Apple reveals further details about AirTag's anti-stalking feature

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 57
    WTHWTH Posts: 25member
    jd_in_sb said:
    Such a bummer that air tags can’t be used for anti-theft. That was the killer app. 
    Apple doesn't want the bad press of clickbait article titled "APPLE AIRTAGS USED TO STALK INNOCENT VICTIMS!" and the like.  Of course, there are already a multitude of products that you can buy to stalk someone, and no one cares.  But this will be Apple, and the haters will have a field day.

    Hopefully Tile will quit screwing around and release their own "Find My" enabled anti-theft trackers.  If they wait much longer, Chipolo will steal that market right out from under them.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 57
    NumNuts said:
    @Happy_Noodle_Boy Thanks! But presumably the first scenario still applies so? 
    I'm  not entirely sure. The movement info comes from Apple, I haven't seen where Apple has confirmed the three day thing so I have no clue how exactly that works. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 57
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,024member
    I'm glad people are finally discussing the issues. As I've said before, once people start to understand how it works there will be some pushback. It's inevitable that some governments in the world might make AirTags and their competitors illegal, perhaps even citing "national security concerns." And some of those countries may introduce their own "legal" Tag technology, which will allow users to do much the same thing but will also allow the government to track the Tag itself. These governments could also build detectors in busy public places to detect and confiscate non-approved Tags.
    AirTags are irrelevant to your story here. Those governments can do whatever you said there already. 
    Happy_Noodle_Boywatto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 57
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,024member
    You folks realize that Apple has teraflops of iPhone tracking data that they’ve used to model probabilities in every imaginable scenario. They have gobs of statistical data on timing, travel behavior and everything else. Then they made a bunch of these tags, deployed them for alpha and beta testing and compared that information to their prior modeling to tweak things further, creating a sophisticated back end that will further analyze everything constantly and all over again when these things are released into the wild, modifying and updating how they respond to user behaviors on the fly. 

    Chances are pretty good that they’ve already got predictive modeling that can almost instantly tell the difference between a stalker, a stolen bag, and a toddler who’s wandered off in the women’s section at Target. 

    Yet, you’re sure after skimming an article that you’ve figured out how they’ll all go wrong as soon as anyone has one. Will actual use of millions of these things yield low-probability outliers that surprise? Absolutely. But it’s probably not going to be the scenario somebody here came up with after two minutes thought. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 57
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,350moderator
    There are some very sad members of the He-Man Woman Haters Club working through their social awkwardness in this thread.

    Deeply detailed date rape/cheating girlfriend scenarios are reminiscent of OJ’s famous “if I had killed Nicole, this is how I would have done it” musings.
    Or, at least in my cheating girlfriend case, where you failed to note that I specifically called out that that would be the scenario for me as I’m a man who dates females but could apply to any combination, it doesn’t suggest misogyny but instead is simply one example to raise the issue for discussion, specifically because, again as I called out, it’s unethical to use electronic eavesdropping or stalking even if you suspect your husband/boyfriend/wife/girlfriend is cheating.  I guess in some people’s worlds you must NEVER use as an example anything that might offend some discreet group.  Happily, I don’t live in those worlds; I live in reality.  

    And...  discuss... 
    edited April 23 beowulfschmidtmobirdwatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 46 of 57
    I would like them to solve for antitheft use-case as well. Would love to be able to hide a tag in my bicycle, motorcycle and panniers. Living in the PNW there's a lot of theft, so leaving my bike to go for a walk is a risk, airtags would've been the perfect solution.
    Agreed. And given Apple specifically market them for use with bikes they are at least implying that use case. After all, who 'forgets' their bike. Stolen, however... I have a specialist push bike and I'd certainly like one of these to hide in it should it get stolen. Then again, I think the diameter slightly too wide to place in any of its tubes. That's the other thing, if you attach it to a bag or handbag in a way that is easily located or on one of the accompanying straps, someone can just remove it.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 57
    crowleycrowley Posts: 7,831member
    There’s a use case within that three day stalking window that, while unethical, is certainly feasible.   Your partner, I’ll use girlfriend as that’s my situation...  your girlfriend goes out occasionally for a girls’ night out and returns home well past midnight.  You become suspicious so tag her handbag or even car before she goes out.  Then, a few times during the evening you search for that air tag.  She’s not going to get alerted, but you’ll know if she’s no longer at the restaurant or club she claims the girls frequent.  You’ll potentially even know the hotel or residential address where she went, assuming she’s cheating.  And she’ll be back within 24 hours, or less if she’s trying to cover her tracks; she’s not likely to not come home for three days.   
    Here's another use case, girlfriend finds the AirTag, dumps your creepy ass and tells everyone you know what a loser you are.
  • Reply 48 of 57
    muaddibmuaddib Posts: 77member
    How long do you have to be in the presence of a strange airtag moving with you before you get notified of it's presence (minutes? hours?)
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 57
    lostkiwilostkiwi Posts: 632member
    There’s a use case within that three day stalking window that, while unethical, is certainly feasible.   Your partner, I’ll use girlfriend as that’s my situation...  your girlfriend goes out occasionally for a girls’ night out and returns home well past midnight.  You become suspicious so tag her handbag or even car before she goes out.  Then, a few times during the evening you search for that air tag.  She’s not going to get alerted, but you’ll know if she’s no longer at the restaurant or club she claims the girls frequent.  You’ll potentially even know the hotel or residential address where she went, assuming she’s cheating.  And she’ll be back within 24 hours, or less if she’s trying to cover her tracks; she’s not likely to not come home for three days.   
    Hi Radar, my understanding is that the 3 day window only applies to the Airbags automatically emitting a sound if their paired iPhone has not been nearby for that time.  In your scenario above Apple say that the Airtag will know if it is moving along with somebody who does not have their paired phone.  It will pop up an alert on the girlfriends Find My app where she can tell it to emit the sound to find said Airtag.  Then you are busted.

    I assume they would have tested the heck out of this to ensure it works as described.
    edited April 23 watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 57
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,341member
    crowley said:
    There’s a use case within that three day stalking window that, while unethical, is certainly feasible.   Your partner, I’ll use girlfriend as that’s my situation...  your girlfriend goes out occasionally for a girls’ night out and returns home well past midnight.  You become suspicious so tag her handbag or even car before she goes out.  Then, a few times during the evening you search for that air tag.  She’s not going to get alerted, but you’ll know if she’s no longer at the restaurant or club she claims the girls frequent.  You’ll potentially even know the hotel or residential address where she went, assuming she’s cheating.  And she’ll be back within 24 hours, or less if she’s trying to cover her tracks; she’s not likely to not come home for three days.   
    Here's another use case, girlfriend finds the AirTag, dumps your creepy ass and tells everyone you know what a loser you are.
    How would she know it's her boyfriend's AirTag, and not the AirTag of someone who was trying to break up her relationship?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 57
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,341member

    AppleZulu said:
    I'm glad people are finally discussing the issues. As I've said before, once people start to understand how it works there will be some pushback. It's inevitable that some governments in the world might make AirTags and their competitors illegal, perhaps even citing "national security concerns." And some of those countries may introduce their own "legal" Tag technology, which will allow users to do much the same thing but will also allow the government to track the Tag itself. These governments could also build detectors in busy public places to detect and confiscate non-approved Tags.
    AirTags are irrelevant to your story here. Those governments can do whatever you said there already. 

    We'll see who is right by observing if AirTags are banned anywhere.

    The difference is that AirTags track lots of different things, like cars and valuable property. Whereas if you are thinking about tracking by phones, they track people. I think those governments would love the added ability to track people's valuables. And in case you aren't aware, 40% of the people in China aren't wealthy enough to own phones, but the government could give a free GovTag to each citizen and order them to carry it on their person at all times.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 57
    crowleycrowley Posts: 7,831member
    lostkiwi said:
    There’s a use case within that three day stalking window that, while unethical, is certainly feasible.   Your partner, I’ll use girlfriend as that’s my situation...  your girlfriend goes out occasionally for a girls’ night out and returns home well past midnight.  You become suspicious so tag her handbag or even car before she goes out.  Then, a few times during the evening you search for that air tag.  She’s not going to get alerted, but you’ll know if she’s no longer at the restaurant or club she claims the girls frequent.  You’ll potentially even know the hotel or residential address where she went, assuming she’s cheating.  And she’ll be back within 24 hours, or less if she’s trying to cover her tracks; she’s not likely to not come home for three days.   
    Hi Radar, my understanding is that the 3 day window only applies to the Airbags automatically emitting a sound if their paired iPhone has not been nearby for that time.  In your scenario above Apple say that the Airtag will know if it is moving along with somebody who does not have their paired phone.  It will pop up an alert on the girlfriends Find My app where she can tell it to emit the sound to find said Airtag.  Then you are busted.

    I assume they would have tested the heck out of this to ensure it works as described.
    If the girlfriend doesn't have an iPhone then no alert is given.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 57
    crowleycrowley Posts: 7,831member
    crowley said:
    There’s a use case within that three day stalking window that, while unethical, is certainly feasible.   Your partner, I’ll use girlfriend as that’s my situation...  your girlfriend goes out occasionally for a girls’ night out and returns home well past midnight.  You become suspicious so tag her handbag or even car before she goes out.  Then, a few times during the evening you search for that air tag.  She’s not going to get alerted, but you’ll know if she’s no longer at the restaurant or club she claims the girls frequent.  You’ll potentially even know the hotel or residential address where she went, assuming she’s cheating.  And she’ll be back within 24 hours, or less if she’s trying to cover her tracks; she’s not likely to not come home for three days.   
    Here's another use case, girlfriend finds the AirTag, dumps your creepy ass and tells everyone you know what a loser you are.
    How would she know it's her boyfriend's AirTag, and not the AirTag of someone who was trying to break up her relationship?
    I have precisely zero interest in your fuddy what-iffery.
  • Reply 54 of 57
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,341member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    There’s a use case within that three day stalking window that, while unethical, is certainly feasible.   Your partner, I’ll use girlfriend as that’s my situation...  your girlfriend goes out occasionally for a girls’ night out and returns home well past midnight.  You become suspicious so tag her handbag or even car before she goes out.  Then, a few times during the evening you search for that air tag.  She’s not going to get alerted, but you’ll know if she’s no longer at the restaurant or club she claims the girls frequent.  You’ll potentially even know the hotel or residential address where she went, assuming she’s cheating.  And she’ll be back within 24 hours, or less if she’s trying to cover her tracks; she’s not likely to not come home for three days.   
    Here's another use case, girlfriend finds the AirTag, dumps your creepy ass and tells everyone you know what a loser you are.
    How would she know it's her boyfriend's AirTag, and not the AirTag of someone who was trying to break up her relationship?
    I have precisely zero interest in your fuddy what-iffery.
    I must be in your brain 24 hours per day, when you have to comment on so many of my posts, and saying nothing useful when you do.
  • Reply 55 of 57
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,024member

    AppleZulu said:
    I'm glad people are finally discussing the issues. As I've said before, once people start to understand how it works there will be some pushback. It's inevitable that some governments in the world might make AirTags and their competitors illegal, perhaps even citing "national security concerns." And some of those countries may introduce their own "legal" Tag technology, which will allow users to do much the same thing but will also allow the government to track the Tag itself. These governments could also build detectors in busy public places to detect and confiscate non-approved Tags.
    AirTags are irrelevant to your story here. Those governments can do whatever you said there already. 

    We'll see who is right by observing if AirTags are banned anywhere.

    The difference is that AirTags track lots of different things, like cars and valuable property. Whereas if you are thinking about tracking by phones, they track people. I think those governments would love the added ability to track people's valuables. And in case you aren't aware, 40% of the people in China aren't wealthy enough to own phones, but the government could give a free GovTag to each citizen and order them to carry it on their person at all times.
    As I said, Air Tags are irrelevant to any of that. If a government wants to tag and track its people, dogs, cars, wombats or whatever, their ability and/or decision to do that exists irrespective of whether Apple is selling Air Tags or not.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 57
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,024member
    I would like them to solve for antitheft use-case as well. Would love to be able to hide a tag in my bicycle, motorcycle and panniers. Living in the PNW there's a lot of theft, so leaving my bike to go for a walk is a risk, airtags would've been the perfect solution.
    Agreed. And given Apple specifically market them for use with bikes they are at least implying that use case. After all, who 'forgets' their bike. Stolen, however... I have a specialist push bike and I'd certainly like one of these to hide in it should it get stolen. Then again, I think the diameter slightly too wide to place in any of its tubes. That's the other thing, if you attach it to a bag or handbag in a way that is easily located or on one of the accompanying straps, someone can just remove it.
    Given that these devices rely on radio signals, putting one inside a metal tube probably isn't going to yield the desired results anyway.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 57
    normmnormm Posts: 636member
    crowley said:
    There’s a use case within that three day stalking window that, while unethical, is certainly feasible.   Your partner, I’ll use girlfriend as that’s my situation...  your girlfriend goes out occasionally for a girls’ night out and returns home well past midnight.  You become suspicious so tag her handbag or even car before she goes out.  Then, a few times during the evening you search for that air tag.  She’s not going to get alerted, but you’ll know if she’s no longer at the restaurant or club she claims the girls frequent.  You’ll potentially even know the hotel or residential address where she went, assuming she’s cheating.  And she’ll be back within 24 hours, or less if she’s trying to cover her tracks; she’s not likely to not come home for three days.   
    Here's another use case, girlfriend finds the AirTag, dumps your creepy ass and tells everyone you know what a loser you are.
    How would she know it's her boyfriend's AirTag, and not the AirTag of someone who was trying to break up her relationship?
    The only way you can track the AirTag is if it's linked to you.  Linking it is a secure operation that identifies you.  
    watto_cobra
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