Upcoming macOS 11.3 update may remove Rosetta 2 in some regions

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  • Reply 21 of 36
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 818member
    gerry g said:
    Planet Earth knowing Apple, should be left in fo all time  or at least available to dl and install as a standalone as per users requirements, a lot of good viable software will never be moved over by their respective vendors, going from Intel to M1 is not the same as going from Motorola to Intel, that equaled more choice this on the other hand equals less
    No - people need to move on.  Apple will move on and shouldn't waste resources maintaining old software, just to support developers who abandoned the apps.

    Motorola -> Intel offered no more choices.  You could only choose a Mac with the Intel processor Apple chose.  

    Motorola -> Intel is less than Intel -> M1 - Apple can choose to develop the CPU however they want, and not rely on any external chip designer.
    Rayz2016Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 36
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,927member
    Removing Rosetta would be a disaster for Apple Silicon in any region. Rosetta is the technology that gives a customer confidence that their software will likely run on M1 Macs. If Apple removes it anywhere, everyone will wonder if their region is next. Watch as sales plummet. It could not only be the end of Apple Silicon, it could be the end of the Mac itself. If this is a patent dispute, Apple should fight it or pay.
    This isn’t the end of the world. We have no idea if this will be used at all. Further a good deal of apps have native code already. Most of the apps I run use native code. 
    It doesn’t matter, it’s a confidence play and Apple have screwed this up royally!
    If Rosetta 2 infringes upon existing IP they should have gagged everyone whilst a protracted legal dispute ran its course. With major titles converting each month, diminishing Rosetta’s importance, they should have played for time.
    This will be all over the press and lacking/poor x86 support may kill the transition (and by abstraction the Mac) as it did with Microsoft. Presumably the engineer that slid this in is on MS/Intel payroll.
  • Reply 23 of 36
    Fidonet127Fidonet127 Posts: 472member
    mcdave said:
    Removing Rosetta would be a disaster for Apple Silicon in any region. Rosetta is the technology that gives a customer confidence that their software will likely run on M1 Macs. If Apple removes it anywhere, everyone will wonder if their region is next. Watch as sales plummet. It could not only be the end of Apple Silicon, it could be the end of the Mac itself. If this is a patent dispute, Apple should fight it or pay.
    This isn’t the end of the world. We have no idea if this will be used at all. Further a good deal of apps have native code already. Most of the apps I run use native code. 
    It doesn’t matter, it’s a confidence play and Apple have screwed this up royally!
    If Rosetta 2 infringes upon existing IP they should have gagged everyone whilst a protracted legal dispute ran its course. With major titles converting each month, diminishing Rosetta’s importance, they should have played for time.
    This will be all over the press and lacking/poor x86 support may kill the transition (and by abstraction the Mac) as it did with Microsoft. Presumably the engineer that slid this in is on MS/Intel payroll.
    So you say. In the real world, this code is not in production, nor does anyone but Apple know when this will be in play. In the meantime, many Apps have been updated with native code, and many apps are in production to be updated. Apple isn't going to stop the transition. I've seen many Apple "gate" stories which amounted to nothing. In the meantime Apple is selling lots of ASi Macs, while the resale value of Intel Macs has dropped. Were are the people who thought Apple couldn't support Thunderbolt on ASi Macs? Where are the people who thought Rosetta 2 would be a massive slowdown on apps? Opps, that didn't happen.
    Alex1Nradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 36
    larryjw said:
    lkrupp said:
    Happy_Noodle_Boy said:
    Peza said:
    I don't think anyone can speculate at present about this as we don't have anywhere near enough facts about it. This may even just be text that was entered in case it was needed, may have been to prepare for some potential issue they were facing that never happened etc. So for the moment I would take it at face value for what it is till we know more. 
    Are you suggesting people take a rational approach to this rather than dive head first into speculation and righteous indignation with an extra large side of hyperbole? 
    +10  <3


    Wy do people get so upset about rumors like this?  So code was discovered that purports to allow the removal of Rosetta 2. So what? That doesn’t mean it’s going to happen soon. The original Rosetta was around for several years before being removed. Do any of you actually think Apple would remove it now when, as the article points out, 50% of apps still require Intel? Really.

    I wish the glass-half-empty types would get a grip, especially @OutdoorAppDeveloper

    Just more clickbait from AI
    Adding code to remove Rosetta 2 is a big deal. At minimum, the addition of code is always a source for bugs. That also means you have to add code to your regression testing harness to make sure it doesn't break. 

    And anyone who has architected a system knows you don't add code or change code until it is needed and you know in detail the functions that will need to perform. Only a beginner adds or changes code just in case the boss might want it sometime in the future. 
    Did you just not read what you responded to?
    edited March 2021
  • Reply 25 of 36
    mcdave said:
    Removing Rosetta would be a disaster for Apple Silicon in any region. Rosetta is the technology that gives a customer confidence that their software will likely run on M1 Macs. If Apple removes it anywhere, everyone will wonder if their region is next. Watch as sales plummet. It could not only be the end of Apple Silicon, it could be the end of the Mac itself. If this is a patent dispute, Apple should fight it or pay.
    This isn’t the end of the world. We have no idea if this will be used at all. Further a good deal of apps have native code already. Most of the apps I run use native code. 
    It doesn’t matter, it’s a confidence play and Apple have screwed this up royally!
    If Rosetta 2 infringes upon existing IP they should have gagged everyone whilst a protracted legal dispute ran its course. With major titles converting each month, diminishing Rosetta’s importance, they should have played for time.
    This will be all over the press and lacking/poor x86 support may kill the transition (and by abstraction the Mac) as it did with Microsoft. Presumably the engineer that slid this in is on MS/Intel payroll.
    Yes, in absence of information it's always good to go with unsubstantiated conspiracy. The only reasonable course of action really. 
  • Reply 26 of 36
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    gerry g said:
    "What regions ?"

    Planet Earth knowing Apple, should be left in fo all time  or at least available to dl and install as a standalone as per users requirements, a lot of good viable software will never be moved over by their respective vendors, going from Intel to M1 is not the same as going from Motorola to Intel, that equaled more choice this on the other hand equals less
    Yes, it IS the same as going from Motorola to Intel. Exactly the same. When the first Rosetta was removed some users screamed bloody murder about it and demanded it be made available in perpetuity. The same argument ensues when an older Mac is barred from installing the newest macOS. Those demands are all about staying in place forever with no progress.

    Botton line, Apple didn’t give in back then and they won’t give in when Rosetta 2’s EOL is announced. A good many of us here actually went through that period when the PPC-to-Intel move and most of us didn’t suffer any deal-killing. Removing Rosetta 2 will signal developers that their time is up. Either go forward or fall by the wayside. Any “The Sky is Falling” rhetoric and predictions of mass exodus from the platform will be just as nonsensical today as they were back then. It won’t happen.

    So let’s revisit this topic in a year to see if the predictions of doom and failure presented here come true. What’s you guess?
    edited March 2021 Alex1NradarthekatFidonet127watto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 27 of 36
    Maybe they are simply building the structure in for when they finally remove the code down the line in a few years?  o:)

    More accurately in two years as this should be the case - when Catalina will lose support just like High Sierra lost this January. There are two versions behind to support and they are native for Intel CPU. Apple now releases new OS in one year cycle (which some consider way too fast). But is this enough so, to convince major software manufacturers to switch and retest their tools on M1 architecture? It is not the same as mainstream ARM as we know already from Linux ports (yes first one is already on M1 mac's and it was interesting to read report about that Apple new proprietary "standard" and its deficiencies. 
    radarthekat
  • Reply 28 of 36
    j2fusion said:
    Or, it could be because of an upcoming patent dispute. I cannot see any other reason why they would want to remove it since it works so well.  
    With Intel? Seems odd.
    Other sites have more information: 

    Back in 2017, when Microsoft began work on Windows 10 for ARM, the company announced x86 app emulation just like Apple. However, Intel threatened Microsoft by claiming that the x86 architecture has proprietary technologies and could not be emulated on other processors without permission.

    Although Windows 10 ARM was capable of emulating 32-bit apps from the x86 architecture, 64-bit app emulation was only recently added in an Insider Preview build — which could be related to Intel’s patents. Apple could be getting ready to face a similar dispute with its Rosetta 2 technology.

    ukrunrmuthuk_vanalingamdysamoriaDetnatormarcs
  • Reply 29 of 36
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    j2fusion said:
    Or, it could be because of an upcoming patent dispute. I cannot see any other reason why they would want to remove it since it works so well.  
    With Intel? Seems odd.
    Other sites have more information: 

    Back in 2017, when Microsoft began work on Windows 10 for ARM, the company announced x86 app emulation just like Apple. However, Intel threatened Microsoft by claiming that the x86 architecture has proprietary technologies and could not be emulated on other processors without permission.

    Although Windows 10 ARM was capable of emulating 32-bit apps from the x86 architecture, 64-bit app emulation was only recently added in an Insider Preview build — which could be related to Intel’s patents. Apple could be getting ready to face a similar dispute with its Rosetta 2 technology.

    I despise this industry. 
  • Reply 30 of 36
    PezaPeza Posts: 198member
    Peza said:
    I don't think anyone can speculate at present about this as we don't have anywhere near enough facts about it. This may even just be text that was entered in case it was needed, may have been to prepare for some potential issue they were facing that never happened etc. So for the moment I would take it at face value for what it is till we know more. 
    Are you suggesting people take a rational approach to this rather than dive head first into speculation and righteous indignation with an extra large side of hyperbole? 

    Heaven forbid no. I wouldn’t want to ruin anyone’s day full of crazy speculation, they are out to get me end of the world opinions. Lol. 

    edited March 2021 Fidonet127watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 36
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,308member
    What regions ?
    Arizona? The beginning of Apple's complete withdrawal of services to their new law?
  • Reply 32 of 36
    ya know, reading these comments, it's all just speculation from all of ya.

    Yes, Apple may or may not have figured out its own way of running x86_64 code on the M1, without violating Intel IP, or it may not.
    Also, knowing Apple, it's not a stretch to say their implementation DOES violate Intel IP in some way or another, or it may not.
    But if it does, Apple may just have internally thought to stick with it, because let's face it, they are one of the few ones to be able to get away with it in the long run I believe.

    Also it's entirely within the realm of possible that Apple KNEW it would violate Intel IP in one way or another, from the get-go, and also AGAIN just went with it anyway, to make the M1 a success. (Basically giving intel, like Steve did IBM years ago, the finger... behind closed doors. ;_)

    In any case, I think Apple is likely balls enough to keep Rosetta 2 around, in most of the western world where it matters, for at least this first 2 years of the announced transition time. And maybe, only maybe, given in to intel or whoever in say regions like Asia, or wherever Intel or whomever will be successful in court to stop Apple shipping Rosetta 2. If it even comes that far. Which I suspect it will not.

    As a serious side note to all this speculation, the pace of incoming native *-SI apps is happening at a really steady and fast pace, so it might not matter either way. Currently for my own MBA M1 the only real hold out is Adobe's Creative Crap, which I pirate anyway, because of my objection of subscription software. All the professional software I really need, ISN'T subscription based, and I already own legally, of which are most of the big name Adobe alternatives out there, most of which, like Pixelmator, Sketch, Affinity, Davinci Resolve etc, already have complete and successive native builds for Apple Silicon.

    So I'm good either way, I only keep Adobe's crap around because of stupid compatibility requirements with their native file formats... 

    (*Apple logo unicode char, reads as 'Apple' in case it isn't rendered correctly for others.)
    edited March 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 36
    marcsmarcs Posts: 2member
    UPDATE: It's a bug. Another reboot and got Rosetta to reinstall.

    Updated to macOS 11.3.1 and Rosetta is missing. Attempting to launch a legacy Intel application gives Rosetta needs to be installed... prompt. Attempting to do so gives  (after mac appears to rummage around the web for a second or two) Rosetta is not current available in your country or region.

    edited May 2021
  • Reply 34 of 36
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 818member
    marcs said:
    Updated to macOS 11.3.1 and Rosetta is missing. Attempting to launch a legacy Intel application gives Rosetta needs to be installed... prompt. Attempting to do so gives  (after mac appears to rummage around the web for a second or two) Rosetta is not current available in your country or region.

    Probably a legal issue in your country.  

    Did you try contacting Apple, or was the first thing you did was to come here and create an account to complain?

    This possibility was listed in the 11.3 update - you did read the update notes, right?
  • Reply 35 of 36
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,964moderator
    marcs said:
    Updated to macOS 11.3.1 and Rosetta is missing. Attempting to launch a legacy Intel application gives Rosetta needs to be installed... prompt. Attempting to do so gives  (after mac appears to rummage around the web for a second or two) Rosetta is not current available in your country or region.
    One thing to try is using a VPN, connect to another country or state and run the app and see if it installs Rosetta. Some users online that have mentioned it are in the US. If Apple was subjected to a lawsuit like they commonly are in Texas, it may be blocked in regions covered by the court jurisdiction. I expect Rosetta can probably be installed manually. Future OS updates will likely remove it again but it would just need reinstalled.

    It would be nice if Apple mentioned which regions but I guess they don't want to put people off buying, especially when a lot of people might not use software that needs Rosetta.
    edited May 2021 marcs
  • Reply 36 of 36
    marcsmarcs Posts: 2member
    nicholfd said:
    marcs said:
    Updated to macOS 11.3.1 and Rosetta is missing. Attempting to launch a legacy Intel application gives Rosetta needs to be installed... prompt. Attempting to do so gives  (after mac appears to rummage around the web for a second or two) Rosetta is not current available in your country or region.

    Probably a legal issue in your country.  

    Did you try contacting Apple, or was the first thing you did was to come here and create an account to complain?

    This possibility was listed in the 11.3 update - you did read the update notes, right?
    It would appear it's a real bug. Resolved and post updated as possible help to others. Thanks for the reply, with extra-snark. ;-)
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