Judge caps in-person attendance for Apple v. Epic Games trial

Posted:
in General Discussion
The judge presiding over the upcoming Apple and Epic Games bench trial has placed a cap on the number of in-person attendees, citing coronavirus concerns.

Credit: Epic Games
Credit: Epic Games


U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers placed limits on the number of people who can attend the trial, which is slated to kick off on May 3 and is likely to be held in-person. Previously, Judge Rogers said the case is important enough to warrant an in-person meeting rather than a virtual session.

Apple and Epic Games will each be able to have six people in the courtroom at a time, Judge Rogers decided. All people must wear masks, regardless of whether or not they are fully vaccinated against coronavirus, Law360 reported Monday.

Members of the press and the public will not be allowed to attend the trial in-person, but live audio of the proceedings will be provided.

Each side will have 45 hours to present their case. The court will hear testimony from a number of high-profile witnesses, including Apple CEO Tim Cook and Apple Fellow Phil Schiller.

The case originates from a lawsuit that Epic Games levied against Apple in 2020 after baiting the Cupertino tech giant into removing "Fortnite" from the App Store. Epic Games, which plans to call witnesses from third-party companies like Facebook and Microsoft, has accused Apple of controlling markets, blocking competition, and stifling innovation.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 17
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,520member
    Has anyone found Scott Forstall yet?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 17
    Also, is that a rainbow donkey with a bite out of its neck? I don’t play fortnite, so i have no idea what that’s supposed to be. 

    I hope something comes out of this case that gets apple to lower their cut of the profits. I don’t care how you justify it to yourselves; a 30% take on every sale is total bs. There’s nothing even remotely close to that on any other system. The only justification anyone has for that take is based on pure speculation. There in lies the problem, especially in the a la carte time of cloud services and low network transaction fee crypto currencies. Something has to give. 
  • Reply 3 of 17
    Also, is that a rainbow donkey with a bite out of its neck? I don’t play fortnite, so i have no idea what that’s supposed to be. 

    I hope something comes out of this case that gets apple to lower their cut of the profits. I don’t care how you justify it to yourselves; a 30% take on every sale is total bs. There’s nothing even remotely close to that on any other system. The only justification anyone has for that take is based on pure speculation. There in lies the problem, especially in the a la carte time of cloud services and low network transaction fee crypto currencies. Something has to give. 
    It’s not BS. Thirty percent is the industry standard. https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut-is-actually-the-industry-standard
    mwhiteforegoneconclusionaderutteraustinbazeronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 17
    jeffreytgilbert said: I hope something comes out of this case that gets apple to lower their cut of the profits. I don’t care how you justify it to yourselves; a 30% take on every sale is total bs. 
    FYI per Epic: the 12% doesn't include covering the transactional costs for the developer. If the developer wants Epic to cover transactional costs (like Apple does in the App Store), the cut goes up to 25%. Also, Apple has lowered the cut to 15% for developers making less than one million (while still covering transactions), so you can make an argument that Epic is actually more expensive now compared to Apple for smaller developers. 
    aderutterrob53muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 17
    aderutteraderutter Posts: 478member
    Oh, and it’s Apple’s store so they should be able to take 90% if they wanted. Nobody is making companies make games for iOS devices.
    rob53austinbazeronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 17
    aderutteraderutter Posts: 478member
    If Apple lose I’m kinda hoping they shut the app store. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 17
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,471member
    aderutter said:
    If Apple lose I’m kinda hoping they shut the app store. 
    Yep, shut it down and let developers create their own app stores or let third party app stores deal with developers. That’s how it used to be in the Mac world and still is today. Developers use third party payment systems that probably charge just as much as Apple does and profit from developers because they have no other way to do business. Of course the big guys will be fine. The little guys will be left twisting in the wind.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 17
    When you rent a premise, you read and sign a lease.  It includes terms, conditions, and costs.  Deciding the rent is too high years later gets you laughed out of court.

    There is an agreement for listing in the Apple App Store too.  I bet it has terms and conditions and costs spelled out too.  Don't like the rent?  Move.  How is a judge even hearing this piece of dreck case?
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 17
    When you rent a premise, you read and sign a lease.  It includes terms, conditions, and costs.  Deciding the rent is too high years later gets you laughed out of court.

    There is an agreement for listing in the Apple App Store too.  I bet it has terms and conditions and costs spelled out too.  Don't like the rent?  Move.  How is a judge even hearing this piece of dreck case?
    Except in the world of mobile, there are only tel landlords in the world. And this is the problem.
  • Reply 10 of 17
    dvdbhlr said:
    Also, is that a rainbow donkey with a bite out of its neck? I don’t play fortnite, so i have no idea what that’s supposed to be. 

    I hope something comes out of this case that gets apple to lower their cut of the profits. I don’t care how you justify it to yourselves; a 30% take on every sale is total bs. There’s nothing even remotely close to that on any other system. The only justification anyone has for that take is based on pure speculation. There in lies the problem, especially in the a la carte time of cloud services and low network transaction fee crypto currencies. Something has to give. 
    It’s not BS. Thirty percent is the industry standard. https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut-is-actually-the-industry-standard
    Industry standard? No. It’s the standard apple set and that iphone cloners followed. This isnt based on cost. 

    edited March 27
  • Reply 11 of 17
    aderutter said:
    Oh, and it’s Apple’s store so they should be able to take 90% if they wanted. Nobody is making companies make games for iOS devices.
    I’m well aware it’s apples store. That’s not what i was debating. I was debating how much of a ripoff it is, which it absolutely is a ripoff for developers. You’re telling me that masterclass, who hosts all their streaming video content, pays to produce all their content, runs almost their whole operation using a web view in an app shell and so absorb almost all the cost of everything for their app including the media spend advertising their service on tv somehow owe apple a 30% cut on every purchase that goes through their app just because they’re forced to use apple as a merchant? I STRONGLY disagree. If this were purely on the web, the equivalent costs to develop would be nearly identical to the developer, but the merchant fees to handle transactions would be an actual industry standard rate which is MASSIVELY lower than 30%. Anyone who disagrees has absolutely not done any homework on this or is shilling for apple. 
  • Reply 12 of 17
    dvdbhlr said:
    Also, is that a rainbow donkey with a bite out of its neck? I don’t play fortnite, so i have no idea what that’s supposed to be. 

    I hope something comes out of this case that gets apple to lower their cut of the profits. I don’t care how you justify it to yourselves; a 30% take on every sale is total bs. There’s nothing even remotely close to that on any other system. The only justification anyone has for that take is based on pure speculation. There in lies the problem, especially in the a la carte time of cloud services and low network transaction fee crypto currencies. Something has to give. 
    It’s not BS. Thirty percent is the industry standard. https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut-is-actually-the-industry-standard
    Industry standard? No. It’s the standard apple set and that iphone cloners followed. This isnt based on cost. 

    You sound like the person who thinks that the Bill of Materials of an iPhone should be the selling price if the iPhone - failing to understand associated costs that need to be taken care of.
    johnb0529watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 17
    Industry standard? No. It’s the standard apple set and that iphone cloners followed. This isnt based on cost. 

    so I assume you agree equally that Microsoft (Xbox) and Sony (PlayStation) also overcharge game manufacturers at the 30% to be on their platforms?  

    You cannot compare the cost of processing the CC payment to the cost of operating the App Store!  You are completely ignoring server farm costs, bandwidth, develop and maintenance of AppStore, staffing to review Apps for safety, marketing, etc.

    by your logic retail stores should only make 3% on the merchandise they sell and not 30-90%!

    and I am sure Epic can remember the days their software sold in retail stores, who took 40%, and they had the added cost of production and whole-sellers!

    But yes, Apple owes it to everyone to just given them a free store to sell in 🤦‍♂️!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 17
    Has anyone found Scott Forstall yet?
    Apparently he sent out a tweet last week: Scott Forstall on Mac OS X’s 20th Anniversary
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 17

    When you rent a premise, you read and sign a lease.  It includes terms, conditions, and costs.  Deciding the rent is too high years later gets you laughed out of court.

    There is an agreement for listing in the Apple App Store too.  I bet it has terms and conditions and costs spelled out too.  Don't like the rent?  Move.  How is a judge even hearing this piece of dreck case?
    Except in the world of mobile, there are only tel landlords in the world. And this is the problem.
    And in the world of game-specific devices, there are only a handful of systems - yet Epic has no problem with paying 30% commission to be on those platforms. It has even defended the cut those platforms take (https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-07-31-30-percent-store-tax-is-a-high-cost-says-sweeney-as-fortnite-skips-google-play).

    There's a long-standing idea in business: charge what the market will bear. Is 30% high? Yes. It is unbearable? That's now up for debate. But for the last decade and more, it has been deemed acceptable enough.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 17
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,749member
    aderutter said:
    Oh, and it’s Apple’s store so they should be able to take 90% if they wanted. Nobody is making companies make games for iOS devices.
    I’m well aware it’s apples store. That’s not what i was debating. I was debating how much of a ripoff it is, which it absolutely is a ripoff for developers. You’re telling me that masterclass, who hosts all their streaming video content, pays to produce all their content, runs almost their whole operation using a web view in an app shell and so absorb almost all the cost of everything for their app including the media spend advertising their service on tv somehow owe apple a 30% cut on every purchase that goes through their app just because they’re forced to use apple as a merchant? I STRONGLY disagree. If this were purely on the web, the equivalent costs to develop would be nearly identical to the developer, but the merchant fees to handle transactions would be an actual industry standard rate which is MASSIVELY lower than 30%. Anyone who disagrees has absolutely not done any homework on this or is shilling for apple. 
    So why does the Masterclass app exist then?  If they could publish solely to the web and handle the payment for much less than 30% then why don't they?

    It's because presence on the App Store gets them exposure and engagement that is worth 30% to them.  The same can be said for every app in the store.  And that exposure and engagement is a product of Apple's App Store and platform.  Apple have something of value, and they're selling it. 
    edited April 20
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