Kuo: Apple AR headset to feature 15 cameras for 'pass-through' VR experience, biometrics

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited March 9
Apple's hotly anticipated augmented reality headset will be bristling with cameras to enable a range of advanced AR experiences, biometrics and more, according to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo.

Oculus Quest 2
Facebook's Oculus Quest 2 features four cameras.


Kuo in a note to investors on Tuesday predicted Apple to integrate a total of 15 cameras in an AR/MR headset rumored to launch in 2022. By comparison, existing VR hardware typically integrates between two and five cameras for interacting with the surrounding environment and performing image pass-through operations.

Eight camera modules, supplied mainly by Largan, are expected to be placed around the wearable "helmet" to facilitate pass-through VR, a technology that allows users to "see through" the enclosed device by feeding exterior images onto interior screens. Apple's product is said to utilize high-resolution MicroOLED displays.

Along with the eight cameras dedicated to pass-through VR, six modules will feed "innovative biometrics," Kuo says. It is unclear if the analyst is referencing user security biometrics -- like Face ID -- or the ability to capture facial features and body movements of others nearby for inclusion in a simulated experience.

Finally, a single camera module will be installed for environmental detection purposes.

Kuo outlined Apple's rumored headset in a report on Sunday. A first iteration expected to land in 2022 will boast its own processor and onboard storage, meaning it can operate without a connected iPhone or Mac. Deemed a portable device, the first-generation headset device is unlikely to be marketed as a mobile product.

Thanks to high specification hardware like MicroOLED screens and the 15-camera array, Kuo says Apple's first AR/MR wearable will deliver an "immersive experience that is significantly better than existing VR products."

Previous reports pegged the AR headset at $3,000, though Kuo said Apple will likely set a price closer to $1,000 to cover its complex design and construction.

Apple is also rumored to release a pair of AR glasses that leverage optical waveguide tech to overlay computer generated graphics onto real scenery. Dubbed "Apple Glass," the mobile device could be sold alongside the AR/MR headset and is anticipated to launch in 2025. The tech giant is also said to be working on a similar system based on contact lenses that could see introduction after 2030.

Kuo in today's report reiterates previous predictions about optics set to debut in next-generation iPhone models. For 2021, Face ID on iPhone will transition from a glass cover to plastic, while the 2022 model will rely on a "unibody" lens design that integrates the lens stack and voice coil motor into a single, space-saving assembly. Next year will also see Apple upgrade the telephoto shooter on high-end iPhones from a 6P lens array to a 7P stack.
patchythepirate

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 13
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,784member
    “15 cameras” should throw off the competition.
  • Reply 2 of 13
    PezaPeza Posts: 175member
    Kuo is literally throwing everything at a wall hoping something will stick. I admire his stupidity to predict the devices Apple will be launching in 2030. His reputation has dropped in my mind, but then he has been wrong before a few times but no one remembers that. 
    I’d wait till the product is actually launched or the same rumours stated by other well sources leakers to believe it.
    edited March 9 StrangeDays
  • Reply 3 of 13
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,421member
    Peza said:
    Kuo is literally throwing everything at a wall hoping something will stick. I admire his stupidity to predict the devices Apple will be launching in 2030. His reputation has dropped in my mind, but then he has been wrong before a few times but no one remembers that. 
    I’d wait till the product is actually launched or the same rumours stated by other well sources leakers to believe it.

    Yeah, I think that kind of a specific prediction is a little ridiculous.  It's one thing to say he expects an Apple car by 2025, or a headset by whatever time.  But speculating on the  number of cameras?  Predicting a separate camera for "environmental detection?"   This is getting as bad as the old MacOSrumors site predicting an octagonal Mac.  
  • Reply 4 of 13
    thedbathedba Posts: 568member
    Ming Chi Kuo may have an OK track record on existing products, however his predictions for not yet existing products are often as good as the rest of the analysts out there. Here's a good link from this site on his past predictions. 

    Ming-Chi Kuo | Reports, Rumors, Accuracy, History (appleinsider.com)

    Airtags were supposed to materialize in mid-2020. They haven't. 
    AirPods Max which he called "AirPods Studio" back in January 2020. They actually happened in December of 2020 but what's odd is that nothing was predicted in the few months preceding their release.
    Apple Glass to launch in Q2 of 2020. Result: Nada!
    August 2016: AMOLED iPad to launch in 2018.  Again zero.



  • Reply 5 of 13
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 908member
    Does Ming-Chi Kuo have some sort of contractual requirement to regularly include various superlatives when citing him as a source? "...according to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo..." With annoying regularity, Kuo citations come along with complementary proclamations of his accuracy, prowess, or whatever, to the extent that it's pretty wierd. Browse through the linked Kuo-cited articles on this site, and you'll find many predictions that were accurate, a fair number that weren't, and quite a few that probably get counted as correct, even though they predicted a thing, but were way off in the timing or some other aspect. He's surely a useful source for a rumors site, but if he was really all that and a bag of chips, I'd already have Air Tags, an apple phone/watch charging pad, Apple AR glasses and some other pretty interesting stuff.

    To be fair, it's not every time Kuo is cited, but sifting quickly through the last year or so of Kuo predictions on AI reveal these nuggets:
    • according to noted TF International Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo.
    • As one of the best-known Apple analysts, Ming-Chi Kuo is also regarded as one of the most accurate, both for features and supply chain data. 
    • Reliable Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo says...
    • Typically reliable analyst Ming-Chi Kuo claims that...
    • well-regarded analyst Ming-Chi Kuo says that...
    • ...according to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo
    • The typically reliable analyst Ming-Chi Kuo reports that...
    • Kuo, who has generally been highly accurate about Apple plans, confirms...
    Also to be fair, it's not just AI that employs these Kuo descriptors. My point is that these frequent and friendly bumps likely have more effect on Kuo's reputation than his actual level of accuracy in predicting Apple things. Interestingly, snipping these out revealed not only the array of predictions described above, but also that these snippets were quite frequently proximate to Kuo statements effectively taking a mulligan by revising previous predictions. 
    edited March 9 StrangeDaysJapheymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 6 of 13
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,153member
    AppleZulu said:
    Does Ming-Chi Kuo have some sort of contractual requirement to regularly include various superlatives when citing him as a source? "...according to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo..." With annoying regularity, Kuo citations come along with complementary proclamations of his accuracy, prowess, or whatever, to the extent that it's pretty wierd. Browse through the linked Kuo-cited articles on this site, and you'll find many predictions that were accurate, a fair number that weren't, and quite a few that probably get counted as correct, even though they predicted a thing, but were way off in the timing or some other aspect. He's surely a useful source for a rumors site, but if he was really all that and a bag of chips, I'd already have Air Tags, an apple phone/watch charging pad, Apple AR glasses and some other pretty interesting stuff.
    Yeah it is odd they always use that descriptor. I used to post a little pic of a well-connected skeleton guy ("Hip-bone is connected to the thigh bone") but they deleted them.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 7 of 13
    JapheyJaphey Posts: 547member
    AppleZulu said:
    Does Ming-Chi Kuo have some sort of contractual requirement to regularly include various superlatives when citing him as a source? "...according to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo..." With annoying regularity, Kuo citations come along with complementary proclamations of his accuracy, prowess, or whatever, to the extent that it's pretty wierd. Browse through the linked Kuo-cited articles on this site, and you'll find many predictions that were accurate, a fair number that weren't, and quite a few that probably get counted as correct, even though they predicted a thing, but were way off in the timing or some other aspect. He's surely a useful source for a rumors site, but if he was really all that and a bag of chips, I'd already have Air Tags, an apple phone/watch charging pad, Apple AR glasses and some other pretty interesting stuff.

    To be fair, it's not every time Kuo is cited, but sifting quickly through the last year or so of Kuo predictions on AI reveal these nuggets:
    • according to noted TF International Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo.
    • As one of the best-known Apple analysts, Ming-Chi Kuo is also regarded as one of the most accurate, both for features and supply chain data. 
    • Reliable Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo says...
    • Typically reliable analyst Ming-Chi Kuo claims that...
    • well-regarded analyst Ming-Chi Kuo says that...
    • ...according to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo
    • The typically reliable analyst Ming-Chi Kuo reports that...
    • Kuo, who has generally been highly accurate about Apple plans, confirms...
    Also to be fair, it's not just AI that employs these Kuo descriptors. My point is that these frequent and friendly bumps likely have more effect on Kuo's reputation than his actual level of accuracy in predicting Apple things. Interestingly, snipping these out revealed not only the array of predictions described above, but also that these snippets were quite frequently proximate to Kuo statements effectively taking a mulligan by revising previous predictions. 
    You may be onto something here, lol. Also, if you notice, Prosser is almost always referred to as the “serial leaker”. 
  • Reply 8 of 13
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 898member
    Japhey said:
    AppleZulu said:
    Does Ming-Chi Kuo have some sort of contractual requirement to regularly include various superlatives when citing him as a source? "...according to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo..." With annoying regularity, Kuo citations come along with complementary proclamations of his accuracy, prowess, or whatever, to the extent that it's pretty wierd. Browse through the linked Kuo-cited articles on this site, and you'll find many predictions that were accurate, a fair number that weren't, and quite a few that probably get counted as correct, even though they predicted a thing, but were way off in the timing or some other aspect. He's surely a useful source for a rumors site, but if he was really all that and a bag of chips, I'd already have Air Tags, an apple phone/watch charging pad, Apple AR glasses and some other pretty interesting stuff.

    To be fair, it's not every time Kuo is cited, but sifting quickly through the last year or so of Kuo predictions on AI reveal these nuggets:
    • according to noted TF International Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo.
    • As one of the best-known Apple analysts, Ming-Chi Kuo is also regarded as one of the most accurate, both for features and supply chain data. 
    • Reliable Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo says...
    • Typically reliable analyst Ming-Chi Kuo claims that...
    • well-regarded analyst Ming-Chi Kuo says that...
    • ...according to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo
    • The typically reliable analyst Ming-Chi Kuo reports that...
    • Kuo, who has generally been highly accurate about Apple plans, confirms...
    Also to be fair, it's not just AI that employs these Kuo descriptors. My point is that these frequent and friendly bumps likely have more effect on Kuo's reputation than his actual level of accuracy in predicting Apple things. Interestingly, snipping these out revealed not only the array of predictions described above, but also that these snippets were quite frequently proximate to Kuo statements effectively taking a mulligan by revising previous predictions. 
    You may be onto something here, lol. Also, if you notice, Prosser is almost always referred to as the “serial leaker”. 
    I can't remember the name, but one of those guys was described as a "reliable leaker". Talk about an oxymoron.
  • Reply 9 of 13
    An Apple product with 15 cameras will not be $1,000, considering they sell mediocre headphones for $549 with no cameras.  This will likely be a niche $3,000 product that people might play with in a store (when it is safe) and leave on the shelf without buying.

    Remember Google Glass?  Yeah, no one else does either.
  • Reply 10 of 13
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,277member
    An Apple product with 15 cameras will not be $1,000, considering they sell mediocre headphones for $549 with no cameras.  This will likely be a niche $3,000 product that people might play with in a store (when it is safe) and leave on the shelf without buying.

    Remember Google Glass?  Yeah, no one else does either.
    Another commenter who has clearly never used VR. This is going to be absolutely nothing like Google Glass. I don't believe it'll be $3K but I'm already planning to buy one sight unseen at this point.
  • Reply 11 of 13
    JapheyJaphey Posts: 547member
    An Apple product with 15 cameras will not be $1,000, considering they sell mediocre headphones for $549 with no cameras.  This will likely be a niche $3,000 product that people might play with in a store (when it is safe) and leave on the shelf without buying.

    Remember Google Glass?  Yeah, no one else does either.
    Another commenter who has clearly never used VR. This is going to be absolutely nothing like Google Glass. I don't believe it'll be $3K but I'm already planning to buy one sight unseen at this point.
    I don’t think it will cost 3k either. I have a feeling they’ll surprise everyone with the price like they did with first iPad. Remember all the “experts” were predicting it would debut for $999? Then Apple released it for $499 and everyone was surprised?  

    Anyway, I’m all in on Gen 1 of these things too. I waited a few generations until the Watch matured, but I’ll be buying these on day one…whenever that happens to be. 
  • Reply 12 of 13
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,701member
    It's interesting that as Apple closes the processor design and manufacturing loop, going from externally produced processors to Apple silicon, that the distinction between classes of devices, such as the Mac, iPad and iPhone might increasingly blur. Enter then Apple AR/VR headsets and Apple Glass. Is it possible that one day, 'desktop' computing might be conducted by donning a headset and by waving ones hands in the air? A 32" 6k monitor might by then seem cute (as in horse and buggy cute).
  • Reply 13 of 13
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,501member
    Honestly, who in the hell is asking for this R&D Project? I mean seriously, if you can't get a decent gaming experience for AAA games, who in their right effing mind would spend $3k+ on an effing head set for AR based games?

    Meanwhile, EPYC 3 arrives next week and Zen 4 engineering samples near testing for Frontier Supercomputer and more OEM vendors that blow the doors off of their predecessor arrive this quarter  showing the genius of AMD merging with Xilinx.

    Instead of increasing options for computing we are seeing less and less professional options and soon people will realize the 14 years of ARM development that people think will sprout wings and take over the world in General Purpose Computing [Consumer/Professional Desktop/Workstations] will soon discover that the future of M series processors has some very hard limits. And those limits will be forcing Apple to push for major changes in ARM architectures or just breaking from it all together.

    EPYC 4 Genoa is coming out with 96 cores/ 192 threads, 4TB of DDR5 ECC memory announced this Fall for Spring 2022 delivery. Just like clock work with Su and Co. Oh and CDNA 2.0 arrives this Fall with 128 GB HBM2e and Xilinx Engines on massive Compute only cards that would hugely benefit Mac Pros but we'll never see them, and yet fans still have it in their head that Apple somehow is more advanced than AMD's upcoming MCM based multi-GPU chiplets on a single card solution with their unified Memory path of Infinity Fabric 3.0. Or more to the point, they somehow invented unified memory as a first in the industry, completely showing how no one knows this has been done more than once before and recently.

    But hey, people here are all a lather about M2 and whatever that brings and VR/AR head sets, while spitting on an actual EV that has a far greater impact on the future that they consider just vaporware.

    Apple will continue to push their targets for future Macs back as they come up against more design issues that don't match their rhetoric and hype of last year's WWDC. People seem to forget the M1 is not a new processor, but a 14 year result processor for light weight computing. 

    Meanwhile, Microsoft is full steam ahead with both AMD and Intel for their Surface 4 lines, and not ARM.


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