Facebook considers telling users enabling tracking keeps app 'free of charge'

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 49
    goodbyeranchgoodbyeranch Posts: 154member
    PLEASE LET ME PAY for no ads, no tracking and zero feed algorithm. AND, let me start where I left off when I close the app and open it again later. My wallet is WIDE OPEN. PS I think facebook is cancer but I love instagram and how it keeps me connected to local businesses, independent artists, athletes, etc. Would switch to an alternative in a second. Why there are no alternatives is so bizarre.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 49

    But when I am with iPhone users within the same network, all iPhone users are constantly sharing my location with Apple. Apple knows exactly who is in the same location with whom, independent of whether the others have an iPhone or not.

     https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/new-study-raises-fresh-privacy-concerns-about-apple-and-google-mobile-phones/

     Apple not only collects data about handset activity, but also about handsets nearby. When you use WiFi, the WiFi MAC addresses of other devices on the network are sent to Apple.  When the location toggle is enabled on the handset then the precise GPS location is also included. The WiFi MAC address identifies a device on a WiFi network and so, for example, uniquely identifies your home router, cafe hotspot or office network.  That means Apple can potentially track which people you are near to, as well as when and where. That’s very concerning.

    Even Google doesn’t do this. This is scaring. But Apple fans always believe Apple is the good guy. Read the complete study. Apple and Google collect both data, but what Apple does, does nobody else.

    What Apple collects and what data they use could be two separate things. I imagine they aren't concerned about who is nearby but what routers are nearby for location purposes. I mean, you can enable rotating MAC addresses on your phone rendering the "who is nearby" as imperfect. And I believe it has been on by default since iOS 14 meaning at least 50-70% probably have it turned on.
    But then again, I can only go by what they say, I can't say what they actually do.
    edited May 2 patchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 49
    heli0s said:
    I joined Facebook in 2006, back when it was a completely different experience. Finally left all of their platforms in 2020 and never looked back. My mental health has been significantly better since.
    Same.

    I honestly miss it on rare occasions (like, "oh, you moved?" or when someone I don't know too well passes away). But for the most part, I don't. At all.

    But yes, mental health is MUCH better.

    I actively welcome the end of Facebook as we currently know it.
    edited May 2 baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 49
    I know what else I could do, which would keep Facebook 'Free of Charge...'
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 49
    FoodLoverFoodLover Posts: 48member

    But when I am with iPhone users within the same network, all iPhone users are constantly sharing my location with Apple. Apple knows exactly who is in the same location with whom, independent of whether the others have an iPhone or not.

     https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/new-study-raises-fresh-privacy-concerns-about-apple-and-google-mobile-phones/

     Apple not only collects data about handset activity, but also about handsets nearby. When you use WiFi, the WiFi MAC addresses of other devices on the network are sent to Apple.  When the location toggle is enabled on the handset then the precise GPS location is also included. The WiFi MAC address identifies a device on a WiFi network and so, for example, uniquely identifies your home router, cafe hotspot or office network.  That means Apple can potentially track which people you are near to, as well as when and where. That’s very concerning.

    Even Google doesn’t do this. This is scaring. But Apple fans always believe Apple is the good guy. Read the complete study. Apple and Google collect both data, but what Apple does, does nobody else.

    What Apple collects and what data they use could be two separate things. I imagine they aren't concerned about who is nearby but what routers are nearby for location purposes. I mean, you can enable rotating MAC addresses on your phone rendering the "who is nearby" as imperfect. And I believe it has been on by default since iOS 14 meaning at least 50-70% probably have it turned on.
    But then again, I can only go by what they say, I can't say what they actually do.

    Under Android it is not that easy. And normal people don't have a clue about how to do it.

    The problem is this: I have not authorised Apple to collect my data. In many countries, even the police is not allowed to ask telecom companies for a list of people being within a cell site, for instance to find out who was when where. But a company whose services I’m not using is allowed to collect data on me worldwide without my approval?

    As there is no reason for doing this, I simply have to assume that Apple would potentially misuse the data. And also share it with the respective governments worldwide.

    Even every FB user under iOS will have the choice to not being tracked by FB. But I as someone without an iPhone have no choice to opt out from being tracked by Apple. How sick is this?


  • Reply 26 of 49
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,076member
    Does Zuckerface think he is actually convincing anyone with this crap? Everyone knows Facebook is a multi-billion dollar company who is not exactly short of cash, and even with this threat, people are probably less likely to allow tracking just to shaft Facebook. Very, very few would pay for Facebook.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 49
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,316member
    Xed said:
    I beg for FB (and Instagram) to start charging users a fee. Let's bring a swifter end to them abusing the trust of their users.
    Literally the first comment succinctly said what I came in to comment. 

    Apple.  Let them say this.  If they don’t follow through with charging for the app then they will been shown to be full of dog food and if they start charging, they’ll lose most of their users.   It’s a win-win. 
    Xedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 49
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,316member
    FoodLover said:

    But when I am with iPhone users within the same network, all iPhone users are constantly sharing my location with Apple. Apple knows exactly who is in the same location with whom, independent of whether the others have an iPhone or not.

     https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/new-study-raises-fresh-privacy-concerns-about-apple-and-google-mobile-phones/

     Apple not only collects data about handset activity, but also about handsets nearby. When you use WiFi, the WiFi MAC addresses of other devices on the network are sent to Apple.  When the location toggle is enabled on the handset then the precise GPS location is also included. The WiFi MAC address identifies a device on a WiFi network and so, for example, uniquely identifies your home router, cafe hotspot or office network.  That means Apple can potentially track which people you are near to, as well as when and where. That’s very concerning.

    Even Google doesn’t do this. This is scaring. But Apple fans always believe Apple is the good guy. Read the complete study. Apple and Google collect both data, but what Apple does, does nobody else.

    What Apple collects and what data they use could be two separate things. I imagine they aren't concerned about who is nearby but what routers are nearby for location purposes. I mean, you can enable rotating MAC addresses on your phone rendering the "who is nearby" as imperfect. And I believe it has been on by default since iOS 14 meaning at least 50-70% probably have it turned on.
    But then again, I can only go by what they say, I can't say what they actually do.

    Under Android it is not that easy. And normal people don't have a clue about how to do it.

    The problem is this: I have not authorised Apple to collect my data. In many countries, even the police is not allowed to ask telecom companies for a list of people being within a cell site, for instance to find out who was when where. But a company whose services I’m not using is allowed to collect data on me worldwide without my approval?

    As there is no reason for doing this, I simply have to assume that Apple would potentially misuse the data. And also share it with the respective governments worldwide.

    Even every FB user under iOS will have the choice to not being tracked by FB. But I as someone without an iPhone have no choice to opt out from being tracked by Apple. How sick is this?


    They are not tracking you.  They get a MAC address.  There is no personal info attached to that MAC address.   They are tracking MAC addresses.  Something your phone broadcasts in public.  
    baconstangDogpersonwilliamlondonMacPropatchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 49
    FoodLoverFoodLover Posts: 48member
    chadbag said:
    FoodLover said:

    But when I am with iPhone users within the same network, all iPhone users are constantly sharing my location with Apple. Apple knows exactly who is in the same location with whom, independent of whether the others have an iPhone or not.

     https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/new-study-raises-fresh-privacy-concerns-about-apple-and-google-mobile-phones/

     Apple not only collects data about handset activity, but also about handsets nearby. When you use WiFi, the WiFi MAC addresses of other devices on the network are sent to Apple.  When the location toggle is enabled on the handset then the precise GPS location is also included. The WiFi MAC address identifies a device on a WiFi network and so, for example, uniquely identifies your home router, cafe hotspot or office network.  That means Apple can potentially track which people you are near to, as well as when and where. That’s very concerning.

    Even Google doesn’t do this. This is scaring. But Apple fans always believe Apple is the good guy. Read the complete study. Apple and Google collect both data, but what Apple does, does nobody else.

    What Apple collects and what data they use could be two separate things. I imagine they aren't concerned about who is nearby but what routers are nearby for location purposes. I mean, you can enable rotating MAC addresses on your phone rendering the "who is nearby" as imperfect. And I believe it has been on by default since iOS 14 meaning at least 50-70% probably have it turned on.
    But then again, I can only go by what they say, I can't say what they actually do.

    Under Android it is not that easy. And normal people don't have a clue about how to do it.

    The problem is this: I have not authorised Apple to collect my data. In many countries, even the police is not allowed to ask telecom companies for a list of people being within a cell site, for instance to find out who was when where. But a company whose services I’m not using is allowed to collect data on me worldwide without my approval?

    As there is no reason for doing this, I simply have to assume that Apple would potentially misuse the data. And also share it with the respective governments worldwide.

    Even every FB user under iOS will have the choice to not being tracked by FB. But I as someone without an iPhone have no choice to opt out from being tracked by Apple. How sick is this?


    They are not tracking you.  They get a MAC address.  There is no personal info attached to that MAC address.   They are tracking MAC addresses.  Something your phone broadcasts in public.  

    This is a pretty naive view!

    Every government who has a MAC number can go to Apple and ask for all collected data and prove that someone is related to another person of political group or whatever.

    If I’m not wrong, IMEI and MAC are worldwide unique numbers. You believe there are no databases which map IMEI numbers to MAC numbers? Every manufacturer has at least a database for devices he has built.

    And what do you believe Apple does with the collected MAC numbers? Just throwing them away? If yes, why sending them to Apple in first place? You can be sure that Apple collects the MAC numbers because it can correlate them to other numbers.


  • Reply 30 of 49
    a hawkins said:
    heli0s said:
    I joined Facebook in 2006, back when it was a completely different experience. Finally left all of their platforms in 2020 and never looked back. My mental health has been significantly better since.
    I envy you to be able to do that. Facebook is majority platform in my country and is the major channel to promote and sell things. So if I leave this platform it means the end of my income. Also every friends are on Facebook and even don't communicate via other platform. So unless you move to nowhere and do some agriculture there is no escape (and even so you may even have to use Facebook to find fertiliser vendor).
    A few rules I live by:
    1.  If it's free to you, you are the product being sold to someone else.
    2.  Our church had everything on FB, and when I, and quite a few parishioners told the leader that we won't be attending any events, since we jettisoned FB, they went to a dual notification method:  FB and E-mail.
    3.  I feel for you on the financial part, but in 5 years, there will be something else,  It's the nature of tech.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 49
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,500member
    Seriously though, this is just an intimidation tactic. I don't think FB has any interest in trying to turn itself into a paid service. They might have a few around the edges but I expect FB itself will stay free. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 49
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,110member
    Xed said:
    a hawkins said:
    heli0s said:
    I joined Facebook in 2006, back when it was a completely different experience. Finally left all of their platforms in 2020 and never looked back. My mental health has been significantly better since.
    I envy you to be able to do that. Facebook is majority platform in my country and is the major channel to promote and sell things. So if I leave this platform it means the end of my income. Also every friends are on Facebook and even don't communicate via other platform. So unless you move to nowhere and do some agriculture there is no escape (and even so you may even have to use Facebook to find fertiliser vendor).
    They do have a pretty good lock in for their Eloi. I dropped it back in 2018–19. It was definitely tough at first, but things are better without it, although I have found that selling stuff locally on Craig's List isn't great so the wife having FB Marketplace has been useful.
     Use OfferUp. It’s better than both. 
    Xed
  • Reply 33 of 49
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,208member
    heli0s said:
    I joined Facebook in 2006, back when it was a completely different experience. Finally left all of their platforms in 2020 and never looked back. My mental health has been significantly better since.
    I got off of Facebook and all their other crap some time early last year. I haven't looked back. It's a major reduction in my stress and anxiety to never log in there ever again. I didn't even bother deleting my account; I just logged off and never went back.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 49
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,208member

    sflocal said:
    The moment FB charges users to use its platform is the day its downhill trajectory begins.  Users are the most cheapest people around and expect everything for free.  They don't understand that FB is not "free".  They complain their privacy is at stake but refuse to acknowledge that "free" means giving up that info to continue using Facebook for "free". 

    Something has to give.  FB better start figuring out a plan B.
    What a terrible attitude that is to hold about everyone else in the world who isn't... whatever it is that makes you NOT "a user".
  • Reply 35 of 49
    digitoldigitol Posts: 227member
    LOL Facebook. 
  • Reply 36 of 49
    Trey_LanceTrey_Lance Posts: 80member
    Lol Facebook, threatening users now?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 49
    ankitpatiankitpati Posts: 3member
    FoodLover said:

    But when I am with iPhone users within the same network, all iPhone users are constantly sharing my location with Apple. Apple knows exactly who is in the same location with whom, independent of whether the others have an iPhone or not.

     https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/new-study-raises-fresh-privacy-concerns-about-apple-and-google-mobile-phones/

     Apple not only collects data about handset activity, but also about handsets nearby. When you use WiFi, the WiFi MAC addresses of other devices on the network are sent to Apple.  When the location toggle is enabled on the handset then the precise GPS location is also included. The WiFi MAC address identifies a device on a WiFi network and so, for example, uniquely identifies your home router, cafe hotspot or office network.  That means Apple can potentially track which people you are near to, as well as when and where. That’s very concerning.

    Even Google doesn’t do this. This is scaring. But Apple fans always believe Apple is the good guy. Read the complete study. Apple and Google collect both data, but what Apple does, does nobody else.

    What Apple collects and what data they use could be two separate things. I imagine they aren't concerned about who is nearby but what routers are nearby for location purposes. I mean, you can enable rotating MAC addresses on your phone rendering the "who is nearby" as imperfect. And I believe it has been on by default since iOS 14 meaning at least 50-70% probably have it turned on.
    But then again, I can only go by what they say, I can't say what they actually do.

    Under Android it is not that easy. And normal people don't have a clue about how to do it.

    The problem is this: I have not authorised Apple to collect my data. In many countries, even the police is not allowed to ask telecom companies for a list of people being within a cell site, for instance to find out who was when where. But a company whose services I’m not using is allowed to collect data on me worldwide without my approval?

    As there is no reason for doing this, I simply have to assume that Apple would potentially misuse the data. And also share it with the respective governments worldwide.

    Even every FB user under iOS will have the choice to not being tracked by FB. But I as someone without an iPhone have no choice to opt out from being tracked by Apple. How sick is this?


    Disclaimer: I do not wish to get into the larger argument. Just pointing out a factual inaccuracy.

    Under Android 10 and later, so a fully patched Galaxy S9 or later, MAC randomisation is enabled by default.
    hexclock
  • Reply 38 of 49
    rotateleftbyterotateleftbyte Posts: 1,498member
    mcdave said:
    Whether customers are being charged in consciously in currency or unconsciously in private data, they’re still being charged. Surely the US has laws against confidence trickery?
    Didn't they used to 'tar and feather' those snake oil salesmen? Time for Zuck to get the same perhaps?

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 49
    FoodLoverFoodLover Posts: 48member
    ankitpati said:
    FoodLover said:

    But when I am with iPhone users within the same network, all iPhone users are constantly sharing my location with Apple. Apple knows exactly who is in the same location with whom, independent of whether the others have an iPhone or not.

     https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/new-study-raises-fresh-privacy-concerns-about-apple-and-google-mobile-phones/

     Apple not only collects data about handset activity, but also about handsets nearby. When you use WiFi, the WiFi MAC addresses of other devices on the network are sent to Apple.  When the location toggle is enabled on the handset then the precise GPS location is also included. The WiFi MAC address identifies a device on a WiFi network and so, for example, uniquely identifies your home router, cafe hotspot or office network.  That means Apple can potentially track which people you are near to, as well as when and where. That’s very concerning.

    Even Google doesn’t do this. This is scaring. But Apple fans always believe Apple is the good guy. Read the complete study. Apple and Google collect both data, but what Apple does, does nobody else.

    What Apple collects and what data they use could be two separate things. I imagine they aren't concerned about who is nearby but what routers are nearby for location purposes. I mean, you can enable rotating MAC addresses on your phone rendering the "who is nearby" as imperfect. And I believe it has been on by default since iOS 14 meaning at least 50-70% probably have it turned on.
    But then again, I can only go by what they say, I can't say what they actually do.

    Under Android it is not that easy. And normal people don't have a clue about how to do it.

    The problem is this: I have not authorised Apple to collect my data. In many countries, even the police is not allowed to ask telecom companies for a list of people being within a cell site, for instance to find out who was when where. But a company whose services I’m not using is allowed to collect data on me worldwide without my approval?

    As there is no reason for doing this, I simply have to assume that Apple would potentially misuse the data. And also share it with the respective governments worldwide.

    Even every FB user under iOS will have the choice to not being tracked by FB. But I as someone without an iPhone have no choice to opt out from being tracked by Apple. How sick is this?


    Disclaimer: I do not wish to get into the larger argument. Just pointing out a factual inaccuracy.

    Under Android 10 and later, so a fully patched Galaxy S9 or later, MAC randomisation is enabled by default.
    That randomisation you are referring to and which probably works under iOS in a similar way applies only before you get associated with a network.

    Once you are in the network, your phone will use your unique MAC address.

    In order to falsify your real MAC address under Android, you’ll have to root your device. Under iOS: I’m not sure whether you still could jailbreak your iPhone. 

  • Reply 40 of 49
    ppietrappietra Posts: 247member
    FoodLover said:
    ppietra said:
    Did anyone notice how they deceitfully play with words?
    First they say they are tracking some Data - avoiding saying they are tracking people!
    Then they try to seed confusion by saying "how we limit the use of this information if you don't turn on this setting", like if people choose the negative option ("not to track") Facebook will get information.

    Well, I have a Galaxy Phone and no Facebook. So FB cannot track where I am. It can just collect data on the owner.

    But when I am with iPhone users within the same network, all iPhone users are constantly sharing my location with Apple. Apple knows exactly who is in the same location with whom, independent of whether the others have an iPhone or not.

     https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/new-study-raises-fresh-privacy-concerns-about-apple-and-google-mobile-phones/

     Apple not only collects data about handset activity, but also about handsets nearby. When you use WiFi, the WiFi MAC addresses of other devices on the network are sent to Apple.  When the location toggle is enabled on the handset then the precise GPS location is also included. The WiFi MAC address identifies a device on a WiFi network and so, for example, uniquely identifies your home router, cafe hotspot or office network.  That means Apple can potentially track which people you are near to, as well as when and where. That’s very concerning.

    Even Google doesn’t do this. This is scaring. But Apple fans always believe Apple is the good guy. Read the complete study. Apple and Google collect both data, but what Apple does, does nobody else.

    with all due respect but you have no idea of how Apple handles the data it collects, so you saying that Apple can track you is BS based on speculation.
    As for Facebook it is well known that it can track you even if don’t use Facebook, because Facebook is also an Ad network for other applications that you probably use, collecting data from those applications (that is Facebook business)... hey, it is even the owner of other popular apps!
    patchythepiratewatto_cobra
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