Microsoft LOST in making knockoff iPhones. Had Microsoft won the iKnockoff market their tune would be different.
What a shi* company after all the respect Apple is giving them on iPhone/iPad. Time for Apple to take office Apps seriously and kill Microsoft.
Microsoft teaming up against Apple playing dirty.
Maybe Apple has tried to take office apps seriously, but at the end, maybe they are just bad on this. Also they don't have the massive ecosystem MS have for business and enterprises behind MS Office, which integrate very well.
Peza said: And FYI Xbox isn't closed like you claim, they have integrated the EA store into Game Pass and rumours claim Ubisoft+ is also coming to the service.
LOL...there is no EA "store" on Xbox. There is EA Play, which is part of the Xbox Game Pass service.
EA Play is part of GamePass Ultimate, not GamePass Console. If you have XBox Live you can choose to subscribe to EA Play without GamePass. Looks like MS is more flexible than Apple for their console digital store.
Microsoft LOST in making knockoff iPhones. Had Microsoft won the iKnockoff market their tune would be different.
What a shi* company after all the respect Apple is giving them on iPhone/iPad. Time for Apple to take office Apps seriously and kill Microsoft.
Microsoft teaming up against Apple playing dirty.
What a small minded way of thinking. They need each other and Microsoft is just as important and powerful as Apple. You take MS apps off of the Apple store, people will get other devices that have MS as their businesses run off of MS.
In fact, if you took Google, Microsoft and some of the other top ranked and used apps off of the Apple store, Apple would tank fast. No matter what YOU think, the world runs off of them and needs them and nothing Apple has can replace that as of now.
MS is butt hurt because they got crucified in the smartphone & tablet market, a market that is 4X the size of Windows. This is just their way of spiting Apple. And if Apple does & is forced to open iOS to 3rd party app stores or side loading apps then that could potential hurt every closed digital app store, Xbox being one of them
Yes I'm sure that's it, for a company with a current market cap of 1.86 trillion dollars. They must really be sour over the tablet market, for which they sell a more capable device. Like it or not, the majority of new M1 iPad Pro reviews have stated it's a lot of power heavily restricted by iOS.
The Surface Pro has had laptop grade hardware for years and runs a full OS, may be Windows but it's certainly my not restricted by its OS in what it can do. MS did mess up with the mobile phone market though, but as I pointed out it's hardly had an impact on them.
And FYI Xbox isn't closed like you claim, they have integrated the EA store into Game Pass and rumours claim Ubisoft+ is also coming to the service. And that's despite the fact your argument is totally and utterly flawed by the fact you can go and buy a game from a multitude of other places from brick and mortar stores to the supermarkets to Amazon. I don't recall the last time I could get an Apple app from the supermarket..... if Apple lose it won't change anything for Xbox.
Respectfully, you're conflating two issues. The Surface may be more capable in your opinion. Perhaps it's a better option for you. I've used both, and it definitely is not as "good" as an iPad in my view. And reviewers may agree that the M1 iPad is limited by iOS (though I'd like to see what you're basing "the majority" claim on). Regardless, that has nothing to do with the market and Microsoft's behavior.
I have both, an iPad and a Surface Pro, and and both have their good and bad things. For years I have heard how the iPad is a better device. But at the same time, Apple have been improving the iPad by adding features that the Surface had for years. For example,
Keyboard + trackpad Windows Hello / FaceID Pen w replaceable tip / Pencil (Pencil 2 with replaceable tip) Multitasking / side-by-side app Multiuser support (iPad has multiuser support in educational environments)
We could think that the Surface is a good device, considering Apple had to copy many elements from them, right? Maybe we could call the iPad a Surface knockoff. IMO, the iPad is a better tablet that the Surface. But as soon as you attach a keyboard, Surface have the advantage.
Microsoft as a company definitely remembers getting destroyed in three markets: Music, Phones and Tablets. Each time, they tried to release an "Apple-killer" device in an established market. They took "the L" with music and phones, big time. With tablets, they've been more successful, but they still can't compete with the iPad. Even now, their ads don't know whether to target the iPad or the MacBook Air. They try to do both, but it just doesn't work. I have my own theories as to why, but I'll save that for later. The point is that Microsoft and Apple have an odd relationship. They are always competing in OS/platform space, even though MS has the dominant position. Microsoft keeps attempting to compete directly on hardware, but it keeps getting wrecked. Of course they remember, and I'm sure some senior people are pretty "butthurt" about it. They would have to be, because they are doing better with the Surface, and if they are not idiots, they should learn from their mistakes with music and phones. Then again, judging by their ads, today doesn't appear to be that day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.
You have to remember in the hardware this is not MS vs Apple. There is HP, Dell, Lenovo and other companies selling large quantities of Windows devices. If a customer wants / needs a Windows device, they have options, and in many cases MS is the most expensive. That's different from Apple, where a macOS / iOS user have no options. This could explain why MS doesn't sell as many devices as other companies, including Apple. If you ask me, MS is doing very good, specially when you consider the are competing with companies with +30 of experience in the hardware market.
Peza said: And FYI Xbox isn't closed like you claim, they have integrated the EA store into Game Pass and rumours claim Ubisoft+ is also coming to the service.
LOL...there is no EA "store" on Xbox. There is EA Play, which is part of the Xbox Game Pass service.
Ah I got confused as the regular EA Play is also storefront that lets you purchase EA games and save 10%:, with Xbox though you still get the same discounts just you have to buy the games through the regular store front.
”Do I get a discount on EA digital content?
Yes! Your Xbox Game Pass subscription gives you a full EA Play membership, which includes 10% off of full games, DLC, and more. ”
And that's despite the fact your argument is totally and utterly flawed by the fact you can go and buy a game from a multitude of other places from brick and mortar stores to the supermarkets to Amazon.
Microsoft get a license cut of every boxed copy sold too. Mainstream console development is not an open eco system.
How is it not open then? I can play Xbox exclusive games on PC, a mobile phone, a tablet, I can buy them in a digital storefront, in a physical store, I can buy them new and second hand from a multitude of places. With Apple I have to use an Apple device. And to quench your point about Microsoft getting cut, well theirs a huge second hand market out there from which Microsoft get nothing. I will stick to my point about the Xbox model being more open.
Peza said: And FYI Xbox isn't closed like you claim, they have integrated the EA store into Game Pass and rumours claim Ubisoft+ is also coming to the service.
LOL...there is no EA "store" on Xbox. There is EA Play, which is part of the Xbox Game Pass service.
Ah I got confused as the regular EA Play is also storefront that lets you purchase EA games and save 10%:, with Xbox though you still get the same discounts just you have to buy the games through the regular store front.
”Do I get a discount on EA digital content?
Yes! Your Xbox Game Pass subscription gives you a full EA Play membership, which includes 10% off of full games, DLC, and more. ”
And that's despite the fact your argument is totally and utterly flawed by the fact you can go and buy a game from a multitude of other places from brick and mortar stores to the supermarkets to Amazon.
Microsoft get a license cut of every boxed copy sold too. Mainstream console development is not an open eco system.
Weather it’s open or not isn’t my point, it’s the fact they have included them. It’s wrong to compare the Xbox to the Apple App Store, they are not the same model, maybe they do get a cut of boxed copies, but they ONLY get a cut of NEW games, so my original point can still stand as you can buy physical games second hand front bay, brick and mortar stores, your friends.. so my point still stands, you cannot sell an Apple app second hand.
You said it "isn't closed". You made that your point and I'm saying that you're incorrect, it is closed, it just has alternative partnership approaches within that closed model. Apple could do the same, but they are not obliged to.
You never mentioned anything about second hand previously, and while it is true that the second hand market do not pay licensing costs to Microsoft it is also true that Microsoft have made moves previously to try and cut off that market, only backing down after public outcry. Microsoft very much want second hand games to not be a thing because of the lack of revenue for them. That actually makes them a very good comparison.
Microsoft LOST in making knockoff iPhones. Had Microsoft won the iKnockoff market their tune would be different.
What a shi* company after all the respect Apple is giving them on iPhone/iPad. Time for Apple to take office Apps seriously and kill Microsoft.
Microsoft teaming up against Apple playing dirty.
What a small minded way of thinking. They need each other and Microsoft is just as important and powerful as Apple. You take MS apps off of the Apple store, people will get other devices that have MS as their businesses run off of MS.
In fact, if you took Google, Microsoft and some of the other top ranked and used apps off of the Apple store, Apple would tank fast. No matter what YOU think, the world runs off of them and needs them and nothing Apple has can replace that as of now.
MS is butt hurt because they got crucified in the smartphone & tablet market, a market that is 4X the size of Windows. This is just their way of spiting Apple. And if Apple does & is forced to open iOS to 3rd party app stores or side loading apps then that could potential hurt every closed digital app store, Xbox being one of them
Yes I'm sure that's it, for a company with a current market cap of 1.86 trillion dollars. They must really be sour over the tablet market, for which they sell a more capable device. Like it or not, the majority of new M1 iPad Pro reviews have stated it's a lot of power heavily restricted by iOS.
The Surface Pro has had laptop grade hardware for years and runs a full OS, may be Windows but it's certainly my not restricted by its OS in what it can do. MS did mess up with the mobile phone market though, but as I pointed out it's hardly had an impact on them.
And FYI Xbox isn't closed like you claim, they have integrated the EA store into Game Pass and rumours claim Ubisoft+ is also coming to the service. And that's despite the fact your argument is totally and utterly flawed by the fact you can go and buy a game from a multitude of other places from brick and mortar stores to the supermarkets to Amazon. I don't recall the last time I could get an Apple app from the supermarket..... if Apple lose it won't change anything for Xbox.
Respectfully, you're conflating two issues. The Surface may be more capable in your opinion. Perhaps it's a better option for you. I've used both, and it definitely is not as "good" as an iPad in my view. And reviewers may agree that the M1 iPad is limited by iOS (though I'd like to see what you're basing "the majority" claim on). Regardless, that has nothing to do with the market and Microsoft's behavior.
Microsoft as a company definitely remembers getting destroyed in three markets: Music, Phones and Tablets. Each time, they tried to release an "Apple-killer" device in an established market. They took "the L" with music and phones, big time. With tablets, they've been more successful, but they still can't compete with the iPad. Even now, their ads don't know whether to target the iPad or the MacBook Air. They try to do both, but it just doesn't work. I have my own theories as to why, but I'll save that for later. The point is that Microsoft and Apple have an odd relationship. They are always competing in OS/platform space, even though MS has the dominant position. Microsoft keeps attempting to compete directly on hardware, but it keeps getting wrecked. Of course they remember, and I'm sure some senior people are pretty "butthurt" about it. They would have to be, because they are doing better with the Surface, and if they are not idiots, they should learn from their mistakes with music and phones. Then again, judging by their ads, today doesn't appear to be that day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.
Respectfully I’m not conflating anything, it is a fact the Surface Pro runs a full computer OS that does not restrict it. And why are you telling me what is and isn’t a better option for me? Where on earth did I state what ‘I’ want or would buy? I think I your the one being confused here. This isn’t an argument about which platform is better. And my comments had everything to do with the comment I was replying to, markets don’t really come into it.
And no, Microsoft doesn’t really remember taking an “L” over anything, they aren’t 12 year olds. Using your logic Apple must be hurting taking its big “L” every day over the fact it’s computers (Macs) globally haven’t even reached double digit market share. Or I could again recognise the fact Microsoft is a professional organisation with a market cap of 1.86 trillion, likewise with Apple and its 2 trillion market cap. I don’t think they are “butt hurt” over anything.
Their is no relationship between Microsoft and Apple, that’s diverting the argument again to who’s ‘best’, mines better then yours.. typical of Apple arguments I find, and has absolutely nothing to do with my original comment you quoted.
Personally I haven’t seen any adverts for Microsoft products for ages, apart from when Apple websites like this one post them, no I’ve only seen Apple adverts, which are also confusing, because they purposely portray the iPad Pro as a computer replacement which it isn’t, it’s a targeted device with limited use compared to full blown computers. I use mine daily, but I am fully aware of its limitations and restrictions and would never ever call it a computer replacement, not for anyone. IMO one of the best adverts and most innovative devices I’ve seen was the original Surface Studio, innovative for a target audience, fresh, and a great advert.
Anyway I digress, the Surface Pro is not restricted by its OS, the iPad Pro is, now.
Peza said: And FYI Xbox isn't closed like you claim, they have integrated the EA store into Game Pass and rumours claim Ubisoft+ is also coming to the service.
LOL...there is no EA "store" on Xbox. There is EA Play, which is part of the Xbox Game Pass service.
Ah I got confused as the regular EA Play is also storefront that lets you purchase EA games and save 10%:, with Xbox though you still get the same discounts just you have to buy the games through the regular store front.
”Do I get a discount on EA digital content?
Yes! Your Xbox Game Pass subscription gives you a full EA Play membership, which includes 10% off of full games, DLC, and more. ”
And that's despite the fact your argument is totally and utterly flawed by the fact you can go and buy a game from a multitude of other places from brick and mortar stores to the supermarkets to Amazon.
Microsoft get a license cut of every boxed copy sold too. Mainstream console development is not an open eco system.
Weather it’s open or not isn’t my point, it’s the fact they have included them. It’s wrong to compare the Xbox to the Apple App Store, they are not the same model, maybe they do get a cut of boxed copies, but they ONLY get a cut of NEW games, so my original point can still stand as you can buy physical games second hand front bay, brick and mortar stores, your friends.. so my point still stands, you cannot sell an Apple app second hand.
You said it "isn't closed". You made that your point and I'm saying that you're incorrect, it is closed, it just has alternative partnership approaches within that closed model. Apple could do the same, but they are not obliged to.
You never mentioned anything about second hand previously, and while it is true that the second hand market do not pay licensing costs to Microsoft it is also true that Microsoft have made moves previously to try and cut off that market, only backing down after public outcry. Microsoft very much want second hand games to not be a thing because of the lack of revenue for them. That actually makes them a very good comparison.
I realised my stupid original reply and have now edited it. And enhanced my point about why it is more open. And Game Pass is built in a way to stop second hand games, which it won’t do until physical media dies. And even then it’s offering ridiculous value Apple won’t ever compete with. Still as it stands now their is a huge second hand market, I didn’t mention it as you hadn’t brought up the license costs on new games before. And so it puts a flaw in your argument.
Sorry but to me the Xbox model is still not a match for the Apple one, and I don’t believe it will impact them if Apple are found guilty. Besides which Apple may only get a fine if found guilty, they may not be forced to change much, maybe cut their cut, or allow apps to direct you to a website to pay for the subscription, such as Netflix. Hardly going to rock Xbox.
Having a coherent conversation is going to be difficult if you edit your earlier posts to say something completely different. I'm not going to indulge that nonsense.
Comments
Keyboard + trackpad
Windows Hello / FaceID
Pen w replaceable tip / Pencil (Pencil 2 with replaceable tip)
Multitasking / side-by-side app
Multiuser support (iPad has multiuser support in educational environments)
We could think that the Surface is a good device, considering Apple had to copy many elements from them, right? Maybe we could call the iPad a Surface knockoff.
You have to remember in the hardware this is not MS vs Apple. There is HP, Dell, Lenovo and other companies selling large quantities of Windows devices. If a customer wants / needs a Windows device, they have options, and in many cases MS is the most expensive. That's different from Apple, where a macOS / iOS user have no options. This could explain why MS doesn't sell as many devices as other companies, including Apple. If you ask me, MS is doing very good, specially when you consider the are competing with companies with +30 of experience in the hardware market.
”Do I get a discount on EA digital content?
Yes! Your Xbox Game Pass subscription gives you a full EA Play membership, which includes 10% off of full games, DLC, and more. ”
http://help.ea.com/en/help/ea-play/ea-play-and-xbox-game-pass/
How is it not open then? I can play Xbox exclusive games on PC, a mobile phone, a tablet, I can buy them in a digital storefront, in a physical store, I can buy them new and second hand from a multitude of places. With Apple I have to use an Apple device. And to quench your point about Microsoft getting cut, well theirs a huge second hand market out there from which Microsoft get nothing. I will stick to my point about the Xbox model being more open.
You never mentioned anything about second hand previously, and while it is true that the second hand market do not pay licensing costs to Microsoft it is also true that Microsoft have made moves previously to try and cut off that market, only backing down after public outcry. Microsoft very much want second hand games to not be a thing because of the lack of revenue for them. That actually makes them a very good comparison.
And my comments had everything to do with the comment I was replying to, markets don’t really come into it.
And no, Microsoft doesn’t really remember taking an “L” over anything, they aren’t 12 year olds. Using your logic Apple must be hurting taking its big “L” every day over the fact it’s computers (Macs) globally haven’t even reached double digit market share. Or I could again recognise the fact Microsoft is a professional organisation with a market cap of 1.86 trillion, likewise with Apple and its 2 trillion market cap. I don’t think they are “butt hurt” over anything.
Personally I haven’t seen any adverts for Microsoft products for ages, apart from when Apple websites like this one post them, no I’ve only seen Apple adverts, which are also confusing, because they purposely portray the iPad Pro as a computer replacement which it isn’t, it’s a targeted device with limited use compared to full blown computers. I use mine daily, but I am fully aware of its limitations and restrictions and would never ever call it a computer replacement, not for anyone.
IMO one of the best adverts and most innovative devices I’ve seen was the original Surface Studio, innovative for a target audience, fresh, and a great advert.
Anyway I digress, the Surface Pro is not restricted by its OS, the iPad Pro is, now.
Still as it stands now their is a huge second hand market, I didn’t mention it as you hadn’t brought up the license costs on new games before. And so it puts a flaw in your argument.