Amazon says users don't own content bought on Prime Video

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 65

    ITGUYINSD said:

    Not quite the same.  I have stacks of DVD's and Blu-Ray's that have been on my shelves for 10 years.  They aren't going anywhere and will always be available to play.
    A movie purchased at Apple that the studio has decided it did not want to sell through Apple anymore would be gone the next time I wanted to play it.  POOF!  Sure, download it.  Right.  No one does that except maybe to an iPad or iPhone then what good is it?  Get a new phone or iPad and the download is gone.
    Actually, the concept is the same. You damage, lose, or are robbed of your media, it’s gone and would have to re-purchase unless you backed it up (made copies). The difference here is, the company selling the licenses might not make the content available indefinitely. That’s why if you value the content, you should back it up... just as you would have your disks. It is still your responsibility.
    edited October 2020
  • Reply 22 of 65
    Sounds ridiculous. Will the gas station come take their gas back? I'm half way into a ham and the butcher wants it back? I'm on the toilet and my paper is gone? What next
    LOL! Not even close to the same thing... but sure. 
    randominternetperson
  • Reply 23 of 65
    But I get frustrated with steaming services that do not provide a download option - for purchased content, Content which I cannot download may disappear for a myriad of reasons.
    That’s the nature of “streaming services”. You subscribe to a right to play all the content. You aren’t given options to buy a license for specific content.
    Curious which streaming service you use for which you’ve actually purchased licensing of content.
    edited October 2020
  • Reply 24 of 65
    I think Amazon 8s full of bull. It clearly says rent the movie or buy it when you go to purchase a video. If you don't own it as they say then you are renting it. They believe that they have the right to remove anything that they want from videos that you yourself have already purchased and this is wrong. If I purchase something off their site then they need to leave it the hell alone because it is mine, I paid to BUY it not rent it so as far as I am concerned it is mine so hands off Amazon, otherwise they owe me an extreme amount of money. If I buy something from the store, nobody come to my home and tells me that I can't have it anymore. I bought it with my money so don't tell me what I can do with it unless you want to give me all my money back. LEAVE OUR PURCHASES ALONE AMAZON AND CHANGE YOUR POLICIES BECAUSE YOU ARE IN THE WRONG AND DON'T TELL ANYONE THAT THEY CAN'T DOWNLOAD IT OFF YOUR SYSTEM ONTO A SEPARATE DRIVE TO PLAY OUTSIDE OF YOUR SITE. THEY BUY IT THEN THEY HAVE THE RIGHT.
  • Reply 25 of 65
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,615member
    Nat2256 said:
    I think Amazon 8s full of bull. It clearly says rent the movie or buy it when you go to purchase a video. If you don't own it as they say then you are renting it. They believe that they have the right to remove anything that they want from videos that you yourself have already purchased and this is wrong. If I purchase something off their site then they need to leave it the hell alone because it is mine, I paid to BUY it not rent it so as far as I am concerned it is mine so hands off Amazon, otherwise they owe me an extreme amount of money. If I buy something from the store, nobody come to my home and tells me that I can't have it anymore. I bought it with my money so don't tell me what I can do with it unless you want to give me all my money back. LEAVE OUR PURCHASES ALONE AMAZON AND CHANGE YOUR POLICIES BECAUSE YOU ARE IN THE WRONG AND DON'T TELL ANYONE THAT THEY CAN'T DOWNLOAD IT OFF YOUR SYSTEM ONTO A SEPARATE DRIVE TO PLAY OUTSIDE OF YOUR SITE. THEY BUY IT THEN THEY HAVE THE RIGHT.
    I agree Amazon is in the wrong, but Apple uses the same "Buy" terminology on its movie purchase pages. Does any movie website use the right words?

    This is an issue that I actually thing Congress should be getting upset about. I.e., companies are saying "BUY" but they don't actually mean it.

    "Buy is a lie."
    Catchy protest slogan there.
    randominternetperson
  • Reply 26 of 65
    I've been preaching that buying things digitally is bad. Buying physical is usually cheaper even. Do you know how may amazing movies, Tv shows, even games are just sitting on the shelves of thrift stores for like $2.
  • Reply 27 of 65
    It's really interesting that this argument keeps coming up. The first time I heard about this argument was when software companies started going to online licenses for downloads in the very early 2000s. It's even been brought up in courts multiple times. 

    Valve, Steam, had a huge amount of users against the whole 'digital licensing' back when they went to selling online games.  There is always a new article about it every year or two too. 

    Guess what, anything you purchase without an actual physical medium is licensed. If you have it downloaded and on a physical medium, doesn't even mean you will be able to run it of the company you are licensing from hours out of business.

    Most people assume places, for example,  stream,  Playstation, etc., well always be around. Those of us that were buying software before the mid 2000s know very much that software companies go out of business,  no matter how big they are.  That is why there was such a huge resilience to go to the whole digital media. 

    Luckily though there are people out the actually backing up data from places like these. Some have even gotten the actual clients too. These people will end up being the ones to save us if these companies ever do go out of business.  Someone will need to edit the client's code to allow to run the software without hitting the servers, but luckily there is a nice size of open source codes and library's out there. 

    I personally hate that any pc games I buy now are all digital codes, even when buying collectors editions and stuff now. I was hugely against it, but we have no choice any more.  Very disappointing. 
  • Reply 28 of 65
    lkrupp said:
    We went through this back in Napster days. People tried to argue they “owned” the music they “bought” on record, tape, or CD. Therefore they could “share” their “property” as they saw fit. That kind of logic lead to DRM and the DCMA. Read the fine print will you. 

    That being said it’s quite shitty to pay for a so-called permanent on-demand license only to have the owner of the content yank it. Thankfully this happens very rarely.
    They never said it was permanent...that's their whole argument. You're saying "so-called permanent license" but that doesn't make it so.
  • Reply 29 of 65
    Nat2256 said:
    I think Amazon 8s full of bull. It clearly says rent the movie or buy it when you go to purchase a video. If you don't own it as they say then you are renting it. They believe that they have the right to remove anything that they want from videos that you yourself have already purchased and this is wrong. If I purchase something off their site then they need to leave it the hell alone because it is mine, I paid to BUY it not rent it so as far as I am concerned it is mine so hands off Amazon, otherwise they owe me an extreme amount of money. If I buy something from the store, nobody come to my home and tells me that I can't have it anymore. I bought it with my money so don't tell me what I can do with it unless you want to give me all my money back. LEAVE OUR PURCHASES ALONE AMAZON AND CHANGE YOUR POLICIES BECAUSE YOU ARE IN THE WRONG AND DON'T TELL ANYONE THAT THEY CAN'T DOWNLOAD IT OFF YOUR SYSTEM ONTO A SEPARATE DRIVE TO PLAY OUTSIDE OF YOUR SITE. THEY BUY IT THEN THEY HAVE THE RIGHT.
    I agree Amazon is in the wrong, but Apple uses the same "Buy" terminology on its movie purchase pages. Does any movie website use the right words?

    This is an issue that I actually thing Congress should be getting upset about. I.e., companies are saying "BUY" but they don't actually mean it.

    "Buy is a lie."
    Catchy protest slogan there.
    But you are buying something...you're buying the license to the film and conditions apply...conditions you agree to that state in advance that you may have access to the media cut off at some time in the future. If I "buy" a ticket to a movie, I can't just keep going back and watching it as many times as I want. I have "bought" a limited amount of access to a service. You're applying a very limited definition to the word "buy". You can "buy" lots of things that you don't get to keep forever. 
    pscooter63
  • Reply 30 of 65
    rchgrchg Posts: 5member
    larryjw said:
    rchg said:
    mknelson said:
    There isn't anything unusual here - that's the same licensing terms as on CDs, DVDs, Computer Games, pretty much every digital media…

    *still handy to remind people - there will be newbs here.
    Except that, say, the music label does not enter your home and take the CD away just because the artist changed the label/publisher.

    Its quite different from CDs, DVDs, books. When you buy one of these you own the fixed medium on which the content is written. You can sell it, give it away, destroy it, but you do OWN the medium. 

    That is far different from today's "ownership" -- the content is fixed temporarily and ephemeral. You make copies, for example, when your systems are backed-up but mostly it is very little different from a limited rental. 
    That's exactly my point, actually. Yes, you do not "own" the movie or the music on the CD/DVD, you merely receive a perpetual license to reproduce the content for your own private purposes. But as you rightly mentioned, you own the media and unless it is worn out, destroyed or lost, you can still enjoy the content even if the original label sold the copyrights to another company or even went out of business. Now such possibility is effectively lost for consumers. 

    By the way, when all the digital media emerged, one of the major pitch points was that "your CD/DVD can be lost, can get corrupt, but the download media is securely kept and always available for you!". Yeah, always my ass.
  • Reply 31 of 65
    citpekscitpeks Posts: 247member
    larryjw said:
    rchg said:
    mknelson said:
    There isn't anything unusual here - that's the same licensing terms as on CDs, DVDs, Computer Games, pretty much every digital media…

    *still handy to remind people - there will be newbs here.
    Except that, say, the music label does not enter your home and take the CD away just because the artist changed the label/publisher.

    Its quite different from CDs, DVDs, books. When you buy one of these you own the fixed medium on which the content is written. You can sell it, give it away, destroy it, but you do OWN the medium. 

    That is far different from today's "ownership" -- the content is fixed temporarily and ephemeral. You make copies, for example, when your systems are backed-up but mostly it is very little different from a limited rental. 

    Quite right.  CDs, DVDs, and books are covered by the First-sale Doctrine, which allow you, as the owner, to do as you please with the material, as long as the copyright holder's rights are not violated.  Note that a key trait of the law is that ownership is established.

    It is a narrow law, and copyright owners have tried to convince the courts to erode it, and they have been successful in some respects, but physical media offers a big advantage.
    shamino
  • Reply 32 of 65
    Nat2256 said:
    I think Amazon 8s full of bull. It clearly says rent the movie or buy it when you go to purchase a video. If you don't own it as they say then you are renting it. They believe that they have the right to remove anything that they want from videos that you yourself have already purchased and this is wrong. If I purchase something off their site then they need to leave it the hell alone because it is mine, I paid to BUY it not rent it so as far as I am concerned it is mine so hands off Amazon, otherwise they owe me an extreme amount of money. If I buy something from the store, nobody come to my home and tells me that I can't have it anymore. I bought it with my money so don't tell me what I can do with it unless you want to give me all my money back. LEAVE OUR PURCHASES ALONE AMAZON AND CHANGE YOUR POLICIES BECAUSE YOU ARE IN THE WRONG AND DON'T TELL ANYONE THAT THEY CAN'T DOWNLOAD IT OFF YOUR SYSTEM ONTO A SEPARATE DRIVE TO PLAY OUTSIDE OF YOUR SITE. THEY BUY IT THEN THEY HAVE THE RIGHT.
    You should have the complete right to pirate anything you purchased that says the word "buy". That content is yours, you should be able to watch it 5 years from now whether or not they want to keep it on their server. All theyre doing is making excuses BECAUSE they have to remove things to put up new stuff. As long as you have proof that you purchased that show or movie, you would've gotten an email I'm sure with every purchase, you should have the right. Fight it, download the stuff you have proof you've paid for
    edited October 2020
  • Reply 33 of 65
    Seems to me well first of all that this is complete crap and that this is a giant gray area. Like downloading emulated games if I have a physical copy I can download an emulated game all I want because I have bought and paid for that game. Seems to me like this is the same idea if I pay for something on a digital streaming site should be able to download the content freely as long as I have proof that I have purchased that content in the first place. I don't think the law has been written to actually provide the correct answer for this yet like I said a gray area.
     Not legally, if you download a rom no matter if you own a physical copy or even a download version on a different system it is illegal, because you aren't buying the rights to the game, you are buying the right to a disc containing the game or the right to download a copy from a specific provider, the argument can be made that they should always support said downloads but if they give you notice to download it and that subsequent downloads will not be accessible that's on you at that point
  • Reply 34 of 65
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Didn't Apple do the same with Audio Books?
    When Apple Music came out the audio books people had purchased went POOF!   They just evaporated into thin air.

    And, the same with the old digital picture caches -- when they closed up shop your pictures were gone.   Forever.   I lost a bunch when Kodak stopped storing them.

    And, the same rules apply with iCloud:   what happens to all your pictures and data (like health data) when you switch from Apple products to Samsung or Huawei?   Poof!  They're gone.

    Storing valuable information on someone's server is like storing your money in your girl friend's apartment.   Yeh, it's yours and you own it -- and you trust her.  But that only lasts as long as she does.

    Free Market capitalism ultimately favors the free market capitalist.  The customer is a means to the end.
  • Reply 35 of 65
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,129member
    Sounds ridiculous. Will the gas station come take their gas back? I'm half way into a ham and the butcher wants it back? I'm on the toilet and my paper is gone? What next
    Your comment is what sounds ridiculous. Gas is a tangible good, and nothing like a song. 
  • Reply 36 of 65
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,129member
    ITGUYINSD said:
    mknelson said:
    There isn't anything unusual here - that's the same licensing terms as on CDs, DVDs, Computer Games, pretty much every digital media…

    *still handy to remind people - there will be newbs here.
    Not quite the same.  I have stacks of DVD's and Blu-Ray's that have been on my shelves for 10 years.  They aren't going anywhere and will always be available to play.
    A movie purchased at Apple that the studio has decided it did not want to sell through Apple anymore would be gone the next time I wanted to play it.  POOF!  Sure, download it.  Right.  No one does that except maybe to an iPad or iPhone then what good is it?  Get a new phone or iPad and the download is gone.


    It’s exactly the same. You own the DVD, not the movie itself.  
    shamino
  • Reply 37 of 65
    This is why if (in rare instances) I like a movie or tv series enough, I’ll buy the physical media. Digital purchases which cannot be downloaded and saved to one’s own storage are worthless.
    macgui
  • Reply 38 of 65
    Think i’ll stick to using torrents. Never had any problems with movies or music downloaded that way. 

    All unencoded and fully under my ownership. Stream perfectly on Plex. 

    Happy to pay Amazon for my torrent if they want to offer them. But I want the same product. 
  • Reply 39 of 65
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,074member
    ITGUYINSD said:
    mknelson said:
    There isn't anything unusual here - that's the same licensing terms as on CDs, DVDs, Computer Games, pretty much every digital media…

    *still handy to remind people - there will be newbs here.
    Not quite the same.  I have stacks of DVD's and Blu-Ray's that have been on my shelves for 10 years.  They aren't going anywhere and will always be available to play.
    A movie purchased at Apple that the studio has decided it did not want to sell through Apple anymore would be gone the next time I wanted to play it.  POOF!  Sure, download it.  Right.  No one does that except maybe to an iPad or iPhone then what good is it?  Get a new phone or iPad and the download is gone.


    I don't think you quite know what you're talking about. It doesn't matter what iDevice or Mac or PC you use to buy a movie from Apple, the movie ends up in your iTunes account if you're on the cloud. It is not downloaded into the device you use to buy the movie. You are only streaming the movie from your iTunes cloud account, into your iDevice. Or you might be able to download a lower resolution version into your iDevice from your iTunes account so to watch it offline, to save space. People do this to watch their purchased movies when they travel on airplanes, with no internet connection.

    If not on the cloud, all you need to do is to plug the iDevice with the downloaded movie, into a Mac or PC, open iTunes, log in and transfer the movie to the iTunes in the Mac or PC. So long as it's the same account. Plus if you back up an iDevice with a purchased movie, into the cloud or onto iTunes on a  Mac or PC, when you use that back up to restore your new iDevice, your downloaded movie will be on the new iDevice. Even if the movie is no longer available to purchase. 

    And the digital copy of a purchased movie in your iTunes account, can be backed up to an external drive (even a thumb drive or SD card) or on to a stack of recordable DVD disc that aren't going anywhere, using a Mac or PC that is logged in to the account. Thus one can have a back up of their purchased movies in case the studio stopped providing the movie on iTunes. Apple allows for this. It's in the iTunes menu. When one buy a movie with iTunes, one is basically getting a digital download copy of the DVD or BluRay disc in their account. And there are software available (might not be completely legal) that will play your backed up iTunes movies or convert them so they can be played, even if iTunes or Apple, Inc. goes .... POOF!. 

     People that have already downloaded Fortnite in their iTunes account, can still install the version they downloaded it, onto an iDevice, even though Fortnite is now ..... POOF! ..... from the Apple App Store. Epic can stop this if they want. But so far, they are allowing Apple to let users that have already downloaded the old version of Fortnite into their iTunes account, to re-install it on their iDevice. Even if it's a newly purchased iDevice.  

    Prime works almost the same way with Prime Video purchases. But there are more limitations and hoops to jump through to make a back-up copy of your purchased Prime movies and have it play, without using the Prime app. Unlike with Apple, Amazon is of no help when it comes to backing up purchased Prime movies. So with Amazon Prime Video purchases, they are more like lifetime streaming rentals, than the movies purchased with Apple iTunes. But the EULA clearly states that it's not your lifetime that counts. 

    The biggest drawback with not backing up ones movie purchases in iTunes and even with Prime, is not that the studio might completely stop offering the movie you purchased but that if they replaced the movie with a newly re-mastered version. Then any movie that is in your account, might automatically be converted (upgraded) to the new remastered version if you have to re-download the movie, as it might be the only version available, even if you wanted to keep what might have been the original theatrical release because you don't like the changes made in the re-mastered version.

    It's like if you had originally purchased the "Star Wars" where Han clearly shot first, using your iTunes account in your Mac and never made a back up. Then when your Mac crashes taking your iTunes with it, your restored iTunes might now have the re-mastered version where Greedo shot first because LucasFilms no longer has the original theatrical version available. If you had made a back up, you would still have your original theatrical release of "Star Wars" and it will still play in iTunes, even though it's no longer available in the iTunes Store.  
      
    edited October 2020
  • Reply 40 of 65
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,776member
    I'd add this to the mix.  Years ago FCPro shipped with a ton of 'free music' that had been licensed by Apple for use back when FCPro came in a 2-ton box and many DVDs.  Years later, all the videos I created for non-profit and uploaded to YouTube with any of the music supplied by Apple receive takedown notices from YouTube after they are flagged by what I can only presume are the folks that Apple obtained this 'free to use' music from.
    edited October 2020
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