I say lets see how good the new factory is first. If they can meet Apple's spec then its good to have manufacturing in different geographical locations.
I would also say that Intel should get the low end chip business first so they don't copy Apple's latest and greatest.
Do we remember the times in which Apple made the chips in Samsung's factories and Samsung copied the technology? They copied the ads… Why not the chips? (They copy so wrongly the ads that the future of their chip is in serious condition.)
Samsung copied the iPhone, not Apple's chips. Samsung semiconductor did get caught passing Apple's agreements to Samsung Mobile, given Samsung a heads-up on what Apple was planning next.
The first iPhones (iPhone, 3G, 3GS) were actually built around Samsung processors. Starting with the A4 in iPhone , which shared the same Intrinsity-designed Cortex A8 core with Samsung's mobile processor of the time, Samsung and Apple processors diverged. Apple bought Intrinsity after the A4 was done, and every Apple ARM SoC after that was in its own league (likely also thanks to the low-power/high performance IP they had acquired with PA-Semi). Samsung tried to replicate this with their Mongoose processors, but while somewhat performant, they were also (too) hot. I don't remember Samsung's chip manufacturing arm sharing information with the rest of Samsung, I thought they were firewalled-off pretty well.
Apple decided to part with Samsung chip manufacturing primarily because Google introduced the new Android smartphone with HTC at fall of 2009. Then Samsung announced its Android phones in 2010. The iPhone was in the fourth generation then.
This CEO transition and infusion of new ideas remind me of the Ballmer-Nadella transition. I consider Microsoft to be in a better position now (and more open - support for Linux? amazing), and this Intel transition seems similar to me (more open - a new business unit for foundry services? collaboration with IBM? amazing).
Do we remember the times in which Apple made the chips in Samsung's factories and Samsung copied the technology? They copied the ads… Why not the chips? (They copy so wrongly the ads that the future of their chip is in serious condition.)
Samsung copied the iPhone, not Apple's chips. Samsung semiconductor did get caught passing Apple's agreements to Samsung Mobile, given Samsung a heads-up on what Apple was planning next.
The first iPhones (iPhone, 3G, 3GS) were actually built around Samsung processors. Starting with the A4 in iPhone , which shared the same Intrinsity-designed Cortex A8 core with Samsung's mobile processor of the time, Samsung and Apple processors diverged. Apple bought Intrinsity after the A4 was done, and every Apple ARM SoC after that was in its own league (likely also thanks to the low-power/high performance IP they had acquired with PA-Semi). Samsung tried to replicate this with their Mongoose processors, but while somewhat performant, they were also (too) hot. I don't remember Samsung's chip manufacturing arm sharing information with the rest of Samsung, I thought they were firewalled-off pretty well.
Apple decided to part with Samsung chip manufacturing primarily because Google introduced the new Android smartphone with HTC at fall of 2009. Then Samsung announced its Android phones in 2010. The iPhone was in the fourth generation then.
iPhone 6 used either a TSMC SOC or a Samsung SOC, so Apple doesn't have an issue with Samsung per se, other than TSMC consistently has better performance, and most importantly, is investing at a scale to meets Apple's requirements; a virtuous cycle for both TSMC and Apple.
One of the problems with using your tiny little expensive space heaters was you couldn't keep on schedule. Your OWN schedule. Why should we trust you to stay on our schedule with our more advanced and efficient chips, especially when they're competing against your tiny little obsolete space heaters?
No thanks.
And that's why we don't have IBM G5 chips in Macs.
Overall, this is indeed the right direction for Intel. However, realistically, this is something they should have done 10 years ago. I'd like to see Intel succeed in order to keep US based manufacturing.. Not just plants in the US, but companies based in the US.
Short term concern - Intel's current manufacturing process isn't competitive with either TSMC or even Samsung.
Long term concern - Intel has had a really bad track record for missing targets and even quality issues over the past 10 years. I'm not optimistic they'll turn that around overnight.
Additional concerns - Intel is accustomed to high margins. They're not going to get that in the fabrication business. How competitive will they be?
If Intel can make it and be competitive with TSMC and Samsung, then absolutely Apple should engage with them. No way they would do as some suggest and play hardball because of soreness over a couple of ads.
Why? Maybe because Apple should reschedule so many times the release of new Mac models, because Intel wasn’t ready with its chips? At the moment Intel is a sick company, company in crisis.
In place of their misleading adds against Apple, they should use their resources to think about, how can they reorganize their own company. How can they make a progress in production of new modern chips, so they can make the company competitive again. But no! The Intel’s CEO decided to act like the other two losers: Zuckerberg and Sweeney
They are reorganising the company, that what this article is about! You're exclusively focussing on the acts of the marketing department and ignoring what the rest of the business is doing, all while criticising it.
No one is saying that Apple should get themselves in a position where they are totally reliant on Intel for A and M series chips, but having another supplier would not be a bad thing. Diversified supply chains are better at dealing with production problems.
Obviously if Intel aren't up to the task then don't use them, but that's what talks and trial production runs are there to establish.
I would like nothing more, than to see Intel as a reliable partner for Apple. I would love it.
But they need to reorganize to be able to meet Apple's demands.
This should be the priority number one of the new CEO, not the stupid adds. I can’t imagine that the marketing department started this campaign without permission and knowledge of the CEO.
And this is why I have my doubts about this manager.
Again, they are reorganising, and it's costing them $20bn, far more than a series of adverts, and a far higher priority. You seem to think that Intel and its CEO can't do more than one thing at the same time.
From the article:
Intel on Tuesday announced it will invest some $20 billion to build a pair of chip fabs in Ocotillo, Arizona, with plans to dedicate at least a portion of the output to a new foundry subsidiary, reports CNBC.
Called Intel Foundry Services, Intel's new chip manufacturing arm will produce the silicon based on the company's favored x86 architecture, as well as ARM designs like those used in Apple's A- and M-series SoCs. Intel senior vice president Randhir Thakur is in charge of the operation.
Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger told press that IFS will be run as its own unit and is currently working with Amazon, Cisco, IBM and Microsoft on the initiative, according to Engadget. The company is also looking to gain Apple's interest.
Again, I can’t take seriously, a manager who is leading two months long a media campaign against Apple, to say today that he is looking to gain Apple’s interest. Is it Gelsinger’s long term vision about the future of his company only two months ahead?
And again, I will be very happy if Intel and Apple can find each other.
Do we remember the times in which Apple made the chips in Samsung's factories and Samsung copied the technology? They copied the ads… Why not the chips? (They copy so wrongly the ads that the future of their chip is in serious condition.)
Did they really?
You'd think that pulling shenanigans like that would spell the death of a chip fab's business.
This is just speculation, but at one time many years ago there was some investigation that Apple and Google where too close due to some anti monopoly law, and the companies started half hearted campaigns attacking each other. Intel’s really bad attack on Apple makes me think that it maybe was a decoy? Could it be seen as some monopoly situation if intel started making all apple’s chips? I don’t remember the exact circumstances of Apple/Google, but this was sometime before Steve Jobs went thermonuclear war with Google.
Apple and Google had a conflict when Apple stopped making Google the default search engine in iOS, and again when Apple Maps came out and replaced Google Maps as rhe standard mapping/nav app in iOS. In fact, Google removed the Google Maps app from the App Store for awhile.
Designing for 7nm is one thing. Manufacturing at 7nm is another and everybody knows it. It would be great if Intel could get there, perhaps with federal stimulus, but I don't see how they can do it anytime soon or become price-competitive ever. Actually, they should be "skating" now toward 5nm or less to be competitive.
Sorry Intel, you had your chance to stay ahead of the curve...but you blew it. Time for a market shake-up. Here’s hoping any new player(s) stay on local soil.
Do we remember the times in which Apple made the chips in Samsung's factories and Samsung copied the technology? They copied the ads… Why not the chips? (They copy so wrongly the ads that the future of their chip is in serious condition.)
Is it that easy to copy chip designs? I am sure there are IPs and patents to protect such scenarios.
What Samsung had was advanced knowledge of what Apple was doing chip wise, and that knowledge helped them copy faster, Intel is done, and in time Qualcomm will have that same rearview position in modems.
If Intel can make it and be competitive with TSMC and Samsung, then absolutely Apple should engage with them. No way they would do as some suggest and play hardball because of soreness over a couple of ads.
Why? Maybe because Apple should reschedule so many times the release of new Mac models, because Intel wasn’t ready with its chips? At the moment Intel is a sick company, company in crisis.
In place of their misleading adds against Apple, they should use their resources to think about, how can they reorganize their own company. How can they make a progress in production of new modern chips, so they can make the company competitive again. But no! The Intel’s CEO decided to act like the other two losers: Zuckerberg and Sweeney
They are reorganising the company, that what this article is about! You're exclusively focussing on the acts of the marketing department and ignoring what the rest of the business is doing, all while criticising it.
No one is saying that Apple should get themselves in a position where they are totally reliant on Intel for A and M series chips, but having another supplier would not be a bad thing. Diversified supply chains are better at dealing with production problems.
Obviously if Intel aren't up to the task then don't use them, but that's what talks and trial production runs are there to establish.
They (Intel) are woefully behind, Apple will be into the 5th or 6th generation before Intel can get to first base.
Designing for 7nm is one thing. Manufacturing at 7nm is another and everybody knows it. It would be great if Intel could get there, perhaps with federal stimulus, but I don't see how they can do it anytime soon or become price-competitive ever. Actually, they should be "skating" now toward 5nm or less to be competitive.
Too big a bite of the Apple is what got them in this process jam in the first place. Doubling down on the mistake only made it worse. Hopefully they had someone good working on a completely new process way-back in the back of the lab to jump start the process
Besides being antagonistic, jealous, and petulant with silly ads that ignore Apple's massive performance edge, Intel's 7nm process has failed again, and is a year delayed, at least. TSMC made FIVE nanometer process chips for Apple at high yields and the M1 has been shipping for months. Why would anyone even consider crippling their operation by using a demonstrably inferior fab process, unproven and plagued by delays and failures? By the time Intel can make an M1 Apple will be on their 3rd gen SOC.
Comments
I would also say that Intel should get the low end chip business first so they don't copy Apple's latest and greatest.
And that's why we don't have IBM G5 chips in Macs.
They do make servers and mother boards.
Short term concern - Intel's current manufacturing process isn't competitive with either TSMC or even Samsung.
Long term concern - Intel has had a really bad track record for missing targets and even quality issues over the past 10 years. I'm not optimistic they'll turn that around overnight.
Additional concerns - Intel is accustomed to high margins. They're not going to get that in the fabrication business. How competitive will they be?
You'd think that pulling shenanigans like that would spell the death of a chip fab's business.
Have you seen this documented somewhere?
What Samsung had was advanced knowledge of what Apple was doing chip wise, and that knowledge helped them copy faster, Intel is done, and in time Qualcomm will have that same rearview position in modems.
They (Intel) are woefully behind, Apple will be into the 5th or 6th generation before Intel can get to first base.