Nissan says it is 'not in talks' to build 'Apple Car'

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  • Reply 21 of 28
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,433member
    Rayz2016 said:
    k2kw said:
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 
    Yes.   It’s stupid to become a manufacturer for Apple. 

    And who would want to buy an Apple Leaf for $100,000?

    If Apple is Serious they need to Manufacture their own Batteries and cars.   Tim Cook should have moved to do this years ago.   Now instead  of Apple buying Tesla, Apple is playing catch up.   Probably will take them 3 years to do what Tesla does in 1 year, but they have to make a big investment - at least $10 Biilion per year for several years.
    How is this different than other products? Does Apple need to manufacture batteries for iPhones, iPads, and Macs? Why or why not? Apple also doesn't make cameras or lenses.
    Looking at @cloudguy’s comment, the difference is that Apple’s manufacturing partners (Foxconn) don’t have a branded product or have a neat sideline in non-branded components. 

    Neither side will want their brand diluted. 


    There’s plenty of precedent for this in the auto industry - The entire Geo line, Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe3, not to mention all the corporate twins like Ford/Lincoln, Chevy/GMC/etc.

    it may be more due to electric vehicles being seen as the next trend/boom in the car industry and car makers not wanting to share any of their potential pie.
    edited February 15
  • Reply 22 of 28
    The breaking point was said to be Apple’s request that Nissan manufacture cars carrying Apple’s branding.
    This reminds me of exactly what happened when Apple introduced the iPhone. The carriers all wanted their names engraved with ink on the front of Apple's phones. In case you don't remember who won that battle, it was Apple. I was certain Apple would win, and they did.

    I think it would be better for Apple to go solo here. Alternatively, Apple could just make a hostile takeover of a publicly traded car manufacturer, which is essentially the same as going solo. Apple probably can't afford Tesla or Toyota, but they can easily afford Ford or GM with pocket change. Nissan looks like a good deal at the moment. Although I've always recommended that Apple buy McLaren.

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    h2p
  • Reply 23 of 28
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    MplsP said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    k2kw said:
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 
    Yes.   It’s stupid to become a manufacturer for Apple. 

    And who would want to buy an Apple Leaf for $100,000?

    If Apple is Serious they need to Manufacture their own Batteries and cars.   Tim Cook should have moved to do this years ago.   Now instead  of Apple buying Tesla, Apple is playing catch up.   Probably will take them 3 years to do what Tesla does in 1 year, but they have to make a big investment - at least $10 Biilion per year for several years.
    How is this different than other products? Does Apple need to manufacture batteries for iPhones, iPads, and Macs? Why or why not? Apple also doesn't make cameras or lenses.
    Looking at @cloudguy’s comment, the difference is that Apple’s manufacturing partners (Foxconn) don’t have a branded product or have a neat sideline in non-branded components. 

    Neither side will want their brand diluted. 


    There’s plenty of precedent for this in the auto industry - The entire Geo line, Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe3, not to mention all the corporate twins like Ford/Lincoln, Chevy/GMC/etc.

    it may be more due to electric vehicles being seen as the next trend/boom in the car industry and car makers not wanting to share any of their potential pie.
    MplsP said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    k2kw said:
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 
    Yes.   It’s stupid to become a manufacturer for Apple. 

    And who would want to buy an Apple Leaf for $100,000?

    If Apple is Serious they need to Manufacture their own Batteries and cars.   Tim Cook should have moved to do this years ago.   Now instead  of Apple buying Tesla, Apple is playing catch up.   Probably will take them 3 years to do what Tesla does in 1 year, but they have to make a big investment - at least $10 Biilion per year for several years.
    How is this different than other products? Does Apple need to manufacture batteries for iPhones, iPads, and Macs? Why or why not? Apple also doesn't make cameras or lenses.
    Looking at @cloudguy’s comment, the difference is that Apple’s manufacturing partners (Foxconn) don’t have a branded product or have a neat sideline in non-branded components. 

    Neither side will want their brand diluted. 


    There’s plenty of precedent for this in the auto industry - The entire Geo line, Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe3, not to mention all the corporate twins like Ford/Lincoln, Chevy/GMC/etc.

    it may be more due to electric vehicles being seen as the next trend/boom in the car industry and car makers not wanting to share any of their potential pie.
    I stand corrected. 


    Though this isn’t a great example. 
  • Reply 24 of 28
    k2kw said:
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 
    Yes.   It’s stupid to become a manufacturer for Apple. 

    And who would want to buy an Apple Leaf for $100,000?

    If Apple is Serious they need to Manufacture their own Batteries and cars.   Tim Cook should have moved to do this years ago.   Now instead  of Apple buying Tesla, Apple is playing catch up.   Probably will take them 3 years to do what Tesla does in 1 year, but they have to make a big investment - at least $10 Biilion per year for several years.
    How is this different than other products? Does Apple need to manufacture batteries for iPhones, iPads, and Macs? Why or why not? Apple also doesn't make cameras or lenses.
    Making a car is completely different from making a single component like camera or lenses. 
    At the end, the final product must be approved, but the entire production process is very complicated. It cannot be compared to the manufacture of iPhones or other Apple products. 

    I do not know how to describe the production process of cars or how to clarify the difference between cars and other "small" products, but believe me. Car-making is a completely different animal.
    The item I was responding to was the claim that Apple must manufacture its own batteries. Why? 
  • Reply 25 of 28

    Rayz2016 said:
    k2kw said:
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 
    Yes.   It’s stupid to become a manufacturer for Apple. 

    And who would want to buy an Apple Leaf for $100,000?

    If Apple is Serious they need to Manufacture their own Batteries and cars.   Tim Cook should have moved to do this years ago.   Now instead  of Apple buying Tesla, Apple is playing catch up.   Probably will take them 3 years to do what Tesla does in 1 year, but they have to make a big investment - at least $10 Biilion per year for several years.
    How is this different than other products? Does Apple need to manufacture batteries for iPhones, iPads, and Macs? Why or why not? Apple also doesn't make cameras or lenses.
    Looking at @cloudguy’s comment, the difference is that Apple’s manufacturing partners (Foxconn) don’t have a branded product or have a neat sideline in non-branded components. 

    Neither side will want their brand diluted. 


    The topic I was replying to (in the quoted areas) was components, such as batteries. Why must Apple manufacture such a component? I haven't heard a reason yet.
    edited February 16
  • Reply 26 of 28
    k2kw said:
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 
    Yes.   It’s stupid to become a manufacturer for Apple. 

    And who would want to buy an Apple Leaf for $100,000?

    If Apple is Serious they need to Manufacture their own Batteries and cars.   Tim Cook should have moved to do this years ago.   Now instead  of Apple buying Tesla, Apple is playing catch up.   Probably will take them 3 years to do what Tesla does in 1 year, but they have to make a big investment - at least $10 Biilion per year for several years.
    How is this different than other products? Does Apple need to manufacture batteries for iPhones, iPads, and Macs? Why or why not? Apple also doesn't make cameras or lenses.
    Making a car is completely different from making a single component like camera or lenses. 
    At the end, the final product must be approved, but the entire production process is very complicated. It cannot be compared to the manufacture of iPhones or other Apple products. 

    I do not know how to describe the production process of cars or how to clarify the difference between cars and other "small" products, but believe me. Car-making is a completely different animal.
    A component is a component. For what reasons, specifically, does it work or Apple to source computing device components, but does not work to source a car component, such as a battery? Hint: the car you're driving has hundreds of sourced components. Your auto maker doesn't make them all.
  • Reply 27 of 28
    h2ph2p Posts: 310member
    StrangeDays said: The topic I was replying to (in the quoted areas) was components, such as batteries. Why must Apple manufacture such a component? I haven't heard a reason yet.
    The "Build an Apple Battery" meme was based on the perception (reality?) that there is an increasing shortage of "auto batteries" that has OEM's be reluctant to use on a private label (Apple) car. Besides, a breakthrough in solid state (or other, newer tech) batteries would be an awesome Apple contribution to the field.
  • Reply 28 of 28
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,699member
    qwerty52 said:
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 

    Not agree. I am sure, that not all of the OEMs will be able to make a successfully transition from classical engine cars to electrical cars, because of many reasons: not enough money for new investments , not enough research and development capabilities, not enough engineering capacity with knowledge in an all new type of vehicle.
    So I think all of those OEMs will be very happy, to be able to work together with Apple, because otherwise they will become  the Black Berry’s and the Nokia’s of the car industry.
    Actually, they would not work "with" Apple, but "for" Apple. 
    Even OEMs need to be realistic in terms of their own capability and ability for the transformation, but Apple needs to have something in their hand in few months if Apple would like to launch their first Apple Car in 2024 or 2025. 

    Be aware that Apple must hurry up and speed up. Otherwise, it would be too late for Apple if Apple cannot make their car projects in 2025. 


    True!
    The OEMs have been forging partnerships and mutual agreements for EVs for a couple years now.
    They don't mind working WITH someone.   But, at least the better ones, have no desire to work FOR someone -- especially a someone with a history of controlling and managing their vendors while providing low margin business to them.

    Apple might be better off using all that cash they're sitting on to buy one of them -- instead of handing it out to shareholders as buy backs.
    The auto industry will soon be entering a shakeout period where there are multiple bankruptcies along with multiple mergers.  Apple should stay alert for opportunities there.
    muthuk_vanalingam
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