Apple denied Microsoft request to bypass 30% commission for Office

Posted:
in General Discussion
The Epic Games v. Apple trial has revealed additional details about Apple's behind the scenes negotiations with companies like Microsoft, including a request to bypass App Store commissions.

Credit: Microsoft
Credit: Microsoft


An email thread from 2012 sheds light on Microsoft's launch of Office for iPad and Apple's reaction to the news. According to CNBC, Apple executives asked Microsoft if it wanted to participate in WWDC that year. Microsoft declined, citing that it wasn't ready for talk about its iPad plans.

The thread, which included App Store executives Phil Schiller and Eddy Cue, also detail some of Microsoft's requests. For one, Microsoft wanted Schiller and Cue to meet with its own executives like Kirk Koenigsbauer -- a current Microsoft senior vice president. Apple's team said yes.

However, Microsoft also asked Apple to allow it to redirect users to its own website to collect purchases and bypass the App Store 30% commission. Schiller denied this request, stating in an email that "We run the store, we collect the revenue."

Other documents and communications revealed in the Epic v. Apple trial show that the two companies shared a friendly partnership over several years.

Apple, for example, appeared to be interested in convincing Epic Games to support its ARKit augmented reality platform. Emails between Epic executives in 2017 suggested that a meeting with Apple occurred to discuss using the iPhone's face tracking technology to create animated characters.

The ARKit discussions between the two companies continued into 2020. After Apple released the iPad Pro with LiDAR, for example, Cupertino executives offered Epic Games a meeting with Apple's ARKit team. It also dangled the possibility of Apple promoting Epic Games at WWDC that year.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 22
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,337member
    All these emails reveal is that these are scumbag companies.

    The last bit about promoting Epic reinforces what I said in another thread. Apple was VERY friendly to Epic and always promotes them at iPhone keynotes. Little did they know they were sleeping with the devil.

    Apple should take gaming to first-party and take it VERY seriously so as*holes like these have less control over product damage. Removing Fortnite was petty and although it doesn’t affect us AI readers much it did affect iPhone users who did play the game hours a day. Apple should invest 5 billion into first-party studios and game engines as a platform security measure and ecosystem stickiness. Throw in a killer M1 Apple TV with first-party M1 games and these game studios will have less leverage against Apple.

    Schiller denied this request, stating in an email that "We run the store, we collect the revenue."

    Pretty much sums up the logic of this trial. 
    d_2qwerty52jony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 22
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,352member
    It's nice to see confirmation through this trial of information that we all expected to be true.
    jony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 22
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,316member
    Beats said:
    All these emails reveal is that these are scumbag companies.

    The last bit about promoting Epic reinforces what I said in another thread. Apple was VERY friendly to Epic and always promotes them at iPhone keynotes. Little did they know they were sleeping with the devil.

    Apple should take gaming to first-party and take it VERY seriously so as*holes like these have less control over product damage. Removing Fortnite was petty and although it doesn’t affect us AI readers much it did affect iPhone users who did play the game hours a day. Apple should invest 5 billion into first-party studios and game engines as a platform security measure and ecosystem stickiness. Throw in a killer M1 Apple TV with first-party M1 games and these game studios will have less leverage against Apple.

    Schiller denied this request, stating in an email that "We run the store, we collect the revenue."

    Pretty much sums up the logic of this trial. 

    Yep. Apple should create it's own game engine, just to take market share away from unreal and fuck over Epic. There's no reason why Apple can't, they can hire the best people to do this and give them a blank cheque. It's absolutely nauseating how Epic tried to weaponize it's 13yr old user base against Apple for PR purposes, and how they manufactured the whole controversy out of nothing. They don't give a shit about their users, and they opted to have the app pulled and to screw them over, instead of paying Apple the fair fee just like every single other developer. All this, just so they can monetize Apple's user base for free, and pocket 100% of fortnite micro transactions. This is what this entire shitty trial is based on. Sweeney admitted he would have accepted a special deal from Apple, proving that his "I'm doing this for the small devs!" was a complete and utter lie. 
    d_2fotoformatBeatsbyronljony0watto_cobramattinoz
  • Reply 4 of 22
    Trey_LanceTrey_Lance Posts: 98member
    Microsoft is a trillion dollar
    Company, why should Apple allow them to bypass the fee?

    how about Microsoft let Apple sell iPhones in their stores too?

    are these people all communists owned by China like Tim Weenie?
    Beatsjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 22
    zeus423zeus423 Posts: 104member
    Microsoft is a trillion dollar
    Company, why should Apple allow them to bypass the fee?

    how about Microsoft let Apple sell iPhones in their stores too?

    are these people all communists owned by China like Tim Weenie?
    If Microsoft sold iPhones in their stores, then there would be a reason for people to go to a MS store. It would be a win for MS, not for Apple.
    Beatsjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 22
    Alex_VAlex_V Posts: 21member
    Microsoft is a trillion dollar
    Company, why should Apple allow them to bypass the fee?
    how about Microsoft let Apple sell iPhones in their stores too?
    are these people all communists owned by China like Tim Weenie?

    You call him “Tim Weenie,” homophobic much? In your mind, Tim Cook is a communist even as he runs the world’s largest, by “capitalisation” (the clue is in the word), private enterprise company. Microsoft demanding discounts to improve their bottom line is “communist”?? Are you three years old? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
    BeatsFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 7 of 22
    qwerty52qwerty52 Posts: 300member
    Beats said:
    All these emails reveal is that these are scumbag companies.

    The last bit about promoting Epic reinforces what I said in another thread. Apple was VERY friendly to Epic and always promotes them at iPhone keynotes. Little did they know they were sleeping with the devil.

    Apple should take gaming to first-party and take it VERY seriously so as*holes like these have less control over product damage. Removing Fortnite was petty and although it doesn’t affect us AI readers much it did affect iPhone users who did play the game hours a day. Apple should invest 5 billion into first-party studios and game engines as a platform security measure and ecosystem stickiness. Throw in a killer M1 Apple TV with first-party M1 games and these game studios will have less leverage against Apple.

    Schiller denied this request, stating in an email that "We run the store, we collect the revenue."

    Pretty much sums up the logic of this trial. 

    Absolutely. 
    Apple should take gaming very seriously, just like it is doing with AppleTV now: investing a lot af money and creating a new content 
    Beatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 22
    crowleycrowley Posts: 7,893member
    Beats said:
     Removing Fortnite was petty and although it doesn’t affect us AI readers much it did affect iPhone users who did play the game hours a day. 
    I thought they just removed it from the store, not existing installs?
    FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 9 of 22
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,337member
    crowley said:
    Beats said:
     Removing Fortnite was petty and although it doesn’t affect us AI readers much it did affect iPhone users who did play the game hours a day. 
    I thought they just removed it from the store, not existing installs?

    I believe if you don’t update the game it doesn’t play(there was an update post removal). The app may be on your iPhone but won’t actually let you play it.
    edited May 8
  • Reply 10 of 22
    crowleycrowley Posts: 7,893member
    Beats said:
    crowley said:
    Beats said:
     Removing Fortnite was petty and although it doesn’t affect us AI readers much it did affect iPhone users who did play the game hours a day. 
    I thought they just removed it from the store, not existing installs?

    I believe if you don’t update the game it doesn’t play(there was an update post removal). The app may be on your iPhone but won’t actually let you play it.
    Ok, that makes sense.  But the update was down to Epic, so they're the ones who have broken the iOS app.
    FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 22
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,765member
    Beats said:
    All these emails reveal is that these are scumbag companies.

    The last bit about promoting Epic reinforces what I said in another thread. Apple was VERY friendly to Epic and always promotes them at iPhone keynotes. Little did they know they were sleeping with the devil.

    Apple should take gaming to first-party and take it VERY seriously so as*holes like these have less control over product damage. Removing Fortnite was petty and although it doesn’t affect us AI readers much it did affect iPhone users who did play the game hours a day. Apple should invest 5 billion into first-party studios and game engines as a platform security measure and ecosystem stickiness. Throw in a killer M1 Apple TV with first-party M1 games and these game studios will have less leverage against Apple.

    Schiller denied this request, stating in an email that "We run the store, we collect the revenue."

    Pretty much sums up the logic of this trial. 
    You could also conclude that Apple is friendly while its revenue stream from you is unaffected. Try to change that and you might see a more 'combative' Apple.

    "We run the store, we collect the revenue" would probably be an innocent phrase if app store competition existed on Apple mobile devices but as that isn't the case, it takes on a more negative connotation with regards to comsumer protection and general competition. 


    Beats
  • Reply 12 of 22
    crowleycrowley Posts: 7,893member
    Can't blame Microsoft for asking.

    The Windows App Store has iTunes in its listing.  Do Microsoft get a cut of every song Apple sells through iTunes?  I doubt it.

    Also, Apple Music on Android uses its own payment system, not Google Play's version of in app purchases.

    Apple are quite happy to be the exception on other people's platforms.
    muthuk_vanalingambyronlFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 13 of 22
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,312member
    Some say Apple’s 30% cut of payments on a platform they created and operate is greedy.

    I saw Microsoft mot wanting to give up 30% makes them the greedy ones.   Microsoft, one of the biggest corporations in the world.   
    Beatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 22
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 1,803member
    zeus423 said:
    Microsoft is a trillion dollar
    Company, why should Apple allow them to bypass the fee?

    how about Microsoft let Apple sell iPhones in their stores too?

    are these people all communists owned by China like Tim Weenie?
    If Microsoft sold iPhones in their stores, then there would be a reason for people to go to a MS store. It would be a win for MS, not for Apple.

    Yah, but Microsoft would not sell iPhones (shelf space) for free, and that's exactly what these companies want from Apple. Free shelf space.
    Beatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 22
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,337member
    crowley said:
    Beats said:
    crowley said:
    Beats said:
     Removing Fortnite was petty and although it doesn’t affect us AI readers much it did affect iPhone users who did play the game hours a day. 
    I thought they just removed it from the store, not existing installs?

    I believe if you don’t update the game it doesn’t play(there was an update post removal). The app may be on your iPhone but won’t actually let you play it.
    Ok, that makes sense.  But the update was down to Epic, so they're the ones who have broken the iOS app.

    I can tell you don’t play Fortnite(not a negative statement). This game gets updates frequently and they have “seasons” which are updates. Everyone has to be on the latest version to play. Apple didn’t get the latest version. When you don’t have the latest version a pop-up asking you to update appears, basically a gatekeeper.
    FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 22
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,337member

    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    All these emails reveal is that these are scumbag companies.

    The last bit about promoting Epic reinforces what I said in another thread. Apple was VERY friendly to Epic and always promotes them at iPhone keynotes. Little did they know they were sleeping with the devil.

    Apple should take gaming to first-party and take it VERY seriously so as*holes like these have less control over product damage. Removing Fortnite was petty and although it doesn’t affect us AI readers much it did affect iPhone users who did play the game hours a day. Apple should invest 5 billion into first-party studios and game engines as a platform security measure and ecosystem stickiness. Throw in a killer M1 Apple TV with first-party M1 games and these game studios will have less leverage against Apple.

    Schiller denied this request, stating in an email that "We run the store, we collect the revenue."

    Pretty much sums up the logic of this trial. 
    You could also conclude that Apple is friendly while its revenue stream from you is unaffected. Try to change that and you might see a more 'combative' Apple.

    "We run the store, we collect the revenue" would probably be an innocent phrase if app store competition existed on Apple mobile devices but as that isn't the case, it takes on a more negative connotation with regards to comsumer protection and general competition. 



    You said “Apple mobile devices” and that’s the key. Apple doesn’t owe anyone anything. THEY invented it. THEY own it.

    it’s enough the entire mobile industry ripped off their work, what more do you want from Apple? Free shelf space? Oh yeah, that’s exactly what you’re arguing for.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 22
    crowleycrowley Posts: 7,893member
    Beats said:
    crowley said:
    Beats said:
    crowley said:
    Beats said:
     Removing Fortnite was petty and although it doesn’t affect us AI readers much it did affect iPhone users who did play the game hours a day. 
    I thought they just removed it from the store, not existing installs?

    I believe if you don’t update the game it doesn’t play(there was an update post removal). The app may be on your iPhone but won’t actually let you play it.
    Ok, that makes sense.  But the update was down to Epic, so they're the ones who have broken the iOS app.

    I can tell you don’t play Fortnite(not a negative statement). This game gets updates frequently and they have “seasons” which are updates. Everyone has to be on the latest version to play. Apple didn’t get the latest version. When you don’t have the latest version a pop-up asking you to update appears, basically a gatekeeper.
    I know and understand that, but it's still down to Epic.
    FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 18 of 22
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,765member
    Beats said:

    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    All these emails reveal is that these are scumbag companies.

    The last bit about promoting Epic reinforces what I said in another thread. Apple was VERY friendly to Epic and always promotes them at iPhone keynotes. Little did they know they were sleeping with the devil.

    Apple should take gaming to first-party and take it VERY seriously so as*holes like these have less control over product damage. Removing Fortnite was petty and although it doesn’t affect us AI readers much it did affect iPhone users who did play the game hours a day. Apple should invest 5 billion into first-party studios and game engines as a platform security measure and ecosystem stickiness. Throw in a killer M1 Apple TV with first-party M1 games and these game studios will have less leverage against Apple.

    Schiller denied this request, stating in an email that "We run the store, we collect the revenue."

    Pretty much sums up the logic of this trial. 
    You could also conclude that Apple is friendly while its revenue stream from you is unaffected. Try to change that and you might see a more 'combative' Apple.

    "We run the store, we collect the revenue" would probably be an innocent phrase if app store competition existed on Apple mobile devices but as that isn't the case, it takes on a more negative connotation with regards to comsumer protection and general competition. 



    You said “Apple mobile devices” and that’s the key. Apple doesn’t owe anyone anything. THEY invented it. THEY own it.

    it’s enough the entire mobile industry ripped off their work, what more do you want from Apple? Free shelf space? Oh yeah, that’s exactly what you’re arguing for.
    That's fine, but only to a point. If your goal is to do business with third parties you run into all kinds of rules that you have no control over. 

    It's like the EU, US, China etc saying 'our territory, our rules' and Apple's rules have to fit in with those.

    This trial might conclude that Apple isn't complying correctly. 

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 19 of 22
    croprcropr Posts: 1,046member
    Microsoft is a trillion dollar
    Company, why should Apple allow them to bypass the fee?



    It is very easy to turn around your quote.

    Apple is a trillion company.
    Microsoft Office is running on multiple platform ans existed long time before the App store ecosystem.  Why should Microsoft allow Apple a 30% cut if Office is run on an iPhone  and Apple does not ask 30% if run on a Mac? 

    Your quote is as bad as mine, they both are irrelevant.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 20 of 22
    bestkeptsecretbestkeptsecret Posts: 3,994member
    Alex_V said:
    Microsoft is a trillion dollar
    Company, why should Apple allow them to bypass the fee?
    how about Microsoft let Apple sell iPhones in their stores too?
    are these people all communists owned by China like Tim Weenie?

    You call him “Tim Weenie,” homophobic much? In your mind, Tim Cook is a communist even as he runs the world’s largest, by “capitalisation” (the clue is in the word), private enterprise company. Microsoft demanding discounts to improve their bottom line is “communist”?? Are you three years old? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
    Trey_Lance is referring to Tim Sweeny - the Epic CEO, as Tim Weenie. He's been going on and on about Epic being a Chinese company.
    muthuk_vanalingamFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
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