Apple's 'M2' processor enters mass production for MacBook Pro

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  • Reply 21 of 291
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 9,269member
    Hubro said:
    Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap
    ...I´ve had several Thinkpads over the years, and I still got one.
    Sure, you can do upgrades of ram, ssd and in fact the cpu provided the fan/cooling is made for the same TDP. Sure, a new SSD might take down the power consumption a tad, but you are still stuck with the same s****y battery life and the very same s****y screen and the same miserable GPU (OR the power hog edition). You can bring extra batteries when/if moving around for sure, but you'll need 2 extra 94 wh ones to keep up with the M1 MacBook Pro 13.   

    ...and when you start calculating you'll probably find that the economy in it is not that much better than buying a M1 MacBook Pro 13 which will have a decent 2nd hand value and that outperforms the old TP night and day week in week out.
    LOL...
    You deleted the first half of the post -- and then went on a rant that totally and completely missed the point -- and in fact turned it into something completely irrelevant!

    Yawn....
    williamlondonelijahg
  • Reply 22 of 291
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 9,269member
    For all those defending the "Everything Glued together & soldered together" assembly of the MacBooks by saying "Nobody ever upgraded a computer", Andrew just called bull!

    His biggest (only?) complaint about his M1 MacBook Air is that it can't meet his needs because it is frozen in time with what it came with when he bought it -- versus his MacPro which grew and developed with enhancements as his needs, wants and requirements grew.

    Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap
    For every point, there is a vast majority of people who never upgrade the internals of their computers. You can rally and complain about that all you want, however there are millions of computers including Apple that haven’t been upgrade for years. Our 2014 Air and Mini are some of those. Apple is selling more ASi Macs than Intel Macs and every one of them are all soldered together. Apple knows their market. Rather than scrapping them, Macs do have a high resale value. 

    Did you watch the video?   Andrew called bull.... 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 23 of 291
    For all those defending the "Everything Glued together & soldered together" assembly of the MacBooks by saying "Nobody ever upgraded a computer", Andrew just called bull!

    His biggest (only?) complaint about his M1 MacBook Air is that it can't meet his needs because it is frozen in time with what it came with when he bought it -- versus his MacPro which grew and developed with enhancements as his needs, wants and requirements grew.

    Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap
    For every point, there is a vast majority of people who never upgrade the internals of their computers. You can rally and complain about that all you want, however there are millions of computers including Apple that haven’t been upgrade for years. Our 2014 Air and Mini are some of those. Apple is selling more ASi Macs than Intel Macs and every one of them are all soldered together. Apple knows their market. Rather than scrapping them, Macs do have a high resale value. 

    Did you watch the video?   Andrew called bull.... 
    do you understand how upgradable the MacBook Air and Mini were? 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 291
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,083member
    Hubro said:
    Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap
    ...I´ve had several Thinkpads over the years, and I still got one.
    Sure, you can do upgrades of ram, ssd and in fact the cpu provided the fan/cooling is made for the same TDP. Sure, a new SSD might take down the power consumption a tad, but you are still stuck with the same s****y battery life and the very same s****y screen and the same miserable GPU (OR the power hog edition). You can bring extra batteries when/if moving around for sure, but you'll need 2 extra 94 wh ones to keep up with the M1 MacBook Pro 13.   

    ...and when you start calculating you'll probably find that the economy in it is not that much better than buying a M1 MacBook Pro 13 which will have a decent 2nd hand value and that outperforms the old TP night and day week in week out.
    LOL...
    You deleted the first half of the post -- and then went on a rant that totally and completely missed the point -- and in fact turned it into something completely irrelevant!

    Yawn....
    You seem to be intent on continuing your own rant, so don't let any of us get in the way of that by way of disagreement with your facts.
    williamlondonFidonet127rundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 291
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 9,269member
    seanj said:
    For all those defending the "Everything Glued together & soldered together" assembly of the MacBooks by saying "Nobody ever upgraded a computer", Andrew just called bull!

    His biggest (only?) complaint about his M1 MacBook Air is that it can't meet his needs because it is frozen in time with what it came with when he bought it -- versus his MacPro which grew and developed with enhancements as his needs, wants and requirements grew.

    Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap
    Only a tiny percentage of people tinker with the computers, it’s a niche market that’s similar to those that add nitrous oxide to their cars...
    Most people just want a computer they can do things with, rather than do things to, in other words a consumer product. With Apple they get that, which is why customer satisfaction is so high.

    If you have a 9 year old Thinkpad then you’re probably either running XP (good luck browsing the Internet securely) or you’re running Linux. If it’s the latter then if you happy with a limited number of professional applications then that’s fine.

    I forgot to mention that its running WIndows 10.  So, its security is a good as good as any Windows machine.   Admittedly that's a low bar. 
    But the point of the post was NOT about lengetivity but to reiterate what Andew said:   His MacPro remained functional because it could be upgraded with additional RAM & Storage -- while his MacBook AIr could not meet his needs because it was all glued and soldered together and locked into its initial configuration when he bought it.
    elijahg
  • Reply 26 of 291
    thedbathedba Posts: 587member
    For all those defending the "Everything Glued together & soldered together" assembly of the MacBooks by saying "Nobody ever upgraded a computer", Andrew just called bull!

    His biggest (only?) complaint about his M1 MacBook Air is that it can't meet his needs because it is frozen in time with what it came with when he bought it -- versus his MacPro which grew and developed with enhancements as his needs, wants and requirements grew.

    Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap
    Statements such as this remind me of my now deceased father who used to long for the days of when he could service his car himself. 
    I sometimes wonder what he would say seeing today's Teslas or Priuses. 

    Either way, all technology will move towards this way of doing things with ARM architecture taking up more space. Apple is just ahead of the curve on this. 
    WgkruegerFidonet127williamlondontwokatmewhcrefugeerundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 291
    kdoggkdogg Posts: 4member
    I hope it allows for a lot more than the tiny 16GB of shared RAM. Hopefully it can go at least to 64, but somehow I doubt it will.

    williamlondondanoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 291
    Peza said:
    seanj said:
    For all those defending the "Everything Glued together & soldered together" assembly of the MacBooks by saying "Nobody ever upgraded a computer", Andrew just called bull!

    His biggest (only?) complaint about his M1 MacBook Air is that it can't meet his needs because it is frozen in time with what it came with when he bought it -- versus his MacPro which grew and developed with enhancements as his needs, wants and requirements grew.

    Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap
    Only a tiny percentage of people tinker with the computers, it’s a niche market that’s similar to those that add nitrous oxide to their cars...
    Most people just want a computer they can do things with, rather than do things to, in other words a consumer product. With Apple they get that, which is why customer satisfaction is so high.

    If you have a 9 year old Thinkpad then you’re probably either running XP (good luck browsing the Internet securely) or you’re running Linux. If it’s the latter then if you happy with a limited number of professional applications then that’s fine.
    Well considering it's global PC market share, many would say the Apple Mac computer is also a niche product and market.
    Using that logic, every manufacturer in the market is a niche.  Not a useful distinction.
    rundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 291
    WgkruegerWgkrueger Posts: 286member
    seanj said:
    For all those defending the "Everything Glued together & soldered together" assembly of the MacBooks by saying "Nobody ever upgraded a computer", Andrew just called bull!

    His biggest (only?) complaint about his M1 MacBook Air is that it can't meet his needs because it is frozen in time with what it came with when he bought it -- versus his MacPro which grew and developed with enhancements as his needs, wants and requirements grew.

    Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap
    Only a tiny percentage of people tinker with the computers, it’s a niche market that’s similar to those that add nitrous oxide to their cars...
    Most people just want a computer they can do things with, rather than do things to, in other words a consumer product. With Apple they get that, which is why customer satisfaction is so high.

    If you have a 9 year old Thinkpad then you’re probably either running XP (good luck browsing the Internet securely) or you’re running Linux. If it’s the latter then if you happy with a limited number of professional applications then that’s fine.

    I forgot to mention that its running WIndows 10.  So, its security is a good as good as any Windows machine.   Admittedly that's a low bar. 
    But the point of the post was NOT about lengetivity but to reiterate what Andew said:   His MacPro remained functional because it could be upgraded with additional RAM & Storage -- while his MacBook AIr could not meet his needs because it was all glued and soldered together and locked into its initial configuration when he bought it.
    If it needed to be upgraded immediately then it can be returned to Apple. If his needs exceeded the capabilities of a maxed out machine then he couldn’t upgrade it anyway (thinking memory here) and he could return it to Apple. If he used it for a period of time and his use cases changed so they exceeded the machines capabilities, which I think was part of your original point, then it’s a case of longevity. 
    rundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 291
    aderutteraderutter Posts: 443member
    It’s far more sensible to but the machine you need and when you outgrow it sellit and  buy a new machine that meets your new needs.
    If you aren’t wealthy enough to buy the machine you need from the start then you need to buy a cheap windows alternative.
    Macs hold their re-sale value really well generally so there is little to be lost by upgrading by trading up.
    williamlondontwokatmewwatto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 291
    So, I'm guessing this year's WWDC will introduce a new MacBook Pro (M2) and iMac Pro (M2)?

    Since I'm in a wishlist mode, it would also be cool to have new iMacs and MBPs with built-in LIDAR, so that we can do 3D gestures in space. :smiley: as well as infrared and dot projectors for FaceID. But keep TouchID also.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 291
    AppleishAppleish Posts: 313member
    Good. Hoping for an even bigger screen than the 16-inch.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 291
    JinTechJinTech Posts: 742member
    mattinoz said:
    Great fairly predictable what will be interesting is what direction M2 goes?
    I'm guessing at least 16-20 core processors and hopefully 32GB and 64GB memory.
    twokatmewrezwitswatto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 291
    aderutteraderutter Posts: 443member
    It’s interesting how Apple is marketing the chips of these new devices.
    Macs with M1 and now an iPad Pro with M1 - I assume they will simply not use/disable any Mac-specific parts of the SOC.

    Will the M1 be used in the next iPhone?
    Will the M1 eventually be used in lower-end iPads?
    Will the M1 be used in a new gaming focused AppleTV?

    We would normally expect an M1X and then an M2 - i.e. an M2 around the time of the next iPhone.
    Will an M1 with more cores be called M!X or M2? This report seems to indicate the latter.
    However, they may decide to stick with the name M1 for an M1 variant that happens to have more cores.
    So low-end device might have an M1 with 8-8 (cpu-gpu) cores and higher end devices might have an M1 with 12-16 (cpu-gpu) cores for example.

    It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 291
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,529member
    For all those defending the "Everything Glued together & soldered together" assembly of the MacBooks by saying "Nobody ever upgraded a computer", Andrew just called bull!

    His biggest (only?) complaint about his M1 MacBook Air is that it can't meet his needs because it is frozen in time with what it came with when he bought it -- versus his MacPro which grew and developed with enhancements as his needs, wants and requirements grew.

    Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap
    Good for you.  You (and Andrew) seem to think that your situation applies to everyone else and that does not make it true.

    Most consumers NEVER upgrade their systems after purchase.  Get over it.  It makes complete sense to design the systems as they are.  Others are doing it too.  

    I used a Thinkpad back in the day.  Glad it’s gone.  Typical IBM lol.
    williamlondonFidonet127hcrefugeerundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 291
    PezaPeza Posts: 178member
    Peza said:
    seanj said:
    For all those defending the "Everything Glued together & soldered together" assembly of the MacBooks by saying "Nobody ever upgraded a computer", Andrew just called bull!

    His biggest (only?) complaint about his M1 MacBook Air is that it can't meet his needs because it is frozen in time with what it came with when he bought it -- versus his MacPro which grew and developed with enhancements as his needs, wants and requirements grew.

    Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap
    Only a tiny percentage of people tinker with the computers, it’s a niche market that’s similar to those that add nitrous oxide to their cars...
    Most people just want a computer they can do things with, rather than do things to, in other words a consumer product. With Apple they get that, which is why customer satisfaction is so high.

    If you have a 9 year old Thinkpad then you’re probably either running XP (good luck browsing the Internet securely) or you’re running Linux. If it’s the latter then if you happy with a limited number of professional applications then that’s fine.
    Well considering it's global PC market share, many would say the Apple Mac computer is also a niche product and market.
    Using that logic, every manufacturer in the market is a niche.  Not a useful distinction.
    It is useful when you consider only a Mac runs Mac OS, and everything else runs Linus or Windows. Unless of course you build a hack Irish which again is a niche market.
    it's a fact, sorry if you don't like it. But single digit market share is a niche.
    williamlondonelijahgwatto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 291
    nhtnht Posts: 4,516member
    For all those defending the "Everything Glued together & soldered together" assembly of the MacBooks by saying "Nobody ever upgraded a computer", Andrew just called bull!

    His biggest (only?) complaint about his M1 MacBook Air is that it can't meet his needs because it is frozen in time with what it came with when he bought it -- versus his MacPro which grew and developed with enhancements as his needs, wants and requirements grew.

    Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap
    For every point, there is a vast majority of people who never upgrade the internals of their computers. You can rally and complain about that all you want, however there are millions of computers including Apple that haven’t been upgrade for years. Our 2014 Air and Mini are some of those. Apple is selling more ASi Macs than Intel Macs and every one of them are all soldered together. Apple knows their market. Rather than scrapping them, Macs do have a high resale value. 

    Did you watch the video?   Andrew called bull.... 
    He replaced a $6K machines with a $1.2K machine.  And it worked.  Let's see...he can replace his MBA FIVE times for the cost of the Mac Pro.  Video editing with FCP was faster on the MBA than on his Mac Pro.

    Nobody gives a shit about upgradeability when your cost is cut 5X.  Especially when you can dock and connect to your RAID array, power, network and other peripherals with one (or two) cables.  The Mac mini becomes a HUGE freaking bang for the buck.  And while eGPUs don't work with enclosures other cards have been updated to with a M1 Mac.  For example BlackMagic released Desktop Video 12.0 adding Mac OS Big Sur and Apple M1 support for DeckLink 4K and 8K models, Intensity Pro 4K and UltraStudio Thunderbolt 3. 
    twokatmewbageljoeywilliamlondonFidonet127baconstanghcrefugeerundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 291
    bageljoeybageljoey Posts: 1,917member
    nht said:
    For all those defending the "Everything Glued together & soldered together" assembly of the MacBooks by saying "Nobody ever upgraded a computer", Andrew just called bull!

    His biggest (only?) complaint about his M1 MacBook Air is that it can't meet his needs because it is frozen in time with what it came with when he bought it -- versus his MacPro which grew and developed with enhancements as his needs, wants and requirements grew.

    Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap
    For every point, there is a vast majority of people who never upgrade the internals of their computers. You can rally and complain about that all you want, however there are millions of computers including Apple that haven’t been upgrade for years. Our 2014 Air and Mini are some of those. Apple is selling more ASi Macs than Intel Macs and every one of them are all soldered together. Apple knows their market. Rather than scrapping them, Macs do have a high resale value. 

    Did you watch the video?   Andrew called bull.... 
    He replaced a $6K machines with a $1.2K machine.  And it worked.  Let's see...he can replace his MBA FIVE times for the cost of the Mac Pro.  Video editing with FCP was faster on the MBA than on his Mac Pro.

    Nobody gives a shit about upgradeability when your cost is cut 5X.  Especially when you can dock and connect to your RAID array, power, network and other peripherals with one (or two) cables.  The Mac mini becomes a HUGE freaking bang for the buck.  And while eGPUs don't work with enclosures other cards have been updated to with a M1 Mac.  For example BlackMagic released Desktop Video 12.0 adding Mac OS Big Sur and Apple M1 support for DeckLink 4K and 8K models, Intensity Pro 4K and UltraStudio Thunderbolt 3. 
    EXACTLY!

    Why spend 5K on a machine and then several K more upgrading it to drag it through 10 years when you can drop 1 or 2 K a few times over the same years. It’s more cost effective, it keeps you running recent processors with the latest and greatest AND you can sell your old computers, give to family, or donate them to help those without.  

    williamlondonFidonet127sdw2001hcrefugeerundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 291
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 32,959member
    I’m hoping for better cores, both CPU and GPU. That’s really much more important than huge numbers of cores for most people. Even after all this time, most software will work better with, as an example, two high power cores than with three cores, that together have the same performance as the more powerful two. And yes, this holds true for multitasking as well. Obviously I was thinking about the iPhone there.

    but for desktops, the same is true, as we see from the M1, which has four high performance cores, and four low power cores, which together are around the power of one of the others, so we effectively have a five core chip. But that beats x86 six core chips, and equals, or slightly beats x86 8 core chips often. And 8 cores is about the maximum that most people can use. So I’d like to see an eight core chip where the cores are about 30% more powerful than current M1 chips. I’d much rather see that, than a 12 core chip with about equal performance per core as the M1. Most of those cores won’t be used most of the time.

    if people turn activity monitor on, and just keep the core performance strip on when they use their computer, you’ll notice that all cores are rarely used, and when they are, usually they peak at a fraction of their ability. Fewer cores simply means that the peaks reached are higher.

    what we’ve been seeing the last few years as x86 core performance dramatically slowed down for both AMD and Intel, is the core race. The same thing as the old MHz race. Apple getting caught up in that would not be a good thing. Do we really need 16 cores? Or the 32 cores some are predicting? No! The only place that comes in useful is in heavy Pro video editing, servers with virtual OS’s per core, large databases and spreadsheets. Nobody else can use that, including image editing, CAD and music production. Word processors basically require two cores for best performance, assuming fast cores.

    a Mac Pro can always have two chips for more cores, the way my older Mac Pro’s have two Xeons. That way you can have faster clock speeds and more cores, if needed. Just remember, the more cores on a chip, the lower the clock speed and per core performance. Apple isn’t immune to that.
    edited April 27 GeorgeBMacFidonet127baconstangmattinozwatto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 291
    WgkruegerWgkrueger Posts: 286member
    bageljoey said:
    nht said:
    For all those defending the "Everything Glued together & soldered together" assembly of the MacBooks by saying "Nobody ever upgraded a computer", Andrew just called bull!

    His biggest (only?) complaint about his M1 MacBook Air is that it can't meet his needs because it is frozen in time with what it came with when he bought it -- versus his MacPro which grew and developed with enhancements as his needs, wants and requirements grew.

    Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap
    For every point, there is a vast majority of people who never upgrade the internals of their computers. You can rally and complain about that all you want, however there are millions of computers including Apple that haven’t been upgrade for years. Our 2014 Air and Mini are some of those. Apple is selling more ASi Macs than Intel Macs and every one of them are all soldered together. Apple knows their market. Rather than scrapping them, Macs do have a high resale value. 

    Did you watch the video?   Andrew called bull.... 
    He replaced a $6K machines with a $1.2K machine.  And it worked.  Let's see...he can replace his MBA FIVE times for the cost of the Mac Pro.  Video editing with FCP was faster on the MBA than on his Mac Pro.

    Nobody gives a shit about upgradeability when your cost is cut 5X.  Especially when you can dock and connect to your RAID array, power, network and other peripherals with one (or two) cables.  The Mac mini becomes a HUGE freaking bang for the buck.  And while eGPUs don't work with enclosures other cards have been updated to with a M1 Mac.  For example BlackMagic released Desktop Video 12.0 adding Mac OS Big Sur and Apple M1 support for DeckLink 4K and 8K models, Intensity Pro 4K and UltraStudio Thunderbolt 3. 
    EXACTLY!

    Why spend 5K on a machine and then several K more upgrading it to drag it through 10 years when you can drop 1 or 2 K a few times over the same years. It’s more cost effective, it keeps you running recent processors with the latest and greatest AND you can sell your old computers, give to family, or donate them to help those without.  

    Well, incremental upgrades like memory and SSDs are budget friendly if, like many people, you don’t plan for future expenses. 

    The think is, his story breaks down on many levels. For instance, the thing about upgrading older machines is compatibility and trying to source the correct memory modules, etc for old tech. In fact, older tech upgrades tend to be more expensive, at least those times I wanted to do it. Also, WRT memory, the older tech devices couldn’t upgrade beyond the limits of the time. Putting in 32G in a machine with a hardware/bios limitation of 16g just doesn’t work.  
    tmaywilliamlondonFidonet127watto_cobra
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