Apple follows the laws in China. China doesn’t care about their citizens and workers, they care about the country making money to keep the party in power.
Apple follows the laws in China. China doesn’t care about their citizens and workers, they care about the country making money to keep the party in power.
Man, do you know Chinese bought more new cars a year than US? China is the second largest market of Apple?
I’ll tell you what this means. It means it’s damn hard to change the world for the better. I don’t see too many others attempting to do so at the level of Apple’s efforts. I give the company credit for sticking it’s neck out there with a hard line on labor issues, knowing it’s going to get glanced by an ax often. But I guess some see the world in black and white terms; since Apple drew a hard line it should go out of business when that line is crossed. Maybe, just maybe, Apple thinks that continuing to ship products and book revenue and profits gives it more leverage than if it fell on its sword each of the many times one or another supplier decides to cheat the rules.
The counter-argument to that could of course be: If Apple really cares, why don't we see them invest in their own factories where they would be in complete control (including what jurisdiction they chose to place it in)?
Because it can really care and also make good business decisions? That would be my guess.
When Pharma companies outsource R&D to China they have monitors embedded into the site. This is necessary to ensure the work is done correctly and there is no fraud in generating data when developing molecules. Apple could use the same approach - have Apple personnel on site to monitor activity, identify issues as they occur as well as work on long term issues that take time to resolve. Apple already have engineers on site so they know how to do this. Even if the cost was in the hundreds of millions, the effect on the bottom line would be minimal.
This might be viable for the assembly facilities, where there’s a very large volume of work going on strictly on behalf of Apple. But it might not be viable for the close to 200 other suppliers who are manufacturing for Apple and for potentially many other customers. Surely it would send costs skyrocketing you install Apple personnel in the factory that makes the tiny screws used on tne bottom edge of the iPhone, as one example.
So what other manufacturers are you willing to walk away from in addition to Apple? Nearly all manufacturing worldwide happens in China now. We were in the market for a new vacuum cleaner and I read the list of American brands, almost all of which have moved or are going to move manufacturing to China.
So don't you think you’re being hypocritical by singling out Apple for abandonment? As I said in another post, neither you nor anyone else is going to walk away from Apple because you have no other manufacturer to go to. All you are going to do is cluck your tongue, shake your head, and continue to buy Chinese manufactured goods.
Oh and the vast majority of prescription drugs are manufactured in and imported from China. Will you be walking away from your life-sustaining drug too?
You post brings up a good point. A lot of folks seem to be castigating Apple not because they aren’t doing what they feel is enough, because if that were the case they have to be shouting even louder about the many many companies manufacturing in China that are doing far less. They are castigating Apple for setting a very high bar and not quite clearing it. While others just say nothing and shamelessly walk under the bar.
So what other manufacturers are you willing to walk away from in addition to Apple? Nearly all manufacturing worldwide happens in China now. We were in the market for a new vacuum cleaner and I read the list of American brands, almost all of which have moved or are going to move manufacturing to China.
So don't you think you’re being hypocritical by singling out Apple for abandonment? As I said in another post, neither you nor anyone else is going to walk away from Apple because you have no other manufacturer to go to. All you are going to do is cluck your tongue, shake your head, and continue to buy Chinese manufactured goods.
Oh and the vast majority of prescription drugs are manufactured in and imported from China. Will you be walking away from your life-sustaining drug too?
You post brings up a good point. A lot of folks seem to be castigating Apple not because they aren’t doing what they feel is enough, because if that were the case they have to be shouting even louder about the many many companies manufacturing in China that are doing far less. They are castigating Apple for setting a very high bar and not quite clearing it. While others just say nothing and shamelessly walk under the bar.
For me this is like when I for ethical reasons started to go vegan…
I had no problems with that I for a number of reasons in all kinds of situations had to deviate from a vegan lifestyle, sometimes just because I was really craving a meat based product that I loved and had to keep my mood up for an event; or I bought the occasional piece of clothing with a leather detail (that I just removed and threw away).
Today I don't compromise when it comes to most things; but I sometimes buy chocolate with a bit of milk in it, and occasionally I give in and have a pizza with regular cheese. So still not completely vegan.
Is it perfect (as compared with what I would prefer)? Hell no! Is it better than if I hadn't tried at all? YES!!
Phasing out Chinese made products from my life won't be easy, and I'm lazily deep into the Apple ecosystem; but if I don't start with the mentality of me (indirectly) supporting these things being wrong, then I will never change. So that's how I approach things. And if I'm choosing between two almost equal products I will go with the one most in line with my moral compass. So hopefully I will in the future see more and more locally produced alternatives to Apple's products.
But… yeah… if a company tries to gain the PR advantage of branding themselves as being "better" in some aspect, then I think they should be judged harsher by the public if they don't live up to their self-assigned standards. They can't do things like have a zero tolerance of underage workers, and then keep funnelling money into suppliers that repeatedly get caught having underage workers. Either straight up be a greedy ass and just refer to local labor laws and guidelines, or actually enforce what you say you stand for.
So what other manufacturers are you willing to walk away from in addition to Apple? Nearly all manufacturing worldwide happens in China now. We were in the market for a new vacuum cleaner and I read the list of American brands, almost all of which have moved or are going to move manufacturing to China.
So don't you think you’re being hypocritical by singling out Apple for abandonment? As I said in another post, neither you nor anyone else is going to walk away from Apple because you have no other manufacturer to go to. All you are going to do is cluck your tongue, shake your head, and continue to buy Chinese manufactured goods.
Oh and the vast majority of prescription drugs are manufactured in and imported from China. Will you be walking away from your life-sustaining drug too?
You post brings up a good point. A lot of folks seem to be castigating Apple not because they aren’t doing what they feel is enough, because if that were the case they have to be shouting even louder about the many many companies manufacturing in China that are doing far less. They are castigating Apple for setting a very high bar and not quite clearing it. While others just say nothing and shamelessly walk under the bar.
FWIW over the summer both Adidas and Lacoste stopped using any factories in China which are exploiting workers, particularly ones implicated in the mistreatment of the Uyghurs. Granted neither are on the level of Apple, but good to see Apple is not the only company who might decide to put human rights slotted above profits. Kudos to those two companies are in order..
So what other manufacturers are you willing to walk away from in addition to Apple? Nearly all manufacturing worldwide happens in China now. We were in the market for a new vacuum cleaner and I read the list of American brands, almost all of which have moved or are going to move manufacturing to China.
So don't you think you’re being hypocritical by singling out Apple for abandonment? As I said in another post, neither you nor anyone else is going to walk away from Apple because you have no other manufacturer to go to. All you are going to do is cluck your tongue, shake your head, and continue to buy Chinese manufactured goods.
Oh and the vast majority of prescription drugs are manufactured in and imported from China. Will you be walking away from your life-sustaining drug too?
You post brings up a good point. A lot of folks seem to be castigating Apple not because they aren’t doing what they feel is enough, because if that were the case they have to be shouting even louder about the many many companies manufacturing in China that are doing far less. They are castigating Apple for setting a very high bar and not quite clearing it. While others just say nothing and shamelessly walk under the bar.
For me this is like when I for ethical reasons started to go vegan…
I had no problems with that I for a number of reasons in all kinds of situations had to deviate from a vegan lifestyle, sometimes just because I was really craving a meat based product that I loved and had to keep my mood up for an event; or I bought the occasional piece of clothing with a leather detail (that I just removed and threw away).
Today I don't compromise when it comes to most things; but I sometimes buy chocolate with a bit of milk in it, and occasionally I give in and have a pizza with regular cheese. So still not completely vegan.
Is it perfect (as compared with what I would prefer)? Hell no! Is it better than if I hadn't tried at all? YES!!
Phasing out Chinese made products from my life won't be easy, and I'm lazily deep into the Apple ecosystem; but if I don't start with the mentality of me (indirectly) supporting these things being wrong, then I will never change. So that's how I approach things. And if I'm choosing between two almost equal products I will go with the one most in line with my moral compass. So hopefully I will in the future see more and more locally produced alternatives to Apple's products.
But… yeah… if a company tries to gain the PR advantage of branding themselves as being "better" in some aspect, then I think they should be judged harsher by the public if they don't live up to their self-assigned standards. They can't do things like have a zero tolerance of underage workers, and then keep funnelling money into suppliers that repeatedly get caught having underage workers. Either straight up be a greedy ass and just refer to local labor laws and guidelines, or actually enforce what you say you stand for.
Congrats on going Vegan -- it is not easy in our society as you are constantly bombarded with appeals to eat animals and animal products. It's also extremely healthy (unless you are a junk food vegan living on processed and refined foods).
But, why would you phase China made products out of your life? -- From a personal standpoint that sets you up to pay more for lower quality products.
-- From a humanity standpoint it impairss what China has done for their people: They took them from poverty to a thriving middle class in about 20 years. The analogy would be American workers in 1880 working 12 hour days, 6 days a week for barely sustainable wages and under horrendous, dangerous conditions. But then, 50 years later emerging into the beginnings of a stable middle class.
... Cadillac will soon introduce their first fully electric car -- in China. Why would they do that if the people were so abused and oppressed as the China Haters pretend?
When Pharma companies outsource R&D to China they have monitors embedded into the site. This is necessary to ensure the work is done correctly and there is no fraud in generating data when developing molecules. Apple could use the same approach - have Apple personnel on site to monitor activity, identify issues as they occur as well as work on long term issues that take time to resolve. Apple already have engineers on site so they know how to do this. Even if the cost was in the hundreds of millions, the effect on the bottom line would be minimal.
This might be viable for the assembly facilities, where there’s a very large volume of work going on strictly on behalf of Apple. But it might not be viable for the close to 200 other suppliers who are manufacturing for Apple and for potentially many other customers. Surely it would send costs skyrocketing you install Apple personnel in the factory that makes the tiny screws used on tne bottom edge of the iPhone, as one example.
You’re right on the money here. The way businesses operate in China is like a shell game. Work is subcontracted out to dozens or hundreds of other suppliers who often completely ignore Western compliance standards. I saw this game myself when I used to go there.
One would never know that listening to the haters, the ideologues and propagandists.....
THEN we get to comparing conditions in other countries (including the U.S.) to those of China and the whole thing devolves into a ball of grey mush with no clear answers.
But, the haters, the ideologues and the propagandists will persist in trying paint everything as black versus white, right versus wrong.... It's just how they operate.
No. Wrong. This is strictly money based. Apple is all about $$$$$$$$$.
One would never know that listening to the haters, the ideologues and propagandists.....
THEN we get to comparing conditions in other countries (including the U.S.) to those of China and the whole thing devolves into a ball of grey mush with no clear answers.
But, the haters, the ideologues and the propagandists will persist in trying paint everything as black versus white, right versus wrong.... It's just how they operate.
No. Wrong. This is strictly money based. Apple is all about $$$$$$$$$.
So, because they make lots of money from selling great products that people love, they're "all about $"? Umm! I didn't know that.
Apple follows the laws in China. China doesn’t care about their citizens and workers, they care about the country making money to keep the party in power.
Man, do you know Chinese bought more new cars a year than US? China is the second largest market of Apple?
Apple follows the laws in China. China doesn’t care about their citizens and workers, they care about the country making money to keep the party in power.
Man, do you know Chinese bought more new cars a year than US? China is the second largest market of Apple?
Says the CCP apparatchik here on AI.
So only CCP is telling the truth? LOL See CCP propaganda below. LOL
Comments
I had no problems with that I for a number of reasons in all kinds of situations had to deviate from a vegan lifestyle, sometimes just because I was really craving a meat based product that I loved and had to keep my mood up for an event; or I bought the occasional piece of clothing with a leather detail (that I just removed and threw away).
Today I don't compromise when it comes to most things; but I sometimes buy chocolate with a bit of milk in it, and occasionally I give in and have a pizza with regular cheese. So still not completely vegan.
Is it perfect (as compared with what I would prefer)? Hell no! Is it better than if I hadn't tried at all? YES!!
Phasing out Chinese made products from my life won't be easy, and I'm lazily deep into the Apple ecosystem; but if I don't start with the mentality of me (indirectly) supporting these things being wrong, then I will never change. So that's how I approach things. And if I'm choosing between two almost equal products I will go with the one most in line with my moral compass. So hopefully I will in the future see more and more locally produced alternatives to Apple's products.
But… yeah… if a company tries to gain the PR advantage of branding themselves as being "better" in some aspect, then I think they should be judged harsher by the public if they don't live up to their self-assigned standards. They can't do things like have a zero tolerance of underage workers, and then keep funnelling money into suppliers that repeatedly get caught having underage workers. Either straight up be a greedy ass and just refer to local labor laws and guidelines, or actually enforce what you say you stand for.
-- From a personal standpoint that sets you up to pay more for lower quality products.
So, because they make lots of money from selling great products that people love, they're "all about $"? Umm! I didn't know that.
See CCP propaganda below. LOL
So who do you buy from, and what's their manufacturing like?
Do you even care if it isn't Apple? Does anyone?