Child spends $16K on iPad game in-app purchases

1235»

Comments

  • Reply 81 of 100
    In-app purchases for "consumables" in games is a scummy business to be in. Everyone involved knows that they are creating and feeding an addiction including Apple. Especially Apple since they can see what they are doing across thousands of apps. Game developers are the pushers and the street corner sellers. Apple is the supplier.
    Apple does not hide in-app purchases but it does not treat them like the problem they are for many people. I have never once seen Apple talking about how it helps addicted gamers break their habit. I do see ads now on my iPhone for Apple's gaming service though.
    rtbinkmuthuk_vanalingamglnfmattinozMacProCheeseFreeze
  • Reply 82 of 100
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    crowley said:
    In app purchases are the worst thing that ever happened to iOS.
    No, subscriptions are.
  • Reply 83 of 100
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    razorpit said:
    crowley said:
    In app purchases are the worst thing that ever happened to iOS.
    No, subscriptions are.
    No one has ever struggled to pay their mortgage because of an inadvertent subscription.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 84 of 100
    I think people who are sufficiently technically sophisticated to be reading Appleinsider really do underestimate how hard it is to set up digital devices for those who are not so sophisticated. I have to deal with this being the family help desk. In 2020 a harried parent may have someone "helpful" setup their device for them so it just works and they do not get "bothered" by an endless stream of emails. Now this mother is screwed. What Apple did was allow a 6 year old loose in a Casino with Mommies credit card. Mommy has some responsibility here, but, so does Apple.  
    muthuk_vanalingamglnfMacPro
  • Reply 85 of 100
    rtbink said:
    I think people who are sufficiently technically sophisticated to be reading Appleinsider really do underestimate how hard it is to set up digital devices for those who are not so sophisticated. I have to deal with this being the family help desk. In 2020 a harried parent may have someone "helpful" setup their device for them so it just works and they do not get "bothered" by an endless stream of emails. Now this mother is screwed. What Apple did was allow a 6 year old loose in a Casino with Mommies credit card. Mommy has some responsibility here, but, so does Apple.  
    If someone set things up so the family would not get all the notices, then that is not helpful and it isn’t Apple’s fault. Apple does offer help to setup devices for free and there is lots of ways to prevent this. It is plain stupid to blain apple. 
    edited December 2020
  • Reply 86 of 100
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,031member
    ktappe said:
    tommikele said:
    100% Mom's fault. At first, I was a little sympathetic and started to think maybe Apple should give her a partial break. Then I read what she said. Apple should double the amount of the charges the kid wracked up.



    Good lord you’re an ass. Could you withstand $32,000 of unexpected charges on your credit card? No? Then why the hell do you think somebody else should? For the actions of a six-year-old. What the heck is wrong with you?
    Ignorance does not hold up in court. I mean, I didn't know shooting someone in the back 20 times would hurt them....
    These game agreements smack of contracts of adhesion. Further, there is also the fact that minors do not have the legal authority to enter into contracts. Finally, no one is allowed to enter into a contract when they have knowledge, or should have knowledge that the other party is not mentally/legally competent to enter into a contract. This applies to minors as well as adults who are mentally incapacitated -- permanent, temporary or due to age.

    Then, there is the concept of attractive nuisance. Is there is anything more of an attractive nuisance than computer games for 6 year olds?
    edited December 2020 MacPro
  • Reply 87 of 100
    This is not a contract. This is more like leaving cash around and the child goes buying treats at the ice cream truck that came through the neighborhood. 
  • Reply 88 of 100
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    This is not a contract. This is more like leaving cash around and the child goes buying treats at the ice cream truck that came through the neighborhood. 
    $16,000.  And the ice cream is digital.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 89 of 100
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,344member
    larryjw said:
    These game agreements smack of contracts of adhesion. Further, there is also the fact that minors do not have the legal authority to enter into contracts. Finally, no one is allowed to enter into a contract when they have knowledge, or should have knowledge that the other party is not mentally/legally competent to enter into a contract. This applies to minors as well as adults who are mentally incapacitated -- permanent, temporary or due to age.

    Then, there is the concept of attractive nuisance. Is there is anything more of an attractive nuisance than computer games for 6 year olds?
    Please show one legal precedent of a parent not being culpable for a debt incurred by their child running up a bill because of IAPs. The child didn't enter in a contract, the parent did.

    The parent, who is responsible for rearing the child, for teach the child, and lastly for monitoring the child.

    It was OK to let her child play these games. She apparently was ok with his "cocaine" addiction, until it cost her money. It seems that she just handed the child the iPad with parental controls disabled and didn't check out the content her child chose. She was totally clueless?

    This isn't a matter of a harried, busy parent turning her back for a second and the kid darts out the door into traffic. This is ongoing behavior over a period of months. It's the parents duty to do due diligence because the child can't.

    We have responsibilities. Some of accept that we have to step up when we make mistakes and some of us what someone else to pay the price.

    That I believe the parent bears the brunt of responsibility and certainly is culpable, doesn't mean I or others are without empathy. But forgiving her of her responsibilities is not a requirement for having empathy (though clearly some here do not). 

    Several years ago, a lot of people riled when some other child racked up a tonne of debt from playing games. And the parents and others cried "Apple! How could you!" Bare deflection of responsibilities. So Apple implemented Parental Controls. They gave parents a "set and forget" answer, now they could go about their day while the child went about theirs.

    Years later, in spite of being given tools to absolutely prevent this from happening, a parent manages to let this happen. "I didn't know". It's not nearly as involved as reading an EULA. But it's still our responsibility. She could have prevented this, and she should have prevented this.

    I hope Apple doesn't pay. They get enough nuisance suits as it is. If she has a legitimate, legal grip with anybody it might be with Chase. But in a litigious society anybody can sue anybody. 

    Fidonet127
  • Reply 90 of 100
    j4117 said:
    Apple needs to be broken up.  It’s become too big, too indifferent; a monopoly.

    The same for Google, Facebook and Amazon.  And get rid of their tax subsidies.  Brick and mortar businesses are going bankrupt.  We can’t all live in a virtual world.
    Because of irresponsible parenting, Apple needs to be broken up?  Get your head out of your ass much?
    Fidonet127Dogperson
  • Reply 91 of 100

    ktappe said:
    tommikele said:
    100% Mom's fault. At first, I was a little sympathetic and started to think maybe Apple should give her a partial break. Then I read what she said. Apple should double the amount of the charges the kid wracked up.



    Good lord you’re an ass. Could you withstand $32,000 of unexpected charges on your credit card? No? Then why the hell do you think somebody else should? For the actions of a six-year-old. What the heck is wrong with you?
    I would have to ask, what is wrong with you?  Why shouldn't people be responsible for their actions (or lack of parenting)?  That's a problem today - people don't want to accept responsibility or be responsible.  The mother should not have allowed it to happen & should have done something about it much sooner.  Period.
    Fidonet127
  • Reply 92 of 100

    enterpol said:
    Man the majority of people on here are a holes 
    No - the majority of the people you refer to as a holes are responsible adults, and some (me) responsible parents.  People need to take responsibility for their actions or lack of actions (parenting).
    Fidonet127
  • Reply 93 of 100
    enterpol said:
    Apple should absolutely not do anything about this. It’s the mother’s fault. While I can see some of the “older generations” who didn’t grow up with technology should maybe be helped more—babysitting every adult who refuses to pay attention to their child isn’t Apple’s job. 

    These comments remind me of how parents think schools are supposed to teach their children everything.
    So, how many times have you read the EULA of the software you've installed?  Do you know what you agreed to?  I assume you're EXPLICITLY aware of everything you've said yes to, right?  A 6 year old shouldn't be penalized, and through him his parents.  This is a failure of apple and it's safeguards.  The account should have been locked.  If software purchases went from almost nothing to 2k in a month there's a good chance something is going on.  Credit cards will lock you out because they're on the hook if there's any fraud.  Apple just says not my problem, and leave this hole open because they profit from it.
    The 6 year old isn't penalized.  It is the "parents" who are penalized for lack of parenting.
    Fidonet127
  • Reply 94 of 100

    maccrazy said:
    I'm shocked at the lack of empathy and compassion from the commenters on this story. 

    It's 2020, the majority of parents are using anything at their disposal to entertain/occupy their kids so they can get some work done during the pandemic.

    The in-app gaming revenue model is totally predatory and should really be banned. It also makes for terrible games. 

    It shouldn't be possible to spend that much money on in-app purchases for one game. If Apple are not going to ban it then at least set a reasonable cap. 
    Do you understand that the "PARENTS" can set a reasonable cap?  It is the PARENTS' responsibility to do that - not Apple.
    Fidonet127
  • Reply 95 of 100

    Alger said:
    Jeesh, you tech people are harsh, and apparently none of these commenters are parents or have ever cared for anyone other than themselves.  It may be the parents' "fault", _technically_, in the sense that they may have made a mistake, unwittingly, not adjusting the settings or spotting notifications amongst the hundreds we all see every day, most of which mean nothing.  That does not give Apple and the gaming companies, worth hundreds of billions of dollars, any moral standing not to have an OUNCE of empathy for an obviously beleaguered parent, and simply void these purchases and refund the money.  Doing anything else would be heartless and unnecessarily predatory.  The worst-possible morally justifiable consequence for this would be cutting off the customer's future purchases.  Parenting is hard, VERY hard, and only gets harder; these mega-wealthy corporations have no business piling on to that.  

    No games aimed at children should be allowed to rack up charges more than a few dollars a month.  Anything more than that simply means there was some lapse of supervision, and it may have been accidental.  
    I am a parent and I parented responsibly.  It's not about being technical.  It's common sense & managing your credit cards & children.

    Morals of Apple or the game companies are not involved.  I'd say Apple even went overboard with Screen Time, family accounts, spending limits, etc. - Apple did more than they needed to.  The "parents" just ignored all of it, including the child, e-mail notices, credit card bills, etc., for 60+ days!!!!

    If parenting is too hard for some people, then they shouldn't be parents.  Parenting being hard is not an excuse to dodge responsibility (of parenting, e-mail, bills, credit cards, etc.)
    Fidonet127
  • Reply 96 of 100

    You don’t know what you don’t know. Parents don’t always have the time or insight to protect from this to happen.
    Let’s not forget that this mother is not the typical AppleInsider visitor. Completely different end-user.

    Apple should repay all the money out of decency & demand she takes precautions moving forward, or she should sue them and demand framework that better protects parents from misuse by children.
    The system should be designed “in reverse”; aka restrict at first and opt-in to remove these restrictions, so it’s a deliberate choice by the parent. Also much easier to defend legally for Apple. 

    Ps: This is yet an example of how the mobile games industry has been raped by Apple. The whole race-to-the-bottom “pay to win” approach is their fault. As a developer you stand no chance selling a game for even the cost of a cheap beer nowadays. You need to lure kids into spending virtual currency.
    The system for IAP is opt-in.. The parent had to put the credit card on the account (optional).  The parent had to allow in-app-purchases (optional).  The parent had to either allow IAP without a password (optional) or gave the child the password for IAP (optional.  All of this was opted-in by the parent.  The parent made these choices.  Period.
    Fidonet127Dogperson
  • Reply 97 of 100
    In-app purchases for "consumables" in games is a scummy business to be in. Everyone involved knows that they are creating and feeding an addiction including Apple. Especially Apple since they can see what they are doing across thousands of apps. Game developers are the pushers and the street corner sellers. Apple is the supplier.
    Apple does not hide in-app purchases but it does not treat them like the problem they are for many people. I have never once seen Apple talking about how it helps addicted gamers break their habit. I do see ads now on my iPhone for Apple's gaming service though.
    100% agree. As a parent of two boys it’s actually extremely difficult to (persistent) filter products by “no in-app purchases involved” and “no subscription involved”.
    I am forced to see every product, scroll to the little details and figure out the business model. This is a deliberate choice user-experience-design wise by Apple, serving them and not us.
  • Reply 98 of 100
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    In-app purchases for "consumables" in games is a scummy business to be in. Everyone involved knows that they are creating and feeding an addiction including Apple. Especially Apple since they can see what they are doing across thousands of apps. Game developers are the pushers and the street corner sellers. Apple is the supplier.
    Apple does not hide in-app purchases but it does not treat them like the problem they are for many people. I have never once seen Apple talking about how it helps addicted gamers break their habit. I do see ads now on my iPhone for Apple's gaming service though.
    100% agree. As a parent of two boys it’s actually extremely difficult to (persistent) filter products by “no in-app purchases involved” and “no subscription involved”.
    I am forced to see every product, scroll to the little details and figure out the business model. This is a deliberate choice user-experience-design wise by Apple, serving them and not us.
    And many here would say that it is your responsibility to know that letting your kid play Sonic Heroes, or any other of a number of games, could open you up to thousands of dollars of liability.  Why is that an obvious thing?  Why is it ok that that's a thing at all?  When has that ever been the case in history?  Only since Apple kickstarted this shitty situation, and their response to has been tweaking on the edges, little controls that shift blame for a predatory environment onto parents.

    I blame Apple for this entirely.  Their "curated|", "secure", "safe" walled garden has proved a damp squib in this regard, and they've been incredibly slow to do anything about it.  They need to clamp down on this now or they need to be raked over the goals for pushing addictive consumerism onto their customers, with little regard for whether they're children.
  • Reply 99 of 100
    Hopefully Apple will reimburse this family.  When Apple says that the parents should have known .. in response .. Whoever here (including Apple employees) knows all of Apple's policies - raise your hand. Whoever knows how to perform every task and make every necessary adjustment on any given Apple product - raise your hand. And if you knew yesterday, do you still know since new updates arrived? And for that matter, have you ever gone to do something on your Apple product and discovered that the procedure is different now? I've been using Apple products for years and years. Alway great products. But I don't remember any time where Apple has taken the cold stance that has been described here.
Sign In or Register to comment.