I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
Of course I know that. But other manufacturers don’t sell products under their own name and they don’t have a clear reputation for a certain sector of the market that I don’t think Apple is going for (low cost).
So you think Apple will sign a deal that allows Kia to trumpet the fact that they build the Apple car? ("Designed by Apple, built by Kia") And you think the Apple Car will use the same quality materials and components that Kia does? Have you not been watching how Apple operates these last couple of decades?
Funny thing. Other news reports are saying that Hyundai is worried that the association with Apple might dilute the Hyundai brand image. (They're not that concerned about Kia because it's a down-market brand.)
I must say, Hyundai has an inflated opinion of its brand. If at all, it's Apple that should be worried of an association with the Hyundai brand.
I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
I think it's a fair point to wonder about partnering with Kia. Consumers spend a much higher portion of their incomes on personal transportation than on Apple products (not counting some Mac Pro configurations). If the rumor mill was saying that Apple was considering partnering with the U.S.-based manufacturing arms of BMW or Mercedes-Benz, many consumers' first reaction would be, "Well, those are expensive cars, so Apple's car will be expensive and therefore good." Or if the rumors said Apple was considering partnering with Honda's U.S.-based operations, consumers might react by thinking "Honda has been known for value and quality for decades." It's true that Kia, along with sister brands Hyundai and Genesis, have enjoyed improved quality rankings in recent years. But many of us in the USA remember that automaker's reputation as a maker of cheap, unreliable cars from the late 1980s (when they first entered the U.S. market) and 1990s, and news reports suggest company hasn't entirely escaped its quality issues in recent years.
I'm a fan of all things Apple … but I won't consider buying an Apple car until perhaps its fifth or sixth model year, especially considering that an Apple's car is more likely to have BMW pricing than Kia pricing, regardless of who builds it for them.
I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
Top of the line Kia Stinger GT2 is $52,000 USD. Telluride SUV us nearly 50k USD at it's top trim as well. They aren't a luxury brand for sure but they have started to make some higher quality pricier vehicles. iPhones are made by Foxconn I think the average person doesn't really care about that as long as they know Apple designed it. This is different though and it's KIA brand as you memtioned. I think that the car will be expensive no matter who makes because it's Apple and it will no doubt be premium. If they would go with a high end manufacturer it may push the price too high?
In the UK, Kia have been making the niro for some time now. They have begun to expand the range of cars under the Niro name, however their car has had the best and most reliable driving range except Tesla - which costs twice the price. So, they know a thing or two about electric cars and their batteries/drivetrain irrespective of the fact that historically they have leant towards the more budget end of the market.
If they team up with Apple who specialise in style, quality, design and build quality - then this could be a very good solution for Apple's first car.
I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
Except Foxconn doesn’t have a Name building anything else, and Apple is responsible for the entire design and engineering process for their other products.
Kia is a car company and has an image and reputation as such. Any car that Apple should coproduce with an existing company will be tied to that company’s reputation, good or bad.
I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
A car is not an iPhone -- you do know that, right?
I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
Of course I know that. But other manufacturers don’t sell products under their own name and they don’t have a clear reputation for a certain sector of the market that I don’t think Apple is going for (low cost).
Foxconn makes other branded devices. Samsung makes a custom iPhone display but also makes its own displays and phones. Your argument doesn’t hold water.
Sorry - your rebuttal doesn’t hold water.
Foxconn devices are unknown in the U.S so they have no impact.
The display on an iPhone is not associated with Samsung in nearly the same way a car would be associated with the manufacturer, and Samsung is actually known for making high quality displays.
Further more, re-badging models is common in the auto industry, so people actually know that the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac vibe are essentially the same car. If Kia makes a car for Apple the assumption will be that it’s a re-badges Kia model.
Well well well, so Kia is becoming the TSMC (Taiwan Semi) for the next gen autos, interesting.
Why is no one talking about the possible Boston Dynamics tie-in with this autos??? Apple couldn't have picked a better partner for their initial foray into autos, a long time auto manufacturer who owns THE most cutting edge robotics company. To me that's the most exciting part of this whole partnership.
The branding issue is a nothing burger, no one cares who makes Apple's stuff, be it Hon Hai, TSMC, or Kia, they're just manufacturing partners. In fact, choosing Kia probably saved your whinning butts $10k right off the bat when you buy one of these babies.
So Stop yo Whining!
No one is talking because what you posted makes no sense.
Kia agreed to take a controlling interest in Boston Dynamics barely a month ago. The deal won’t close until at least June, assuming it closes.
Even if Kia did own BD, I don’t see the relevance of “cutting edge robotics” to electric cars, except maybe in a factory. But BD robots are nowhere near ready to be used in a factory at a large scale, and even if they were, it’s unclear how that would enhance the car itself.
I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
To be honest, I don't think Kia making cars for Apple will somehow tarnish Apple's image. Apple has to find a partner to produce cars so I don't think it makes a difference if they use Kia, Ford, VW, or any other brand. If people think using Kia somehow tarnishes Apple's image, they have no clue how the auto industry works. I'm sure a lot of people don't even realize makers such as Ford, BMW, Mercedes, etc are sourcing parts from the same supplier.
I agree with you. The wrinkle is how will these be sold? I highly doubt Apple is seriously considering having their cars sold at Kia dealerships. That would have an impact on perceptions, but that cannot be the plan. As plenty of people have said here, one of the challenges with cars as opposed to phones and computers is that ongoing maintenance and repairs (with massive involvement from independent third parties) is a big part of the TCO. When (if) Apple announces this, they'll have to explain where people will take these to be serviced. Probably not an Apple Store. Maaaaybe a Kia dealership? Hrm.
Steve Jobs' head would be exploding with these major leaks in recent days.
That's a good question. I was thinking Apple could sell them in a similar fashion to Carvana, but where would you go to get warranty repairs or any other repairs done? It's quite feasible Apple won't be selling an Apple branded car and instead using Kia as a partner to use their battery tech and autonomous driving system they've developed. I guess we will know more in the next several years. It's going to be hard for Apple to hide if they start making land purchases or leases in large cities around the country and other parts of the world. If Apple does that, it's going to tell you they plan on having a tradition style dealership. If Apple doesn't do that, the cars will probably have to be sold and serviced at a Kia dealership if they are being built on the Hyundai's E-GMP electric vehicle platform.
I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
Of course I know that. But other manufacturers don’t sell products under their own name and they don’t have a clear reputation for a certain sector of the market that I don’t think Apple is going for (low cost).
Foxconn does make some products under their own name. They also have subsidiaries like Belkin and Sharp and others. Samsung makes Apple's OLED screens. So, I'm not sure there's much difference here. You're not getting a KIA car, you're getting an Apple car as much as you're getting an Apple iPhone, not a Foxconn/Samsung/Qualcomm/Whatever iPhone.
All of a sudden, I want to know less about the Apple car. My enthusiasm is draining. Apple might want to consider taking control of the news narrative at this point.
Get Schiller out of retirement, a random internet person is losing interest in the rumors about an unannounced product!
With Phil Schiller being the 'car nut' that he is, I'm betting that he's not fully retired and has some skin in this game.
Yeah, I assume being Apple Fellow means you're still involved as much as you want to be without any of the responsibility. I'm mostly making fun of the OP, like Apple has to "consider" something based on how they feel about reading a rumor.
My guess is that these vehicles will not be for sale. I think that they will slowly put out fleets of these to major cities as a taxi service. The car will automatically adjust to your presets and, with the use of handoff, you will seamlessly continue whatever it was you were doing prior to getting into the vehicle. I would further guess that the cities these are first released into will be those that first had street view. Perhaps this was part of the reason they had a change of opinion towards providing street view in maps? Regardless, I am skeptical that these will be for purchase.
What makes you think it was a "change of opinion" and not just the natural progression of their mapping road...map?
I’m guessing that Apple has a significant technological advantage in some area that makes them confident that they will be able to make some of the best cars on the road from day one. Otherwise they would be unlikely to jump in to a such a different and famously difficult business with much lower margins than their other products. Perhaps a big breakthrough in battery technology? It’s obviously an area they’ve been investing in for years, and any R&D progress could benefit almost every product they make, but for electric cars it could be one of the biggest distinguishing factors. The self-driving thing could be part of it, but it seems like there should be something more fundamental.
I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
I think it's a fair point to wonder about partnering with Kia. Consumers spend a much higher portion of their incomes on personal transportation than on Apple products (not counting some Mac Pro configurations). If the rumor mill was saying that Apple was considering partnering with the U.S.-based manufacturing arms of BMW or Mercedes-Benz, many consumers' first reaction would be, "Well, those are expensive cars, so Apple's car will be expensive and therefore good." Or if the rumors said Apple was considering partnering with Honda's U.S.-based operations, consumers might react by thinking "Honda has been known for value and quality for decades." It's true that Kia, along with sister brands Hyundai and Genesis, have enjoyed improved quality rankings in recent years. But many of us in the USA remember that automaker's reputation as a maker of cheap, unreliable cars from the late 1980s (when they first entered the U.S. market) and 1990s, and news reports suggest company hasn't entirely escaped its quality issues in recent years.
I'm a fan of all things Apple … but I won't consider buying an Apple car until perhaps its fifth or sixth model year (after enough are on the roads to have established a reputation for reliability, hopefully), especially considering that Apple's car is more likely to have BMW pricing than Kia pricing, regardless of who builds it for them.
Well, if there's anything that we've learned over the years, it's that Apple has very lax requirements and tolerances for their manufacturing partners! LOL
I'm going to venture a guess that the Kia of 30-40 years ago (seriously?) has fuck all to do with their new EV chassis design. Also, this will be an Apple-designed vehicle, not a Kia-designed vehicle. So let's not assume Kia even has much of a horse in this race aside from potentially one major component and assembly, if it's even their component as they originally designed it.
My guess is that these vehicles will not be for sale. I think that they will slowly put out fleets of these to major cities as a taxi service. The car will automatically adjust to your presets and, with the use of handoff, you will seamlessly continue whatever it was you were doing prior to getting into the vehicle. I would further guess that the cities these are first released into will be those that first had street view. Perhaps this was part of the reason they had a change of opinion towards providing street view in maps? Regardless, I am skeptical that these will be for purchase.
Nice post. You beat the next leak that supports your hypothesis by the better part of a day. Not too often you can look smart this quickly.
I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
Everyone knows this but it’s besides the point since Apple designs that vast majority of parts in its products. The purported use of the E-GMP platform is a big letdown because that is a fundamental automotive system designed not by Apple but another company. If it was the tires then it would be a big shoulder shrug. But this is a major subsystem.
There are a lot of assumptions being made in these threads based on rumors. Do we know that Apple is using them straight off the shelf, or if they're going to have Kia modify them in some ways to their own specifications? No. Also, I think you're overstating how much Apple designs its disparate parts. It's not like every controller/chip/sensor/component in a Mac or iPhone is designed and built by Apple from the ground up, they're a conglomeration of many different parts from many different suppliers worldwide meticulously crafted to work together. When you refer to your iPhone's camera, do you refer to Sony image sensors or lenses? Or bigger picture, how is this not unlike Intel making the CPU and AMD making the GPUs in Macs up until the ASi generation? That's a fundamental system central to the device in question.
I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
Except Foxconn doesn’t have a Name building anything else, and Apple is responsible for the entire design and engineering process for their other products.
Kia is a car company and has an image and reputation as such. Any car that Apple should coproduce with an existing company will be tied to that company’s reputation, good or bad.
Whether Foxconn is a known brand or not is irrelevant. The point is they make a wide variety of products for various companies on a wide scale of quality and fit and finish. You know, to their company's specifications. If you think Kia is somehow not going to meet Apple's expectations, you better let them know before they figure it out the hard way! Because, you know, Apple's really bad at partnering with manufacturers as we've seen. 😆
I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
A car is not an iPhone -- you do know that, right?
Comments
A rehash of the Motorola ROKR?
I must say, Hyundai has an inflated opinion of its brand. If at all, it's Apple that should be worried of an association with the Hyundai brand.
I'm a fan of all things Apple … but I won't consider buying an Apple car until perhaps its fifth or sixth model year, especially considering that an Apple's car is more likely to have BMW pricing than Kia pricing, regardless of who builds it for them.
If they team up with Apple who specialise in style, quality, design and build quality - then this could be a very good solution for Apple's first car.
What makes you think it was a "change of opinion" and not just the natural progression of their mapping road...map?
Maybe they reinvented the wheel.
Well, if there's anything that we've learned over the years, it's that Apple has very lax requirements and tolerances for their manufacturing partners! LOL
I'm going to venture a guess that the Kia of 30-40 years ago (seriously?) has fuck all to do with their new EV chassis design. Also, this will be an Apple-designed vehicle, not a Kia-designed vehicle. So let's not assume Kia even has much of a horse in this race aside from potentially one major component and assembly, if it's even their component as they originally designed it.
For example:
https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2021/02/apple-wins-a-second-project-titan-patent-today-covering-a-next-gen-active-suspension-system.html
There are a lot of assumptions being made in these threads based on rumors. Do we know that Apple is using them straight off the shelf, or if they're going to have Kia modify them in some ways to their own specifications? No. Also, I think you're overstating how much Apple designs its disparate parts. It's not like every controller/chip/sensor/component in a Mac or iPhone is designed and built by Apple from the ground up, they're a conglomeration of many different parts from many different suppliers worldwide meticulously crafted to work together. When you refer to your iPhone's camera, do you refer to Sony image sensors or lenses? Or bigger picture, how is this not unlike Intel making the CPU and AMD making the GPUs in Macs up until the ASi generation? That's a fundamental system central to the device in question.
Do you know what an analogy is?