Apple to hold $14 billion bond sale to take advantage of cheap borrowing costs

Posted:
in General Discussion edited February 2021
Apple plans to sell $14 billion worth of bonds, taking advantage of cheap borrowing costs to fund corporate operations like share buybacks.

Credit: SEC
Credit: SEC


The company plans to issue debt in six parts, with the longest offering being a 40-year security that will yield 95 basis points above Treasuries, Bloomberg reported on Monday. The preliminary filings for the bond sale also surfaced early Monday morning.

According to Bloomberg Barclays index data, average investment-grade companies will be able to borrow at a rate of 1.86% for roughly nine years, down from when Apple last offered a debt deal. Goldman Sachs Group, JPMorgan Chase, and Morgan Stanley and managing the bond sale.

Apple plans to use the proceeds for general corporate purposes the Cupertino tech giant plans, including stock buybacks and paying dividends to shareholders. The money could also be used for working capital, capital expenditures, repayment of debt, or acquisitions.

The new debt deals would mark the third time that it has tapped the market since May 2020. Apple issued bond sales of $8 billion in May, and another $5.5 billion bond sale in August.

Apple hoarded cash for years, but has recently switched strategies to reduce its net cash position. Mostly, that's been through payouts to shareholders.

Earlier in January, Apple reported quarterly revenue topping $100 billion for the first time. Its Q1 2021 results of $111.4 billion eclipsed its previous high of $91.8 billion and represented year-over-year growth of 21.4%.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 24
    XedXed Posts: 2,822member
    . . . . . .
    edited February 2021
  • Reply 2 of 24
    Apple currently has ~$110B in debt (incl commercial paper). This new issue will make it’s total debt ~$125B. That’s still a trivial 5.5% of the company’s market value of equity. It’s like a person with a million dollar net worth having $55,000 in debt. 

    Apple’s cash (including all of its marketable securities), at ~$190B, still dwarfs its total debt. 
    MacPro
  • Reply 3 of 24
    XedXed Posts: 2,822member
    Apple currently has ~$110B in debt (incl commercial paper). This new issue will make it’s total debt ~$125B. That’s still a trivial 5.5% of the company’s market value of equity. It’s like a person with a million dollar net worth having $55,000 in debt. 

    Apple’s cash (including all of its marketable securities), at ~$190B, still dwarfs its total debt. 
    This board has had many discussions about debt over the years. Often I've seen forum members claim that having debt of any kind means you're not responsible with your money when I'd easily argue that borrowing when interest rates are incredibly low is the most financially prudent thing you can do, even if feels uncomfortable having to pay something back that you can easily afford to pay for outright.
    Dogperson
  • Reply 4 of 24
    A funny thing about debt and credit, both at a personal and corporate level: if you don’t demonstrate you manage it properly when you don’t need it, you can be almost certain you won’t be able to go into debt via credit when you do need it.

    Apple makes more than enough profit to amass a huge pool of cash, and pretty much guarantee long-term survival.  What reason would they need to take on a huge amount of debt that has nothing to do with stock buybacks and dividends?  The only thing I can see as being rational is an absolutely HUGE capital expenditure they want nobody being able to expect, because they’re not keeping cash around.  Keeping huge amounts of cash around makes you more vulnerable to buyouts/acquisitions: as much as their market cap is, history has shown corporate raiders will take on giants if there’s money to be pocketed, and that makes it much easier to get funding from many sources as needed.  Having huge amounts of debt acts sort of as an anchor that can work in their favor if done right: buying debt (by itself, unless it has paid for something with good ROI) is a huge liability.  There may be more than one reason to do this, not even counting that the debt interest rates are lower than inflation currently has been and is likely to be (think of all the stimulus paid out, massive inflation has to happen sometime).  By going into debt without acquiring other companies/IP, they don’t need to be concerned about antitrust issues in using their leverage in this way, because it’s too abstract to be tied to anything.

    Apple, if nothing else, is hedging the current value of money against the future value, and is likely to make major amounts of money when you adjust for inflation when they pay back the debt.  If they charge prices at inflation-adjusted prices for goods and services in the future, but they are only paying the past no-inflation-adjusted (mild interest rates) debt, they’re making money via a Time Machine (I had to throw in a pun) in the same way ordinary people build up value by buying a home with a mortgage, as their payments don’t change in the future, just the relative value of what they pay each month goes down.
    Dogperson
  • Reply 5 of 24
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Xed said:
    Apple currently has ~$110B in debt (incl commercial paper). This new issue will make it’s total debt ~$125B. That’s still a trivial 5.5% of the company’s market value of equity. It’s like a person with a million dollar net worth having $55,000 in debt. 

    Apple’s cash (including all of its marketable securities), at ~$190B, still dwarfs its total debt. 
    This board has had many discussions about debt over the years. Often I've seen forum members claim that having debt of any kind means you're not responsible with your money when I'd easily argue that borrowing when interest rates are incredibly low is the most financially prudent thing you can do, even if feels uncomfortable having to pay something back that you can easily afford to pay for outright.

    Borrowing money to give it away is not responsible corporate management.

    Responsible corporations manage money responsibly and invest in themselves.   Stock buybacks do neither.  And, borrowing money for stock buybacks is even less responsible.

    Because Apple has enough profit and cash from operations to cover it up does not make it responsible corporate management.
  • Reply 6 of 24
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    A large part of their cash will not be in the USA, and if they repatriate it then it will be subject to domestic taxation that far exceeds the interest rates of the debt they're taking on. The foreign cash holdings are effectively a guarantee of Apple's ability to pay that allows them to borrow even more cheaply, safe in the knowledge that their income in the USA will enable them to comfortably pay off those loans, without ever having to touch the cash held overseas (until the next repatriation tax holiday).
    randominternetpersonDogperson
  • Reply 7 of 24
    carnegiecarnegie Posts: 1,082member
    Xed said:
    Apple currently has ~$110B in debt (incl commercial paper). This new issue will make it’s total debt ~$125B. That’s still a trivial 5.5% of the company’s market value of equity. It’s like a person with a million dollar net worth having $55,000 in debt. 

    Apple’s cash (including all of its marketable securities), at ~$190B, still dwarfs its total debt. 
    This board has had many discussions about debt over the years. Often I've seen forum members claim that having debt of any kind means you're not responsible with your money when I'd easily argue that borrowing when interest rates are incredibly low is the most financially prudent thing you can do, even if feels uncomfortable having to pay something back that you can easily afford to pay for outright.

    Borrowing money to give it away is not responsible corporate management.

    Responsible corporations manage money responsibly and invest in themselves.   Stock buybacks do neither.  And, borrowing money for stock buybacks is even less responsible.

    Because Apple has enough profit and cash from operations to cover it up does not make it responsible corporate management.
    Borrowing money - to include borrowing it to facilitate stock buybacks - can be irresponsible. But in Apple's case the buybacks have been anything but irresponsible. Apple's buyback program over the last decade or so has been one of the most successful financial moves in the history of equity investment. Apple saw something that was persistently undervalued and had the ability to buy it in large quantities and, having nothing else it wanted to do with its retained profits, did so. Its persistent shareholders have benefited tremendously from those buybacks. And if Apple itself wanted to, it could as well - e.g, by (reissuing and) selling those shares at an enormous effective profit.

    Apple has continued to invest in itself and its future product lines and services. It shouldn't have spent more money on such things - i.e., beyond what it thought made sense - just because it had more money available to it. You don't just spend money because you have it. That's a good way to lose money. You spend money because there are reasons - and reason on-net - to do so. A well run business doesn't buy a new fleet of vehicles just because it has money to do so. It buys a new fleet of vehicles because it makes business sense to do so. These buybacks were done with money that was left over (or money borrowed effectively against money that was left over) after Apple spent whatever money it thought made sense on, e.g., R&D and acquisitions.

    I haven't entered the latest buyback information, so I won't offer more precise numbers, but Apple is more than a trillion dollars ahead on its buybacks. That gained value is reflected in the current share price. If Apple wanted, or needed money for something, it could reissue and sell the shares it has bought back at an average price of just $50 and still come out ahead - i.e., it would have more money on its books than if it had not done the buybacks (and just held that money) at the same share dilution as if the buybacks never happened.

    The prudence of different share buyback programs can be difficult to assess, even after the fact. But when it comes to Apple, it's pretty hard to argue that its buyback program hasn't been very successful - very profitable for its shareholders and, if needed, for the company itself. Consistent with my philosophy of equity investment, I'm generally not a fan of returning capital to shareholders. (And I'm certainly not a fan of doing so through dividends.) But at some point, when a company has been so successful that it doesn't have another prudent use for its retained profits, it makes sense to return capital to shareholders. Without the possibility that will eventually happen, equity investment in general doesn't make much sense.
    randominternetpersonthtbadmonk
  • Reply 8 of 24
    carnegiecarnegie Posts: 1,082member

    crowley said:
    A large part of their cash will not be in the USA, and if they repatriate it then it will be subject to domestic taxation that far exceeds the interest rates of the debt they're taking on. The foreign cash holdings are effectively a guarantee of Apple's ability to pay that allows them to borrow even more cheaply, safe in the knowledge that their income in the USA will enable them to comfortably pay off those loans, without ever having to touch the cash held overseas (until the next repatriation tax holiday).
    That used to be a concern and a reason for borrowing in order to facilitate share repurchases, but it isn't anymore. With the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, existing not repatriated foreign earnings were deemed repatriated for tax purposes. And going forward it doesn't matter whether foreign earnings are repatriated, the new minimum taxation rules apply anyway.
    randominternetpersonmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 9 of 24
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,822member
    A funny thing about debt and credit, both at a personal and corporate level: if you don’t demonstrate you manage it properly when you don’t need it, you can be almost certain you won’t be able to go into debt via credit when you do need it.

    Apple makes more than enough profit to amass a huge pool of cash, and pretty much guarantee long-term survival.  What reason would they need to take on a huge amount of debt that has nothing to do with stock buybacks and dividends?  The only thing I can see as being rational is an absolutely HUGE capital expenditure they want nobody being able to expect, because they’re not keeping cash around.  Keeping huge amounts of cash around makes you more vulnerable to buyouts/acquisitions: as much as their market cap is, history has shown corporate raiders will take on giants if there’s money to be pocketed, and that makes it much easier to get funding from many sources as needed.  Having huge amounts of debt acts sort of as an anchor that can work in their favor if done right: buying debt (by itself, unless it has paid for something with good ROI) is a huge liability.  There may be more than one reason to do this, not even counting that the debt interest rates are lower than inflation currently has been and is likely to be (think of all the stimulus paid out, massive inflation has to happen sometime).  By going into debt without acquiring other companies/IP, they don’t need to be concerned about antitrust issues in using their leverage in this way, because it’s too abstract to be tied to anything.

    Apple, if nothing else, is hedging the current value of money against the future value, and is likely to make major amounts of money when you adjust for inflation when they pay back the debt.  If they charge prices at inflation-adjusted prices for goods and services in the future, but they are only paying the past no-inflation-adjusted (mild interest rates) debt, they’re making money via a Time Machine (I had to throw in a pun) in the same way ordinary people build up value by buying a home with a mortgage, as their payments don’t change in the future, just the relative value of what they pay each month goes down.
    One question, who or what do you see as a potential buyer of Apple assuming the high cash level made them attractive as you mention?
  • Reply 9 of 24
    XedXed Posts: 2,822member
    Xed said:
    Apple currently has ~$110B in debt (incl commercial paper). This new issue will make it’s total debt ~$125B. That’s still a trivial 5.5% of the company’s market value of equity. It’s like a person with a million dollar net worth having $55,000 in debt. 

    Apple’s cash (including all of its marketable securities), at ~$190B, still dwarfs its total debt. 
    This board has had many discussions about debt over the years. Often I've seen forum members claim that having debt of any kind means you're not responsible with your money when I'd easily argue that borrowing when interest rates are incredibly low is the most financially prudent thing you can do, even if feels uncomfortable having to pay something back that you can easily afford to pay for outright.

    Borrowing money to give it away is not responsible corporate management.

    Responsible corporations manage money responsibly and invest in themselves.   Stock buybacks do neither.  And, borrowing money for stock buybacks is even less responsible.

    Because Apple has enough profit and cash from operations to cover it up does not make it responsible corporate management.
    Then we're glad you aren't working at Apple.
  • Reply 11 of 24
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,822member

    carnegie said:
    Xed said:
    Apple currently has ~$110B in debt (incl commercial paper). This new issue will make it’s total debt ~$125B. That’s still a trivial 5.5% of the company’s market value of equity. It’s like a person with a million dollar net worth having $55,000 in debt. 

    Apple’s cash (including all of its marketable securities), at ~$190B, still dwarfs its total debt. 
    This board has had many discussions about debt over the years. Often I've seen forum members claim that having debt of any kind means you're not responsible with your money when I'd easily argue that borrowing when interest rates are incredibly low is the most financially prudent thing you can do, even if feels uncomfortable having to pay something back that you can easily afford to pay for outright.

    Borrowing money to give it away is not responsible corporate management.

    Responsible corporations manage money responsibly and invest in themselves.   Stock buybacks do neither.  And, borrowing money for stock buybacks is even less responsible.

    Because Apple has enough profit and cash from operations to cover it up does not make it responsible corporate management.
    Borrowing money - to include borrowing it to facilitate stock buybacks - can be irresponsible. But in Apple's case the buybacks have been anything but irresponsible. Apple's buyback program over the last decade or so has been one of the most successful financial moves in the history of equity investment. Apple saw something that was persistently undervalued and had the ability to buy it in large quantities and, having nothing else it wanted to do with its retained profits, did so. Its persistent shareholders have benefited tremendously from those buybacks. And if Apple itself wanted to, it could as well - e.g, by (reissuing and) selling those shares at an enormous effective profit.

    Apple has continued to invest in itself and its future product lines and services. It shouldn't have spent more money on such things - i.e., beyond what it thought made sense - just because it had more money available to it. You don't just spend money because you have it. That's a good way to lose money. You spend money because there are reasons - and reason on-net - to do so. A well run business doesn't buy a new fleet of vehicles just because it has money to do so. It buys a new fleet of vehicles because it makes business sense to do so. These buybacks were done with money that was left over (or money borrowed effectively against money that was left over) after Apple spent whatever money it thought made sense on, e.g., R&D and acquisitions.

    I haven't entered the latest buyback information, so I won't offer more precise numbers, but Apple is more than a trillion dollars ahead on its buybacks. That gained value is reflected in the current share price. If Apple wanted, or needed money for something, it could reissue and sell the shares it has bought back at an average price of just $50 and still come out ahead - i.e., it would have more money on its books than if it had not done the buybacks (and just held that money) at the same share dilution as if the buybacks never happened.

    The prudence of different share buyback programs can be difficult to assess, even after the fact. But when it comes to Apple, it's pretty hard to argue that its buyback program hasn't been very successful - very profitable for its shareholders and, if needed, for the company itself. Consistent with my philosophy of equity investment, I'm generally not a fan of returning capital to shareholders. (And I'm certainly not a fan of doing so through dividends.) But at some point, when a company has been so successful that it doesn't have another prudent use for its retained profits, it makes sense to return capital to shareholders. Without the possibility that will eventually happen, equity investment in general doesn't make much sense.
    You comments on 'spending money for the sake of it' are excellent.  Please will you come and talk to our HOA?  :)
    randominternetpersonDogperson
  • Reply 12 of 24
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    carnegie said:
    Xed said:
    Apple currently has ~$110B in debt (incl commercial paper). This new issue will make it’s total debt ~$125B. That’s still a trivial 5.5% of the company’s market value of equity. It’s like a person with a million dollar net worth having $55,000 in debt. 

    Apple’s cash (including all of its marketable securities), at ~$190B, still dwarfs its total debt. 
    This board has had many discussions about debt over the years. Often I've seen forum members claim that having debt of any kind means you're not responsible with your money when I'd easily argue that borrowing when interest rates are incredibly low is the most financially prudent thing you can do, even if feels uncomfortable having to pay something back that you can easily afford to pay for outright.

    Borrowing money to give it away is not responsible corporate management.

    Responsible corporations manage money responsibly and invest in themselves.   Stock buybacks do neither.  And, borrowing money for stock buybacks is even less responsible.

    Because Apple has enough profit and cash from operations to cover it up does not make it responsible corporate management.
    Borrowing money - to include borrowing it to facilitate stock buybacks - can be irresponsible. But in Apple's case the buybacks have been anything but irresponsible. Apple's buyback program over the last decade or so has been one of the most successful financial moves in the history of equity investment.
    ....

    It would be -- if Apple was a stock broker.   But, its not.   Buying stock is a money laundering scheme to funnel assets to others and takes money away from the business that could be used to grow that business.


  • Reply 13 of 24
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    carnegie said:

    crowley said:
    A large part of their cash will not be in the USA, and if they repatriate it then it will be subject to domestic taxation that far exceeds the interest rates of the debt they're taking on. The foreign cash holdings are effectively a guarantee of Apple's ability to pay that allows them to borrow even more cheaply, safe in the knowledge that their income in the USA will enable them to comfortably pay off those loans, without ever having to touch the cash held overseas (until the next repatriation tax holiday).
    That used to be a concern and a reason for borrowing in order to facilitate share repurchases, but it isn't anymore. With the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, existing not repatriated foreign earnings were deemed repatriated for tax purposes. And going forward it doesn't matter whether foreign earnings are repatriated, the new minimum taxation rules apply anyway.
    Is that right?  I was under the impression that rates were reduced, but repatriation will still likely incur a tax, unless the tax credit exceeds the domestic rate.  I suppose there is some pliability in whether the calculated repatriation rate is higher than a bond interest rate, but given how effective Apple are at managing their tax affairs it seems likely they'll have headroom.

    Apologies if I've got it wrong.
    edited February 2021 DogpersonGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 14 of 24
    carnegie said:
    Xed said:
    Apple currently has ~$110B in debt (incl commercial paper). This new issue will make it’s total debt ~$125B. That’s still a trivial 5.5% of the company’s market value of equity. It’s like a person with a million dollar net worth having $55,000 in debt. 

    Apple’s cash (including all of its marketable securities), at ~$190B, still dwarfs its total debt. 
    This board has had many discussions about debt over the years. Often I've seen forum members claim that having debt of any kind means you're not responsible with your money when I'd easily argue that borrowing when interest rates are incredibly low is the most financially prudent thing you can do, even if feels uncomfortable having to pay something back that you can easily afford to pay for outright.

    Borrowing money to give it away is not responsible corporate management.

    Responsible corporations manage money responsibly and invest in themselves.   Stock buybacks do neither.  And, borrowing money for stock buybacks is even less responsible.

    Because Apple has enough profit and cash from operations to cover it up does not make it responsible corporate management.
    Borrowing money - to include borrowing it to facilitate stock buybacks - can be irresponsible. But in Apple's case the buybacks have been anything but irresponsible. Apple's buyback program over the last decade or so has been one of the most successful financial moves in the history of equity investment.
    ....

    It would be -- if Apple was a stock broker.   But, its not.   Buying stock is a money laundering scheme to funnel assets to others and takes money away from the business that could be used to grow that business.


    You realize that Apple had gross revenue of 110 billion dollars last quarter, right?  How to you expect them to grow fast enough to use all this cash?  They could buy a new Fortune 500 company every quarter, I suppose and become less efficient and profitable with each acquisition.  Sounds like a terrible idea to me.
    tht
  • Reply 15 of 24
    carnegiecarnegie Posts: 1,082member
    crowley said:
    carnegie said:

    crowley said:
    A large part of their cash will not be in the USA, and if they repatriate it then it will be subject to domestic taxation that far exceeds the interest rates of the debt they're taking on. The foreign cash holdings are effectively a guarantee of Apple's ability to pay that allows them to borrow even more cheaply, safe in the knowledge that their income in the USA will enable them to comfortably pay off those loans, without ever having to touch the cash held overseas (until the next repatriation tax holiday).
    That used to be a concern and a reason for borrowing in order to facilitate share repurchases, but it isn't anymore. With the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, existing not repatriated foreign earnings were deemed repatriated for tax purposes. And going forward it doesn't matter whether foreign earnings are repatriated, the new minimum taxation rules apply anyway.
    Is that right?  I was under the impression that rates were reduced, but repatriation will still likely incur a tax, unless the tax credit exceeds the domestic rate.  I suppose there is some pliability in whether the calculated repatriation rate is higher than a bond interest rate, but given how effective Apple are at managing their tax affairs it seems likely they'll have headroom.

    Apologies if I've got it wrong.
    Well, for previous foreign earnings which hadn't been repatriated, it doesn't matter whether companies actually repatriate them (e.g., have the foreign subsidiary pay dividends to the domestic parent). They were deemed repatriated and those companies owe a reduced rate on those previously not repatriated earnings.

    But the TCJA also changed how foreign earnings are treated going forward. Generally speaking foreign earnings aren't taxable in the U.S. now. We moved from a worldwide taxation system to a generally territorial taxation system. Like much of the rest of the developed world, we no longer - with some exceptions - tax foreign earnings of domestic corporations. So companies can generally repatriate foreign earnings without tax consequences. There are, however, some minimum taxation rules that apply to certain kinds of income and if foreign earnings aren't taxed to some minimum amounts by foreign countries. Those rules apply though whether the foreign earnings are repatriated.
  • Reply 16 of 24
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    It would be -- if Apple was a stock broker.   But, its not.   Buying stock is a money laundering scheme to funnel assets to others and takes money away from the business that could be used to grow that business.
    And Apple are famously short of cash and haven't grown in years.
    edited February 2021
  • Reply 17 of 24
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    carnegie said:
    crowley said:
    carnegie said:

    crowley said:
    A large part of their cash will not be in the USA, and if they repatriate it then it will be subject to domestic taxation that far exceeds the interest rates of the debt they're taking on. The foreign cash holdings are effectively a guarantee of Apple's ability to pay that allows them to borrow even more cheaply, safe in the knowledge that their income in the USA will enable them to comfortably pay off those loans, without ever having to touch the cash held overseas (until the next repatriation tax holiday).
    That used to be a concern and a reason for borrowing in order to facilitate share repurchases, but it isn't anymore. With the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, existing not repatriated foreign earnings were deemed repatriated for tax purposes. And going forward it doesn't matter whether foreign earnings are repatriated, the new minimum taxation rules apply anyway.
    Is that right?  I was under the impression that rates were reduced, but repatriation will still likely incur a tax, unless the tax credit exceeds the domestic rate.  I suppose there is some pliability in whether the calculated repatriation rate is higher than a bond interest rate, but given how effective Apple are at managing their tax affairs it seems likely they'll have headroom.

    Apologies if I've got it wrong.
    Well, for previous foreign earnings which hadn't been repatriated, it doesn't matter whether companies actually repatriate them (e.g., have the foreign subsidiary pay dividends to the domestic parent). They were deemed repatriated and those companies owe a reduced rate on those previously not repatriated earnings.

    But the TCJA also changed how foreign earnings are treated going forward. Generally speaking foreign earnings aren't taxable in the U.S. now. We moved from a worldwide taxation system to a generally territorial taxation system. Like much of the rest of the developed world, we no longer - with some exceptions - tax foreign earnings of domestic corporations. So companies can generally repatriate foreign earnings without tax consequences. There are, however, some minimum taxation rules that apply to certain kinds of income and if foreign earnings aren't taxed to some minimum amounts by foreign countries. Those rules apply though whether the foreign earnings are repatriated.
    Thanks. I'm not entirely sure I understand everything, so I'll stop talking as if I do  B)
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 18 of 24
    MacPro said:
    A funny thing about debt and credit, both at a personal and corporate level: if you don’t demonstrate you manage it properly when you don’t need it, you can be almost certain you won’t be able to go into debt via credit when you do need it.

    Apple makes more than enough profit to amass a huge pool of cash, and pretty much guarantee long-term survival.  What reason would they need to take on a huge amount of debt that has nothing to do with stock buybacks and dividends?  The only thing I can see as being rational is an absolutely HUGE capital expenditure they want nobody being able to expect, because they’re not keeping cash around.  Keeping huge amounts of cash around makes you more vulnerable to buyouts/acquisitions: as much as their market cap is, history has shown corporate raiders will take on giants if there’s money to be pocketed, and that makes it much easier to get funding from many sources as needed.  Having huge amounts of debt acts sort of as an anchor that can work in their favor if done right: buying debt (by itself, unless it has paid for something with good ROI) is a huge liability.  There may be more than one reason to do this, not even counting that the debt interest rates are lower than inflation currently has been and is likely to be (think of all the stimulus paid out, massive inflation has to happen sometime).  By going into debt without acquiring other companies/IP, they don’t need to be concerned about antitrust issues in using their leverage in this way, because it’s too abstract to be tied to anything.

    Apple, if nothing else, is hedging the current value of money against the future value, and is likely to make major amounts of money when you adjust for inflation when they pay back the debt.  If they charge prices at inflation-adjusted prices for goods and services in the future, but they are only paying the past no-inflation-adjusted (mild interest rates) debt, they’re making money via a Time Machine (I had to throw in a pun) in the same way ordinary people build up value by buying a home with a mortgage, as their payments don’t change in the future, just the relative value of what they pay each month goes down.
    One question, who or what do you see as a potential buyer of Apple assuming the high cash level made them attractive as you mention?
    An unspecified corporate raider group not satisfied with what Apple could return to shareholders, intent on draining all assets for quick bucks.  This is likely a Carl Icahn type, even if not him specifically, as an organizer. It’s been a threat to large tech businesses and other types before.
  • Reply 19 of 24
    Xed said:
    Apple currently has ~$110B in debt (incl commercial paper). This new issue will make it’s total debt ~$125B. That’s still a trivial 5.5% of the company’s market value of equity. It’s like a person with a million dollar net worth having $55,000 in debt. 

    Apple’s cash (including all of its marketable securities), at ~$190B, still dwarfs its total debt. 
    This board has had many discussions about debt over the years. Often I've seen forum members claim that having debt of any kind means you're not responsible with your money when I'd easily argue that borrowing when interest rates are incredibly low is the most financially prudent thing you can do, even if feels uncomfortable having to pay something back that you can easily afford to pay for outright.

    Borrowing money to give it away is not responsible corporate management.

    Responsible corporations manage money responsibly and invest in themselves.   Stock buybacks do neither.  And, borrowing money for stock buybacks is even less responsible.

    Because Apple has enough profit and cash from operations to cover it up does not make it responsible corporate management.
    Nonsense. It is an extremely effective way to institute a change in a company’s capital structure and hence, its cost of capital (I.e., the discount rate at which its cash flows are valued, thereby, all else equal, increasing the value of the firm). 
  • Reply 20 of 24
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member

    Borrowing money to give it away is not responsible corporate management.

    Responsible corporations manage money responsibly and invest in themselves.   
    That's completely made up.  There's nothing intrinsically "responsible" about a corporation investing money in themselves, especially if they don't need it.  Corporations (rightly oor wrongly) exisat to return value to shareholders, and financial mechanisms like share buybacks are as valid a way to do that as any.

    Not that I'm at all interested in the answer, but just as a challenge which should point out the nothingness of your argument: where even do you think Apple has been deficient in self-investment?
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