For the life of me, I can’t understand why anyone is assuming that a return of MagSafe means a return of either of the old MagSafe connectors when we know for a fact that neither of them are used in MagSafe on iPhones. Indeed, given the sequence in time, I submit that it’s vastly more likely that this leak is more likely to mean some iteration of the current MagSafe tech, which is consistent with a recent Apple patent that showed MagSafe charging pads in the palm rests for charging an iPhone.
Because the reports have stated, "The MagSafe connector in the new MacBook Pro models will have a similar shape to that of MagSafe connectors in Macs of old." MagSafe in the iPhone is NOT a MagSafe connector. It is inductive charging. The report also says the MagSafe port in the new MacBook Pro would be able to charge faster, something the MagSafe in the iPhone CANNOT do. Just because Apple files a patent, does not mean they actually introduce it. Charging a phone on your palm rest is ridiculous because how are you supposed to use the MacBook when your phone is sitting on the palm rest?
So you genuinely think Apple is going backwards to a connector they discarded? When, in Apple’s entire history, have they ever done so? What makes you give this report any credence whatsoever? Your answer to my initial question amounts to because the report said so; but gives zero explanation for your investment of belief in the report.
No one is 100% assuming the report is true. We're just talking about the report because the report exists, and presents a possibility that some of us hope is true.
A crazy number of folks in this forum and others, actually. I scrolled through some of my old posts just now. I see forum member Melgross in Nov. 2019 said this:
'the butterfly keyboard was innovation and progress. Don’t forget that. It just didn’t work as well as hoped. It’s called; “Back to the drawing board.”'
So basically he defended it even after Apple decided to kill it.
Also in Nov. 2019, forum member Urahara said this:
"I love 💕 butterfly 🦋 keyboard, and especially its travel distance. I wish it had even a bit less force. I fly on this keyboard. It's such a great joy to type on it."
In that same thread, forum member Fastasleep said:
"I have always been just fine with reduced travel and whatever, and overall believe this is my favorite Mac keyboard to date"
Rayz2016 claimed in July 2018 that by hating the Butterfly keyboard and asking for Apple to go back to a keyboard with more tactile feedback that I was essentially asking for, in his words:
"...a case as large as a tank and a keyboard with travel that goes to the centre of the earth."
There are many posts like that defending the Butterfly keyboard. It's not so much they genuinely loved the keyboard, though. It's more of defending anything that Apple comes out with at any given time. That's what I call "Cupertino worship." I have loved Macs since 1984, but I don't worship everything Apple comes out with. I evaluate every feature on its own and determine whether I like it or not. You'd think that's the way it should be for all of us, but many Apple fans see things as "fixed in stone" and never changing. They tend to argue against folks like me who occasionally dislike something Apple creates. They dislike strong voices of dissent which think outside the box. They sometimes falsely claim "it won't ever go back to the way it was before." Of course, that is just plain wrong, especially when Apple allows us to submit feedback and have an impact on future Macs. The SD card slot seems to be another example of that. I'm thankful for that. But I am guessing it won't just be going back to a slow UHS-I slot. They might just give us SD Express, which is a removable SSD, basically. It's something to be excited about.
They are working toward creating the computer I want. I hope they go the whole way. I want 14” MBP, USB-C, USB-A, SD Card, MagSafe. headphone jack and a wedge design like a slightly thicker MBA with a fan.
For the life of me, I can’t understand why anyone is assuming that a return of MagSafe means a return of either of the old MagSafe connectors when we know for a fact that neither of them are used in MagSafe on iPhones. Indeed, given the sequence in time, I submit that it’s vastly more likely that this leak is more likely to mean some iteration of the current MagSafe tech, which is consistent with a recent Apple patent that showed MagSafe charging pads in the palm rests for charging an iPhone.
Because the reports have stated, "The MagSafe connector in the new MacBook Pro models will have a similar shape to that of MagSafe connectors in Macs of old." MagSafe in the iPhone is NOT a MagSafe connector. It is inductive charging. The report also says the MagSafe port in the new MacBook Pro would be able to charge faster, something the MagSafe in the iPhone CANNOT do. Just because Apple files a patent, does not mean they actually introduce it. Charging a phone on your palm rest is ridiculous because how are you supposed to use the MacBook when your phone is sitting on the palm rest?
So you genuinely think Apple is going backwards to a connector they discarded? When, in Apple’s entire history, have they ever done so? What makes you give this report any credence whatsoever? Your answer to my initial question amounts to because the report said so; but gives zero explanation for your investment of belief in the report.
The MacBooks should retain the USB -C only status, but with the line addition of an SD card slot. A USB-C connector that has a magnetically detachable end would be brilliant.
Nothing really has to change other than the cable itself. Would be backward compatible also.
Products like this exist already. Apple just needs to make them a standard part of their MacBook adapters.
Rayz2016 claimed in July 2018 that by hating the Butterfly keyboard and asking for Apple to go back to a keyboard with more tactile feedback that I was essentially asking for, in his words: "...a case as large as a tank and a keyboard with travel that goes to the centre of the earth."
Ah, the good old days …
Yup, the butterfly keyboard is still the fastest keyboard I’ve ever used. Great spacing, and a feather light action. Never had a problem with it, but I suspect that’s because I can touch type and wash my hands a lot.
Was it as unreliable as folk said it was? Not according to AI. The failure rates were pretty much the same as previous Apple keyboards. I suspect the problem was that a few high profile bloggers hated it, a few more people jumped on the bandwagon, and it kind of spread from there.
Sorry to see it go, but at the same time, I don’t think it’s wise for Apple to always fight battles in the press when the social media war has already been lost, certainly not for a keyboard.
“A keyboard with travel that goes to the centre of the earth”
I haven’t typed much on the newer machines, but i really like the clearly defined clickiness of my old one and MUCH prefer it over the keyboards that came before. Always have.
Rayz2016 claimed in July 2018 that by hating the Butterfly keyboard and asking for Apple to go back to a keyboard with more tactile feedback that I was essentially asking for, in his words: "...a case as large as a tank and a keyboard with travel that goes to the centre of the earth."
Ah, the good old days …
Yup, the butterfly keyboard is still the fastest keyboard I’ve ever used. Great spacing, and a feather light action. Never had a problem with it, but I suspect that’s because I can touch type and wash my hands a lot.
Was it as unreliable as folk said it was? Not according to AI. The failure rates were pretty much the same as previous Apple keyboards. I suspect the problem was that a few high profile bloggers hated it, a few more people jumped on the bandwagon, and it kind of spread from there.
Sorry to see it go, but at the same time, I don’t think it’s wise for Apple to always fight battles in the press when the social media war has already been lost, certainly not for a keyboard.
“A keyboard with travel that goes to the centre of the earth”
Heh. Talk about overcooking …
Only Apple knows the true numbers but Apple wouldn't have switched designs due to bad press if the keyboard truly was performing better than the one it replaced. They would have defended it and provided the data. In that way they would change the bad press.
The caveat to that would be if the bad press was affecting sales and that didn't seem to be the case.
The keyboard wasn't sitting alone in this issue though. It was directly (and very expensively) linked to the top casing and the battery, making for very expensive out of warranty (and repair extension) repairs.
The keyboards are time bombs. You may be perfectly happy with how it performs in a typing context today but that isn't the question with regards to changing designs.
The question was how it performed with regards to reliability and we've read comments from users here who say they used the keyboard in spotless environments but still had multiple problems.
IMO, Apple saw it wasn't reliable in design terms (hence the repair extension programme not being limited to a batch part or manufacturing issue) and decided to kill the design.
Now, had they designed the butterfly to be spillproof and seperate from the rest of the machine from the outset, maybe none of this would have ever happened.
If switching out a keyboard requires such expense, someone wasn't thinking clearly when they designed it (and if they were, then they didn't care about the impact on the user).
Rayz2016 claimed in July 2018 that by hating the Butterfly keyboard and asking for Apple to go back to a keyboard with more tactile feedback that I was essentially asking for, in his words: "...a case as large as a tank and a keyboard with travel that goes to the centre of the earth."
Ah, the good old days …
Yup, the butterfly keyboard is still the fastest keyboard I’ve ever used. Great spacing, and a feather light action. Never had a problem with it, but I suspect that’s because I can touch type and wash my hands a lot.
Was it as unreliable as folk said it was? Not according to AI. The failure rates were pretty much the same as previous Apple keyboards. I suspect the problem was that a few high profile bloggers hated it, a few more people jumped on the bandwagon, and it kind of spread from there.
Sorry to see it go, but at the same time, I don’t think it’s wise for Apple to always fight battles in the press when the social media war has already been lost, certainly not for a keyboard.
“A keyboard with travel that goes to the centre of the earth”
Heh. Talk about overcooking …
Only Apple knows the true numbers but Apple wouldn't have switched designs due to bad press if the keyboard truly was performing better than the one it replaced. They would have defended it and provided the data. In that way they would change the bad press.
The caveat to that would be if the bad press was affecting sales and that didn't seem to be the case.
The keyboard wasn't sitting alone in this issue though. It was directly (and very expensively) linked to the top casing and the battery, making for very expensive out of warranty (and repair extension) repairs.
The keyboards are time bombs. You may be perfectly happy with how it performs in a typing context today but that isn't the question with regards to changing designs.
The question was how it performed with regards to reliability and we've read comments from users here who say they used the keyboard in spotless environments but still had multiple problems.
IMO, Apple saw it wasn't reliable in design terms (hence the repair extension programme not being limited to a batch part or manufacturing issue) and decided to kill the design.
Now, had they designed the butterfly to be spillproof and seperate from the rest of the machine from the outset, maybe none of this would have ever happened.
If switching out a keyboard requires such expense, someone wasn't thinking clearly when they designed it (and if they were, then they didn't care about the impact on the user).
The data comes from both Apple Genius Bars and from Apple-authorized third-party repair shops. These are the people who see and fix, or replace, the butterfly keyboards and do so all the time. […] For comparison, we took the data for the MacBook Pro models that were on sale in 2014 and 2015, then looked at how many service events they had in their first year. That is, within one year of purchase, the number of machines that had problems which were dealt with by our sources. Comparing that to the first year of the butterfly keyboard, we saw roughly twice as many keyboard failures. It was still only a small proportion of issues that needed repair, but keyboards were brought back for fixing significantly more than before. That changed after 2016, though. It changed quite dramatically, with the data we collected over the 2018 and mid-2019 MacBook Pro returning to around the same levels as the vaunted 2012 through 2015 MacBook Pro models.
But in this case, as in the case with the battery drain on the iPhone, they chose that the best course of action was fix the publicity problem by binning the design.
They would have defended it and provided the data. In that way they would change the bad press.
Nope, they don't tend to do that, because one thing that Apple knows is that throwing figures at the problem doesn't change anything. They're not going to risk the whole 'brand reliability' thing just for a keyboard. Better to take the hit and walk away.
There was even a rumour last year that they were still working on the butterfly mechanism, but I doubt it. There's no way they can make that fly again with all the negative press attached to it. Better to stick with the old design until you perfect whatever comes next.
I just wish that Apple’s pricing structure was more affordable as compared to other laptops.
My current MBP is from 2016, the previous one is from 2012. Both are working very well and as fast as the day I got them. Sure I have done some repairs. Battery for the 2012 (paid) and screen replacement (free). Keyboard for the 2016 (free) which also include repalcing the battery, mouse pad and top surface).
At work we have replace our Lenovo laptops every 2 years. They slow down massively over time and bits fall off regularly.
I would rather pay 2K for a laptop that is going to last for 4+ years than have to deal with poorly made units and the mess that is windows. I'm sure you can get well made PCs but I bet they will be in the same price range as a Mac.
SD card slot would be a backwards move that I can’t see Apple taking.
Considering Apple is known to be for productivity and creative work, why would the inclusion of an SD card slot be backwards? So many devices today (cameras, audio recorders, home cameras, door cameras, game machines) use SD cards.
What would be backwards is if they only included a micro usb slot. It should be a full USH-II , UFS, SD Express compatible SD card slot
I hardly used the SD slot in my old iMac, so I am a bit bemused by its reintroduction. The best bit I guess it it means macs will no longer be so Ived and the engineers have a say in design again.
that said, would not an SD slot be a great secondary storage option for a MBP and one hell of a lot cheaper than Apple SSD prices? Imagine if it s a four channel PCIe bus able to handle the latest spec SD Express spec cards. 128Tb @985Mbps. That will do. (I believe latest spec is 3900Mbps on a PCIe 4.0 bus). Apple could actually be a first mover there.
Yes, I'm hoping it'll be an updated SD slot with up to date specs, at least USH-II compatible if not SD Express. Would be nice to put Time Machine backups on them as an option, especially on the go.
Rayz2016 claimed in July 2018 that by hating the Butterfly keyboard and asking for Apple to go back to a keyboard with more tactile feedback that I was essentially asking for, in his words: "...a case as large as a tank and a keyboard with travel that goes to the centre of the earth."
Ah, the good old days …
Yup, the butterfly keyboard is still the fastest keyboard I’ve ever used. Great spacing, and a feather light action. Never had a problem with it, but I suspect that’s because I can touch type and wash my hands a lot.
Was it as unreliable as folk said it was? Not according to AI. The failure rates were pretty much the same as previous Apple keyboards. I suspect the problem was that a few high profile bloggers hated it, a few more people jumped on the bandwagon, and it kind of spread from there.
Sorry to see it go, but at the same time, I don’t think it’s wise for Apple to always fight battles in the press when the social media war has already been lost, certainly not for a keyboard.
“A keyboard with travel that goes to the centre of the earth”
Heh. Talk about overcooking …
I had the butterfly keyboard on a 2018 13" MacBook Pro and I thought it was quite good. I was worried about the reported failures but I didn't experience any problems myself. I could type very fast on it with pretty good accuracy. Now I have the M1 MacBook Air (traded in the 2018 for it) and I think it is slightly better. It has the same stability of the keys and a slightly better key travel. I don't really notice any real difference in typing speed but it is slightly more comfortable I think. So I don't think keeping the butterfly keyboard to save a fraction of a mm is worth it but I do think the butterfly keyboard hate was overstated. I don't blame Apple for abandoning it though; it is easier to create a new keyboard that is practically the same and solves a PR problem.
Comments
'the butterfly keyboard was innovation and progress. Don’t forget that. It just didn’t work as well as hoped. It’s called; “Back to the drawing board.”'
So basically he defended it even after Apple decided to kill it.
Also in Nov. 2019, forum member Urahara said this:
"I love 💕 butterfly 🦋 keyboard, and especially its travel distance. I wish it had even a bit less force. I fly on this keyboard. It's such a great joy to type on it."
In that same thread, forum member Fastasleep said:
"I have always been just fine with reduced travel and whatever, and overall believe this is my favorite Mac keyboard to date"
"...a case as large as a tank and a keyboard with travel that goes to the centre of the earth."
There are many posts like that defending the Butterfly keyboard. It's not so much they genuinely loved the keyboard, though. It's more of defending anything that Apple comes out with at any given time. That's what I call "Cupertino worship." I have loved Macs since 1984, but I don't worship everything Apple comes out with. I evaluate every feature on its own and determine whether I like it or not. You'd think that's the way it should be for all of us, but many Apple fans see things as "fixed in stone" and never changing. They tend to argue against folks like me who occasionally dislike something Apple creates. They dislike strong voices of dissent which think outside the box. They sometimes falsely claim "it won't ever go back to the way it was before." Of course, that is just plain wrong, especially when Apple allows us to submit feedback and have an impact on future Macs. The SD card slot seems to be another example of that. I'm thankful for that. But I am guessing it won't just be going back to a slow UHS-I slot. They might just give us SD Express, which is a removable SSD, basically. It's something to be excited about.
Was it as unreliable as folk said it was? Not according to AI. The failure rates were pretty much the same as previous Apple keyboards. I suspect the problem was that a few high profile bloggers hated it, a few more people jumped on the bandwagon, and it kind of spread from there.
Heh. Talk about overcooking …
The caveat to that would be if the bad press was affecting sales and that didn't seem to be the case.
The keyboard wasn't sitting alone in this issue though. It was directly (and very expensively) linked to the top casing and the battery, making for very expensive out of warranty (and repair extension) repairs.
The keyboards are time bombs. You may be perfectly happy with how it performs in a typing context today but that isn't the question with regards to changing designs.
The question was how it performed with regards to reliability and we've read comments from users here who say they used the keyboard in spotless environments but still had multiple problems.
IMO, Apple saw it wasn't reliable in design terms (hence the repair extension programme not being limited to a batch part or manufacturing issue) and decided to kill the design.
Now, had they designed the butterfly to be spillproof and seperate from the rest of the machine from the outset, maybe none of this would have ever happened.
If switching out a keyboard requires such expense, someone wasn't thinking clearly when they designed it (and if they were, then they didn't care about the impact on the user).
Not so sure …
https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/05/05/initial-failures-of-apples-butterfly-keyboard-doomed-it-from-the-start
But in this case, as in the case with the battery drain on the iPhone, they chose that the best course of action was fix the publicity problem by binning the design.
Nope, they don't tend to do that, because one thing that Apple knows is that throwing figures at the problem doesn't change anything. They're not going to risk the whole 'brand reliability' thing just for a keyboard. Better to take the hit and walk away.
There was even a rumour last year that they were still working on the butterfly mechanism, but I doubt it. There's no way they can make that fly again with all the negative press attached to it. Better to stick with the old design until you perfect whatever comes next.
At work we have replace our Lenovo laptops every 2 years. They slow down massively over time and bits fall off regularly.
I would rather pay 2K for a laptop that is going to last for 4+ years than have to deal with poorly made units and the mess that is windows. I'm sure you can get well made PCs but I bet they will be in the same price range as a Mac.
What would be backwards is if they only included a micro usb slot. It should be a full USH-II , UFS, SD Express compatible SD card slot
Don’t expect your consumers to do that if you have a zero-tolerance policy 😂