Fair enough, if you want to play the semantics card,
Is it “playing the semantics card” to correct someone who says that something isn’t what it is literally defined as being? You prefer to let blatant untruths just slide?
Seems like entirely the wrong thing to have a bee in your bonnet about.
Fair enough, if you want to play the semantics card, but it's no more "avoidance" than a family filing in the way that is most advantageous to the family as a whole and taking their maximum deductions. Even beyond that, public corporations have fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders that legally REQUIRE them to act in shareholders' best interest, which would certainly include maximizing their tax savings.
I’m sure the shareholders lawsuit against Tim Ccok implementing a charitable match policy because it’s cost them a few pennies of share value is incoming.
Absolute nonsense whenever this fiduciary responsibility” crap is waved around as an excuse for companies indulging in shady, deceitful behaviour.
CongressCritter: Hey, some of my big corporate friends want tax loopholes they can use to lower their tax bill.
Other CongressCritters: OK, sounds good. We'll add in loopholes for our friends too.
CC: Cool. Deal.
OCC: Yay!
Later:
CC: Hey, some people I don't like are using those tax loopholes we added. We need to raise a hue and cry about that and accuse them of "tax avoidance" so people don't realize that we are the ones who set it up like that.
OCC: Yeah, we'll pass new laws that target our not-friends. Need to make sure our friends are still covered though.
The only thing this shines a spotlight on is that corporate taxes are so high in the US that companies need to put money in other countries.
And yet they’re lower than the corporate rate during Reagan. Do you really believe they wouldn’t deploy avoidance tactics no matter what the number was, as long as it was cheaper elsewhere? Get real.
You missed the point. The money will go wherever it’s cheapest to be. Currently, it’s cheaper almost anywhere outside the US.
If you think we can shame companies into paying US taxes, get real. The list of companies funding human rights abuses in China is endless, but no one cares even though everyone knows about it. They keep doing business with China because it’s the best place to make crap.
"Large companies are regularly accused of skirting taxes using various strategies and loopholes. In 2013, the Senate accused Apple of creating offshore subsidiaries to avoid paying billions in U.S. taxes. In 2019, Germany's finance minister said that Apple and other companies are escaping much of their fair tax burden."
greedy government wants to control your money so they can accomplish their mess of an agenda. I used your voice. But they’ll gladly force you to pay for it
‘’when there are legal ways to keep more of your money, that not avoidance. It’s being responsible.
Er, yes, it is literally avoidance.
You, or your corporation, are not obligated to pay one penny more than the legal taxable amount required by law:
FROM THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE TAXPAYER BILL OF RIGHTS:
"Taxpayers have the right to pay only the amount of tax legally due, including interest and penalties, and to have the IRS apply all tax payments properly."
If loopholes exist, it is up to tax-collecting governments to correct them. If taxpayers in the meantime take advantage of the loophole, they are not doing anything illegal.
If loopholes exist it’s because of two reasons 1) Politicians intentionally put them there, or 2) Politicians were too stupid to realize they put them there.
"Large companies are regularly accused of skirting taxes using various strategies and loopholes. In 2013, the Senate accused Apple of creating offshore subsidiaries to avoid paying billions in U.S. taxes. In 2019, Germany's finance minister said that Apple and other companies are escaping much of their fair tax burden."
greedy government wants to control your money so they can accomplish their mess of an agenda. I used your voice. But they’ll gladly force you to pay for it
‘’when there are legal ways to keep more of your money, that not avoidance. It’s being responsible.
Er, yes, it is literally avoidance.
You, or your corporation, are not obligated to pay one penny more than the legal taxable amount required by law:
FROM THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE TAXPAYER BILL OF RIGHTS:
"Taxpayers have the right to pay only the amount of tax legally due, including interest and penalties, and to have the IRS apply all tax payments properly."
If loopholes exist, it is up to tax-collecting governments to correct them. If taxpayers in the meantime take advantage of the loophole, they are not doing anything illegal.
If loopholes exist it’s because of two reasons 1) Politicians intentionally put them there, or 2) Politicians were too stupid to realize they put them there.
No idiots in this game except the people worth less than 1M by adult in family that support tax avoidance. Read about BEPS in Wikipedia.
"Large companies are regularly accused of skirting taxes using various strategies and loopholes. In 2013, the Senate accused Apple of creating offshore subsidiaries to avoid paying billions in U.S. taxes. In 2019, Germany's finance minister said that Apple and other companies are escaping much of their fair tax burden."
greedy government wants to control your money so they can accomplish their mess of an agenda. I used your voice. But they’ll gladly force you to pay for it
‘’when there are legal ways to keep more of your money, that not avoidance. It’s being responsible.
Er, yes, it is literally avoidance.
You, or your corporation, are not obligated to pay one penny more than the legal taxable amount required by law:
FROM THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE TAXPAYER BILL OF RIGHTS:
"Taxpayers have the right to pay only the amount of tax legally due, including interest and penalties, and to have the IRS apply all tax payments properly."
If loopholes exist, it is up to tax-collecting governments to correct them. If taxpayers in the meantime take advantage of the loophole, they are not doing anything illegal.
If loopholes exist it’s because of two reasons 1) Politicians intentionally put them there, or 2) Politicians were too stupid to realize they put them there.
Do you even know what the loopholes are? Have a clue before you accuse other people of being stupid; international tax rules are really complicated, and with 200+ independent countries with different tax regimes, practically impossible to create something at a local level without a single ambiguity that can be exploited.
All I know is I end up paying 15% of my gross income in just federal taxes every year. If anyone is paying less, I feel I am being cheated. I am a salary worker, like most people. Not a millionaire. 15% hurts. Add to that 6% sales tax, and state tax. Normal people can easily be paying over 25% in taxes.
Sometimes I will go to a business that is cash only and I get angry, because I know for a fact they are not claiming all that cash income on their taxes. So that means I have to pay their share.
I really feel rich people and corporations should pay MORE taxes, but it seems they pay even a smaller percentage than I do in reality.
Oh, sorry Mr. Rich Boy you had to pay some taxes so couldn't afford a new Bentley every 6 months, and had to make due with an AMG Mercedes. Life must be hard!
Those "cash only" places are probably no better off than you are. They are almost always very small mom and pops. And yes, I agree that the weather you are the more likely you pay less in taxes as a percentage of the money you truly get in a year than the typical middle-class hourly worker. No, I don't think that's fair either.
Just curious who you really think pays corporate taxes.
Unless Apple wasn't already maximizing their profits with charging what the market would bear, which would be one heckuva surprise if they weren't, it's not a consumer buying an Apple product. It's the stockholders, altho the basis for stock prices themselves are a mirage.
Just curious who you really think pays corporate taxes.
I know you think you're being clever, but it's actually corporations. Yep, corporations. Maybe they'll pass it one as a cost, but it's still them paying it. And since other companies aren't screwing the system up by using devious accounting and won't raise prices to maintain their precious margin, maybe they'll start to get custom. Because that's the point.
The US Government is, on some level, by the people and for the people. The problem therefore in the USA lies more with the people. Even from this thread we see 50% are divided. You have the bleeding hearts who can only feel good in life when forcibly removing tax dollars from the pockets of their neighbors, doing it, as they say, "for the greater good." And then you have their ideological opponents who say, "I don't want to pay that, and I don't want you to be forced to pay that either." Neither group is 100% against taxes. It's just that one group wants bigger government and more taxation than the other.
In some ways it goes all the way back to Jeffersonian liberals who were at odds with the Federalists. All the talk about corporations, the rich, and loopholes fall to pieces when we see this has been a long and ongoing debate with no easy resolution. All that the respective sides can do is keep fighting. Sometimes the lower-tax proponents win candidates who give some tax relief, then fickle voters say they have enough of that and vote in the opposing side who tax and spend like mad. Then another election comes and America swings back again. We debate about taxes, but the voting cycles show that nothing really changes. So on some level, we're all wasting our time even talking about it. At the end of the day, it's just an article that triggered us all in writing here, wasting all of our time for what? Well, since we aren't changing anything, the answer is: "for nothing."
All I know is I end up paying 15% of my gross income in just federal taxes every year. If anyone is paying less, I feel I am being cheated. I am a salary worker, like most people. Not a millionaire. 15% hurts. Add to that 6% sales tax, and state tax. Normal people can easily be paying over 25% in taxes.
Sometimes I will go to a business that is cash only and I get angry, because I know for a fact they are not claiming all that cash income on their taxes. So that means I have to pay their share.
I really feel rich people and corporations should pay MORE taxes, but it seems they pay even a smaller percentage than I do in reality.
Oh, sorry Mr. Rich Boy you had to pay some taxes so couldn't afford a new Bentley every 6 months, and had to make due with an AMG Mercedes. Life must be hard!
Credit card fees are on average 2% per transaction. That can seriously add up for a small business. I think it's less about avoiding paying taxes on cash and more about getting killed with transaction fees. Some places just won't take certain cards who have higher fees ( Discover & Amex) , rather than not take them at all.
Comments
Seems like entirely the wrong thing to have a bee in your bonnet about.
Absolute nonsense whenever this fiduciary responsibility” crap is waved around as an excuse for companies indulging in shady, deceitful behaviour.
Other CongressCritters: OK, sounds good. We'll add in loopholes for our friends too.
CC: Cool. Deal.
OCC: Yay!
Later:
CC: Hey, some people I don't like are using those tax loopholes we added. We need to raise a hue and cry about that and accuse them of "tax avoidance" so people don't realize that we are the ones who set it up like that.
OCC: Yeah, we'll pass new laws that target our not-friends. Need to make sure our friends are still covered though.
CC: Yeah!
If you think we can shame companies into paying US taxes, get real. The list of companies funding human rights abuses in China is endless, but no one cares even though everyone knows about it. They keep doing business with China because it’s the best place to make crap.
In some ways it goes all the way back to Jeffersonian liberals who were at odds with the Federalists. All the talk about corporations, the rich, and loopholes fall to pieces when we see this has been a long and ongoing debate with no easy resolution. All that the respective sides can do is keep fighting. Sometimes the lower-tax proponents win candidates who give some tax relief, then fickle voters say they have enough of that and vote in the opposing side who tax and spend like mad. Then another election comes and America swings back again. We debate about taxes, but the voting cycles show that nothing really changes. So on some level, we're all wasting our time even talking about it. At the end of the day, it's just an article that triggered us all in writing here, wasting all of our time for what? Well, since we aren't changing anything, the answer is: "for nothing."