence services. And, when he has been pressed to back his claims with evidence he has consistently failed.
So, even if he was not a known liar and conman i would be suspicious of those claims. But, with a consistent and strong history of lies and cons plus a track record of smearing his opponents, there is not a reason in the world to believe him on this -- again, particularly because he has failed to provide a shred of evidence.
To me, it just sounds like just another Trump con.
------------------
Does China pose a threat to the U.S.?
Yes, it is on track to replace us as the world's number one economy and, by some measures, it already has. And, what makes it harder to bear is that they beat us at our own game: capitalism via private enterprise.
My belief is that attacking them, smearing them and so on will, at best, only slow them down. And, in the end will backfire on us as we force them to disconnect from us in ways that will harm us. Instead of attacking China we should be trying to strengthen the U.S. and restore it to some modern version of its former industrial might. But we won't get there by tearing China down. That's a fool's errand.
You must also "respect" their human rights violations. Fortunately, a new administration isn't' going to roll over on the human rights violations, which really pisses China off.
All actual evidence shows that human rights abuses are no worse there than they are here or in many other countries.
.... If you think the U.S. is a paragon of virtue, freedom and human rights, you simply haven't been paying attention.
Trump is a master at demonizing his opponents to make them look even worse than he is. And, he put forth some of his best efforts with China. Are there human rights abuses there? Of Course! But have they been blown completely out of proportion -- particularly in relation to our own problems and those of other countries? Of course!
"When I was governor of Hong Kong, one of my noisiest critics was Sir Percy Cradock, a former British ambassador to China. Cradock always argued that China would never break its solemn promises, memorialised in a treaty lodged at the UN, to guarantee Hong Kong’s high degree of autonomy and way of life for 50 years after the return of the city from British to Chinese sovereignty in 1997.
Cradock once memorably said that although China’s leaders may be “thuggish dictators”, they were “men of their word” and could be “trusted to do what they promise”. Nowadays, we have overwhelming evidence of the truth of the first half of that observation.
Chinese President Xi Jinping’s dictatorship is certainly thuggish. Consider its policies in Xinjiang. Many international lawyers argue that the incarceration of over one million Muslim Uighurs, forced sterilisation and abortion, and slave labour meet the UN definition of genocide. This wicked repression goes beyond thuggery.
A recent Australian Strategic Policy Institute study based on satellite images indicates that China has built 380 internment camps in Xinjiang, including 14 still under construction. Having initially denied that these camps even existed, some Chinese officials now claim that most people detained in them have already been returned to their own communities. Clearly, this is far from the truth."
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Because I call bull to the Trumper's false accusations I'm "least educated"? Really? Ok, if you say so...
But thanks for clarifying that your ongoing "Communism" rant has no substance. You just hate China.
And thanks too for clarifying that it is the U.S. who is the aggressor against China.
You probably don't have enough knowledge of history to understand that Mainland China has the same aspirations that Japan did in the 1930's, only on a global scale. Fortunately, the U.S. was able to respond in a short time to that and roll it back in 4 years.
This time around, the conflict will be decided in hours, days, and months, and with a heck of a lot of collateral damage. People like yourself that are blind to China's ambitions will certainly be "shocked" when China decides its time to release its military on the world.
No one could imagine...
That's only "true" to the fools who believe the ConMan.
I'll wait for some evidence of his claims.
But even he stopped claiming that China has or is doing anything nefarious. Instead its now: "I think they're bad -- so the MIGHT do something SOMEDAY!".
Funny, Russia is doing something nefarious today. It's well documented. But, somehow he got the Trumpers all in a dither over China.
You've anchored yourself to Trump so much that you can't see the forest for the tress. That's fucked up, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You will be able to look clearly at the world when, and if, there is a new administration on January 20, 2021. It would be best if you removed your rose colored glasses on China. The CCP/PRC/Xi Jinping are up to no good.
In truth, I am no more pro-China than I am pro-any-other country. But I do respect and admire their accomplishments. Please do not mistake my rebuttal of the attacks against that nation as being "for" them. I am simply rebutting mostly political nonsense.
No, a new administration won't change my opinion because I try to base my opinions on facts and evidence from reputable sources.
And, that's the problem here: Trump has been making these "national security" claims throughout the world. But, he is the one saying it, not our intelligence services. And, when he has been pressed to back his claims with evidence he has consistently failed.
So, even if he was not a known liar and conman i would be suspicious of those claims. But, with a consistent and strong history of lies and cons plus a track record of smearing his opponents, there is not a reason in the world to believe him on this -- again, particularly because he has failed to provide a shred of evidence.
To me, it just sounds like just another Trump con.
------------------
Does China pose a threat to the U.S.?
Yes, it is on track to replace us as the world's number one economy and, by some measures, it already has. And, what makes it harder to bear is that they beat us at our own game: capitalism via private enterprise.
My belief is that attacking them, smearing them and so on will, at best, only slow them down. And, in the end will backfire on us as we force them to disconnect from us in ways that will harm us. Instead of attacking China we should be trying to strengthen the U.S. and restore it to some modern version of its former industrial might. But we won't get there by tearing China down. That's a fool's errand.
You must also "respect" their human rights violations. Fortunately, a new administration isn't' going to roll over on the human rights violations, which really pisses China off.
All actual evidence shows that human rights abuses are no worse there than they are here or in many other countries.
.... If you think the U.S. is a paragon of virtue, freedom and human rights, you simply haven't been paying attention.
Trump is a master at demonizing his opponents to make them look even worse than he is. And, he put forth some of his best efforts with China. Are there human rights abuses there? Of Course! But have they been blown completely out of proportion -- particularly in relation to our own problems and those of other countries? Of course!
"When I was governor of Hong Kong, one of my noisiest critics was Sir Percy Cradock, a former British ambassador to China. Cradock always argued that China would never break its solemn promises, memorialised in a treaty lodged at the UN, to guarantee Hong Kong’s high degree of autonomy and way of life for 50 years after the return of the city from British to Chinese sovereignty in 1997.
Cradock once memorably said that although China’s leaders may be “thuggish dictators”, they were “men of their word” and could be “trusted to do what they promise”. Nowadays, we have overwhelming evidence of the truth of the first half of that observation.
Chinese President Xi Jinping’s dictatorship is certainly thuggish. Consider its policies in Xinjiang. Many international lawyers argue that the incarceration of over one million Muslim Uighurs, forced sterilisation and abortion, and slave labour meet the UN definition of genocide. This wicked repression goes beyond thuggery.
A recent Australian Strategic Policy Institute study based on satellite images indicates that China has built 380 internment camps in Xinjiang, including 14 still under construction. Having initially denied that these camps even existed, some Chinese officials now claim that most people detained in them have already been returned to their own communities. Clearly, this is far from the truth."
But keep on pimping China...
Looking at both sides of the picture isn't pimping. It's reality.
... And that is particularly true when that one side you look at is based on propaganda, speculation and false assumptions -- in other words "smear campaigns".
For example:
I could make a case that "In the U.S innocent black people are being gunned down daily in a planned and systemic genocide."
.... While that has just enough of a grain of truth in it to call it "factual", it would still be a lie. Just like your "factual" statements about China.
That's how most propaganda works. It takes a grain of truth, an isolated fact, and blows it all out of proportion and generalizes it across the board to generate fear, hate and outrage.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Because I call bull to the Trumper's false accusations I'm "least educated"? Really? Ok, if you say so...
But thanks for clarifying that your ongoing "Communism" rant has no substance. You just hate China.
And thanks too for clarifying that it is the U.S. who is the aggressor against China.
You probably don't have enough knowledge of history to understand that Mainland China has the same aspirations that Japan did in the 1930's, only on a global scale. Fortunately, the U.S. was able to respond in a short time to that and roll it back in 4 years.
This time around, the conflict will be decided in hours, days, and months, and with a heck of a lot of collateral damage. People like yourself that are blind to China's ambitions will certainly be "shocked" when China decides its time to release its military on the world.
No one could imagine...
That's only "true" to the fools who believe the ConMan.
I'll wait for some evidence of his claims.
But even he stopped claiming that China has or is doing anything nefarious. Instead its now: "I think they're bad -- so the MIGHT do something SOMEDAY!".
Funny, Russia is doing something nefarious today. It's well documented. But, somehow he got the Trumpers all in a dither over China.
You've anchored yourself to Trump so much that you can't see the forest for the tress. That's fucked up, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You will be able to look clearly at the world when, and if, there is a new administration on January 20, 2021. It would be best if you removed your rose colored glasses on China. The CCP/PRC/Xi Jinping are up to no good.
In truth, I am no more pro-China than I am pro-any-other country. But I do respect and admire their accomplishments. Please do not mistake my rebuttal of the attacks against that nation as being "for" them. I am simply rebutting mostly political nonsense.
No, a new administration won't change my opinion because I try to base my opinions on facts and evidence from reputable sources.
And, that's the problem here: Trump has been making these "national security" claims throughout the world. But, he is the one saying it, not our intelligence services. And, when he has been pressed to back his claims with evidence he has consistently failed.
So, even if he was not a known liar and conman i would be suspicious of those claims. But, with a consistent and strong history of lies and cons plus a track record of smearing his opponents, there is not a reason in the world to believe him on this -- again, particularly because he has failed to provide a shred of evidence.
To me, it just sounds like just another Trump con.
------------------
Does China pose a threat to the U.S.?
Yes, it is on track to replace us as the world's number one economy and, by some measures, it already has. And, what makes it harder to bear is that they beat us at our own game: capitalism via private enterprise.
My belief is that attacking them, smearing them and so on will, at best, only slow them down. And, in the end will backfire on us as we force them to disconnect from us in ways that will harm us. Instead of attacking China we should be trying to strengthen the U.S. and restore it to some modern version of its former industrial might. But we won't get there by tearing China down. That's a fool's errand.
You must also "respect" their human rights violations. Fortunately, a new administration isn't' going to roll over on the human rights violations, which really pisses China off.
All actual evidence shows that human rights abuses are no worse there than they are here or in many other countries.
.... If you think the U.S. is a paragon of virtue, freedom and human rights, you simply haven't been paying attention.
Trump is a master at demonizing his opponents to make them look even worse than he is. And, he put forth some of his best efforts with China. Are there human rights abuses there? Of Course! But have they been blown completely out of proportion -- particularly in relation to our own problems and those of other countries? Of course!
"When I was governor of Hong Kong, one of my noisiest critics was Sir Percy Cradock, a former British ambassador to China. Cradock always argued that China would never break its solemn promises, memorialised in a treaty lodged at the UN, to guarantee Hong Kong’s high degree of autonomy and way of life for 50 years after the return of the city from British to Chinese sovereignty in 1997.
Cradock once memorably said that although China’s leaders may be “thuggish dictators”, they were “men of their word” and could be “trusted to do what they promise”. Nowadays, we have overwhelming evidence of the truth of the first half of that observation.
Chinese President Xi Jinping’s dictatorship is certainly thuggish. Consider its policies in Xinjiang. Many international lawyers argue that the incarceration of over one million Muslim Uighurs, forced sterilisation and abortion, and slave labour meet the UN definition of genocide. This wicked repression goes beyond thuggery.
A recent Australian Strategic Policy Institute study based on satellite images indicates that China has built 380 internment camps in Xinjiang, including 14 still under construction. Having initially denied that these camps even existed, some Chinese officials now claim that most people detained in them have already been returned to their own communities. Clearly, this is far from the truth."
But keep on pimping China...
Looking at both sides of the picture isn't pimping. It's reality.
... And that is particularly true when that one side you look at is based on propaganda, speculation and false assumptions -- in other words "smear campaigns".
For example:
I could make a case that "In the U.S innocent black people are being gunned down daily in a planned and systemic genocide."
.... While that has just enough of a grain of truth in it to call it "factual", it would still be a lie. Just like your "factual" statements about China.
That's how most propaganda works. It takes a grain of truth, an isolated fact, and blows it all out of proportion and generalizes it across the board to generate fear, hate and outrage.
You really are ignorant, bur more so, proud of it.
All of these stories about the Xin Jiang province and prisons with likely more than a million muslim prisoners, are multiple sourced from reporters and technical means (satellite imagery) from around the world. These are "facts". These prisons are also showing up in Tibet as Tibetans are moved off of their ancestral lands.
Ignore a particular person here. There's an agenda at work that requires he sow mistrust of the US using half-truths if needed, dispersing negatives regarding China with false equivalencies as they see fit, LOL-ing any unfriendly facts that he can't dispute, and often referring to your opinions as propaganda without offering anything that factually disputes what you say.
He says he relies on "trusted sources" without naming any of them, and is prone to peddling his own propaganda talking points that oddly enough are the same ones promoted by Chinese authorities in dealing with other types of government.
He states odd things as facts but rarely with sources or links confirming them, and when challenged the fallback is often "I prefer facts and truth" without anything further.
When presented with an opinion that cannot be argued against with logic he shifts to fallacies: Change the discussion to something more favorable, make-believe he's confused about what is being challenged, resorts to name-calling, and/or questioning your character instead of the message (aka killing the messenger).
You can't argue with a dishonest debater. Don't feel you owe anyone a reply. Just understand who the person is. You put in the time-consuming work making a cogent argument and then a person comes back with some trite response, typically three lines or less., that requires zero research, little thought, and 30 seconds at the keyboard. They aren't really interested in learning or exploring and will ignore most of what you say, not bothering with following any links for a better understanding of where your opinion is coming from.
it requires way too much effort to engage with someone with no interest in anything that might put the veracity of their agenda in question, or better yet inspecting their own beliefs. Continue posting what you post, you do admirable research, and if that person complains let them do so alone. That particular person seems to derive far too much pleasure from being contrary, rude, and dismissive, and no sense in giving the agenda they drive more air to breathe.
Ignore a particular person here. There's an agenda at work that requires he sow mistrust of the US using half-truths if needed, dispersing negatives regarding China with false equivalencies as they see fit, LOL-ing any unfriendly facts that he can't dispute, and often referring to your opinions as propaganda without offering anything that factually disputes what you say.
He says he relies on "trusted sources" without naming any of them, and is prone to peddling his own propaganda talking points that oddly enough are the same ones promoted by Chinese authorities in dealing with other types of government.
He states odd things as facts but rarely with sources or links confirming them, and when challenged the fallback is often "I prefer facts and truth" without anything further.
When presented with an opinion that cannot be argued against with logic he shifts to fallacies: Change the discussion to something more favorable, make-believe he's confused about what is being challenged, resorts to name-calling, and/or questioning your character instead of the message (aka killing the messenger).
You can't argue with a dishonest debater. Don't feel you owe anyone a reply. Just understand who the person is. You put in the time-consuming work making a cogent argument and then a person comes back with some trite response, typically three lines or less., that requires zero research, little thought, and 30 seconds at the keyboard. They aren't really interested in learning or exploring and will ignore most of what you say, not bothering with following any links for a better understanding of where your opinion is coming from.
it requires way too much effort to engage with someone with no interest in anything that might put the veracity of their agenda in question, or better yet inspecting their own beliefs. Continue posting what you post, you do admirable research, and if that person complains let them do so alone. A certain poster here seems to derive far too much pleasure out of being contrary, rude, and dismissive, and no sense in giving the agenda they drive more air to breathe.
"BEIJING/SINGAPORE/SHENZHEN, China (Reuters) - China is preparing to launch an antitrust probe into Alphabet Inc's GOOGL.O Google, looking into allegations it has leveraged the dominance of its Android mobile operating system to stifle competition, two people familiar with the matter said."
"The case was proposed by telecommunications equipment giant Huawei Technologies Co Ltd last year and has been submitted by the country’s top market regulator to the State Council’s antitrust committee for review, they added."
Ignore a particular person here. There's an agenda at work that requires he sow mistrust of the US using half-truths if needed, dispersing negatives regarding China with false equivalencies as they see fit, LOL-ing any unfriendly facts that he can't dispute, and often referring to your opinions as propaganda without offering anything that factually disputes what you say.
He says he relies on "trusted sources" without naming any of them, and is prone to peddling his own propaganda talking points that oddly enough are the same ones promoted by Chinese authorities in dealing with other types of government.
He states odd things as facts but rarely with sources or links confirming them, and when challenged the fallback is often "I prefer facts and truth" without anything further.
When presented with an opinion that cannot be argued against with logic he shifts to fallacies: Change the discussion to something more favorable, make-believe he's confused about what is being challenged, resorts to name-calling, and/or questioning your character instead of the message (aka killing the messenger).
You can't argue with a dishonest debater. Don't feel you owe anyone a reply. Just understand who the person is. You put in the time-consuming work making a cogent argument and then a person comes back with some trite response, typically three lines or less., that requires zero research, little thought, and 30 seconds at the keyboard. They aren't really interested in learning or exploring and will ignore most of what you say, not bothering with following any links for a better understanding of where your opinion is coming from.
it requires way too much effort to engage with someone with no interest in anything that might put the veracity of their agenda in question, or better yet inspecting their own beliefs. Continue posting what you post, you do admirable research, and if that person complains let them do so alone. That particular person seems to derive far too much pleasure from being contrary, rude, and dismissive, and no sense in giving the agenda they drive more air to breathe.
No, don't worry Gatorguy we won't ignore you, we love you. Even if you are misinformed.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Because I call bull to the Trumper's false accusations I'm "least educated"? Really? Ok, if you say so...
But thanks for clarifying that your ongoing "Communism" rant has no substance. You just hate China.
And thanks too for clarifying that it is the U.S. who is the aggressor against China.
You probably don't have enough knowledge of history to understand that Mainland China has the same aspirations that Japan did in the 1930's, only on a global scale. Fortunately, the U.S. was able to respond in a short time to that and roll it back in 4 years.
This time around, the conflict will be decided in hours, days, and months, and with a heck of a lot of collateral damage. People like yourself that are blind to China's ambitions will certainly be "shocked" when China decides its time to release its military on the world.
No one could imagine...
That's only "true" to the fools who believe the ConMan.
I'll wait for some evidence of his claims.
But even he stopped claiming that China has or is doing anything nefarious. Instead its now: "I think they're bad -- so the MIGHT do something SOMEDAY!".
Funny, Russia is doing something nefarious today. It's well documented. But, somehow he got the Trumpers all in a dither over China.
You've anchored yourself to Trump so much that you can't see the forest for the tress. That's fucked up, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You will be able to look clearly at the world when, and if, there is a new administration on January 20, 2021. It would be best if you removed your rose colored glasses on China. The CCP/PRC/Xi Jinping are up to no good.
In truth, I am no more pro-China than I am pro-any-other country. But I do respect and admire their accomplishments. Please do not mistake my rebuttal of the attacks against that nation as being "for" them. I am simply rebutting mostly political nonsense.
No, a new administration won't change my opinion because I try to base my opinions on facts and evidence from reputable sources.
And, that's the problem here: Trump has been making these "national security" claims throughout the world. But, he is the one saying it, not our intelligence services. And, when he has been pressed to back his claims with evidence he has consistently failed.
So, even if he was not a known liar and conman i would be suspicious of those claims. But, with a consistent and strong history of lies and cons plus a track record of smearing his opponents, there is not a reason in the world to believe him on this -- again, particularly because he has failed to provide a shred of evidence.
To me, it just sounds like just another Trump con.
------------------
Does China pose a threat to the U.S.?
Yes, it is on track to replace us as the world's number one economy and, by some measures, it already has. And, what makes it harder to bear is that they beat us at our own game: capitalism via private enterprise.
My belief is that attacking them, smearing them and so on will, at best, only slow them down. And, in the end will backfire on us as we force them to disconnect from us in ways that will harm us. Instead of attacking China we should be trying to strengthen the U.S. and restore it to some modern version of its former industrial might. But we won't get there by tearing China down. That's a fool's errand.
You must also "respect" their human rights violations. Fortunately, a new administration isn't' going to roll over on the human rights violations, which really pisses China off.
All actual evidence shows that human rights abuses are no worse there than they are here or in many other countries.
.... If you think the U.S. is a paragon of virtue, freedom and human rights, you simply haven't been paying attention.
Trump is a master at demonizing his opponents to make them look even worse than he is. And, he put forth some of his best efforts with China. Are there human rights abuses there? Of Course! But have they been blown completely out of proportion -- particularly in relation to our own problems and those of other countries? Of course!
"When I was governor of Hong Kong, one of my noisiest critics was Sir Percy Cradock, a former British ambassador to China. Cradock always argued that China would never break its solemn promises, memorialised in a treaty lodged at the UN, to guarantee Hong Kong’s high degree of autonomy and way of life for 50 years after the return of the city from British to Chinese sovereignty in 1997.
Cradock once memorably said that although China’s leaders may be “thuggish dictators”, they were “men of their word” and could be “trusted to do what they promise”. Nowadays, we have overwhelming evidence of the truth of the first half of that observation.
Chinese President Xi Jinping’s dictatorship is certainly thuggish. Consider its policies in Xinjiang. Many international lawyers argue that the incarceration of over one million Muslim Uighurs, forced sterilisation and abortion, and slave labour meet the UN definition of genocide. This wicked repression goes beyond thuggery.
A recent Australian Strategic Policy Institute study based on satellite images indicates that China has built 380 internment camps in Xinjiang, including 14 still under construction. Having initially denied that these camps even existed, some Chinese officials now claim that most people detained in them have already been returned to their own communities. Clearly, this is far from the truth."
But keep on pimping China...
Looking at both sides of the picture isn't pimping. It's reality.
... And that is particularly true when that one side you look at is based on propaganda, speculation and false assumptions -- in other words "smear campaigns".
For example:
I could make a case that "In the U.S innocent black people are being gunned down daily in a planned and systemic genocide."
.... While that has just enough of a grain of truth in it to call it "factual", it would still be a lie. Just like your "factual" statements about China.
That's how most propaganda works. It takes a grain of truth, an isolated fact, and blows it all out of proportion and generalizes it across the board to generate fear, hate and outrage.
You really are ignorant, bur more so, proud of it.
All of these stories about the Xin Jiang province and prisons with likely more than a million muslim prisoners, are multiple sourced from reporters and technical means (satellite imagery) from around the world. These are "facts". These prisons are also showing up in Tibet as Tibetans are moved off of their ancestral lands.
I am always suspicious when a hate monger stirs up fear and hate -- and then a smear campaign starts popping up stories.
What about the hundreds of for-profit prisons here? China could call them "concentration camps" for black people just as easily. Would that make it true?
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Because I call bull to the Trumper's false accusations I'm "least educated"? Really? Ok, if you say so...
But thanks for clarifying that your ongoing "Communism" rant has no substance. You just hate China.
And thanks too for clarifying that it is the U.S. who is the aggressor against China.
You probably don't have enough knowledge of history to understand that Mainland China has the same aspirations that Japan did in the 1930's, only on a global scale. Fortunately, the U.S. was able to respond in a short time to that and roll it back in 4 years.
This time around, the conflict will be decided in hours, days, and months, and with a heck of a lot of collateral damage. People like yourself that are blind to China's ambitions will certainly be "shocked" when China decides its time to release its military on the world.
No one could imagine...
That's only "true" to the fools who believe the ConMan.
I'll wait for some evidence of his claims.
But even he stopped claiming that China has or is doing anything nefarious. Instead its now: "I think they're bad -- so the MIGHT do something SOMEDAY!".
Funny, Russia is doing something nefarious today. It's well documented. But, somehow he got the Trumpers all in a dither over China.
You've anchored yourself to Trump so much that you can't see the forest for the tress. That's fucked up, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You will be able to look clearly at the world when, and if, there is a new administration on January 20, 2021. It would be best if you removed your rose colored glasses on China. The CCP/PRC/Xi Jinping are up to no good.
In truth, I am no more pro-China than I am pro-any-other country. But I do respect and admire their accomplishments. Please do not mistake my rebuttal of the attacks against that nation as being "for" them. I am simply rebutting mostly political nonsense.
No, a new administration won't change my opinion because I try to base my opinions on facts and evidence from reputable sources.
And, that's the problem here: Trump has been making these "national security" claims throughout the world. But, he is the one saying it, not our intelligence services. And, when he has been pressed to back his claims with evidence he has consistently failed.
So, even if he was not a known liar and conman i would be suspicious of those claims. But, with a consistent and strong history of lies and cons plus a track record of smearing his opponents, there is not a reason in the world to believe him on this -- again, particularly because he has failed to provide a shred of evidence.
To me, it just sounds like just another Trump con.
------------------
Does China pose a threat to the U.S.?
Yes, it is on track to replace us as the world's number one economy and, by some measures, it already has. And, what makes it harder to bear is that they beat us at our own game: capitalism via private enterprise.
My belief is that attacking them, smearing them and so on will, at best, only slow them down. And, in the end will backfire on us as we force them to disconnect from us in ways that will harm us. Instead of attacking China we should be trying to strengthen the U.S. and restore it to some modern version of its former industrial might. But we won't get there by tearing China down. That's a fool's errand.
You must also "respect" their human rights violations. Fortunately, a new administration isn't' going to roll over on the human rights violations, which really pisses China off.
All actual evidence shows that human rights abuses are no worse there than they are here or in many other countries.
.... If you think the U.S. is a paragon of virtue, freedom and human rights, you simply haven't been paying attention.
Trump is a master at demonizing his opponents to make them look even worse than he is. And, he put forth some of his best efforts with China. Are there human rights abuses there? Of Course! But have they been blown completely out of proportion -- particularly in relation to our own problems and those of other countries? Of course!
"When I was governor of Hong Kong, one of my noisiest critics was Sir Percy Cradock, a former British ambassador to China. Cradock always argued that China would never break its solemn promises, memorialised in a treaty lodged at the UN, to guarantee Hong Kong’s high degree of autonomy and way of life for 50 years after the return of the city from British to Chinese sovereignty in 1997.
Cradock once memorably said that although China’s leaders may be “thuggish dictators”, they were “men of their word” and could be “trusted to do what they promise”. Nowadays, we have overwhelming evidence of the truth of the first half of that observation.
Chinese President Xi Jinping’s dictatorship is certainly thuggish. Consider its policies in Xinjiang. Many international lawyers argue that the incarceration of over one million Muslim Uighurs, forced sterilisation and abortion, and slave labour meet the UN definition of genocide. This wicked repression goes beyond thuggery.
A recent Australian Strategic Policy Institute study based on satellite images indicates that China has built 380 internment camps in Xinjiang, including 14 still under construction. Having initially denied that these camps even existed, some Chinese officials now claim that most people detained in them have already been returned to their own communities. Clearly, this is far from the truth."
But keep on pimping China...
Looking at both sides of the picture isn't pimping. It's reality.
... And that is particularly true when that one side you look at is based on propaganda, speculation and false assumptions -- in other words "smear campaigns".
For example:
I could make a case that "In the U.S innocent black people are being gunned down daily in a planned and systemic genocide."
.... While that has just enough of a grain of truth in it to call it "factual", it would still be a lie. Just like your "factual" statements about China.
That's how most propaganda works. It takes a grain of truth, an isolated fact, and blows it all out of proportion and generalizes it across the board to generate fear, hate and outrage.
You really are ignorant, bur more so, proud of it.
All of these stories about the Xin Jiang province and prisons with likely more than a million muslim prisoners, are multiple sourced from reporters and technical means (satellite imagery) from around the world. These are "facts". These prisons are also showing up in Tibet as Tibetans are moved off of their ancestral lands.
I am always suspicious when a hate monger stirs up fear and hate -- and then a smear campaign starts popping up stories.
What about the hundreds of for-profit prisons here? China could call them "concentration camps" for black people just as easily. Would that make it true?
"Since the beginning of 2020, China has transferred over 500,000 Tibetan farmers and herders into “military-style” vocational training camps, says a US think tank.
A report by the Jamestown Foundation claims that there are ‘significant’ similarities between the labour camps in Tibet and the system of “coercive vocational training and labour transfer” in Xinjiang."
"The report claims that a militarised training process in these camps involves thought transformation, patriotic and legal education and Chinese language teaching.
“While some Tibetans may voluntarily participate in some or all aspects of the scheme, and while their incomes may indeed increase as a result, the systemic presence of clear indicators of coercion and indoctrination, coupled with a profound and potentially permanent change in modes of livelihood, is highly problematic,” says the report."
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
It is being used now for low latency mobile gaming. It's rolling out on cars. It's getting into IoT. Network slicing is providing many structural improvements that have a direct impact on mobile users. It is being combined with WiFi to improve on standards etc. Handsets will remain the hub for much of this.
It seems little of this is happening in the US though and when you move from 5G in a consumer setting and into an industrial setting, you begin to understand the concern of US strategists and how the US could fall (is falling) behind.
I've just finished reviewing Huawei's Connect 2020 show and new industrial 5G projects are coming online daily and these solutions are being exported.
I actually saw the remote crane operation in real time (not a simple demo) and this has now reached maturity as these 5G projects began on site a couple of years ago.
Now projects are ready for deployment in science, health, logistics, education, energy, farming, heavy industry, aviation etc and it becomes not only 5G but 5G plus its supporting services.
So while the US scurries to fend off China at every 5G turn, China is just ploughing on with finding uses for the infrastructure (which is already deployed in key areas).
Pulling Huawei Smart Inverters out of solar energy plants in the US has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with protectionism and trying to slow China down.
The US (and Apple) are late to 5G but it could have been far worse. Better late than never but 5G isn't 'hype' (not even with the half baked approach to infrastructure that seems to plague telecommunications deployment in the US) and with a little luck US purchasers of these new iPhones will see the advantages well within the lifetime of the phones.
There seems to be little real competition.
And now we are seeing non-ICT companies purchasing spectrum in places like Germany. The big car manufacturers for example. Could that happen in the US?
Whichever way you look at it, Apple absolutely needs 5G in China now.
“With 5G everything happens in a millisecond. A millisecond is what makes remote surgery, autonomous cars, the smart management of energy resources and cities and highly advanced entertainment possible. A millisecond is much more than a new response time. It’s Telefónica’s response to the new times. It’s Telefónica’s commitment to the country’s future.”
There was even more of this hyperbolic gushing from Álvarez-Pallete, but you get the message: Telefónica to the rescue! He is entitled to crow a bit with such a substantial 5G build-out, but the proof of the putting will be in the speeds. It’s not difficult to provide a lot of coverage using small amounts of low frequency spectrum but, as we’ve seen in the US, if it’s not much faster than 4G then there’s not much point. <<(note that's the hype that I am speaking of).
Telefónica says it’s using 1800-2100 MHz and 3.5 GHz bands for its 5G coverage, neither of which qualify as low frequency, so that makes the coverage claim even more impressive. Whether or not the use of those bands will translate to good capacity and proper 5G speeds remains to be seen, but if it does then Álvarez-Pallete will be entitled to gloat some more."
Where exactly have I misstated the hype of 5G?
The low bands that are prevalent in rural / suburban areas are a little better than current 4G in performance. in the U.S., T-Mobile due of it's merger with Sprint, now owns a lot of the 2.5 Ghz spectrum, which would be fairly defined as midband.
Here's a link to T-Mobiles midband buildout to date:
If you listen to T-Mobile's executives, the company is moving heaven and Earth to upgrade its network to 5G following the close of its merger with Sprint.
"So far so good," said T-Mobile CTO Neville Ray in May, noting the operator has been hanging new 2.5GHz 5G radios on its existing cell towers at the rate of roughly 1,000 towers per month. "We are ramping up in this [pandemic] environment, not actually slowing down."
Overall, T-Mobile has committed to adding 15,000 new cell towers to its network in a 5G upgrade program totalling $60 billion over the next five years.
Regardless, the operator won't make it very far without the aid of companies like Crown Castle and American Towers. As Inside Towers notes, the two companies collectively own around 81,000 of the roughly 200,000 cell towers in the US. Any major network upgrade by T-Mobile would likely need to pass under their noses.
Not surprisingly, some Wall Street analysts are taking the situation seriously. "Crown Castle admitted New T-Mobile [the company that emerged from the combination of T-Mobile and Sprint] had only recently started its build activity, but remained hopeful it would continue ramping in 2H and reiterated its 2020 guide," wrote the Wall Street analysts with Wells Fargo in a note to investors this week. "We appreciate Crown Castle's optimism that New T-Mobile might ramp activity in 2H but are revising our estimates to the low end of its guide."
It's possible that T-Mobile's initial 5G upgrade work has focused on towers owned by other companies, but the situation is nonetheless perplexing given the extra year T-Mobile's 5G buildout plan received due to the opposition it faced over its Sprint merger. Indeed, at least one executive at the company privately hinted to Light Reading of a surprisingly chaotic merger process currently taking place between the two companies."
Show me that there isn't any hype wrt to the buildout; it's going slowly in mid band, and in your own previous arguments, mmwave has poor utility except with a massive density or radios for coverage. Adding a midband radios to only a thousand towers a month when there are 200,000 towers in the U.S, and more needed is absolute hype.
As for China, 5G buildout is easy for an Authoritarian government that has incorporated surveillance in all of its communication strategies, and controls the manufacturers of telecom and surveillance systems.
I tire of your constant support of China, given their military expansionism in the Indo-Pacific, a absolute National Security concern for all Westen Nations, and China's expansion of their minority "retraining" facilities into Tibet, which are prisons.
As for your comment on the iPhone and 5G, Apple isn't late to the party simply because they haven't lost sales to Android OEM's that delivered 5G earlier; it's just delayed sales until this fall.
I'll bet you still are waiting to purchase a 5G smartphone, which belies your argument that Apple is late to the party. People have no problem waiting to buy into 5G.
For most networks, latency is still in the range of 25-30 ms, not "a ms". That too is hype.
I see. You are simply cherry picking quotes in very specific scenarios and then applying your opinion in a generalised fashion to all of 5G.
As is becoming patently clear, the US is looking to be a poor competitor in 5G. Not surprising really when, out of the three major 5G providers, it chose to eliminate the one that could offer massive improvements to US infrastructure. Then it appears that on top of that decision it does not really provide a competitive environment for its carriers to compete against each other. So let's forget the US. Then, at the opposite end of the same spectrum, we have China which is not only ramping up its rollout like there's no tomorrow but it actually bringing mature services to market across all walks of life and exporting them.
Why not actually put that 'millisecond' line back into its correct context:
If you speak Spanish you will see that that line had zero to do with the actual technical specifications of any given use case. It was a very broad summary of 5G and what it offers and how Telefonica and Spanish digital infrastructure is leading the way in the EU with digital communications. You will also note how he says 'each and every person' will have access to 5G and practically in the same breath says the rollout will cover 75% percent of the population before Christmas! Reading that literally is taking it out of context.
The roll out of 5G in Spain is going to be incredibly fast, not only because of 4G backhaul in some cases but because Spain has the most extensive network of fibre in the EU. It won't happen with a flick of a switch. That was never ever the intention. It will still take years but it isn't 'hype'. Expect Spain to follow China's lead in making use of 5G services across the board, and especially in Smart Cities like Barcelona.
Yet, when I argue that "low band" 5G is barely better performing than 4G, it's all about "the future" for the counterarguments. The "hype" is that it is here now, widespread, and massively over performing 4G. None of that is true, for the most part, other than for select urban areas. Maybe there is actually more midband available to date in Spain than the U.S., but at least in the U.S., there is still to be an auction in 2021 for those bands (3.5 Ghz), and Verizon and AT&T, for the most part, have to wait for that auction to upgrade to midband 5G.
In the U.S., most 5G buildout is just repurposed 4G, and that buildout isn't all that fast, and has noting to do with the telecom equipment provider (in the U.S., and many other countries, it won't be Huawei), but all about the task of upgrading radios, antennas, and backhaul, on and to the towers, all of that being non trivial. 5G mmwave is available, again only in selected urban areas.
But again, I feels safe in reiterating; if 5G is so great, why haven't you upgraded yet? Look at all the benefits you are missing out on, by your own arguments.
I'lll be purchasing the iPhone 12, after deciding to pass on the iPhone 11 (I really wanted the LIDAR) feature, with the result that I will choose the Pro Max model which will come with latest the generation 5G modem, the X60, which includes mmwave. Future proof. I am on Sprint, which means T Mobile today, and there is only a single 5G tower in my town of 55,000, and it is adjacent to a freeway. It's most likely repurposed 4G. I'm throwing this link in to give you a comparison of the land area of the U.S. vs Spain (the U.S. is 19 times larger, and larger than China), and given that the population of Spain is approximately 47 million, and the U.S. is 332 million, that's 1/7 the population of the U.S., so overall, Spain has a higher population density by a factor of 2.5. https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/spain Spain is 1.2 times the size of California, and also with about 1.2 times the population of California, with half the GDP.
That single tower is not 'repurposed'. It has been upgraded with 5G capacity. Yes, definitely NSA but not repurposed. It it still performing as a 4G tower but can now handle 5G because of the added modules.
I've seen videos of speed tests from here in Spain that see download 5G speeds 10 times the speed of 4G while standing in the same spot and yes, very probably coming from the same 'repurposed' tower!
Going off and mentioning size, GDP etc is not relevant. What is relevant is how countries plan and implement their roll outs. The US is behind China and not only with infrastructure but also with the services which run over it. That's why Trump has destroyed international relations because he can't allow China to take a technological lead 'on his watch' as he says. And not only him. Various high ranking officials have gone on record as saying that this cannot be allowed to happen. So what you are seeing is the US having to roll out 5G using equipment that most consider to be inferior to that of Huawei. Just accept that.
Here in Spain, Vodafone has a head start because it switched on its 5G network a year ago.
Also, in Spain (and some other countries), we have a central government map detailing every single cell tower in the country, who has equipment on it, what bands it covers and the energy ratings.
The only equipment on the tower that services my address is from Vodafone and Orange (4G only at present) but because of the setup here, Movistar has access to that equipment (along with the virtual carriers).
If we compare the move from 3G to 4G with the move from 4G to 5G, things are moving at light speed.
We'll see how long it takes for it to reach me but my next phone will definitely have 5G for street use. At home I'll have fibre.
Your continued support of Communist China is noted, .....
Your paranoia is noted
I find it humorous that you China haters almost always say "Communist China" but never say "Communist Vietnam". Did you dig up Joseph McCarthy?
LOL.
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Because I call bull to the Trumper's false accusations I'm "least educated"? Really? Ok, if you say so...
But thanks for clarifying that your ongoing "Communism" rant has no substance. You just hate China.
And thanks too for clarifying that it is the U.S. who is the aggressor against China.
You probably don't have enough knowledge of history to understand that Mainland China has the same aspirations that Japan did in the 1930's, only on a global scale. Fortunately, the U.S. was able to respond in a short time to that and roll it back in 4 years.
This time around, the conflict will be decided in hours, days, and months, and with a heck of a lot of collateral damage. People like yourself that are blind to China's ambitions will certainly be "shocked" when China decides its time to release its military on the world.
No one could imagine...
That's only "true" to the fools who believe the ConMan.
I'll wait for some evidence of his claims.
But even he stopped claiming that China has or is doing anything nefarious. Instead its now: "I think they're bad -- so the MIGHT do something SOMEDAY!".
Funny, Russia is doing something nefarious today. It's well documented. But, somehow he got the Trumpers all in a dither over China.
You've anchored yourself to Trump so much that you can't see the forest for the tress. That's fucked up, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You will be able to look clearly at the world when, and if, there is a new administration on January 20, 2021. It would be best if you removed your rose colored glasses on China. The CCP/PRC/Xi Jinping are up to no good.
In truth, I am no more pro-China than I am pro-any-other country. But I do respect and admire their accomplishments. Please do not mistake my rebuttal of the attacks against that nation as being "for" them. I am simply rebutting mostly political nonsense.
No, a new administration won't change my opinion because I try to base my opinions on facts and evidence from reputable sources.
And, that's the problem here: Trump has been making these "national security" claims throughout the world. But, he is the one saying it, not our intelligence services. And, when he has been pressed to back his claims with evidence he has consistently failed.
So, even if he was not a known liar and conman i would be suspicious of those claims. But, with a consistent and strong history of lies and cons plus a track record of smearing his opponents, there is not a reason in the world to believe him on this -- again, particularly because he has failed to provide a shred of evidence.
To me, it just sounds like just another Trump con.
------------------
Does China pose a threat to the U.S.?
Yes, it is on track to replace us as the world's number one economy and, by some measures, it already has. And, what makes it harder to bear is that they beat us at our own game: capitalism via private enterprise.
My belief is that attacking them, smearing them and so on will, at best, only slow them down. And, in the end will backfire on us as we force them to disconnect from us in ways that will harm us. Instead of attacking China we should be trying to strengthen the U.S. and restore it to some modern version of its former industrial might. But we won't get there by tearing China down. That's a fool's errand.
You must also "respect" their human rights violations. Fortunately, a new administration isn't' going to roll over on the human rights violations, which really pisses China off.
All actual evidence shows that human rights abuses are no worse there than they are here or in many other countries.
.... If you think the U.S. is a paragon of virtue, freedom and human rights, you simply haven't been paying attention.
Trump is a master at demonizing his opponents to make them look even worse than he is. And, he put forth some of his best efforts with China. Are there human rights abuses there? Of Course! But have they been blown completely out of proportion -- particularly in relation to our own problems and those of other countries? Of course!
"When I was governor of Hong Kong, one of my noisiest critics was Sir Percy Cradock, a former British ambassador to China. Cradock always argued that China would never break its solemn promises, memorialised in a treaty lodged at the UN, to guarantee Hong Kong’s high degree of autonomy and way of life for 50 years after the return of the city from British to Chinese sovereignty in 1997.
Cradock once memorably said that although China’s leaders may be “thuggish dictators”, they were “men of their word” and could be “trusted to do what they promise”. Nowadays, we have overwhelming evidence of the truth of the first half of that observation.
Chinese President Xi Jinping’s dictatorship is certainly thuggish. Consider its policies in Xinjiang. Many international lawyers argue that the incarceration of over one million Muslim Uighurs, forced sterilisation and abortion, and slave labour meet the UN definition of genocide. This wicked repression goes beyond thuggery.
A recent Australian Strategic Policy Institute study based on satellite images indicates that China has built 380 internment camps in Xinjiang, including 14 still under construction. Having initially denied that these camps even existed, some Chinese officials now claim that most people detained in them have already been returned to their own communities. Clearly, this is far from the truth."
But keep on pimping China...
Looking at both sides of the picture isn't pimping. It's reality.
... And that is particularly true when that one side you look at is based on propaganda, speculation and false assumptions -- in other words "smear campaigns".
For example:
I could make a case that "In the U.S innocent black people are being gunned down daily in a planned and systemic genocide."
.... While that has just enough of a grain of truth in it to call it "factual", it would still be a lie. Just like your "factual" statements about China.
That's how most propaganda works. It takes a grain of truth, an isolated fact, and blows it all out of proportion and generalizes it across the board to generate fear, hate and outrage.
You really are ignorant, bur more so, proud of it.
All of these stories about the Xin Jiang province and prisons with likely more than a million muslim prisoners, are multiple sourced from reporters and technical means (satellite imagery) from around the world. These are "facts". These prisons are also showing up in Tibet as Tibetans are moved off of their ancestral lands.
I am always suspicious when a hate monger stirs up fear and hate -- and then a smear campaign starts popping up stories.
What about the hundreds of for-profit prisons here? China could call them "concentration camps" for black people just as easily. Would that make it true?
"Since the beginning of 2020, China has transferred over 500,000 Tibetan farmers and herders into “military-style” vocational training camps, says a US think tank.
A report by the Jamestown Foundation claims that there are ‘significant’ similarities between the labour camps in Tibet and the system of “coercive vocational training and labour transfer” in Xinjiang."
"The report claims that a militarised training process in these camps involves thought transformation, patriotic and legal education and Chinese language teaching.
“While some Tibetans may voluntarily participate in some or all aspects of the scheme, and while their incomes may indeed increase as a result, the systemic presence of clear indicators of coercion and indoctrination, coupled with a profound and potentially permanent change in modes of livelihood, is highly problematic,” says the report."
Not like a "private" U.S. Prison.
Yeh, I get the propaganda. Anti-China propaganda has been on a conveyor belt since Trump took office. The accusations just keep spewing out. No facts. Just accusations. I'll wait for some verified reports from trustworthy sources.
Meanwhile there is far worse going on in other places, including the U.S. So, it makes me wonder what their agenda is.
Comments
You are literally the least educated person here on China, so calling me a "hater" doesn't actually mean anything, and for the record, Vietnam is aligned with the U.S. because of China's clashing with Vietnamese forces, and acquiring by force, the islands and shoals in the South China Seas that are recognized by the UN as Vietnamese. Then again, China clashes with every country that borders the South China Seas.
More to the point, there is a significance difference in the threat of Vietnam to the West, about zero, vs China, which is the prime threat to the current law based rules of order for the world. You and Avon b7 are blind to the threat the China poses to the free world, but if you live another decade or so, you'll actually get to see China invade Taiwan, which doesn't actually belong to Mainland China, and the conflict that will come out of that with the U.S. and our allies in the Indo-Pacific.
https://chinapower.csis.org/conventional-missiles/
"In the US and Russian militaries, land-based conventional missiles have played a minimal role thanks to the limitations put in place by the INF Treaty. However, this may be changing. The US withdrew from the INF Treaty in August 2019 in response to Russia’s fielding of the SSC-8 (9M729) ground-launched intermediate-range cruise missile, which was not compliant with the treaty. The US withdrawal was also motivated by concerns that the treaty left US missile capabilities hamstrung as China rapidly built up its arsenal.
After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, the US carried out two tests, in August and December 2019 respectively, of ground-launched missiles that would have been previously prohibited by the treaty. Additionally, a day after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his desire for the US to place ground-launched intermediate-range missiles in Asia. So far, however, allies in the region like Australia and South Korea have stated that they have no plans to host any US land-based missiles.
While the US has not yet deployed land-based missiles to the Indo-Pacific, Chinese officials have already voiced their opposition to the US doing so. Fu Cong, director of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Department of Arms Control, warned that “China will not stand idly by and will be forced to take countermeasures should the US deploy intermediate-range ground-based missiles in this part of the world.” It remains to be seen whether the US will field new land-based capabilities in the Indo-Pacific, but if Washington does so, it could mark a significant development in the US’ military presence in the region."
Ballistic missiles are offensive weapons. What do you think the China wants to do with those?
Nobody cares, and frankly, China is the cause of Huawei's downfall, not the U.S., due to the close connection with the PRC and the CCP, which you always deny. Don't worry though, China will ensure plenty of growth for Huawei in 3rd world countries via the BRI.
You probably don't have enough knowledge of history to understand that Mainland China has the same aspirations that Japan did in the 1930's, only on a global scale. Fortunately, the U.S. was able to respond in a short time to that and roll it back in 4 years.
This time around, the conflict will be decided in hours, days, and months, and with a heck of a lot of collateral damage. People like yourself that are blind to China's ambitions will certainly be "shocked" when China decides its time to release its military on the world.
No one could imagine...
And, that's the problem here: Trump has been making these "national security" claims throughout the world. But, he is the one saying it, not our intelligence services. And, when he has been pressed to back his claims with evidence he has consistently failed.
My belief is that attacking them, smearing them and so on will, at best, only slow them down. And, in the end will backfire on us as we force them to disconnect from us in ways that will harm us. Instead of attacking China we should be trying to strengthen the U.S. and restore it to some modern version of its former industrial might. But we won't get there by tearing China down. That's a fool's errand.
Trump is a master at demonizing his opponents to make them look even worse than he is. And, he put forth some of his best efforts with China. Are there human rights abuses there? Of Course! But have they been blown completely out of proportion -- particularly in relation to our own problems and those of other countries? Of course!
Certainly "worse than" here;
"When I was governor of Hong Kong, one of my noisiest critics was Sir Percy Cradock, a former British ambassador to China. Cradock always argued that China would never break its solemn promises, memorialised in a treaty lodged at the UN, to guarantee Hong Kong’s high degree of autonomy and way of life for 50 years after the return of the city from British to Chinese sovereignty in 1997.
Cradock once memorably said that although China’s leaders may be “thuggish dictators”, they were “men of their word” and could be “trusted to do what they promise”. Nowadays, we have overwhelming evidence of the truth of the first half of that observation.
Chinese President Xi Jinping’s dictatorship is certainly thuggish. Consider its policies in Xinjiang. Many international lawyers argue that the incarceration of over one million Muslim Uighurs, forced sterilisation and abortion, and slave labour meet the UN definition of genocide. This wicked repression goes beyond thuggery.
A recent Australian Strategic Policy Institute study based on satellite images indicates that China has built 380 internment camps in Xinjiang, including 14 still under construction. Having initially denied that these camps even existed, some Chinese officials now claim that most people detained in them have already been returned to their own communities. Clearly, this is far from the truth."
But keep on pimping China...
All of these stories about the Xin Jiang province and prisons with likely more than a million muslim prisoners, are multiple sourced from reporters and technical means (satellite imagery) from around the world. These are "facts". These prisons are also showing up in Tibet as Tibetans are moved off of their ancestral lands.
Ignore a particular person here. There's an agenda at work that requires he sow mistrust of the US using half-truths if needed, dispersing negatives regarding China with false equivalencies as they see fit, LOL-ing any unfriendly facts that he can't dispute, and often referring to your opinions as propaganda without offering anything that factually disputes what you say.
He says he relies on "trusted sources" without naming any of them, and is prone to peddling his own propaganda talking points that oddly enough are the same ones promoted by Chinese authorities in dealing with other types of government.
He states odd things as facts but rarely with sources or links confirming them, and when challenged the fallback is often "I prefer facts and truth" without anything further.
When presented with an opinion that cannot be argued against with logic he shifts to fallacies: Change the discussion to something more favorable, make-believe he's confused about what is being challenged, resorts to name-calling, and/or questioning your character instead of the message (aka killing the messenger).
You can't argue with a dishonest debater. Don't feel you owe anyone a reply. Just understand who the person is. You put in the time-consuming work making a cogent argument and then a person comes back with some trite response, typically three lines or less., that requires zero research, little thought, and 30 seconds at the keyboard. They aren't really interested in learning or exploring and will ignore most of what you say, not bothering with following any links for a better understanding of where your opinion is coming from.
it requires way too much effort to engage with someone with no interest in anything that might put the veracity of their agenda in question, or better yet inspecting their own beliefs. Continue posting what you post, you do admirable research, and if that person complains let them do so alone. That particular person seems to derive far too much pleasure from being contrary, rude, and dismissive, and no sense in giving the agenda they drive more air to breathe.
I don't know if you saw this,
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-google-china-huawei-tech-exclusive-idUSKBN26L1OH
"BEIJING/SINGAPORE/SHENZHEN, China (Reuters) - China is preparing to launch an antitrust probe into Alphabet Inc's GOOGL.O Google, looking into allegations it has leveraged the dominance of its Android mobile operating system to stifle competition, two people familiar with the matter said."
"The case was proposed by telecommunications equipment giant Huawei Technologies Co Ltd last year and has been submitted by the country’s top market regulator to the State Council’s antitrust committee for review, they added."
That's one humongous pile of steaming irony....
No, don't worry Gatorguy we won't ignore you, we love you. Even if you are misinformed.
"Since the beginning of 2020, China has transferred over 500,000 Tibetan farmers and herders into “military-style” vocational training camps, says a US think tank.
A report by the Jamestown Foundation claims that there are ‘significant’ similarities between the labour camps in Tibet and the system of “coercive vocational training and labour transfer” in Xinjiang."
"The report claims that a militarised training process in these camps involves thought transformation, patriotic and legal education and Chinese language teaching.
“While some Tibetans may voluntarily participate in some or all aspects of the scheme, and while their incomes may indeed increase as a result, the systemic presence of clear indicators of coercion and indoctrination, coupled with a profound and potentially permanent change in modes of livelihood, is highly problematic,” says the report."
Not like a "private" U.S. Prison.
Yeh, I get the propaganda. Anti-China propaganda has been on a conveyor belt since Trump took office. The accusations just keep spewing out. No facts. Just accusations.
I'll wait for some verified reports from trustworthy sources.
Meanwhile there is far worse going on in other places, including the U.S. So, it makes me wonder what their agenda is.