Well if you'd bother to click through and educate yourself you'd see that the author is a UK MP and is the president of a group that goes to some lengths to verify information.
To say that Saddam is not raping, torturing, ethnic cleansing and murdering is a form of neo-holocaust denial.
Your anti-american hatred does not serve you well in this situation.
I did click through before I had posted my reply, and had a very thorough read. Actually, I have been reading commentary on these reports all day. Frankly, I do believe these events occured.
If you'd bother to relax a bit, and realize that not everyone posts without reading the information that you provide links to, you'd see that you're not the only one who can hold an opinion.
For you to read anti-American hatred into my comment is a bit of a stretch on your part. The fact that I pointed out a single occurance in which the US government was caught in a lie does not make me anti-American. It also doesn't lessen the anger I feel towards anyone who would condone, or commit, such acts of torture and murder.
It does show me as healthily sceptical of any news that I hear, regardless of it's source.
Keep in mind that the author of the article, Ann Clwyd, is not only an MP, but also the Chairperson for INDICT, the group who have been investigating the genocide in Iraq. (INDICT Website) Normally this would set off warning bells for me, but because I spent the time to look into this group after I first heard the story today, I am comfortable reading an op-ed piece by a Member of Parliament and considering it to be valid news as well as being valid opinion.
The comment about the CIA was thrown in as a joke, but it's obvious that there aren't too many jokes with funny CIA punchlines. Mostly pathetic endings.
To equate my comments to holocaust denial (or 'neo-holocaust denial', whatever the hell that is) is downright ridiculous, and I'd take you to task over it if I thought it would have any effect. Unfortunately, you paint with a very wide brush, and seem to miss the fact that you go over the lines every now and then.
Rather than just post links to articles in the future, perhaps you should spend a few minutes writing your thoughts on the article and then provide the link. Although, I could be wrong, and other people are able to do all your thinking for you.
I have to say Scott, I'm with audiopollution here:
Quote:
Your anti-american hatred does not serve you well in this situation
You need to check whether or not someone hates America before saying that. To hate America is to be either terrorised by it or a terrorist. Since I am neither as the same is true for audiopollution, I feel you are shocked into supporting this war.
People are tortured in North America, they are raped in North America, they are terrorised in North America. This war will still blow the crap out of a lot of people or burn them to death...worse the amputated folks who will die in the street screaming from their limbs being blown off.
I won't ever say I am not at least a little pleased that Saddam will be destroyed (hopefully) but the human cost is huge and the world knows it. Thats where I stand.
Yes, and lets replace it with our own traditions of torturing prisoners to death! The plastic shredder is just too quick for our tastes, we like to beat them to near death, and then let them bleed to death.
Okay so if you did read it and do know the source why take the swipe at the US? Why not take a swipe at MI5? Well no we can't do that! They're not american!
Also it was not the CIA that had the report about the babies being tossed out of incubators in Kuwaiti hospitals. It was the Ambassador's daughter if I remember. I watched it on TeeVee when she testified before Congress. Also it may interest you to know that that bit of bullshit that Bush Sr. tossed around lead me to not vote for him the second time around.
Okay so if you did read it and do know the source why take the swipe at the US? Why not take a swipe at MI5? Well no we can't do that! They're not american!
Also it was not the CIA that had the report about the babies being tossed out of incubators in Kuwaiti hospitals. It was the Ambassador's daughter if I remember. I watched it on TeeVee when she testified before Congress. Also it may interest you to know that that bit of bullshit that Bush Sr. tossed around lead me to not vote for him the second time around.
Let's just clear up one thing first: An Ambassador is a Diplomat.
Who said we can't take a jab at MI5? (Bishopsgate, anyone?)
... but there you go again on your anti-American stance. Never ends does it? So single-minded.
The world is not out to get the US. I'm certainly not.
I already explained that the CIA line was a joke. Perhaps you missed that.
My point, in that last post, was that we should always view all news with some degree of scepticism. Objectivity is one of the most important things to possess, particularly in the time of War, when strictly controlled media releases are the only food for the senses. We shouldn't allow our only education to be that of cable news. The 'most trusted' news, my ass.
What do I see at the end of your post, though! Perhaps you do have a some redeeming qualities. (And before anyone jumps to conclusions, that's an anti-bullshit stance, not an anti-Republican stance.)
Please tell me, though, that you still carry with you the knowledge that everything is not always as it seems. I'd hate to think you'd forgotten after only a decade.
Comments
Originally posted by Scott
Well if you'd bother to click through and educate yourself you'd see that the author is a UK MP and is the president of a group that goes to some lengths to verify information.
To say that Saddam is not raping, torturing, ethnic cleansing and murdering is a form of neo-holocaust denial.
Your anti-american hatred does not serve you well in this situation.
I did click through before I had posted my reply, and had a very thorough read. Actually, I have been reading commentary on these reports all day. Frankly, I do believe these events occured.
If you'd bother to relax a bit, and realize that not everyone posts without reading the information that you provide links to, you'd see that you're not the only one who can hold an opinion.
For you to read anti-American hatred into my comment is a bit of a stretch on your part. The fact that I pointed out a single occurance in which the US government was caught in a lie does not make me anti-American. It also doesn't lessen the anger I feel towards anyone who would condone, or commit, such acts of torture and murder.
It does show me as healthily sceptical of any news that I hear, regardless of it's source.
Keep in mind that the author of the article, Ann Clwyd, is not only an MP, but also the Chairperson for INDICT, the group who have been investigating the genocide in Iraq. (INDICT Website) Normally this would set off warning bells for me, but because I spent the time to look into this group after I first heard the story today, I am comfortable reading an op-ed piece by a Member of Parliament and considering it to be valid news as well as being valid opinion.
The comment about the CIA was thrown in as a joke, but it's obvious that there aren't too many jokes with funny CIA punchlines. Mostly pathetic endings.
To equate my comments to holocaust denial (or 'neo-holocaust denial', whatever the hell that is) is downright ridiculous, and I'd take you to task over it if I thought it would have any effect. Unfortunately, you paint with a very wide brush, and seem to miss the fact that you go over the lines every now and then.
Rather than just post links to articles in the future, perhaps you should spend a few minutes writing your thoughts on the article and then provide the link. Although, I could be wrong, and other people are able to do all your thinking for you.
(edit to correct capitalisation of American)
Your anti-american hatred does not serve you well in this situation
You need to check whether or not someone hates America before saying that. To hate America is to be either terrorised by it or a terrorist. Since I am neither as the same is true for audiopollution, I feel you are shocked into supporting this war.
People are tortured in North America, they are raped in North America, they are terrorised in North America. This war will still blow the crap out of a lot of people or burn them to death...worse the amputated folks who will die in the street screaming from their limbs being blown off.
I won't ever say I am not at least a little pleased that Saddam will be destroyed (hopefully) but the human cost is huge and the world knows it. Thats where I stand.
Originally posted by bunge
Yes, and lets replace it with our own traditions of torturing prisoners to death! The plastic shredder is just too quick for our tastes, we like to beat them to near death, and then let them bleed to death.
Over the top, bunge.
Operation Impending Doom 2
Operation Desert Storm 2: The Sequel
Also it was not the CIA that had the report about the babies being tossed out of incubators in Kuwaiti hospitals. It was the Ambassador's daughter if I remember. I watched it on TeeVee when she testified before Congress. Also it may interest you to know that that bit of bullshit that Bush Sr. tossed around lead me to not vote for him the second time around.
...all I got...wait...
Operation I'mDaShit
...SADDAM SLAM II
...that's it.
Originally posted by Scott
Okay so if you did read it and do know the source why take the swipe at the US? Why not take a swipe at MI5? Well no we can't do that! They're not american!
Also it was not the CIA that had the report about the babies being tossed out of incubators in Kuwaiti hospitals. It was the Ambassador's daughter if I remember. I watched it on TeeVee when she testified before Congress. Also it may interest you to know that that bit of bullshit that Bush Sr. tossed around lead me to not vote for him the second time around.
Let's just clear up one thing first: An Ambassador is a Diplomat.
Who said we can't take a jab at MI5? (Bishopsgate, anyone?)
... but there you go again on your anti-American stance. Never ends does it? So single-minded.
The world is not out to get the US. I'm certainly not.
I already explained that the CIA line was a joke. Perhaps you missed that.
My point, in that last post, was that we should always view all news with some degree of scepticism. Objectivity is one of the most important things to possess, particularly in the time of War, when strictly controlled media releases are the only food for the senses. We shouldn't allow our only education to be that of cable news. The 'most trusted' news, my ass.
What do I see at the end of your post, though! Perhaps you do have a some redeeming qualities.
Please tell me, though, that you still carry with you the knowledge that everything is not always as it seems. I'd hate to think you'd forgotten after only a decade.
-or-
Hunting The Waqi Iraqi (< best said with an Elmer Fudd voice)
Originally posted by SDW2001
Over the top, bunge.
Sorry if the truth hurts.
Operation *insert o.t.t. patriotic term (with french spelling! oui!)*
Originally posted by AdamB
My choices:
"Operation Nukular Strategerie"
hehehe
Operation Wizard of Oz
\t(as in "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain")
Operation Unfinished Business
Operation NoKo Hypocrisy
Dubya Dubya III
Operation W (a - r)
but all these names are so... testosteronish
what if it's a girl?
Operation Thirsty Britneys
Operation Oil of Uday
Operation SUV
although now that i re-read the replies, there is a mythically unmentioned name nobody has tried yet
Operation Rumplestiltskin
The comment about the CIA was thrown in as a joke, but it's obvious that there aren't too many jokes with funny CIA punchlines.
CIA versus Castro? (At the CIA's expense, of course).
Gulf War II: Turbo?
Super Gulf War II?
Operation Evil Eliminator
Operation Baghdad Bitch-Slap
Operation F*ck the French
But seriously, I think it'll be something like...
Operation Free Iraq
Operation Liberty Storm
Operation New Beginning
Operation Iraqi Freedom
>>Operation Iraqi Freedom
>>Sounds cheesy.
We have a winner. Congratulations Fran441!
<gameshowvoice> Here's Johnny to tell you what you've won </gameshowvoice>