New York State Senate passes right to repair legislation

Posted:
in General Discussion
The New York State Senate has voted to pass right to repair legislation that could force Apple and other companies to make it easier for customers and repair shops to fix their devices.

Credit: Apple
Credit: Apple


On Thursday, the New York State Senate voted 51-12 to pass the Digital Fair Repair Act, becoming the country's first legislative body to approve a right to repair bill. The bill requires that original equipment manufacturers provide all the proprietary information and resources necessary for repairs available for sale to third-party repair providers and consumers.

To become law in New York, the bill still needs to pass the state's assembly. From there, it'll need to be signed by the governor. Currently, the New York State Assembly version of the bill is stalled, but lobbyists are working on getting it passed.

"Nothing prevents third party repairers from being technically competent to complete digital repairs other than the lack of information being withheld by manufacturers," the bill says.

Although it would compel companies to share detailed information about devices, the bill specifically does not include "trade secrets."

Apple opposes right to repair legislation, citing concerns about consumer safety and device security. The Cupertino tech giant has spent millions lobbying against similar bills across the country.

Internal communications revealed during a U.S. House investigation showed that there isn't a consensus about right to repair among Apple employees. Publicly, Apple has been expanding its independent repair provider program, which offers resources to approved third-party shops.

Currently, half of the states in the U.S. are set to consider similar right to repair bills in 2021.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 55
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,045member
    OMG! We'd better stay out of New York - all the phones are going to start exploding because of dangerous repairs! /s
    lam92103muthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondonCloudTalkinsdw2001darkvaderchemengin1
  • Reply 2 of 55
    tstumptstump Posts: 29member
    Silly.
    If I bought some beautiful pieces of Marano glass in Italy, would I or should I be able to sue the manufacture if they don’t make it really easy for me to repair that glass should I drop it or break it?
    That art glass cannot be fixed with just simple glue and tape. It takes years of training and experience, a special kiln, years of experience in a special kind of person to do the work.
    If it were legislated that everyone should be able to buy some silicone glass sealer repair or whatever you wanna call it, and a microwave kit to fix that piece of art,… Well like I said, that’s just silly.
    No One in Marano would want you saying that you’re broken and did repaired piece of art glass was from there historically famous little islands.
    Beatsjas99magman1979leavingthebiggwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 55
    JFC_PAJFC_PA Posts: 553member
    An Indiana  state legislature once unanimously passed a bill to set Pi to an even 3.2. It did get hung in the other chamber. Politicians? Not the best mix with tech. 

    [How’s our Forest Service doing in that Moon orbit adjustment to possibly fight climate change as suggested by a member of Congress?]

    but hey? Okay, at which point all claims against Apple for anything about that “repaired” device are voided. 
    edited June 10 williamlondonBeatslkruppwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 55
    d_2d_2 Posts: 95member
    Is this really in the interest of consumers?  And, Who’s pushing this ?

    One would think the NY state legislature has a few more important issues to address. 
    williamlondonBeatsmagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 55
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,612member
    MplsP said:
    OMG! We'd better stay out of New York - all the phones are going to start exploding because of dangerous repairs! /s
    No... what will happen is those sketchy repair shops using crappy batteries for iPhones end up exploding, and then everyone blaming Apple.  That's what will happen.
    JFC_PAchasmwilliamlondonBeatsjas99magman1979Rayz2016lkruppleavingthebiggbeowulfschmidt
  • Reply 6 of 55
    swineoneswineone Posts: 46member
    The average Apple tech is much less knowledgeable and skilled than quite a few independent technicianS. I would trust e.g. Louis Rossmann with my hardware over ANY Apple technician. I mean ANY. There is no technician working at Apple that could do their job as well as Louis does. BTW: I’m an electrical engineer, I design portable electronic devices, and I’ve spent quite a few hours watching Louis’ videos. He displays impressive skills. And often he has to fix a crap job done by, guess who, Apple technicians.
    muthuk_vanalingamavon b7williamlondonnumenoreandarkvadergatorguy
  • Reply 7 of 55
    swineoneswineone Posts: 46member
    tstump said:
    Silly.
    If I bought some beautiful pieces of Marano glass in Italy, would I or should I be able to sue the manufacture if they don’t make it really easy for me to repair that glass should I drop it or break it?
    That art glass cannot be fixed with just simple glue and tape. It takes years of training and experience, a special kiln, years of experience in a special kind of person to do the work.
    If it were legislated that everyone should be able to buy some silicone glass sealer repair or whatever you wanna call it, and a microwave kit to fix that piece of art,… Well like I said, that’s just silly.
    No One in Marano would want you saying that you’re broken and did repaired piece of art glass was from there historically famous little islands.
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

    Wow. I mean... just... wow.


    williamlondonMplsPITGUYINSDnumenoreandarkvaderchemengin1gatorguy
  • Reply 8 of 55
    swineoneswineone Posts: 46member

    sflocal said:
    MplsP said:
    OMG! We'd better stay out of New York - all the phones are going to start exploding because of dangerous repairs! /s
    No... what will happen is those sketchy repair shops using crappy batteries for iPhones end up exploding, and then everyone blaming Apple.  That's what will happen.
    Right, like they don’t do that already. If Apple was really worried about the safety of its users, it would sell genuine batteries to their party techs, knowing that people would go to these techs regardless. But since Apple only cares about the bottom line, they’re fighting this. And look, they really should worry about the bottom line, that’s the point of s company. Just don’t be such hypocrites about it. Apple only cares about you as much as they can shake cash out of you. Sorry, that’s the truth, regardless of the touchy-feels rehearsed to death lines you see on keynotes,
    muthuk_vanalingamavon b7williamlondonCloudTalkinnumenoreandarkvaderchemengin1gatorguy
  • Reply 9 of 55
    pwrmacpwrmac Posts: 2member
    So now politicians make law that dictates how consumer goods are or should be designed. Most regulations seem to target one company in particular. What a joke
    williamlondonBeatsjas99sdw2001magman1979leavingthebiggwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 55
    chasmchasm Posts: 2,365member
    I support Right of Repair on things that don’t contain incredibly sensitive/personal information about me. See also the recent Pegatron repair shop case.

    That’s the line, at least for me.
    Beatsjas99magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 55
    swineone said:
    The average Apple tech is much less knowledgeable and skilled than quite a few independent technicianS. I would trust e.g. Louis Rossmann with my hardware over ANY Apple technician. I mean ANY. There is no technician working at Apple that could do their job as well as Louis does. BTW: I’m an electrical engineer, I design portable electronic devices, and I’ve spent quite a few hours watching Louis’ videos. He displays impressive skills. And often he has to fix a crap job done by, guess who, Apple technicians.
    Bullshit. And if he wants to become a certified repair person, I'm fine with that, but your other claims are pure bullshit.

    BTW, anecdotes prove nothing
    edited June 11 Beatsjas99magman1979hammeroftruthfahlmanwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 55
    swineone said:
    The average Apple tech is much less knowledgeable and skilled than quite a few independent technicianS. I would trust e.g. Louis Rossmann with my hardware over ANY Apple technician. I mean ANY. There is no technician working at Apple that could do their job as well as Louis does. BTW: I’m an electrical engineer, I design portable electronic devices, and I’ve spent quite a few hours watching Louis’ videos. He displays impressive skills. And often he has to fix a crap job done by, guess who, Apple technicians.
    Bullshit. And if he wants to become a certified repair person, I'm fine with that, but your other claims are pure bullshit.

    BTW, anecdotes prove nothing

    The problem of becoming a certified apple repair shop for Louis Rossmann and many others, is that they would lose the ability to offer the services they currently offer. He does data recovery for example, Apple does not. If he became certified he would not be able to offer that service anymore.
    muthuk_vanalingamnumenoreandarkvadergatorguy
  • Reply 13 of 55
    swineone said:
    The average Apple tech is much less knowledgeable and skilled than quite a few independent technicianS. I would trust e.g. Louis Rossmann with my hardware over ANY Apple technician. I mean ANY. There is no technician working at Apple that could do their job as well as Louis does. BTW: I’m an electrical engineer, I design portable electronic devices, and I’ve spent quite a few hours watching Louis’ videos. He displays impressive skills. And often he has to fix a crap job done by, guess who, Apple technicians.
    Bullshit. And if he wants to become a certified repair person, I'm fine with that, but your other claims are pure bullshit.

    BTW, anecdotes prove nothing

    The problem of becoming a certified apple repair shop for Louis Rossmann and many others, is that they would lose the ability to offer the services they currently offer. He does data recovery for example, Apple does not. If he became certified he would not be able to offer that service anymore.
    Boo hoo hoo.
    magman1979
  • Reply 14 of 55
    swineone said:
    The average Apple tech is much less knowledgeable and skilled than quite a few independent technicianS. I would trust e.g. Louis Rossmann with my hardware over ANY Apple technician. I mean ANY. There is no technician working at Apple that could do their job as well as Louis does. BTW: I’m an electrical engineer, I design portable electronic devices, and I’ve spent quite a few hours watching Louis’ videos. He displays impressive skills. And often he has to fix a crap job done by, guess who, Apple technicians.
    Bullshit. And if he wants to become a certified repair person, I'm fine with that, but your other claims are pure bullshit.

    BTW, anecdotes prove nothing
    Nice argument you put there, “bullshit”. I’m fully convinced by this one magical word.

    Screw the actual facts, such as that Louis Rossmann quite often fixes Macs deemed unfixable by Apple. And especially, how he performs fixes much more cheaply (never mind environmentally friendly) than Apple by replacing the few targeted components that actually failed rather than whole boards at a time as the Apple technicians do — indeed, if his fixes weren’t cheaper than Apple’s, who would be crazy to hire him rather than Apple fix their devices?

    Plus, he does all of these things without proper access to repair documentation and knowledge bases, and most importantly, to the parts he needs. For those who don’t know: Apple has the awful habit of calling up an IC manufacturer and throwing their weight around to require the manufacturer to create a small variation of an existing part, with a trivial and technically unnecessary change such as swapping a couple of pins around. Then Apple won’t let the manufacturer sell the same part to anyone else but Apple or provide documentation on it. Thus, repair technicians can’t get ahold of it, and must take these parts from donor boards. This is simply the most actively user-hostile move by a company that I’ve ever seen in my life. It truly sickens me every time I think of it, especially when you consider all the (lying) marketing strategy from Apple trying to paint it as a nice, friendly company that just wants to help its customers and the environment. This one example brings all that illusion down.
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamnumenoreandarkvadergatorguy
  • Reply 15 of 55
    swineone said:
    swineone said:
    The average Apple tech is much less knowledgeable and skilled than quite a few independent technicianS. I would trust e.g. Louis Rossmann with my hardware over ANY Apple technician. I mean ANY. There is no technician working at Apple that could do their job as well as Louis does. BTW: I’m an electrical engineer, I design portable electronic devices, and I’ve spent quite a few hours watching Louis’ videos. He displays impressive skills. And often he has to fix a crap job done by, guess who, Apple technicians.
    Bullshit. And if he wants to become a certified repair person, I'm fine with that, but your other claims are pure bullshit.

    BTW, anecdotes prove nothing
    Nice argument you put there, “bullshit”. I’m fully convinced by this one magical word.

    Screw the actual facts, such as that Louis Rossmann quite often fixes Macs deemed unfixable by Apple. And especially, how he performs fixes much more cheaply (never mind environmentally friendly) than Apple by replacing the few targeted components that actually failed rather than whole boards at a time as the Apple technicians do — indeed, if his fixes weren’t cheaper than Apple’s, who would be crazy to hire him rather than Apple fix their devices?

    Plus, he does all of these things without proper access to repair documentation and knowledge bases, and most importantly, to the parts he needs. For those who don’t know: Apple has the awful habit of calling up an IC manufacturer and throwing their weight around to require the manufacturer to create a small variation of an existing part, with a trivial and technically unnecessary change such as swapping a couple of pins around. Then Apple won’t let the manufacturer sell the same part to anyone else but Apple or provide documentation on it. Thus, repair technicians can’t get ahold of it, and must take these parts from donor boards. This is simply the most actively user-hostile move by a company that I’ve ever seen in my life. It truly sickens me every time I think of it, especially when you consider all the (lying) marketing strategy from Apple trying to paint it as a nice, friendly company that just wants to help its customers and the environment. This one example brings all that illusion down.
    Anecdotes, like exceptions, prove nothing. One man is NOT better than *ANY* Apple technician. Your argument is so ridiculous, just stop.
    Beatsjas99sdw2001magman1979gatorguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 55
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,320member
    swineone said:
    The average Apple tech is much less knowledgeable and skilled than quite a few independent technicianS. I would trust e.g. Louis Rossmann with my hardware over ANY Apple technician. I mean ANY. There is no technician working at Apple that could do their job as well as Louis does. BTW: I’m an electrical engineer, I design portable electronic devices, and I’ve spent quite a few hours watching Louis’ videos. He displays impressive skills. And often he has to fix a crap job done by, guess who, Apple technicians.

    That man is an idiot. I wouldn’t let him touch any of my Apple devices.

    Apple can at least take the blame if they fu** up. I’ve had Apple employees just hand me a refurbished device no questions asked when I’ve dropped my devices and broken them. Great customer service and no bashing original Apple products to promote some spyware cheap knockoff. 
    jas99williamlondonfahlmanwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 55
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,765member
    swineone said:
    The average Apple tech is much less knowledgeable and skilled than quite a few independent technicianS. I would trust e.g. Louis Rossmann with my hardware over ANY Apple technician. I mean ANY. There is no technician working at Apple that could do their job as well as Louis does. BTW: I’m an electrical engineer, I design portable electronic devices, and I’ve spent quite a few hours watching Louis’ videos. He displays impressive skills. And often he has to fix a crap job done by, guess who, Apple technicians.
    Bullshit. And if he wants to become a certified repair person, I'm fine with that, but your other claims are pure bullshit.

    BTW, anecdotes prove nothing
    Bullshit?

    How many videos have you watched, or others which indicate Apple repair technicians have actually made 'unrepairable' devices harder to repair by breaking parts and not disclosing the breakage to the customer on returning the device?

    Or how 'faults' like the screen ribbon on laptops wearing out and Apple quietly improving the design down the road and never admitting the original 'fault' existed in the first place.

    Right to repair is important but what is more important IMO is 'design to repair' something the much loved /s EU is working on too.

    Disposable electronics should be taxed out of existence. 
    muthuk_vanalingamdarkvadergatorguy
  • Reply 18 of 55
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,765member
    Beats said:
    swineone said:
    The average Apple tech is much less knowledgeable and skilled than quite a few independent technicianS. I would trust e.g. Louis Rossmann with my hardware over ANY Apple technician. I mean ANY. There is no technician working at Apple that could do their job as well as Louis does. BTW: I’m an electrical engineer, I design portable electronic devices, and I’ve spent quite a few hours watching Louis’ videos. He displays impressive skills. And often he has to fix a crap job done by, guess who, Apple technicians.

    That man is an idiot. I wouldn’t let him touch any of my Apple devices.

    Apple can at least take the blame if they fu** up. I’ve had Apple employees just hand me a refurbished device no questions asked when I’ve dropped my devices and broken them. Great customer service and no bashing original Apple products to promote some spyware cheap knockoff. 
    What makes him an idiot? He is basing his opinion on experience and you can choose to agree or disagree with him but it's very hard to argue against what he's saying when he's giving you example after example of real world issues.

    Your Apple employees offering you refurbished devices is ONLY in warranty. You'd probably sing a different tune if you presented the same cases out of warranty! 
    edited June 11 muthuk_vanalingamdarkvader
  • Reply 19 of 55
    swineoneswineone Posts: 46member
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    swineone said:
    The average Apple tech is much less knowledgeable and skilled than quite a few independent technicianS. I would trust e.g. Louis Rossmann with my hardware over ANY Apple technician. I mean ANY. There is no technician working at Apple that could do their job as well as Louis does. BTW: I’m an electrical engineer, I design portable electronic devices, and I’ve spent quite a few hours watching Louis’ videos. He displays impressive skills. And often he has to fix a crap job done by, guess who, Apple technicians.

    That man is an idiot. I wouldn’t let him touch any of my Apple devices.

    Apple can at least take the blame if they fu** up. I’ve had Apple employees just hand me a refurbished device no questions asked when I’ve dropped my devices and broken them. Great customer service and no bashing original Apple products to promote some spyware cheap knockoff. 
    What makes him an idiot? He is basing his opinion on experience and you can choose to agree or disagree with him but it's very hard to argue against what he's saying when he's giving you example after example of real world issues.

    Your Apple employees offering you refurbished devices is ONLY in warranty. You'd probably sing a different tune if you presented the same cases out of warranty! 
    Precisely. It’s so convenient for Apple that they’ll only perform full part swaps (say a top case, or the full display and enclosure, or the worst of all, the logic board). While it’s under warranty, great — if Apple wants to condemn a fully working logic board with one fried voltage regulator worth a few cents at their loss, fine by me. When it’s no longer under warranty, they’ll conveniently quote a price that’s worth as much as the computer itself on the second hand market, so the customer will just give up and conveniently buy a shiny new Mac.

    Some people are easily bribed, as this shows, by some show of “great customer service” while under warranty — and by the way, that failed logic board of yours, do you think Apple just throws it in the trash? They’ll send it to an employee which will perform a component-level repair quite like what Louis does, and then sell it as refurbished. But they’ll sure charge the full cost of the replaced part out of warranty to you, even though they’ll fix your broken one and later resell it as refurbished.

    Louis Rossmann will just do what’s nice and fair: charge you the actual cost of fixing the issue (and obviously his time to diagnose it, and supporting costs to keep his business alive — still much less than what Apple will charge you for a full part swap.)
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamdarkvadergatorguy
  • Reply 20 of 55
    swineoneswineone Posts: 46member

    swineone said:
    swineone said:
    The average Apple tech is much less knowledgeable and skilled than quite a few independent technicianS. I would trust e.g. Louis Rossmann with my hardware over ANY Apple technician. I mean ANY. There is no technician working at Apple that could do their job as well as Louis does. BTW: I’m an electrical engineer, I design portable electronic devices, and I’ve spent quite a few hours watching Louis’ videos. He displays impressive skills. And often he has to fix a crap job done by, guess who, Apple technicians.
    Bullshit. And if he wants to become a certified repair person, I'm fine with that, but your other claims are pure bullshit.

    BTW, anecdotes prove nothing
    Nice argument you put there, “bullshit”. I’m fully convinced by this one magical word.

    Screw the actual facts, such as that Louis Rossmann quite often fixes Macs deemed unfixable by Apple. And especially, how he performs fixes much more cheaply (never mind environmentally friendly) than Apple by replacing the few targeted components that actually failed rather than whole boards at a time as the Apple technicians do — indeed, if his fixes weren’t cheaper than Apple’s, who would be crazy to hire him rather than Apple fix their devices?

    Plus, he does all of these things without proper access to repair documentation and knowledge bases, and most importantly, to the parts he needs. For those who don’t know: Apple has the awful habit of calling up an IC manufacturer and throwing their weight around to require the manufacturer to create a small variation of an existing part, with a trivial and technically unnecessary change such as swapping a couple of pins around. Then Apple won’t let the manufacturer sell the same part to anyone else but Apple or provide documentation on it. Thus, repair technicians can’t get ahold of it, and must take these parts from donor boards. This is simply the most actively user-hostile move by a company that I’ve ever seen in my life. It truly sickens me every time I think of it, especially when you consider all the (lying) marketing strategy from Apple trying to paint it as a nice, friendly company that just wants to help its customers and the environment. This one example brings all that illusion down.
    Anecdotes, like exceptions, prove nothing. One man is NOT better than *ANY* Apple technician. Your argument is so ridiculous, just stop.
    Really? It’s impossible for one person to be better than the best in a given set of persons?

    Let’s try this. Skill = playing tennis. Set of persons = { me, my wife }. One person = Roger Federer.

    Your argument is that Roger Federer can’t possibly be better than me or my wife at tennis.

    Now who has the ridiculous argument again?
    williamlondoncrowleydarkvader
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