I think there is a case for anticompetitive behavior, which does not require a monopoly. All of these comments about "monopoly" address Epic's case (which I agree is rather laughable). The Cydia case rests on anticompetitive behavior, not a monopoly.
Apple does not OWN the platform, since they sell it to me and do not rent it. None of these EULAs have been tested in court really. Note that Apple continues to tell me what I can do with something I have purchased. No one would accept this logic in a car; here's the only parts, oil, and gas you are permitted to use. Or how about a lightbulb; you can only use it with the light fixtures that I make, or vice-versa.
How about selling a refrigerator and then saying that it is monitored and will shut down if you buy certain foods that aren't on the approved list?
I'm an Apple user, and even an admin for a company that predominantly uses Apple. I'm very submerged in their ecosystem, but that doesn't mean I have to defend all of their behaviors. This all harkens back to a few years ago when everyone who is defending Apple right now was up in arms because Sony started going after hackers who modded their PS systems to run linux.
Also, everyone can remember a few years ago when it wasn't a government regulation that once you had paid off a cell phone, that the original carrier, at their own option, could keep it locked to the network. Now, once you own it, you own it and a carrier can't tell you that you have to use their service. You can't call Verizon, AT&T, or T-Mobile a monopoly, but they CAN engage in anti-competitive behavior that freezes out smaller businesses in the same space.
The simple basis is this: All of these devices are computing platforms and laws have to be universal for computing platforms. Either platforms need to remain open so that you have a right to do with a hardware platform as you please, or we have to agree that all computing platforms can be locked down and companies are allowed to dictate how their product is used after you purchase it.
If this had a dozen or so links to long articles I'd suspect this was my good mate GatorGuy in disguise
I’m continually amazed at how “jailbreaking” is fine, tolerated, even considered cool by Apple customers who would otherwise brag to “other platform customers” how much more secure IOS is.
jailbreaking is the exploitation of a bug in order to install software that potentially circumvents everything Apple provides to secure your personal data.
It’s interesting that it was called the original App Store in the article when Apple provided a collection of apps from third parties using web apps. The App Store with natively run apps based on the platform Apple developed for first party apps was announce in October of 2007 and shipped with the next full update of the OS. Also remember there were already apps on iPod. The biggest issue for Apple was security and Cydia showed them that they were right. iPod was not connected to the Internet making it easier to manage security. This was the reason Steve Jobs gave for pushing web apps. They had little access to the platform and could be sandboxes in the browser, making them inherently safer.
So no, Cydia was not the first App Store that title goes to the iTunes store with iPod games, then the webapp store on iPhone. Cydia, only took what Apple had already done on iPod to and what they announce they were working on to deduct what they would do on iPhone. Ironically, had Jobs maintained Apple protocol and not shown his hand early, this company would not have existed.
I remember well the heyday of Cydia. A lot of close friends with a shit eating grin on their face over some $1.99 apps they had stolen.
Cydia was a legitimate app store in the same sense as the Rolex sales representative you used to find at every street corner.
Stealing apps wasn't really what Cydia and Jailbreaking was about. I jailbroke my phones for years and so did close friends for the tweaks and added functionality not stolen apps. CCcontrols before control center existed.CCtweak for the long press function in control center before there was 3d touch and now haptic touch. Barrel for a cool animated unlock screen. NoSlowanimations for a super fast open and close of apps and the phone by being able to control the animation speed.
I had no problem paying the developers that gave their free time to make these things possible.. I never trusted some off shoot store that sold pirated apps.Considering the price of apps then and now that is actually a pretty shitty thing to do.
Yes, the PURPOSE as stated by Cydia wasn’t to steal apps. But a very large percentage of apps on Cydia were pirated. Cydia did nothing, or at most, very little to take those apps down, because while pirating apps wasn’t the purpose, it was a major way in which the platform was used. Malware was abundant there as well. Particularly as jailbroken phones lost most of the protections Apple had built in, and so Cydia was the perfect place to insert them into what people often thought were pirated apps.
there was little positive about Cydia, even if a few people did gain some small benefit. Most of those benefits weren’t of great benefit, just minor convenience.
I am fully aware of the cheap asses that used Repos to steal apps.. whatever happened to their device is on them..
Changing the device root password and not installing stolen apps helped keep things safer, of course not 100% but I never knew anyone that had anything malicious happen from installing various tweaks. You could find links to Repos at Cydia to go and get stolen apps.. but the Cydia store wasn't actually selling those pirated apps. As I mentioned I had no issue paying through paypal a small amount for people that worked on these tweaks as they weren't paid.
There are many features that came to IOS directly from JB tweaks.. Picture in picture was a JB feature years prior to ISO 14.. ability to hide any app.. smaller incoming call interface.. and on and on.
I remember well the heyday of Cydia. A lot of close friends with a shit eating grin on their face over some $1.99 apps they had stolen.
Cydia was a legitimate app store in the same sense as the Rolex sales representative you used to find at every street corner.
Stealing apps wasn't really what Cydia and Jailbreaking was about. I jailbroke my phones for years and so did close friends for the tweaks and added functionality not stolen apps. CCcontrols before control center existed.CCtweak for the long press function in control center before there was 3d touch and now haptic touch. Barrel for a cool animated unlock screen. NoSlowanimations for a super fast open and close of apps and the phone by being able to control the animation speed.
I had no problem paying the developers that gave their free time to make these things possible.. I never trusted some off shoot store that sold pirated apps.Considering the price of apps then and now that is actually a pretty shitty thing to do.
Most did use it for just that. People would brag about how they didn’t have to pay for apps. And the tech guy at work would teach them how to do it b
I had a different experience.. and that wasn't whyCydia started out. It was to add features that should have never been msiing. Personally I got turned onto it to be able to use remove the carrier lock so that iPhone could be used with other carriers back when they were exclusive to AT&T. I broke many phones for people for just this reason. They wanted to use an iPhone with a different carrier and that wasn't a thing at the time.
Never used Cydia, but my brief experiment with jailbreaking a couple years ago did find some pretty neat software. I don't have much time for the lawsuit, but I wish there was a practical way for Apple to allow software from alternative app stores.
There is one. Pay $100 a year and you can install apps from any source. No jailbreaking required.
Great! I hope Cydia will be successful. These absurd USA tech conglomerates need to be dealt with. They are blocking any competition and innovation. Apple’s not better than Facebook in that regard.
This claim is like a burglar suing you for changing the combination on your safe after he broke into it last month.
Excellent, you win the internet today!
Except it makes no sense. That comes from a position that no one can touch an operating system except Apple. That comes from the acceptance that you don’t really buy your phone, but get a limited license after paying over $1000 for a Pro phone that gives all control to Apple. That comes from a position that there should not be any competition in the market.
I don’t accept that model. We shouldn’t accept that.
What seems to be ignored here is Apple’s scale. If you are so humongous as a company that there are basically only two real ecosystem players in the world (Google, Apple), you have a problem - no true competition possible.
If that has become the reality you have to go a layer deeper: look at how much competition is allowed within those two ecosystems. Are Apple and Google enabling competition on their ecosystems, or blocking it? Well, it’s the latter. It simply does not stop at whether there is just iOS and Google to choose from, it matters what those two choices bring competition wise. Since both companies are monopolists within those two ecosystems, they need to be dealt with.
Great! I hope Cydia will be successful. These absurd USA tech conglomerates need to be dealt with. They are blocking any competition and innovation. Apple’s not better than Facebook in that regard.
Your parents really need to take your computer away. All that time in the basement is negatively affecting your ability to think.
Great! I hope Cydia will be successful. These absurd USA tech conglomerates need to be dealt with. They are blocking any competition and innovation. Apple’s not better than Facebook in that regard.
Your parents really need to take your computer away. All that time in the basement is negatively affecting your ability to think.
My parents recently died of Corona. Jerk.
They also taught me: “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser”
Never used Cydia, but my brief experiment with jailbreaking a couple years ago did find some pretty neat software. I don't have much time for the lawsuit, but I wish there was a practical way for Apple to allow software from alternative app stores.
There is one. Pay $100 a year and you can install apps from any source. No jailbreaking required.
I don't agree that this is a practical solution for consumers, or that I should have to pay Apple for the right to modify the device that I've already paid for.
It would be insane to force Apple to subvert its own solution. It never made any sense to me why people cannot see that.
There is complete transparency as to what you get when you buy and iPhone, which includes the ecosystem as designed. a VAST majority of people WANT this walled garden. You have to be blind not to see that. I DONT want an iPhone that has holes opened for others.
If one does not like what the ecosystem offers, get an Android. It's that simple.
Apple and other companies would be crucified if their phones were compromised by un-vetted Apps.
Forget it.
Their success proves without doubt what people want. Whatever few tweaks you would gain by opening up the ecosystem, you would potentially lose far more.
Apple is offering a protected solution, in a world where most others want to secretly leverage who you are. Don't ever forget that.
It would be insane to force Apple to subvert its own solution. It never made any sense to me why people cannot see that.
There is complete transparency as to what you get when you buy and iPhone, which includes the ecosystem as designed. a VAST majority of people WANT this walled garden. You have to be blind not to see that. I DONT want an iPhone that has holes opened for others.
If one does not like what the ecosystem offers, get an Android. It's that simple.
Apple and other companies would be crucified if their phones were compromised by un-vetted Apps.
Forget it.
Their success proves without doubt what people want. Whatever few tweaks you would gain by opening up the ecosystem, you would potentially lose far more.
Apple is offering a protected solution, in a world where most others want to secretly leverage who you are. Don't ever forget that.
So when Cydia was around, were you afraid your iPhone was less secure because someone else had a jailbreak phone? Or didn’t it affect you in any way?
It would be insane to force Apple to subvert its own solution. It never made any sense to me why people cannot see that.
There is complete transparency as to what you get when you buy and iPhone, which includes the ecosystem as designed. a VAST majority of people WANT this walled garden. You have to be blind not to see that. I DONT want an iPhone that has holes opened for others.
If one does not like what the ecosystem offers, get an Android. It's that simple.
Apple and other companies would be crucified if their phones were compromised by un-vetted Apps.
Forget it.
Their success proves without doubt what people want. Whatever few tweaks you would gain by opening up the ecosystem, you would potentially lose far more.
Apple is offering a protected solution, in a world where most others want to secretly leverage who you are. Don't ever forget that.
So when Cydia was around, were you afraid your iPhone was less secure because someone else had a jailbreak phone? Or didn’t it affect you in any way?
This. Opening up the phone for other app stores doesn’t mean the phone will be less secure.
Apple could even provide an API for it if they want to control the “how”. In the end this is mostly a signing/certificate distribution matter (the same way you can use the enterprise distribution certificate to distribute apps within one organization without having to involve the App Store); the operating system itself doesn’t “suffer” from anything, nor does the Apple App Store.
People’s argument that “it’s apple’s own platform - they should have all power” is flawed if you look at the size of their company and the lack of any competition nowadays due to their size.
This claim is like a burglar suing you for changing the combination on your safe after he broke into it last month.
Excellent, you win the internet today!
Except it makes no sense. That comes from a position that no one can touch an operating system except Apple. That comes from the acceptance that you don’t really buy your phone, but get a limited license after paying over $1000 for a Pro phone that gives all control to Apple. That comes from a position that there should not be any competition in the market.
I don’t accept that model. We shouldn’t accept that.
What seems to be ignored here is Apple’s scale. If you are so humongous as a company that there are basically only two real ecosystem players in the world (Google, Apple), you have a problem - no true competition possible.
If that has become the reality you have to go a layer deeper: look at how much competition is allowed within those two ecosystems. Are Apple and Google enabling competition on their ecosystems, or blocking it? Well, it’s the latter. It simply does not stop at whether there is just iOS and Google to choose from, it matters what those two choices bring competition wise. Since both companies are monopolists within those two ecosystems, they need to be dealt with.
It’s your choice to not buy the phone. Then you can buy an Android phone, which is increasingly locked down. Or you can buy one of the Linux phones that barely works and aren’t supported. Then you can do anything you want.
It would be insane to force Apple to subvert its own solution. It never made any sense to me why people cannot see that.
There is complete transparency as to what you get when you buy and iPhone, which includes the ecosystem as designed. a VAST majority of people WANT this walled garden. You have to be blind not to see that. I DONT want an iPhone that has holes opened for others.
If one does not like what the ecosystem offers, get an Android. It's that simple.
Apple and other companies would be crucified if their phones were compromised by un-vetted Apps.
Forget it.
Their success proves without doubt what people want. Whatever few tweaks you would gain by opening up the ecosystem, you would potentially lose far more.
Apple is offering a protected solution, in a world where most others want to secretly leverage who you are. Don't ever forget that.
So when Cydia was around, were you afraid your iPhone was less secure because someone else had a jailbreak phone? Or didn’t it affect you in any way?
Sure does. Apple would need to build that on ramp into the OS, and then people start sharing appz, or appz start sniffing contact data data from a user's phone, etc...
Comments
Apple’s not better than Facebook in that regard.
That comes from a position that no one can touch an operating system except Apple. That comes from the acceptance that you don’t really buy your phone, but get a limited license after paying over $1000 for a Pro phone that gives all control to Apple. That comes from a position that there should not be any competition in the market.
I don’t accept that model. We shouldn’t accept that.
What seems to be ignored here is Apple’s scale. If you are so humongous as a company that there are basically only two real ecosystem players in the world (Google, Apple), you have a problem - no true competition possible.
Well, it’s the latter. It simply does not stop at whether there is just iOS and Google to choose from, it matters what those two choices bring competition wise. Since both companies are monopolists within those two ecosystems, they need to be dealt with.
They also taught me: “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser”
There is complete transparency as to what you get when you buy and iPhone, which includes the ecosystem as designed. a VAST majority of people WANT this walled garden. You have to be blind not to see that. I DONT want an iPhone that has holes opened for others.
If one does not like what the ecosystem offers, get an Android. It's that simple.
Apple and other companies would be crucified if their phones were compromised by un-vetted Apps.
Forget it.
Their success proves without doubt what people want. Whatever few tweaks you would gain by opening up the ecosystem, you would potentially lose far more.
Apple is offering a protected solution, in a world where most others want to secretly leverage who you are. Don't ever forget that.
People’s argument that “it’s apple’s own platform - they should have all power” is flawed if you look at the size of their company and the lack of any competition nowadays due to their size.
It’s your choice to not buy the phone. Then you can buy an Android phone, which is increasingly locked down. Or you can buy one of the Linux phones that barely works and aren’t supported. Then you can do anything you want.
And while there may be nothing important enough for you to take the real, and large security risk you take doing that, I'd like the option.