DHS advises companies to avoid Chinese hardware and software services

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  • Reply 21 of 32
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    tzeshan said:
    DAalseth said:
    tzeshan said:
    DHS is trying to protect American data? LOL What did they do about the Spams telephone calls Americans are receiving daily? None! Nahda! Nil! Why DHS cannot catch any of these criminals? America will be a much safer place if DHS can eliminate these Spam criminals. 
    I saw through the BS when DHS was created and I thought it was a bad idea then. Just an excuse for domestic spying. They're more concerned about American Enemies of the People (as W put it) than any threat from abroad. 
    DAalseth said:

    Trump built his career on misdirection, and once a grifter always a grifter. China is a threat, but Russia is as well. 


    This is the REAL threat posed by China.  It's not a military threat.   It's not a cyber threat.   It's economic.

    China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.

    The UK-based Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said China's "skilful" management of Covid-19 would boost its relative growth compared to the US and Europe in coming years.

    Meanwhile India is tipped to become the third largest economy by 2030.

    Although China was the first country hit by Covid-19, it controlled the disease through swift and extremely strict action, meaning it did not need to repeat economically paralysing lockdowns as European countries have done.

    The US economy, by contrast, has been hit hard by the world's worst coronavirus epidemic in terms of sheer numbers.


    US and Chinese economies 2010-2035 Gross domestic product in US trillions constant prices Chart shows Chinese and US economic output over time with China overtaking the US around 2028

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55454146

    You can argue with any one set of numbers.  But it's pretty well agreed throughout the world that's it's not IF China will assume the #1 role, but WHEN.

    The U.S has not only not done much economically for the last 20 years, it's been living off of borrowed and printed money.   It needs to step up its game.  The question is:   How does it do that?   We need a GOAT to lead the country, but all we've had over (soon to be) 4 administrations are average players.   At best.




    Long time ago Chinese elites once blamed western world as the cause of its perils. It is evident now the real enemy is Chinese itself. I think it is the same here in US. Democrats is practicing communism by doling out things to the lower class of people instead of encouraging them to work. And the human rightists are distracting Americans of its own domestic problems. 

    The advantage of a democracy is that it can right itself -- correct its direction -- if it starts going wrong (or goes too far wrong).
    The disadvantage is that conflicting ideologies and interests can keep it floundering like a ship out in a storm with a broken engine.

    Autocracies (whether socialist or capitalist) have the exact opposite:
    They have the advantage to react swiftly and effectively to the long term needs of the people and changing conditions. 
    Their disadvantage is, with bad leadership, they can sail off in a bad direction and there is simply no stopping them short of insurrection and revolution.

    China, since its communist takeover, has had the advantage of good leadership that has pulled its people out of poverty (and saved them from the virus).  That is shown in their economic development as it becomes the world's #1 economic power.  They are operating like a very large, well run corporation and its economic results prove it.   The question is:  how long will that good leadership last?   Because, once its good leadership is taken over by bad leaders, it has no way to right itself.

    But you say:  "Democrats is practicing communism...".  That statement confuses socialism with communism.   Communism merges a socialist economic model with an autocratic form of government.   Socialism can exist in either a democracy or an autocracy.   The United States since its inception has been a mix of socialism and capitalism -- and that has been part of its strength:  When Benjamin Franklin organized Community Fire Departments and Community Libraries and ran the government Post Office he was practicing socialism.   When he printed and sold his books and newspapers he was an entrepreneur practicing capitalism.   Today, the right wing in America has become so radicalized and hateful of its own government that any hint of government intervention is claimed to be a socialist (or worse, a communist) takeover.  So, while they keep the country paralyzed in the grips of the virus, China effectively eliminated the problem and is soaring ahead both in both its physical health as well as its economic health.

    US succeeded because of two things, freedom of speech and the scientific revolution. The scientific revolution spawned industrial revolution and ultimately the high tech digital information revolution we see in Apple. Socialist ideology is fair distribution of wealth while communists ideology is equal distribution of wealth regardless of everything. Democrats are focusing UBI, national health care, free university, and the old AA system. These are communism. In China there is none of these social benefits to Chinese. 
  • Reply 22 of 32
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    tzeshan said:
    DAalseth said:
    tzeshan said:
    DHS is trying to protect American data? LOL What did they do about the Spams telephone calls Americans are receiving daily? None! Nahda! Nil! Why DHS cannot catch any of these criminals? America will be a much safer place if DHS can eliminate these Spam criminals. 
    I saw through the BS when DHS was created and I thought it was a bad idea then. Just an excuse for domestic spying. They're more concerned about American Enemies of the People (as W put it) than any threat from abroad. 
    DAalseth said:

    Trump built his career on misdirection, and once a grifter always a grifter. China is a threat, but Russia is as well. 


    This is the REAL threat posed by China.  It's not a military threat.   It's not a cyber threat.   It's economic.

    China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.

    The UK-based Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said China's "skilful" management of Covid-19 would boost its relative growth compared to the US and Europe in coming years.

    Meanwhile India is tipped to become the third largest economy by 2030.

    Although China was the first country hit by Covid-19, it controlled the disease through swift and extremely strict action, meaning it did not need to repeat economically paralysing lockdowns as European countries have done.

    The US economy, by contrast, has been hit hard by the world's worst coronavirus epidemic in terms of sheer numbers.


    US and Chinese economies 2010-2035 Gross domestic product in US trillions constant prices Chart shows Chinese and US economic output over time with China overtaking the US around 2028

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55454146

    You can argue with any one set of numbers.  But it's pretty well agreed throughout the world that's it's not IF China will assume the #1 role, but WHEN.

    The U.S has not only not done much economically for the last 20 years, it's been living off of borrowed and printed money.   It needs to step up its game.  The question is:   How does it do that?   We need a GOAT to lead the country, but all we've had over (soon to be) 4 administrations are average players.   At best.




    Long time ago Chinese elites once blamed western world as the cause of its perils. It is evident now the real enemy is Chinese itself. I think it is the same here in US. Democrats is practicing communism by doling out things to the lower class of people instead of encouraging them to work. And the human rightists are distracting Americans of its own domestic problems. 

    The advantage of a democracy is that it can right itself -- correct its direction -- if it starts going wrong (or goes too far wrong).
    The disadvantage is that conflicting ideologies and interests can keep it floundering like a ship out in a storm with a broken engine.

    Autocracies (whether socialist or capitalist) have the exact opposite:
    They have the advantage to react swiftly and effectively to the long term needs of the people and changing conditions. 
    Their disadvantage is, with bad leadership, they can sail off in a bad direction and there is simply no stopping them short of insurrection and revolution.

    China, since its communist takeover, has had the advantage of good leadership that has pulled its people out of poverty (and saved them from the virus).  That is shown in their economic development as it becomes the world's #1 economic power.  They are operating like a very large, well run corporation and its economic results prove it.   The question is:  how long will that good leadership last?   Because, once its good leadership is taken over by bad leaders, it has no way to right itself.

    But you say:  "Democrats is practicing communism...".  That statement confuses socialism with communism.   Communism merges a socialist economic model with an autocratic form of government.   Socialism can exist in either a democracy or an autocracy.   The United States since its inception has been a mix of socialism and capitalism -- and that has been part of its strength:  When Benjamin Franklin organized Community Fire Departments and Community Libraries and ran the government Post Office he was practicing socialism.   When he printed and sold his books and newspapers he was an entrepreneur practicing capitalism.   Today, the right wing in America has become so radicalized and hateful of its own government that any hint of government intervention is claimed to be a socialist (or worse, a communist) takeover.  So, while they keep the country paralyzed in the grips of the virus, China effectively eliminated the problem and is soaring ahead both in both its physical health as well as its economic health.

    Yes, US desperately needs to right itself out of anti-China ideology. It also needs to stop Democrats practicing communism. 
  • Reply 23 of 32
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    DAalseth said:
    tzeshan said:
    DHS is trying to protect American data? LOL What did they do about the Spams telephone calls Americans are receiving daily? None! Nahda! Nil! Why DHS cannot catch any of these criminals? America will be a much safer place if DHS can eliminate these Spam criminals. 
    I saw through the BS when DHS was created and I thought it was a bad idea then. Just an excuse for domestic spying. They're more concerned about American Enemies of the People (as W put it) than any threat from abroad. 
    DAalseth said:

    Trump built his career on misdirection, and once a grifter always a grifter. China is a threat, but Russia is as well. 


    This is the REAL threat posed by China.  It's not a military threat.   It's not a cyber threat.   It's economic.

    China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.

    The UK-based Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said China's "skilful" management of Covid-19 would boost its relative growth compared to the US and Europe in coming years.

    Meanwhile India is tipped to become the third largest economy by 2030.

    Although China was the first country hit by Covid-19, it controlled the disease through swift and extremely strict action, meaning it did not need to repeat economically paralysing lockdowns as European countries have done.

    The US economy, by contrast, has been hit hard by the world's worst coronavirus epidemic in terms of sheer numbers.


    US and Chinese economies 2010-2035 Gross domestic product in US trillions constant prices Chart shows Chinese and US economic output over time with China overtaking the US around 2028

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55454146

    You can argue with any one set of numbers.  But it's pretty well agreed throughout the world that's it's not IF China will assume the #1 role, but WHEN.

    The U.S has not only not done much economically for the last 20 years, it's been living off of borrowed and printed money.   It needs to step up its game.  The question is:   How does it do that?   We need a GOAT to lead the country, but all we've had over (soon to be) 4 administrations are average players.   At best.




    Long time ago Chinese elites once blamed western world as the cause of its perils. It is evident now the real enemy is Chinese itself. I think it is the same here in US. Democrats is practicing communism by doling out things to the lower class of people instead of encouraging them to work. And the human rightists are distracting Americans of its own domestic problems. 

    The advantage of a democracy is that it can right itself -- correct its direction -- if it starts going wrong (or goes too far wrong).
    The disadvantage is that conflicting ideologies and interests can keep it floundering like a ship out in a storm with a broken engine.

    Autocracies (whether socialist or capitalist) have the exact opposite:
    They have the advantage to react swiftly and effectively to the long term needs of the people and changing conditions. 
    Their disadvantage is, with bad leadership, they can sail off in a bad direction and there is simply no stopping them short of insurrection and revolution.

    China, since its communist takeover, has had the advantage of good leadership that has pulled its people out of poverty (and saved them from the virus).  That is shown in their economic development as it becomes the world's #1 economic power.  They are operating like a very large, well run corporation and its economic results prove it.   The question is:  how long will that good leadership last?   Because, once its good leadership is taken over by bad leaders, it has no way to right itself.

    But you say:  "Democrats is practicing communism...".  That statement confuses socialism with communism.   Communism merges a socialist economic model with an autocratic form of government.   Socialism can exist in either a democracy or an autocracy.   The United States since its inception has been a mix of socialism and capitalism -- and that has been part of its strength:  When Benjamin Franklin organized Community Fire Departments and Community Libraries and ran the government Post Office he was practicing socialism.   When he printed and sold his books and newspapers he was an entrepreneur practicing capitalism.   Today, the right wing in America has become so radicalized and hateful of its own government that any hint of government intervention is claimed to be a socialist (or worse, a communist) takeover.  So, while they keep the country paralyzed in the grips of the virus, China effectively eliminated the problem and is soaring ahead both in both its physical health as well as its economic health.

    US succeeded because of two things, freedom of speech and the scientific revolution. The scientific revolution spawned industrial revolution and ultimately the high tech digital information revolution we see in Apple. Socialist ideology is fair distribution of wealth while communists ideology is equal distribution of wealth regardless of everything. Democrats are focusing UBI, national health care, free university, and the old AA system. These are communism. In China there is none of these social benefits to Chinese. 

    No, Communism is a form of authoritarian government that uses socialism as an economic foundation.
    Socialism is an economic system.  Nothing more.

    The U.S. has always been a mix of socialism and capitalism.   Social Security -- which has existed for almost a 100 years is one example.
    The claims of Democrats being demonized as socialists or communists is merely a political smear campaign aimed at those who know no better.
  • Reply 24 of 32
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    DAalseth said:
    tzeshan said:
    DHS is trying to protect American data? LOL What did they do about the Spams telephone calls Americans are receiving daily? None! Nahda! Nil! Why DHS cannot catch any of these criminals? America will be a much safer place if DHS can eliminate these Spam criminals. 
    I saw through the BS when DHS was created and I thought it was a bad idea then. Just an excuse for domestic spying. They're more concerned about American Enemies of the People (as W put it) than any threat from abroad. 
    DAalseth said:

    Trump built his career on misdirection, and once a grifter always a grifter. China is a threat, but Russia is as well. 


    This is the REAL threat posed by China.  It's not a military threat.   It's not a cyber threat.   It's economic.

    China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.

    The UK-based Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said China's "skilful" management of Covid-19 would boost its relative growth compared to the US and Europe in coming years.

    Meanwhile India is tipped to become the third largest economy by 2030.

    Although China was the first country hit by Covid-19, it controlled the disease through swift and extremely strict action, meaning it did not need to repeat economically paralysing lockdowns as European countries have done.

    The US economy, by contrast, has been hit hard by the world's worst coronavirus epidemic in terms of sheer numbers.


    US and Chinese economies 2010-2035 Gross domestic product in US trillions constant prices Chart shows Chinese and US economic output over time with China overtaking the US around 2028

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55454146

    You can argue with any one set of numbers.  But it's pretty well agreed throughout the world that's it's not IF China will assume the #1 role, but WHEN.

    The U.S has not only not done much economically for the last 20 years, it's been living off of borrowed and printed money.   It needs to step up its game.  The question is:   How does it do that?   We need a GOAT to lead the country, but all we've had over (soon to be) 4 administrations are average players.   At best.




    Long time ago Chinese elites once blamed western world as the cause of its perils. It is evident now the real enemy is Chinese itself. I think it is the same here in US. Democrats is practicing communism by doling out things to the lower class of people instead of encouraging them to work. And the human rightists are distracting Americans of its own domestic problems. 

    The advantage of a democracy is that it can right itself -- correct its direction -- if it starts going wrong (or goes too far wrong).
    The disadvantage is that conflicting ideologies and interests can keep it floundering like a ship out in a storm with a broken engine.

    Autocracies (whether socialist or capitalist) have the exact opposite:
    They have the advantage to react swiftly and effectively to the long term needs of the people and changing conditions. 
    Their disadvantage is, with bad leadership, they can sail off in a bad direction and there is simply no stopping them short of insurrection and revolution.

    China, since its communist takeover, has had the advantage of good leadership that has pulled its people out of poverty (and saved them from the virus).  That is shown in their economic development as it becomes the world's #1 economic power.  They are operating like a very large, well run corporation and its economic results prove it.   The question is:  how long will that good leadership last?   Because, once its good leadership is taken over by bad leaders, it has no way to right itself.

    But you say:  "Democrats is practicing communism...".  That statement confuses socialism with communism.   Communism merges a socialist economic model with an autocratic form of government.   Socialism can exist in either a democracy or an autocracy.   The United States since its inception has been a mix of socialism and capitalism -- and that has been part of its strength:  When Benjamin Franklin organized Community Fire Departments and Community Libraries and ran the government Post Office he was practicing socialism.   When he printed and sold his books and newspapers he was an entrepreneur practicing capitalism.   Today, the right wing in America has become so radicalized and hateful of its own government that any hint of government intervention is claimed to be a socialist (or worse, a communist) takeover.  So, while they keep the country paralyzed in the grips of the virus, China effectively eliminated the problem and is soaring ahead both in both its physical health as well as its economic health.

    US succeeded because of two things, freedom of speech and the scientific revolution. The scientific revolution spawned industrial revolution and ultimately the high tech digital information revolution we see in Apple. Socialist ideology is fair distribution of wealth while communists ideology is equal distribution of wealth regardless of everything. Democrats are focusing UBI, national health care, free university, and the old AA system. These are communism. In China there is none of these social benefits to Chinese. 

    No, Communism is a form of authoritarian government that uses socialism as an economic foundation.
    Socialism is an economic system.  Nothing more.

    The U.S. has always been a mix of socialism and capitalism.   Social Security -- which has existed for almost a 100 years is one example.
    The claims of Democrats being demonized as socialists or communists is merely a political smear campaign aimed at those who know no better.
    You are brainwashed by US ideology. Read Wikipedia about what communism is.
    Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a philosophicalsocialpolitical and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classesmoney[3][4] and the state.[5][6]

    My definition is very general. Communism seeks to share wealth equally in the society. It does not care if you contributed a lot. This is what many Democrats are interested to do including Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Andrew Yang. 
  • Reply 25 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    DAalseth said:
    tzeshan said:
    DHS is trying to protect American data? LOL What did they do about the Spams telephone calls Americans are receiving daily? None! Nahda! Nil! Why DHS cannot catch any of these criminals? America will be a much safer place if DHS can eliminate these Spam criminals. 
    I saw through the BS when DHS was created and I thought it was a bad idea then. Just an excuse for domestic spying. They're more concerned about American Enemies of the People (as W put it) than any threat from abroad. 
    DAalseth said:

    Trump built his career on misdirection, and once a grifter always a grifter. China is a threat, but Russia is as well. 


    This is the REAL threat posed by China.  It's not a military threat.   It's not a cyber threat.   It's economic.

    China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.

    The UK-based Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said China's "skilful" management of Covid-19 would boost its relative growth compared to the US and Europe in coming years.

    Meanwhile India is tipped to become the third largest economy by 2030.

    Although China was the first country hit by Covid-19, it controlled the disease through swift and extremely strict action, meaning it did not need to repeat economically paralysing lockdowns as European countries have done.

    The US economy, by contrast, has been hit hard by the world's worst coronavirus epidemic in terms of sheer numbers.


    US and Chinese economies 2010-2035 Gross domestic product in US trillions constant prices Chart shows Chinese and US economic output over time with China overtaking the US around 2028

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55454146

    You can argue with any one set of numbers.  But it's pretty well agreed throughout the world that's it's not IF China will assume the #1 role, but WHEN.

    The U.S has not only not done much economically for the last 20 years, it's been living off of borrowed and printed money.   It needs to step up its game.  The question is:   How does it do that?   We need a GOAT to lead the country, but all we've had over (soon to be) 4 administrations are average players.   At best.




    Long time ago Chinese elites once blamed western world as the cause of its perils. It is evident now the real enemy is Chinese itself. I think it is the same here in US. Democrats is practicing communism by doling out things to the lower class of people instead of encouraging them to work. And the human rightists are distracting Americans of its own domestic problems. 

    The advantage of a democracy is that it can right itself -- correct its direction -- if it starts going wrong (or goes too far wrong).
    The disadvantage is that conflicting ideologies and interests can keep it floundering like a ship out in a storm with a broken engine.

    Autocracies (whether socialist or capitalist) have the exact opposite:
    They have the advantage to react swiftly and effectively to the long term needs of the people and changing conditions. 
    Their disadvantage is, with bad leadership, they can sail off in a bad direction and there is simply no stopping them short of insurrection and revolution.

    China, since its communist takeover, has had the advantage of good leadership that has pulled its people out of poverty (and saved them from the virus).  That is shown in their economic development as it becomes the world's #1 economic power.  They are operating like a very large, well run corporation and its economic results prove it.   The question is:  how long will that good leadership last?   Because, once its good leadership is taken over by bad leaders, it has no way to right itself.

    But you say:  "Democrats is practicing communism...".  That statement confuses socialism with communism.   Communism merges a socialist economic model with an autocratic form of government.   Socialism can exist in either a democracy or an autocracy.   The United States since its inception has been a mix of socialism and capitalism -- and that has been part of its strength:  When Benjamin Franklin organized Community Fire Departments and Community Libraries and ran the government Post Office he was practicing socialism.   When he printed and sold his books and newspapers he was an entrepreneur practicing capitalism.   Today, the right wing in America has become so radicalized and hateful of its own government that any hint of government intervention is claimed to be a socialist (or worse, a communist) takeover.  So, while they keep the country paralyzed in the grips of the virus, China effectively eliminated the problem and is soaring ahead both in both its physical health as well as its economic health.

    US succeeded because of two things, freedom of speech and the scientific revolution. The scientific revolution spawned industrial revolution and ultimately the high tech digital information revolution we see in Apple. Socialist ideology is fair distribution of wealth while communists ideology is equal distribution of wealth regardless of everything. Democrats are focusing UBI, national health care, free university, and the old AA system. These are communism. In China there is none of these social benefits to Chinese. 

    No, Communism is a form of authoritarian government that uses socialism as an economic foundation.
    Socialism is an economic system.  Nothing more.

    The U.S. has always been a mix of socialism and capitalism.   Social Security -- which has existed for almost a 100 years is one example.
    The claims of Democrats being demonized as socialists or communists is merely a political smear campaign aimed at those who know no better.
    You are brainwashed by US ideology. Read Wikipedia about what communism is.
    Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a philosophicalsocialpolitical and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classesmoney[3][4] and the state.[5][6]

    My definition is very general. Communism seeks to share wealth equally in the society. It does not care if you contributed a lot. This is what many Democrats are interested to do including Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Andrew Yang. 

    Good that you are backing off of your claim that [all] Democrats want Communism to now only "Many" -- but then you can only name 3.   And the leader of those 3 was rejected by the Democrats for their nominee to be president -- so obviously they do not represent Democrats (as much as Trump wanted them to).   But, even then, you misrepresent even those three:  Sanders is not a communist.   He is a self-proclaimed "Democratic Socialist", not a communist.

    And your insinuation that all communists want to spread communism to the rest of the world is wildly out of date.   That died with Soviet Union back in the 1980's.   And further, your definition is incomplete in that it defines communism merely as a 100% socialist society.    While it is, that is only the economic side.   The other side is that it always includes an authoritarian government.

    You are confusing Socialism with Communism.  They have some common traits but are not the same.

    And further, you fail to recognize that every major, developed Democratic society is part capitalist and part socialist and instead you try to make it either/or.  The fact is, there are some things that private capital can do best and there are some things that government can do best.   A well run country knows that and takes advantage of that.   China did:  for the past 20-30 years they have been incorporating capitalism into their communist nation -- and for them it has worked well.   Likewise, 75 years ago most western developed, democratic nations switched to what some call "socialized medicine" and now they pay far less while getting far better healthcare than that which is available to Americans under their for-profit health care system.

    In the U.S the very socialist public school system has existed since the beginning.   Later we added public post offices, police, fire, libraries, sports and recreation centers, and then Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- which are all socialist concepts.   But, the current batch of ReTrumplicans have been brainwashed to believe that mere mention of the word "socialism" is a cardinal, mortal sin.
  • Reply 26 of 32
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    DAalseth said:
    tzeshan said:
    DHS is trying to protect American data? LOL What did they do about the Spams telephone calls Americans are receiving daily? None! Nahda! Nil! Why DHS cannot catch any of these criminals? America will be a much safer place if DHS can eliminate these Spam criminals. 
    I saw through the BS when DHS was created and I thought it was a bad idea then. Just an excuse for domestic spying. They're more concerned about American Enemies of the People (as W put it) than any threat from abroad. 
    DAalseth said:

    Trump built his career on misdirection, and once a grifter always a grifter. China is a threat, but Russia is as well. 


    This is the REAL threat posed by China.  It's not a military threat.   It's not a cyber threat.   It's economic.

    China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.

    The UK-based Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said China's "skilful" management of Covid-19 would boost its relative growth compared to the US and Europe in coming years.

    Meanwhile India is tipped to become the third largest economy by 2030.

    Although China was the first country hit by Covid-19, it controlled the disease through swift and extremely strict action, meaning it did not need to repeat economically paralysing lockdowns as European countries have done.

    The US economy, by contrast, has been hit hard by the world's worst coronavirus epidemic in terms of sheer numbers.


    US and Chinese economies 2010-2035 Gross domestic product in US trillions constant prices Chart shows Chinese and US economic output over time with China overtaking the US around 2028

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55454146

    You can argue with any one set of numbers.  But it's pretty well agreed throughout the world that's it's not IF China will assume the #1 role, but WHEN.

    The U.S has not only not done much economically for the last 20 years, it's been living off of borrowed and printed money.   It needs to step up its game.  The question is:   How does it do that?   We need a GOAT to lead the country, but all we've had over (soon to be) 4 administrations are average players.   At best.




    Long time ago Chinese elites once blamed western world as the cause of its perils. It is evident now the real enemy is Chinese itself. I think it is the same here in US. Democrats is practicing communism by doling out things to the lower class of people instead of encouraging them to work. And the human rightists are distracting Americans of its own domestic problems. 

    The advantage of a democracy is that it can right itself -- correct its direction -- if it starts going wrong (or goes too far wrong).
    The disadvantage is that conflicting ideologies and interests can keep it floundering like a ship out in a storm with a broken engine.

    Autocracies (whether socialist or capitalist) have the exact opposite:
    They have the advantage to react swiftly and effectively to the long term needs of the people and changing conditions. 
    Their disadvantage is, with bad leadership, they can sail off in a bad direction and there is simply no stopping them short of insurrection and revolution.

    China, since its communist takeover, has had the advantage of good leadership that has pulled its people out of poverty (and saved them from the virus).  That is shown in their economic development as it becomes the world's #1 economic power.  They are operating like a very large, well run corporation and its economic results prove it.   The question is:  how long will that good leadership last?   Because, once its good leadership is taken over by bad leaders, it has no way to right itself.

    But you say:  "Democrats is practicing communism...".  That statement confuses socialism with communism.   Communism merges a socialist economic model with an autocratic form of government.   Socialism can exist in either a democracy or an autocracy.   The United States since its inception has been a mix of socialism and capitalism -- and that has been part of its strength:  When Benjamin Franklin organized Community Fire Departments and Community Libraries and ran the government Post Office he was practicing socialism.   When he printed and sold his books and newspapers he was an entrepreneur practicing capitalism.   Today, the right wing in America has become so radicalized and hateful of its own government that any hint of government intervention is claimed to be a socialist (or worse, a communist) takeover.  So, while they keep the country paralyzed in the grips of the virus, China effectively eliminated the problem and is soaring ahead both in both its physical health as well as its economic health.

    US succeeded because of two things, freedom of speech and the scientific revolution. The scientific revolution spawned industrial revolution and ultimately the high tech digital information revolution we see in Apple. Socialist ideology is fair distribution of wealth while communists ideology is equal distribution of wealth regardless of everything. Democrats are focusing UBI, national health care, free university, and the old AA system. These are communism. In China there is none of these social benefits to Chinese. 

    No, Communism is a form of authoritarian government that uses socialism as an economic foundation.
    Socialism is an economic system.  Nothing more.

    The U.S. has always been a mix of socialism and capitalism.   Social Security -- which has existed for almost a 100 years is one example.
    The claims of Democrats being demonized as socialists or communists is merely a political smear campaign aimed at those who know no better.
    You are brainwashed by US ideology. Read Wikipedia about what communism is.
    Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a philosophicalsocialpolitical and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classesmoney[3][4] and the state.[5][6]

    My definition is very general. Communism seeks to share wealth equally in the society. It does not care if you contributed a lot. This is what many Democrats are interested to do including Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Andrew Yang. 

    Good that you are backing off of your claim that [all] Democrats want Communism to now only "Many" -- but then you can only name 3.   And the leader of those 3 was rejected by the Democrats for their nominee to be president -- so obviously they do not represent Democrats (as much as Trump wanted them to).   But, even then, you misrepresent even those three:  Sanders is not a communist.   He is a self-proclaimed "Democratic Socialist", not a communist.

    And your insinuation that all communists want to spread communism to the rest of the world is wildly out of date.   That died with Soviet Union back in the 1980's.   And further, your definition is incomplete in that it defines communism merely as a 100% socialist society.    While it is, that is only the economic side.   The other side is that it always includes an authoritarian government.

    You are confusing Socialism with Communism.  They have some common traits but are not the same.

    And further, you fail to recognize that every major, developed Democratic society is part capitalist and part socialist and instead you try to make it either/or.  The fact is, there are some things that private capital can do best and there are some things that government can do best.   A well run country knows that and takes advantage of that.   China did:  for the past 20-30 years they have been incorporating capitalism into their communist nation -- and for them it has worked well.   Likewise, 75 years ago most western developed, democratic nations switched to what some call "socialized medicine" and now they pay far less while getting far better healthcare than that which is available to Americans under their for-profit health care system.

    In the U.S the very socialist public school system has existed since the beginning.   Later we added public post offices, police, fire, libraries, sports and recreation centers, and then Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- which are all socialist concepts.   But, the current batch of ReTrumplicans have been brainwashed to believe that mere mention of the word "socialism" is a cardinal, mortal sin.
    No, I stick to my definition of communism. Sanders misunderstand what socialism is. 

    I did not insinuate communists spread communism to the rest of the world. It is a right wing propaganda originated in US as an excuse to launch cold war and led US into Korean War and Vietnamese War. The fact is a Korean and a Vietnamese learned communism from USSR and want to use it in their native country. The same history is true to Cuba. 

    I like to add one ingredient to our discussion, politics. Politics is a way to regulate daily activities of a group of people living together. In order to achieve communism politics has to be used. 

    Each country sets up a system to practice politics. US already has a political system long time ago. It is called democracy. I don't think it is one hundred per cent correct to say it is a democratic system. To prove that, you can look at the democracy in many third world countries. They are not the same as US and many are not successful including the one you talked about a lot here. 

    US political is already set up therefore communism cannot be successful easily. We use election and propositions to decide how to govern. Communist ideas can be voted down by the people proposition 16 that California rejected last month. And I think Democrats can understand the will of people and modify their agenda in the future. 

    One last thing, communism is not associated with a nation. It is advocated by political party. And political party can modify its platform. This is what Deng modified it and China as a nation followed in the last forty years. 
  • Reply 27 of 32
    Trying, but most manufacturing is still in China’s hands.
  • Reply 28 of 32
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    DAalseth said:
    tzeshan said:
    DHS is trying to protect American data? LOL What did they do about the Spams telephone calls Americans are receiving daily? None! Nahda! Nil! Why DHS cannot catch any of these criminals? America will be a much safer place if DHS can eliminate these Spam criminals. 
    I saw through the BS when DHS was created and I thought it was a bad idea then. Just an excuse for domestic spying. They're more concerned about American Enemies of the People (as W put it) than any threat from abroad. 
    DAalseth said:

    Trump built his career on misdirection, and once a grifter always a grifter. China is a threat, but Russia is as well. 


    This is the REAL threat posed by China.  It's not a military threat.   It's not a cyber threat.   It's economic.

    China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.

    The UK-based Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said China's "skilful" management of Covid-19 would boost its relative growth compared to the US and Europe in coming years.

    Meanwhile India is tipped to become the third largest economy by 2030.

    Although China was the first country hit by Covid-19, it controlled the disease through swift and extremely strict action, meaning it did not need to repeat economically paralysing lockdowns as European countries have done.

    The US economy, by contrast, has been hit hard by the world's worst coronavirus epidemic in terms of sheer numbers.


    US and Chinese economies 2010-2035 Gross domestic product in US trillions constant prices Chart shows Chinese and US economic output over time with China overtaking the US around 2028

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55454146

    You can argue with any one set of numbers.  But it's pretty well agreed throughout the world that's it's not IF China will assume the #1 role, but WHEN.

    The U.S has not only not done much economically for the last 20 years, it's been living off of borrowed and printed money.   It needs to step up its game.  The question is:   How does it do that?   We need a GOAT to lead the country, but all we've had over (soon to be) 4 administrations are average players.   At best.




    Long time ago Chinese elites once blamed western world as the cause of its perils. It is evident now the real enemy is Chinese itself. I think it is the same here in US. Democrats is practicing communism by doling out things to the lower class of people instead of encouraging them to work. And the human rightists are distracting Americans of its own domestic problems. 

    The advantage of a democracy is that it can right itself -- correct its direction -- if it starts going wrong (or goes too far wrong).
    The disadvantage is that conflicting ideologies and interests can keep it floundering like a ship out in a storm with a broken engine.

    Autocracies (whether socialist or capitalist) have the exact opposite:
    They have the advantage to react swiftly and effectively to the long term needs of the people and changing conditions. 
    Their disadvantage is, with bad leadership, they can sail off in a bad direction and there is simply no stopping them short of insurrection and revolution.

    China, since its communist takeover, has had the advantage of good leadership that has pulled its people out of poverty (and saved them from the virus).  That is shown in their economic development as it becomes the world's #1 economic power.  They are operating like a very large, well run corporation and its economic results prove it.   The question is:  how long will that good leadership last?   Because, once its good leadership is taken over by bad leaders, it has no way to right itself.

    But you say:  "Democrats is practicing communism...".  That statement confuses socialism with communism.   Communism merges a socialist economic model with an autocratic form of government.   Socialism can exist in either a democracy or an autocracy.   The United States since its inception has been a mix of socialism and capitalism -- and that has been part of its strength:  When Benjamin Franklin organized Community Fire Departments and Community Libraries and ran the government Post Office he was practicing socialism.   When he printed and sold his books and newspapers he was an entrepreneur practicing capitalism.   Today, the right wing in America has become so radicalized and hateful of its own government that any hint of government intervention is claimed to be a socialist (or worse, a communist) takeover.  So, while they keep the country paralyzed in the grips of the virus, China effectively eliminated the problem and is soaring ahead both in both its physical health as well as its economic health.

    US succeeded because of two things, freedom of speech and the scientific revolution. The scientific revolution spawned industrial revolution and ultimately the high tech digital information revolution we see in Apple. Socialist ideology is fair distribution of wealth while communists ideology is equal distribution of wealth regardless of everything. Democrats are focusing UBI, national health care, free university, and the old AA system. These are communism. In China there is none of these social benefits to Chinese. 

    No, Communism is a form of authoritarian government that uses socialism as an economic foundation.
    Socialism is an economic system.  Nothing more.

    The U.S. has always been a mix of socialism and capitalism.   Social Security -- which has existed for almost a 100 years is one example.
    The claims of Democrats being demonized as socialists or communists is merely a political smear campaign aimed at those who know no better.
    You are brainwashed by US ideology. Read Wikipedia about what communism is.
    Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a philosophicalsocialpolitical and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classesmoney[3][4] and the state.[5][6]

    My definition is very general. Communism seeks to share wealth equally in the society. It does not care if you contributed a lot. This is what many Democrats are interested to do including Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Andrew Yang. 

    Good that you are backing off of your claim that [all] Democrats want Communism to now only "Many" -- but then you can only name 3.   And the leader of those 3 was rejected by the Democrats for their nominee to be president -- so obviously they do not represent Democrats (as much as Trump wanted them to).   But, even then, you misrepresent even those three:  Sanders is not a communist.   He is a self-proclaimed "Democratic Socialist", not a communist.

    And your insinuation that all communists want to spread communism to the rest of the world is wildly out of date.   That died with Soviet Union back in the 1980's.   And further, your definition is incomplete in that it defines communism merely as a 100% socialist society.    While it is, that is only the economic side.   The other side is that it always includes an authoritarian government.

    You are confusing Socialism with Communism.  They have some common traits but are not the same.

    And further, you fail to recognize that every major, developed Democratic society is part capitalist and part socialist and instead you try to make it either/or.  The fact is, there are some things that private capital can do best and there are some things that government can do best.   A well run country knows that and takes advantage of that.   China did:  for the past 20-30 years they have been incorporating capitalism into their communist nation -- and for them it has worked well.   Likewise, 75 years ago most western developed, democratic nations switched to what some call "socialized medicine" and now they pay far less while getting far better healthcare than that which is available to Americans under their for-profit health care system.

    In the U.S the very socialist public school system has existed since the beginning.   Later we added public post offices, police, fire, libraries, sports and recreation centers, and then Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- which are all socialist concepts.   But, the current batch of ReTrumplicans have been brainwashed to believe that mere mention of the word "socialism" is a cardinal, mortal sin.
    No, I stick to my definition of communism. Sanders misunderstand what socialism is. 

    I did not insinuate communists spread communism to the rest of the world. It is a right wing propaganda originated in US as an excuse to launch cold war and led US into Korean War and Vietnamese War. The fact is a Korean and a Vietnamese learned communism from USSR and want to use it in their native country. The same history is true to Cuba. 

    I like to add one ingredient to our discussion, politics. Politics is a way to regulate daily activities of a group of people living together. In order to achieve communism politics has to be used. 

    Each country sets up a system to practice politics. US already has a political system long time ago. It is called democracy. I don't think it is one hundred per cent correct to say it is a democratic system. To prove that, you can look at the democracy in many third world countries. They are not the same as US and many are not successful including the one you talked about a lot here. 

    US political is already set up therefore communism cannot be successful easily. We use election and propositions to decide how to govern. Communist ideas can be voted down by the people proposition 16 that California rejected last month. And I think Democrats can understand the will of people and modify their agenda in the future. 

    One last thing, communism is not associated with a nation. It is advocated by political party. And political party can modify its platform. This is what Deng modified it and China as a nation followed in the last forty years. 

    While I don't agree with his ideas (too radical for me) I am pretty sure Bernie understands what both socialism and communism are.

    And no, unlike its current attempts with China, the U.S. did not trigger a cold war with the Soviet Union.   Their goal was world domination -- and they made no secret about it.   The first hint was maybe when Kruschev screamed at the U.S.:   "We will bury you!".  And it was justification for the disaster known as the Vietnam War;   They were doing all they could to spread their communist power throughout the world, nation by nation.   The choice the U.S. had was:   "Let them have South Vietnam or fight back?"  But, obviously not all Americans agreed with the decision to fight -- especially those would be chosen to do the fighting.  For myself, I had a college deferment until they switched to the lottery system at which point I came up 355 out of 365 -- I was never so happy to lose a lottery!

    And neither democracy nor communism are tied to any one nation -- or party.   They are both concepts and philosophies that can be accepted or rejected by any nation.
  • Reply 29 of 32
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    DAalseth said:
    tzeshan said:
    DHS is trying to protect American data? LOL What did they do about the Spams telephone calls Americans are receiving daily? None! Nahda! Nil! Why DHS cannot catch any of these criminals? America will be a much safer place if DHS can eliminate these Spam criminals. 
    I saw through the BS when DHS was created and I thought it was a bad idea then. Just an excuse for domestic spying. They're more concerned about American Enemies of the People (as W put it) than any threat from abroad. 
    DAalseth said:

    Trump built his career on misdirection, and once a grifter always a grifter. China is a threat, but Russia is as well. 


    This is the REAL threat posed by China.  It's not a military threat.   It's not a cyber threat.   It's economic.

    China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.

    The UK-based Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said China's "skilful" management of Covid-19 would boost its relative growth compared to the US and Europe in coming years.

    Meanwhile India is tipped to become the third largest economy by 2030.

    Although China was the first country hit by Covid-19, it controlled the disease through swift and extremely strict action, meaning it did not need to repeat economically paralysing lockdowns as European countries have done.

    The US economy, by contrast, has been hit hard by the world's worst coronavirus epidemic in terms of sheer numbers.


    US and Chinese economies 2010-2035 Gross domestic product in US trillions constant prices Chart shows Chinese and US economic output over time with China overtaking the US around 2028

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55454146

    You can argue with any one set of numbers.  But it's pretty well agreed throughout the world that's it's not IF China will assume the #1 role, but WHEN.

    The U.S has not only not done much economically for the last 20 years, it's been living off of borrowed and printed money.   It needs to step up its game.  The question is:   How does it do that?   We need a GOAT to lead the country, but all we've had over (soon to be) 4 administrations are average players.   At best.




    Long time ago Chinese elites once blamed western world as the cause of its perils. It is evident now the real enemy is Chinese itself. I think it is the same here in US. Democrats is practicing communism by doling out things to the lower class of people instead of encouraging them to work. And the human rightists are distracting Americans of its own domestic problems. 

    The advantage of a democracy is that it can right itself -- correct its direction -- if it starts going wrong (or goes too far wrong).
    The disadvantage is that conflicting ideologies and interests can keep it floundering like a ship out in a storm with a broken engine.

    Autocracies (whether socialist or capitalist) have the exact opposite:
    They have the advantage to react swiftly and effectively to the long term needs of the people and changing conditions. 
    Their disadvantage is, with bad leadership, they can sail off in a bad direction and there is simply no stopping them short of insurrection and revolution.

    China, since its communist takeover, has had the advantage of good leadership that has pulled its people out of poverty (and saved them from the virus).  That is shown in their economic development as it becomes the world's #1 economic power.  They are operating like a very large, well run corporation and its economic results prove it.   The question is:  how long will that good leadership last?   Because, once its good leadership is taken over by bad leaders, it has no way to right itself.

    But you say:  "Democrats is practicing communism...".  That statement confuses socialism with communism.   Communism merges a socialist economic model with an autocratic form of government.   Socialism can exist in either a democracy or an autocracy.   The United States since its inception has been a mix of socialism and capitalism -- and that has been part of its strength:  When Benjamin Franklin organized Community Fire Departments and Community Libraries and ran the government Post Office he was practicing socialism.   When he printed and sold his books and newspapers he was an entrepreneur practicing capitalism.   Today, the right wing in America has become so radicalized and hateful of its own government that any hint of government intervention is claimed to be a socialist (or worse, a communist) takeover.  So, while they keep the country paralyzed in the grips of the virus, China effectively eliminated the problem and is soaring ahead both in both its physical health as well as its economic health.

    US succeeded because of two things, freedom of speech and the scientific revolution. The scientific revolution spawned industrial revolution and ultimately the high tech digital information revolution we see in Apple. Socialist ideology is fair distribution of wealth while communists ideology is equal distribution of wealth regardless of everything. Democrats are focusing UBI, national health care, free university, and the old AA system. These are communism. In China there is none of these social benefits to Chinese. 

    No, Communism is a form of authoritarian government that uses socialism as an economic foundation.
    Socialism is an economic system.  Nothing more.

    The U.S. has always been a mix of socialism and capitalism.   Social Security -- which has existed for almost a 100 years is one example.
    The claims of Democrats being demonized as socialists or communists is merely a political smear campaign aimed at those who know no better.
    You are brainwashed by US ideology. Read Wikipedia about what communism is.
    Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a philosophicalsocialpolitical and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classesmoney[3][4] and the state.[5][6]

    My definition is very general. Communism seeks to share wealth equally in the society. It does not care if you contributed a lot. This is what many Democrats are interested to do including Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Andrew Yang. 

    Good that you are backing off of your claim that [all] Democrats want Communism to now only "Many" -- but then you can only name 3.   And the leader of those 3 was rejected by the Democrats for their nominee to be president -- so obviously they do not represent Democrats (as much as Trump wanted them to).   But, even then, you misrepresent even those three:  Sanders is not a communist.   He is a self-proclaimed "Democratic Socialist", not a communist.

    And your insinuation that all communists want to spread communism to the rest of the world is wildly out of date.   That died with Soviet Union back in the 1980's.   And further, your definition is incomplete in that it defines communism merely as a 100% socialist society.    While it is, that is only the economic side.   The other side is that it always includes an authoritarian government.

    You are confusing Socialism with Communism.  They have some common traits but are not the same.

    And further, you fail to recognize that every major, developed Democratic society is part capitalist and part socialist and instead you try to make it either/or.  The fact is, there are some things that private capital can do best and there are some things that government can do best.   A well run country knows that and takes advantage of that.   China did:  for the past 20-30 years they have been incorporating capitalism into their communist nation -- and for them it has worked well.   Likewise, 75 years ago most western developed, democratic nations switched to what some call "socialized medicine" and now they pay far less while getting far better healthcare than that which is available to Americans under their for-profit health care system.

    In the U.S the very socialist public school system has existed since the beginning.   Later we added public post offices, police, fire, libraries, sports and recreation centers, and then Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- which are all socialist concepts.   But, the current batch of ReTrumplicans have been brainwashed to believe that mere mention of the word "socialism" is a cardinal, mortal sin.
    No, I stick to my definition of communism. Sanders misunderstand what socialism is. 

    I did not insinuate communists spread communism to the rest of the world. It is a right wing propaganda originated in US as an excuse to launch cold war and led US into Korean War and Vietnamese War. The fact is a Korean and a Vietnamese learned communism from USSR and want to use it in their native country. The same history is true to Cuba. 

    I like to add one ingredient to our discussion, politics. Politics is a way to regulate daily activities of a group of people living together. In order to achieve communism politics has to be used. 

    Each country sets up a system to practice politics. US already has a political system long time ago. It is called democracy. I don't think it is one hundred per cent correct to say it is a democratic system. To prove that, you can look at the democracy in many third world countries. They are not the same as US and many are not successful including the one you talked about a lot here. 

    US political is already set up therefore communism cannot be successful easily. We use election and propositions to decide how to govern. Communist ideas can be voted down by the people proposition 16 that California rejected last month. And I think Democrats can understand the will of people and modify their agenda in the future. 

    One last thing, communism is not associated with a nation. It is advocated by political party. And political party can modify its platform. This is what Deng modified it and China as a nation followed in the last forty years. 

    While I don't agree with his ideas (too radical for me) I am pretty sure Bernie understands what both socialism and communism are.

    And no, unlike its current attempts with China, the U.S. did not trigger a cold war with the Soviet Union.   Their goal was world domination -- and they made no secret about it.   The first hint was maybe when Kruschev screamed at the U.S.:   "We will bury you!".  And it was justification for the disaster known as the Vietnam War;   They were doing all they could to spread their communist power throughout the world, nation by nation.   The choice the U.S. had was:   "Let them have South Vietnam or fight back?"  But, obviously not all Americans agreed with the decision to fight -- especially those would be chosen to do the fighting.  For myself, I had a college deferment until they switched to the lottery system at which point I came up 355 out of 365 -- I was never so happy to lose a lottery!

    And neither democracy nor communism are tied to any one nation -- or party.   They are both concepts and philosophies that can be accepted or rejected by any nation.
    I don't want to discuss further with you on this. Your understanding of history is not only superficial but out of order.  Kruschev screamed in UN meeting long after Korean war. And you got the first hint then? USSR wants to spread its dominance. It is not necessarily tied to communism. China stopped working with USSR. This is a strong proof that communists don't work together and don't have a common goal. Every nation has its own national interest. There is little exception. There is only common interest. This is what nations have to seek to work together peacefully. You don't have a clear mind and will mix things together. This is bad thinking process. 
  • Reply 30 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    DAalseth said:
    tzeshan said:
    DHS is trying to protect American data? LOL What did they do about the Spams telephone calls Americans are receiving daily? None! Nahda! Nil! Why DHS cannot catch any of these criminals? America will be a much safer place if DHS can eliminate these Spam criminals. 
    I saw through the BS when DHS was created and I thought it was a bad idea then. Just an excuse for domestic spying. They're more concerned about American Enemies of the People (as W put it) than any threat from abroad. 
    DAalseth said:

    Trump built his career on misdirection, and once a grifter always a grifter. China is a threat, but Russia is as well. 


    This is the REAL threat posed by China.  It's not a military threat.   It's not a cyber threat.   It's economic.

    China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.

    The UK-based Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said China's "skilful" management of Covid-19 would boost its relative growth compared to the US and Europe in coming years.

    Meanwhile India is tipped to become the third largest economy by 2030.

    Although China was the first country hit by Covid-19, it controlled the disease through swift and extremely strict action, meaning it did not need to repeat economically paralysing lockdowns as European countries have done.

    The US economy, by contrast, has been hit hard by the world's worst coronavirus epidemic in terms of sheer numbers.


    US and Chinese economies 2010-2035 Gross domestic product in US trillions constant prices Chart shows Chinese and US economic output over time with China overtaking the US around 2028

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55454146

    You can argue with any one set of numbers.  But it's pretty well agreed throughout the world that's it's not IF China will assume the #1 role, but WHEN.

    The U.S has not only not done much economically for the last 20 years, it's been living off of borrowed and printed money.   It needs to step up its game.  The question is:   How does it do that?   We need a GOAT to lead the country, but all we've had over (soon to be) 4 administrations are average players.   At best.




    Long time ago Chinese elites once blamed western world as the cause of its perils. It is evident now the real enemy is Chinese itself. I think it is the same here in US. Democrats is practicing communism by doling out things to the lower class of people instead of encouraging them to work. And the human rightists are distracting Americans of its own domestic problems. 

    The advantage of a democracy is that it can right itself -- correct its direction -- if it starts going wrong (or goes too far wrong).
    The disadvantage is that conflicting ideologies and interests can keep it floundering like a ship out in a storm with a broken engine.

    Autocracies (whether socialist or capitalist) have the exact opposite:
    They have the advantage to react swiftly and effectively to the long term needs of the people and changing conditions. 
    Their disadvantage is, with bad leadership, they can sail off in a bad direction and there is simply no stopping them short of insurrection and revolution.

    China, since its communist takeover, has had the advantage of good leadership that has pulled its people out of poverty (and saved them from the virus).  That is shown in their economic development as it becomes the world's #1 economic power.  They are operating like a very large, well run corporation and its economic results prove it.   The question is:  how long will that good leadership last?   Because, once its good leadership is taken over by bad leaders, it has no way to right itself.

    But you say:  "Democrats is practicing communism...".  That statement confuses socialism with communism.   Communism merges a socialist economic model with an autocratic form of government.   Socialism can exist in either a democracy or an autocracy.   The United States since its inception has been a mix of socialism and capitalism -- and that has been part of its strength:  When Benjamin Franklin organized Community Fire Departments and Community Libraries and ran the government Post Office he was practicing socialism.   When he printed and sold his books and newspapers he was an entrepreneur practicing capitalism.   Today, the right wing in America has become so radicalized and hateful of its own government that any hint of government intervention is claimed to be a socialist (or worse, a communist) takeover.  So, while they keep the country paralyzed in the grips of the virus, China effectively eliminated the problem and is soaring ahead both in both its physical health as well as its economic health.

    US succeeded because of two things, freedom of speech and the scientific revolution. The scientific revolution spawned industrial revolution and ultimately the high tech digital information revolution we see in Apple. Socialist ideology is fair distribution of wealth while communists ideology is equal distribution of wealth regardless of everything. Democrats are focusing UBI, national health care, free university, and the old AA system. These are communism. In China there is none of these social benefits to Chinese. 

    No, Communism is a form of authoritarian government that uses socialism as an economic foundation.
    Socialism is an economic system.  Nothing more.

    The U.S. has always been a mix of socialism and capitalism.   Social Security -- which has existed for almost a 100 years is one example.
    The claims of Democrats being demonized as socialists or communists is merely a political smear campaign aimed at those who know no better.
    You are brainwashed by US ideology. Read Wikipedia about what communism is.
    Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a philosophicalsocialpolitical and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classesmoney[3][4] and the state.[5][6]

    My definition is very general. Communism seeks to share wealth equally in the society. It does not care if you contributed a lot. This is what many Democrats are interested to do including Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Andrew Yang. 

    Good that you are backing off of your claim that [all] Democrats want Communism to now only "Many" -- but then you can only name 3.   And the leader of those 3 was rejected by the Democrats for their nominee to be president -- so obviously they do not represent Democrats (as much as Trump wanted them to).   But, even then, you misrepresent even those three:  Sanders is not a communist.   He is a self-proclaimed "Democratic Socialist", not a communist.

    And your insinuation that all communists want to spread communism to the rest of the world is wildly out of date.   That died with Soviet Union back in the 1980's.   And further, your definition is incomplete in that it defines communism merely as a 100% socialist society.    While it is, that is only the economic side.   The other side is that it always includes an authoritarian government.

    You are confusing Socialism with Communism.  They have some common traits but are not the same.

    And further, you fail to recognize that every major, developed Democratic society is part capitalist and part socialist and instead you try to make it either/or.  The fact is, there are some things that private capital can do best and there are some things that government can do best.   A well run country knows that and takes advantage of that.   China did:  for the past 20-30 years they have been incorporating capitalism into their communist nation -- and for them it has worked well.   Likewise, 75 years ago most western developed, democratic nations switched to what some call "socialized medicine" and now they pay far less while getting far better healthcare than that which is available to Americans under their for-profit health care system.

    In the U.S the very socialist public school system has existed since the beginning.   Later we added public post offices, police, fire, libraries, sports and recreation centers, and then Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- which are all socialist concepts.   But, the current batch of ReTrumplicans have been brainwashed to believe that mere mention of the word "socialism" is a cardinal, mortal sin.
    No, I stick to my definition of communism. Sanders misunderstand what socialism is. 

    I did not insinuate communists spread communism to the rest of the world. It is a right wing propaganda originated in US as an excuse to launch cold war and led US into Korean War and Vietnamese War. The fact is a Korean and a Vietnamese learned communism from USSR and want to use it in their native country. The same history is true to Cuba. 

    I like to add one ingredient to our discussion, politics. Politics is a way to regulate daily activities of a group of people living together. In order to achieve communism politics has to be used. 

    Each country sets up a system to practice politics. US already has a political system long time ago. It is called democracy. I don't think it is one hundred per cent correct to say it is a democratic system. To prove that, you can look at the democracy in many third world countries. They are not the same as US and many are not successful including the one you talked about a lot here. 

    US political is already set up therefore communism cannot be successful easily. We use election and propositions to decide how to govern. Communist ideas can be voted down by the people proposition 16 that California rejected last month. And I think Democrats can understand the will of people and modify their agenda in the future. 

    One last thing, communism is not associated with a nation. It is advocated by political party. And political party can modify its platform. This is what Deng modified it and China as a nation followed in the last forty years. 

    While I don't agree with his ideas (too radical for me) I am pretty sure Bernie understands what both socialism and communism are.

    And no, unlike its current attempts with China, the U.S. did not trigger a cold war with the Soviet Union.   Their goal was world domination -- and they made no secret about it.   The first hint was maybe when Kruschev screamed at the U.S.:   "We will bury you!".  And it was justification for the disaster known as the Vietnam War;   They were doing all they could to spread their communist power throughout the world, nation by nation.   The choice the U.S. had was:   "Let them have South Vietnam or fight back?"  But, obviously not all Americans agreed with the decision to fight -- especially those would be chosen to do the fighting.  For myself, I had a college deferment until they switched to the lottery system at which point I came up 355 out of 365 -- I was never so happy to lose a lottery!

    And neither democracy nor communism are tied to any one nation -- or party.   They are both concepts and philosophies that can be accepted or rejected by any nation.
    I don't want to discuss further with you on this. Your understanding of history is not only superficial but out of order.  Kruschev screamed in UN meeting long after Korean war. And you got the first hint then? USSR wants to spread its dominance. It is not necessarily tied to communism. China stopped working with USSR. This is a strong proof that communists don't work together and don't have a common goal. Every nation has its own national interest. There is little exception. There is only common interest. This is what nations have to seek to work together peacefully. You don't have a clear mind and will mix things together. This is bad thinking process. 

    I was responding to your comment "I did not insinuate communists spread communism to the rest of the world. It is a right wing propaganda originated in US as an excuse to launch cold war and led US into Korean War and Vietnamese War"  

    Back then the U.S. didn't have a "right wing" spreading propaganda.   Instead it was forced into a cold war with the Soviet Union who wanted to spread their ideology and their power & dominance throughout the world which, as I pointed out, they freely and openly admitted to.

  • Reply 31 of 32
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    DAalseth said:
    tzeshan said:
    DHS is trying to protect American data? LOL What did they do about the Spams telephone calls Americans are receiving daily? None! Nahda! Nil! Why DHS cannot catch any of these criminals? America will be a much safer place if DHS can eliminate these Spam criminals. 
    I saw through the BS when DHS was created and I thought it was a bad idea then. Just an excuse for domestic spying. They're more concerned about American Enemies of the People (as W put it) than any threat from abroad. 
    DAalseth said:

    Trump built his career on misdirection, and once a grifter always a grifter. China is a threat, but Russia is as well. 


    This is the REAL threat posed by China.  It's not a military threat.   It's not a cyber threat.   It's economic.

    China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.

    The UK-based Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said China's "skilful" management of Covid-19 would boost its relative growth compared to the US and Europe in coming years.

    Meanwhile India is tipped to become the third largest economy by 2030.

    Although China was the first country hit by Covid-19, it controlled the disease through swift and extremely strict action, meaning it did not need to repeat economically paralysing lockdowns as European countries have done.

    The US economy, by contrast, has been hit hard by the world's worst coronavirus epidemic in terms of sheer numbers.


    US and Chinese economies 2010-2035 Gross domestic product in US trillions constant prices Chart shows Chinese and US economic output over time with China overtaking the US around 2028

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55454146

    You can argue with any one set of numbers.  But it's pretty well agreed throughout the world that's it's not IF China will assume the #1 role, but WHEN.

    The U.S has not only not done much economically for the last 20 years, it's been living off of borrowed and printed money.   It needs to step up its game.  The question is:   How does it do that?   We need a GOAT to lead the country, but all we've had over (soon to be) 4 administrations are average players.   At best.




    Long time ago Chinese elites once blamed western world as the cause of its perils. It is evident now the real enemy is Chinese itself. I think it is the same here in US. Democrats is practicing communism by doling out things to the lower class of people instead of encouraging them to work. And the human rightists are distracting Americans of its own domestic problems. 

    The advantage of a democracy is that it can right itself -- correct its direction -- if it starts going wrong (or goes too far wrong).
    The disadvantage is that conflicting ideologies and interests can keep it floundering like a ship out in a storm with a broken engine.

    Autocracies (whether socialist or capitalist) have the exact opposite:
    They have the advantage to react swiftly and effectively to the long term needs of the people and changing conditions. 
    Their disadvantage is, with bad leadership, they can sail off in a bad direction and there is simply no stopping them short of insurrection and revolution.

    China, since its communist takeover, has had the advantage of good leadership that has pulled its people out of poverty (and saved them from the virus).  That is shown in their economic development as it becomes the world's #1 economic power.  They are operating like a very large, well run corporation and its economic results prove it.   The question is:  how long will that good leadership last?   Because, once its good leadership is taken over by bad leaders, it has no way to right itself.

    But you say:  "Democrats is practicing communism...".  That statement confuses socialism with communism.   Communism merges a socialist economic model with an autocratic form of government.   Socialism can exist in either a democracy or an autocracy.   The United States since its inception has been a mix of socialism and capitalism -- and that has been part of its strength:  When Benjamin Franklin organized Community Fire Departments and Community Libraries and ran the government Post Office he was practicing socialism.   When he printed and sold his books and newspapers he was an entrepreneur practicing capitalism.   Today, the right wing in America has become so radicalized and hateful of its own government that any hint of government intervention is claimed to be a socialist (or worse, a communist) takeover.  So, while they keep the country paralyzed in the grips of the virus, China effectively eliminated the problem and is soaring ahead both in both its physical health as well as its economic health.

    US succeeded because of two things, freedom of speech and the scientific revolution. The scientific revolution spawned industrial revolution and ultimately the high tech digital information revolution we see in Apple. Socialist ideology is fair distribution of wealth while communists ideology is equal distribution of wealth regardless of everything. Democrats are focusing UBI, national health care, free university, and the old AA system. These are communism. In China there is none of these social benefits to Chinese. 

    No, Communism is a form of authoritarian government that uses socialism as an economic foundation.
    Socialism is an economic system.  Nothing more.

    The U.S. has always been a mix of socialism and capitalism.   Social Security -- which has existed for almost a 100 years is one example.
    The claims of Democrats being demonized as socialists or communists is merely a political smear campaign aimed at those who know no better.
    You are brainwashed by US ideology. Read Wikipedia about what communism is.
    Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a philosophicalsocialpolitical and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classesmoney[3][4] and the state.[5][6]

    My definition is very general. Communism seeks to share wealth equally in the society. It does not care if you contributed a lot. This is what many Democrats are interested to do including Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Andrew Yang. 

    Good that you are backing off of your claim that [all] Democrats want Communism to now only "Many" -- but then you can only name 3.   And the leader of those 3 was rejected by the Democrats for their nominee to be president -- so obviously they do not represent Democrats (as much as Trump wanted them to).   But, even then, you misrepresent even those three:  Sanders is not a communist.   He is a self-proclaimed "Democratic Socialist", not a communist.

    And your insinuation that all communists want to spread communism to the rest of the world is wildly out of date.   That died with Soviet Union back in the 1980's.   And further, your definition is incomplete in that it defines communism merely as a 100% socialist society.    While it is, that is only the economic side.   The other side is that it always includes an authoritarian government.

    You are confusing Socialism with Communism.  They have some common traits but are not the same.

    And further, you fail to recognize that every major, developed Democratic society is part capitalist and part socialist and instead you try to make it either/or.  The fact is, there are some things that private capital can do best and there are some things that government can do best.   A well run country knows that and takes advantage of that.   China did:  for the past 20-30 years they have been incorporating capitalism into their communist nation -- and for them it has worked well.   Likewise, 75 years ago most western developed, democratic nations switched to what some call "socialized medicine" and now they pay far less while getting far better healthcare than that which is available to Americans under their for-profit health care system.

    In the U.S the very socialist public school system has existed since the beginning.   Later we added public post offices, police, fire, libraries, sports and recreation centers, and then Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- which are all socialist concepts.   But, the current batch of ReTrumplicans have been brainwashed to believe that mere mention of the word "socialism" is a cardinal, mortal sin.
    No, I stick to my definition of communism. Sanders misunderstand what socialism is. 

    I did not insinuate communists spread communism to the rest of the world. It is a right wing propaganda originated in US as an excuse to launch cold war and led US into Korean War and Vietnamese War. The fact is a Korean and a Vietnamese learned communism from USSR and want to use it in their native country. The same history is true to Cuba. 

    I like to add one ingredient to our discussion, politics. Politics is a way to regulate daily activities of a group of people living together. In order to achieve communism politics has to be used. 

    Each country sets up a system to practice politics. US already has a political system long time ago. It is called democracy. I don't think it is one hundred per cent correct to say it is a democratic system. To prove that, you can look at the democracy in many third world countries. They are not the same as US and many are not successful including the one you talked about a lot here. 

    US political is already set up therefore communism cannot be successful easily. We use election and propositions to decide how to govern. Communist ideas can be voted down by the people proposition 16 that California rejected last month. And I think Democrats can understand the will of people and modify their agenda in the future. 

    One last thing, communism is not associated with a nation. It is advocated by political party. And political party can modify its platform. This is what Deng modified it and China as a nation followed in the last forty years. 

    While I don't agree with his ideas (too radical for me) I am pretty sure Bernie understands what both socialism and communism are.

    And no, unlike its current attempts with China, the U.S. did not trigger a cold war with the Soviet Union.   Their goal was world domination -- and they made no secret about it.   The first hint was maybe when Kruschev screamed at the U.S.:   "We will bury you!".  And it was justification for the disaster known as the Vietnam War;   They were doing all they could to spread their communist power throughout the world, nation by nation.   The choice the U.S. had was:   "Let them have South Vietnam or fight back?"  But, obviously not all Americans agreed with the decision to fight -- especially those would be chosen to do the fighting.  For myself, I had a college deferment until they switched to the lottery system at which point I came up 355 out of 365 -- I was never so happy to lose a lottery!

    And neither democracy nor communism are tied to any one nation -- or party.   They are both concepts and philosophies that can be accepted or rejected by any nation.
    I don't want to discuss further with you on this. Your understanding of history is not only superficial but out of order.  Kruschev screamed in UN meeting long after Korean war. And you got the first hint then? USSR wants to spread its dominance. It is not necessarily tied to communism. China stopped working with USSR. This is a strong proof that communists don't work together and don't have a common goal. Every nation has its own national interest. There is little exception. There is only common interest. This is what nations have to seek to work together peacefully. You don't have a clear mind and will mix things together. This is bad thinking process. 

    I was responding to your comment "I did not insinuate communists spread communism to the rest of the world. It is a right wing propaganda originated in US as an excuse to launch cold war and led US into Korean War and Vietnamese War"  

    Back then the U.S. didn't have a "right wing" spreading propaganda.   Instead it was forced into a cold war with the Soviet Union who wanted to spread their ideology and their power & dominance throughout the world which, as I pointed out, they freely and openly admitted to.

    I just ask you one more thing. Have you read the history from the other side? I have read both sides. I am confident in my understanding of history. 
  • Reply 32 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    tzeshan said:
    DAalseth said:
    tzeshan said:
    DHS is trying to protect American data? LOL What did they do about the Spams telephone calls Americans are receiving daily? None! Nahda! Nil! Why DHS cannot catch any of these criminals? America will be a much safer place if DHS can eliminate these Spam criminals. 
    I saw through the BS when DHS was created and I thought it was a bad idea then. Just an excuse for domestic spying. They're more concerned about American Enemies of the People (as W put it) than any threat from abroad. 
    DAalseth said:

    Trump built his career on misdirection, and once a grifter always a grifter. China is a threat, but Russia is as well. 


    This is the REAL threat posed by China.  It's not a military threat.   It's not a cyber threat.   It's economic.

    China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.

    The UK-based Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said China's "skilful" management of Covid-19 would boost its relative growth compared to the US and Europe in coming years.

    Meanwhile India is tipped to become the third largest economy by 2030.

    Although China was the first country hit by Covid-19, it controlled the disease through swift and extremely strict action, meaning it did not need to repeat economically paralysing lockdowns as European countries have done.

    The US economy, by contrast, has been hit hard by the world's worst coronavirus epidemic in terms of sheer numbers.


    US and Chinese economies 2010-2035 Gross domestic product in US trillions constant prices Chart shows Chinese and US economic output over time with China overtaking the US around 2028

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55454146

    You can argue with any one set of numbers.  But it's pretty well agreed throughout the world that's it's not IF China will assume the #1 role, but WHEN.

    The U.S has not only not done much economically for the last 20 years, it's been living off of borrowed and printed money.   It needs to step up its game.  The question is:   How does it do that?   We need a GOAT to lead the country, but all we've had over (soon to be) 4 administrations are average players.   At best.




    Long time ago Chinese elites once blamed western world as the cause of its perils. It is evident now the real enemy is Chinese itself. I think it is the same here in US. Democrats is practicing communism by doling out things to the lower class of people instead of encouraging them to work. And the human rightists are distracting Americans of its own domestic problems. 

    The advantage of a democracy is that it can right itself -- correct its direction -- if it starts going wrong (or goes too far wrong).
    The disadvantage is that conflicting ideologies and interests can keep it floundering like a ship out in a storm with a broken engine.

    Autocracies (whether socialist or capitalist) have the exact opposite:
    They have the advantage to react swiftly and effectively to the long term needs of the people and changing conditions. 
    Their disadvantage is, with bad leadership, they can sail off in a bad direction and there is simply no stopping them short of insurrection and revolution.

    China, since its communist takeover, has had the advantage of good leadership that has pulled its people out of poverty (and saved them from the virus).  That is shown in their economic development as it becomes the world's #1 economic power.  They are operating like a very large, well run corporation and its economic results prove it.   The question is:  how long will that good leadership last?   Because, once its good leadership is taken over by bad leaders, it has no way to right itself.

    But you say:  "Democrats is practicing communism...".  That statement confuses socialism with communism.   Communism merges a socialist economic model with an autocratic form of government.   Socialism can exist in either a democracy or an autocracy.   The United States since its inception has been a mix of socialism and capitalism -- and that has been part of its strength:  When Benjamin Franklin organized Community Fire Departments and Community Libraries and ran the government Post Office he was practicing socialism.   When he printed and sold his books and newspapers he was an entrepreneur practicing capitalism.   Today, the right wing in America has become so radicalized and hateful of its own government that any hint of government intervention is claimed to be a socialist (or worse, a communist) takeover.  So, while they keep the country paralyzed in the grips of the virus, China effectively eliminated the problem and is soaring ahead both in both its physical health as well as its economic health.

    US succeeded because of two things, freedom of speech and the scientific revolution. The scientific revolution spawned industrial revolution and ultimately the high tech digital information revolution we see in Apple. Socialist ideology is fair distribution of wealth while communists ideology is equal distribution of wealth regardless of everything. Democrats are focusing UBI, national health care, free university, and the old AA system. These are communism. In China there is none of these social benefits to Chinese. 

    No, Communism is a form of authoritarian government that uses socialism as an economic foundation.
    Socialism is an economic system.  Nothing more.

    The U.S. has always been a mix of socialism and capitalism.   Social Security -- which has existed for almost a 100 years is one example.
    The claims of Democrats being demonized as socialists or communists is merely a political smear campaign aimed at those who know no better.
    You are brainwashed by US ideology. Read Wikipedia about what communism is.
    Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a philosophicalsocialpolitical and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classesmoney[3][4] and the state.[5][6]

    My definition is very general. Communism seeks to share wealth equally in the society. It does not care if you contributed a lot. This is what many Democrats are interested to do including Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Andrew Yang. 

    Good that you are backing off of your claim that [all] Democrats want Communism to now only "Many" -- but then you can only name 3.   And the leader of those 3 was rejected by the Democrats for their nominee to be president -- so obviously they do not represent Democrats (as much as Trump wanted them to).   But, even then, you misrepresent even those three:  Sanders is not a communist.   He is a self-proclaimed "Democratic Socialist", not a communist.

    And your insinuation that all communists want to spread communism to the rest of the world is wildly out of date.   That died with Soviet Union back in the 1980's.   And further, your definition is incomplete in that it defines communism merely as a 100% socialist society.    While it is, that is only the economic side.   The other side is that it always includes an authoritarian government.

    You are confusing Socialism with Communism.  They have some common traits but are not the same.

    And further, you fail to recognize that every major, developed Democratic society is part capitalist and part socialist and instead you try to make it either/or.  The fact is, there are some things that private capital can do best and there are some things that government can do best.   A well run country knows that and takes advantage of that.   China did:  for the past 20-30 years they have been incorporating capitalism into their communist nation -- and for them it has worked well.   Likewise, 75 years ago most western developed, democratic nations switched to what some call "socialized medicine" and now they pay far less while getting far better healthcare than that which is available to Americans under their for-profit health care system.

    In the U.S the very socialist public school system has existed since the beginning.   Later we added public post offices, police, fire, libraries, sports and recreation centers, and then Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- which are all socialist concepts.   But, the current batch of ReTrumplicans have been brainwashed to believe that mere mention of the word "socialism" is a cardinal, mortal sin.
    No, I stick to my definition of communism. Sanders misunderstand what socialism is. 

    I did not insinuate communists spread communism to the rest of the world. It is a right wing propaganda originated in US as an excuse to launch cold war and led US into Korean War and Vietnamese War. The fact is a Korean and a Vietnamese learned communism from USSR and want to use it in their native country. The same history is true to Cuba. 

    I like to add one ingredient to our discussion, politics. Politics is a way to regulate daily activities of a group of people living together. In order to achieve communism politics has to be used. 

    Each country sets up a system to practice politics. US already has a political system long time ago. It is called democracy. I don't think it is one hundred per cent correct to say it is a democratic system. To prove that, you can look at the democracy in many third world countries. They are not the same as US and many are not successful including the one you talked about a lot here. 

    US political is already set up therefore communism cannot be successful easily. We use election and propositions to decide how to govern. Communist ideas can be voted down by the people proposition 16 that California rejected last month. And I think Democrats can understand the will of people and modify their agenda in the future. 

    One last thing, communism is not associated with a nation. It is advocated by political party. And political party can modify its platform. This is what Deng modified it and China as a nation followed in the last forty years. 

    While I don't agree with his ideas (too radical for me) I am pretty sure Bernie understands what both socialism and communism are.

    And no, unlike its current attempts with China, the U.S. did not trigger a cold war with the Soviet Union.   Their goal was world domination -- and they made no secret about it.   The first hint was maybe when Kruschev screamed at the U.S.:   "We will bury you!".  And it was justification for the disaster known as the Vietnam War;   They were doing all they could to spread their communist power throughout the world, nation by nation.   The choice the U.S. had was:   "Let them have South Vietnam or fight back?"  But, obviously not all Americans agreed with the decision to fight -- especially those would be chosen to do the fighting.  For myself, I had a college deferment until they switched to the lottery system at which point I came up 355 out of 365 -- I was never so happy to lose a lottery!

    And neither democracy nor communism are tied to any one nation -- or party.   They are both concepts and philosophies that can be accepted or rejected by any nation.
    I don't want to discuss further with you on this. Your understanding of history is not only superficial but out of order.  Kruschev screamed in UN meeting long after Korean war. And you got the first hint then? USSR wants to spread its dominance. It is not necessarily tied to communism. China stopped working with USSR. This is a strong proof that communists don't work together and don't have a common goal. Every nation has its own national interest. There is little exception. There is only common interest. This is what nations have to seek to work together peacefully. You don't have a clear mind and will mix things together. This is bad thinking process. 

    I was responding to your comment "I did not insinuate communists spread communism to the rest of the world. It is a right wing propaganda originated in US as an excuse to launch cold war and led US into Korean War and Vietnamese War"  

    Back then the U.S. didn't have a "right wing" spreading propaganda.   Instead it was forced into a cold war with the Soviet Union who wanted to spread their ideology and their power & dominance throughout the world which, as I pointed out, they freely and openly admitted to.

    I just ask you one more thing. Have you read the history from the other side? I have read both sides. I am confident in my understanding of history. 
    For the period that we're talking about, it is not history for me.   It's the period that I lived and grew up in.   Instead of having lock-down, active shooter drills at school we had air raid drills for a nuclear conflagration.

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