Samsung, Vivo eat into Apple's dominant 5G smartphone lead

Posted:
in General Discussion edited June 18
Apple's command of the global 5G smartphone market held in the first quarter of 2021, though competitors are closing in fast in what has become an increasingly liquid segment.

iPhone 12 Pro Max


Apple shipped an estimated 40.4 million 5G-capable iPhones in the first quarter to take a 29.8% share of the global market, according to research firm Strategy Analytics. That figure is down 23% sequentially, and competing companies are quickly picking up the slack.

Second place Oppo shipped 21.5 million units for a 15.8% marketshare over the same period, up 55% from the last quarter of 2020.

Vivo managed 19.4 million shipments for 14.3% of the market, while Samsung hit 17 million units shipped for a 12.5% slice of the pie. Sales for the two firms grew by 62% and 79%, respectively.

Xiaomi, which shipped 16.6 million 5G handsets during the quarter, came away with 12.2% of the market, up 41% quarter-over-quarter.

"Samsung is performing well with new 5G models, such as Galaxy S21 5G, S21 ultra 5G and S21+ 5G, in South Korea, North America, and parts of Europe," said Ville-Petteri Ukonaho, associate director at Strategy Analytics. "Meanwhile, Apple dipped 23% quarter-over-quarter, following a blowout Q4 2020 where the new 5G iPhone was wildly popular as a gift during the holiday season."

The research firm forecasts global 5G smartphone shipments to reach 624 million units during 2021, a huge rise from 269 million sold across 2020.

Apple's launched its first 5G iPhone series last fall with the release of iPhone 12, iPhone 12 Pro, iPhone 12 Pro Max and iPhone 12 mini. Compatibility with speedy mmWave 5G technology was restricted to the U.S., though access to slower sub-6GHz bands was apparently enough to spur a sales bump in China.

The new connectivity capability helped fuel a major boost in iPhone sales for the three-month period ending in March. Whether the company is able to carry that momentum through to its usual fall hardware refresh is unclear.

Apple is expected to deliver mmWave 5G to more countries with this year's "iPhone 13" upgrade cycle.

Keep up with everything Apple in the weekly AppleInsider Podcast -- and get a fast news update from AppleInsider Daily. Just say, "Hey, Siri," to your HomePod mini and ask for these podcasts, and our latest HomeKit Insider episode too.If you want an ad-free main AppleInsider Podcast experience, you can support the AppleInsider podcast by subscribing for $5 per month through Apple's Podcasts app, or via Patreon if you prefer any other podcast player.AppleInsider is also bringing you the best Apple-related deals for Amazon Prime Day 2021. There are bargains before, during, and even after Prime Day on June 21 and 22 -- with every deal at your fingertips throughout the event.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 35
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,408member
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Rayz2016tokyojimumattinozapplguyStrangeDays
  • Reply 2 of 35
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,808member
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    edited June 17 elijahg
  • Reply 3 of 35
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,000member
    My my, new releases cause spike in sales and decline as the product ages (relatively). Who would have thought?
  • Reply 4 of 35
    davidwdavidw Posts: 1,274member
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Well, at least we now know you are not the Devil. Your post is lacking in a lot of detail. 

    Every report I've seen, Apple is the "5G" leader in 1st Q 2021 market share with about 40% of the 5G units sold, (in the 1st Q of 2021). 

    You may be surprise (shock even), to know that there is usually a massive loss of sales (with nearly every company dealing in retail) every 1st Q of the year, when comparing QoQ. That's because the 1st Q of the year comes after the Holiday Q of the last year. The Holiday Q is usually the Q with the highest sales of the year for any company dealing in retail. This is why investors compare year to year Q. Apple is up 100% in units sold when compared to 1st Q of 2020. But it's down 23% when compared to 4th Q of 2020. Which is expected coming off a good Holiday Q.  No real bad news there. Nor a surprise for the knowledgable investors. And hold on to your hat, this might come as even a bigger shock to you. Apple's 2nd Q of the year is usually their slowest Q. So Apple might even report more loses QoQ. But still maintain a sizable gain when comparing YoY Q.  (Even that might not be a fair comparison as in the 2nd Q of 2020, we were in the middle of the pandemic and sales were exceptionally down for everyone, everywhere.)

    Then you got it wrong about claiming that  Apple was not the 5G handset leader in Q1 2021. Apple for sure was the 5G leader in marketshare in Q1 of 2021. What Apple wasn't, was the leader in all smartphones sold. As usual, that belongs to Samsung with 22%. Apple was second with 17%. In case you are unaware (and might even be shocked), not all smartphones sold in 1st Q of 2021 were 5G. (I'm pretty sure Apple discontinued all non 5G iPhones by the end of 2020, but not sure. Maybe they still sold old inventory in 1st Q)      

    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/
    lorca2770StrangeDaysBeatsRayz2016tmay
  • Reply 5 of 35
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Well, at least we now know you are not the Devil. Your post is lacking in a lot of detail. 

    Every report I've seen, Apple is the "5G" leader in 1st Q 2021 market share with about 40% of the 5G units sold, (in the 1st Q of 2021). 

    You may be surprise (shock even), to know that there is usually a massive loss of sales (with nearly every company dealing in retail) every 1st Q of the year, when comparing QoQ. That's because the 1st Q of the year comes after the Holiday Q of the last year. The Holiday Q is usually the Q with the highest sales of the year for any company dealing in retail. This is why investors compare year to year Q. Apple is up 100% in units sold when compared to 1st Q of 2020. But it's down 23% when compared to 4th Q of 2020. Which is expected coming off a good Holiday Q.  No real bad news there. Nor a surprise for the knowledgable investors. And hold on to your hat, this might come as even a bigger shock to you. Apple's 2nd Q of the year is usually their slowest Q. So Apple might even report more loses QoQ. But still maintain a sizable gain when comparing YoY Q.  (Even that might not be a fair comparison as in the 2nd Q of 2020, we were in the middle of the pandemic and sales were exceptionally down for everyone, everywhere.)

    Then you got it wrong about claiming that  Apple was not the 5G handset leader in Q1 2021. Apple for sure was the 5G leader in marketshare in Q1 of 2021. What Apple wasn't, was the leader in all smartphones sold. As usual, that belongs to Samsung with 22%. Apple was second with 17%. In case you are unaware (and might even be shocked), not all smartphones sold in 1st Q of 2021 were 5G. (I'm pretty sure Apple discontinued all non 5G iPhones by the end of 2020, but not sure. Maybe they still sold old inventory in 1st Q)      

    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/
    Hear, hear!
    StrangeDaysBeatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 35
    jimh2jimh2 Posts: 339member
    Not really a surprise as those other companies phones have massive subsidies yielding lower prices especially with the buy one get one when the buy one is already cheap. 

    It really makes no difference as brand switchers are the only people that really make a difference is subscriber counts. 
    Beatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 35
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,808member
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Well, at least we now know you are not the Devil. Your post is lacking in a lot of detail. 

    Every report I've seen, Apple is the "5G" leader in 1st Q 2021 market share with about 40% of the 5G units sold, (in the 1st Q of 2021). 

    You may be surprise (shock even), to know that there is usually a massive loss of sales (with nearly every company dealing in retail) every 1st Q of the year, when comparing QoQ. That's because the 1st Q of the year comes after the Holiday Q of the last year. The Holiday Q is usually the Q with the highest sales of the year for any company dealing in retail. This is why investors compare year to year Q. Apple is up 100% in units sold when compared to 1st Q of 2020. But it's down 23% when compared to 4th Q of 2020. Which is expected coming off a good Holiday Q.  No real bad news there. Nor a surprise for the knowledgable investors. And hold on to your hat, this might come as even a bigger shock to you. Apple's 2nd Q of the year is usually their slowest Q. So Apple might even report more loses QoQ. But still maintain a sizable gain when comparing YoY Q.  (Even that might not be a fair comparison as in the 2nd Q of 2020, we were in the middle of the pandemic and sales were exceptionally down for everyone, everywhere.)

    Then you got it wrong about claiming that  Apple was not the 5G handset leader in Q1 2021. Apple for sure was the 5G leader in marketshare in Q1 of 2021. What Apple wasn't, was the leader in all smartphones sold. As usual, that belongs to Samsung with 22%. Apple was second with 17%. In case you are unaware (and might even be shocked), not all smartphones sold in 1st Q of 2021 were 5G. (I'm pretty sure Apple discontinued all non 5G iPhones by the end of 2020, but not sure. Maybe they still sold old inventory in 1st Q)      

    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/
    The devil is in the details of the link posted in the article! Did you read it? 

    Yes. I'm fully aware of the cyclical nature of pent up demand, blow out quarter and subsequent reality check in later quarters and why it makes tiny snapshots meaningless! 

    I didn't spell it out because I thought it was stating the obvious. I mention the same points almost every single year when someone like Beats chimes in with a post just like the one I was replying to here. So, in the context of my reply, QoQ statements are very relevant because that is a key metric used in the linked article. 

    This article refers to Strategy Analytics. My comment referred to Strategy Analytics. 

    You are right. I am not the devil but you are wrong in your 5G claims all the same. 

    The devil is in realising that OPPO and VIVO belong to the same company (BBK Electronics Corporation) . Let's not even throw in OnePlus or Realme, right? 
    edited June 17 muthuk_vanalingamelijahgBeats
  • Reply 8 of 35
    davidwdavidw Posts: 1,274member
    avon b7 said:
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Well, at least we now know you are not the Devil. Your post is lacking in a lot of detail. 

    Every report I've seen, Apple is the "5G" leader in 1st Q 2021 market share with about 40% of the 5G units sold, (in the 1st Q of 2021). 

    You may be surprise (shock even), to know that there is usually a massive loss of sales (with nearly every company dealing in retail) every 1st Q of the year, when comparing QoQ. That's because the 1st Q of the year comes after the Holiday Q of the last year. The Holiday Q is usually the Q with the highest sales of the year for any company dealing in retail. This is why investors compare year to year Q. Apple is up 100% in units sold when compared to 1st Q of 2020. But it's down 23% when compared to 4th Q of 2020. Which is expected coming off a good Holiday Q.  No real bad news there. Nor a surprise for the knowledgable investors. And hold on to your hat, this might come as even a bigger shock to you. Apple's 2nd Q of the year is usually their slowest Q. So Apple might even report more loses QoQ. But still maintain a sizable gain when comparing YoY Q.  (Even that might not be a fair comparison as in the 2nd Q of 2020, we were in the middle of the pandemic and sales were exceptionally down for everyone, everywhere.)

    Then you got it wrong about claiming that  Apple was not the 5G handset leader in Q1 2021. Apple for sure was the 5G leader in marketshare in Q1 of 2021. What Apple wasn't, was the leader in all smartphones sold. As usual, that belongs to Samsung with 22%. Apple was second with 17%. In case you are unaware (and might even be shocked), not all smartphones sold in 1st Q of 2021 were 5G. (I'm pretty sure Apple discontinued all non 5G iPhones by the end of 2020, but not sure. Maybe they still sold old inventory in 1st Q)      

    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/
    The devil is in the details of the link posted in the article! Did you read it? 

    Yes. I'm fully aware of the cyclical nature of pent up demand, blow out quarter and subsequent reality check in later quarters and why it makes tiny snapshots meaningless! 

    I didn't spell it out because I thought it was stating the obvious. I mention the same points almost every single year when someone like Beats chimes in with a post just like the one I was replying to here. So, in the context of my reply, QoQ statements are very relevant because that is a key metric used in the linked article. 

    This article refers to Strategy Analytics. My comment referred to Strategy Analytics. 

    You are right. I am not the devil but you are wrong in your 5G claims all the same. 

    The devil is in realising that OPPO and VIVO belong to the same company (BBK Electronics Corporation) . Let's not even throw in OnePlus or Realme, right? 
    But no where in the SA article or anyone else that used the SA article as reference, did they report that .... "Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already .....". Those are your words and the way YOU saw it. Not the way SA or anyone else saw it and reported it. SA only stated that Apple market share "dipped "23% in the 1st Q of 2021, QoQ. And they know most of the "dip" was to be expected after reporting  Apple "blowout" Holiday 4th Q 2020, when Apple had over 40% marketshare of 5G phones (globally). More 5G marketshare than OPPO, Vivo, Samsung and Xiaomi, combined. The 5G marketshare Apple "stole" from those phone makers in 4th Q, returned to them in the 1st, which accounted for their "rapid growth" and Apple rapid decline (in the 5G market), QoQ. And more marketshare will return to them in the 2nd Q 2021.  

    This AI article only reported Apple marketshare was down 23%, QoQ. Not "massively down" or "already down".  
    Beatstmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 35
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,808member
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Well, at least we now know you are not the Devil. Your post is lacking in a lot of detail. 

    Every report I've seen, Apple is the "5G" leader in 1st Q 2021 market share with about 40% of the 5G units sold, (in the 1st Q of 2021). 

    You may be surprise (shock even), to know that there is usually a massive loss of sales (with nearly every company dealing in retail) every 1st Q of the year, when comparing QoQ. That's because the 1st Q of the year comes after the Holiday Q of the last year. The Holiday Q is usually the Q with the highest sales of the year for any company dealing in retail. This is why investors compare year to year Q. Apple is up 100% in units sold when compared to 1st Q of 2020. But it's down 23% when compared to 4th Q of 2020. Which is expected coming off a good Holiday Q.  No real bad news there. Nor a surprise for the knowledgable investors. And hold on to your hat, this might come as even a bigger shock to you. Apple's 2nd Q of the year is usually their slowest Q. So Apple might even report more loses QoQ. But still maintain a sizable gain when comparing YoY Q.  (Even that might not be a fair comparison as in the 2nd Q of 2020, we were in the middle of the pandemic and sales were exceptionally down for everyone, everywhere.)

    Then you got it wrong about claiming that  Apple was not the 5G handset leader in Q1 2021. Apple for sure was the 5G leader in marketshare in Q1 of 2021. What Apple wasn't, was the leader in all smartphones sold. As usual, that belongs to Samsung with 22%. Apple was second with 17%. In case you are unaware (and might even be shocked), not all smartphones sold in 1st Q of 2021 were 5G. (I'm pretty sure Apple discontinued all non 5G iPhones by the end of 2020, but not sure. Maybe they still sold old inventory in 1st Q)      

    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/
    The devil is in the details of the link posted in the article! Did you read it? 

    Yes. I'm fully aware of the cyclical nature of pent up demand, blow out quarter and subsequent reality check in later quarters and why it makes tiny snapshots meaningless! 

    I didn't spell it out because I thought it was stating the obvious. I mention the same points almost every single year when someone like Beats chimes in with a post just like the one I was replying to here. So, in the context of my reply, QoQ statements are very relevant because that is a key metric used in the linked article. 

    This article refers to Strategy Analytics. My comment referred to Strategy Analytics. 

    You are right. I am not the devil but you are wrong in your 5G claims all the same. 

    The devil is in realising that OPPO and VIVO belong to the same company (BBK Electronics Corporation) . Let's not even throw in OnePlus or Realme, right? 
    But no where in the SA article or anyone else that used the SA article as reference, did they report that .... "Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already .....". Those are your words and the way YOU saw it. Not the way SA or anyone else saw it and reported it. SA only stated that Apple market share "dipped "23% in the 1st Q of 2021, QoQ. And they know most of the "dip" was to be expected after reporting  Apple "blowout" Holiday 4th Q 2020, when Apple had over 40% marketshare of 5G phones (globally). More 5G marketshare than OPPO, Vivo, Samsung and Xiaomi, combined. The 5G marketshare Apple "stole" from those phone makers in 4th Q, returned to them in the 1st, which accounted for their "rapid growth" and Apple rapid decline (in the 5G market), QoQ. And more marketshare will return to them in the 2nd Q 2021.  

    This AI article only reported Apple marketshare was down 23%, QoQ. Not "massively down" or "already down".  
    The devil once again.

    You will notice I am not quoting Strategy Analytics anywhere. Yes, massive losses is my reading. If you personally see a 23% QoQ fall as a 'dip', you are free to do so. Don't mind me but don't try to tell me that nobody else saw that 23% as massive. You can't know but I think it's reasonable to see a 23% QoQ loss as anything but a 'dip'. 

    When I said 'according to Strategy Analytics' it means 'according to their numbers'. If I hadn't said that, someone would have popped their head up and said the numbers may as well be pie in the sky which of course would be a fair point, so I qualified the numbers. 

    What I didn't do is quote their comments, I drew your attention to the linked article which you have clearly bothered to read now.

    The real point here is relevant to Q1 2021 and IMO you were wrong to say I was wrong in my comment on 5G handsets.

    Instead of admitting your error or just saying nothing, now you are wrapping your position up in Q4 2020 and Q2 2021 data and completely ignoring the Q1 2021 numbers.

    If I said the devil was in the details, it was for a reason. 
    edited June 17
  • Reply 10 of 35
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,253member
    avon b7 said:
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Well, at least we now know you are not the Devil. Your post is lacking in a lot of detail. 

    Every report I've seen, Apple is the "5G" leader in 1st Q 2021 market share with about 40% of the 5G units sold, (in the 1st Q of 2021). 

    You may be surprise (shock even), to know that there is usually a massive loss of sales (with nearly every company dealing in retail) every 1st Q of the year, when comparing QoQ. That's because the 1st Q of the year comes after the Holiday Q of the last year. The Holiday Q is usually the Q with the highest sales of the year for any company dealing in retail. This is why investors compare year to year Q. Apple is up 100% in units sold when compared to 1st Q of 2020. But it's down 23% when compared to 4th Q of 2020. Which is expected coming off a good Holiday Q.  No real bad news there. Nor a surprise for the knowledgable investors. And hold on to your hat, this might come as even a bigger shock to you. Apple's 2nd Q of the year is usually their slowest Q. So Apple might even report more loses QoQ. But still maintain a sizable gain when comparing YoY Q.  (Even that might not be a fair comparison as in the 2nd Q of 2020, we were in the middle of the pandemic and sales were exceptionally down for everyone, everywhere.)

    Then you got it wrong about claiming that  Apple was not the 5G handset leader in Q1 2021. Apple for sure was the 5G leader in marketshare in Q1 of 2021. What Apple wasn't, was the leader in all smartphones sold. As usual, that belongs to Samsung with 22%. Apple was second with 17%. In case you are unaware (and might even be shocked), not all smartphones sold in 1st Q of 2021 were 5G. (I'm pretty sure Apple discontinued all non 5G iPhones by the end of 2020, but not sure. Maybe they still sold old inventory in 1st Q)      

    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/
    The devil is in the details of the link posted in the article! Did you read it? 

    Yes. I'm fully aware of the cyclical nature of pent up demand, blow out quarter and subsequent reality check in later quarters and why it makes tiny snapshots meaningless! 

    I didn't spell it out because I thought it was stating the obvious. I mention the same points almost every single year when someone like Beats chimes in with a post just like the one I was replying to here. So, in the context of my reply, QoQ statements are very relevant because that is a key metric used in the linked article. 

    This article refers to Strategy Analytics. My comment referred to Strategy Analytics. 

    You are right. I am not the devil but you are wrong in your 5G claims all the same. 

    The devil is in realising that OPPO and VIVO belong to the same company (BBK Electronics Corporation) . Let's not even throw in OnePlus or Realme, right? 
    But no where in the SA article or anyone else that used the SA article as reference, did they report that .... "Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already .....". Those are your words and the way YOU saw it. Not the way SA or anyone else saw it and reported it. SA only stated that Apple market share "dipped "23% in the 1st Q of 2021, QoQ. And they know most of the "dip" was to be expected after reporting  Apple "blowout" Holiday 4th Q 2020, when Apple had over 40% marketshare of 5G phones (globally). More 5G marketshare than OPPO, Vivo, Samsung and Xiaomi, combined. The 5G marketshare Apple "stole" from those phone makers in 4th Q, returned to them in the 1st, which accounted for their "rapid growth" and Apple rapid decline (in the 5G market), QoQ. And more marketshare will return to them in the 2nd Q 2021.  

    This AI article only reported Apple marketshare was down 23%, QoQ. Not "massively down" or "already down".  
    The devil once again.

    You will notice I am not quoting Strategy Analytics anywhere. Yes, massive losses is my reading. If you personally see a 23% QoQ fall as a 'dip', you are free to do so. Don't mind me but don't try to tell me that nobody else saw that 23% as massive. You can't know but I think it's reasonable to see a 23% QoQ loss as anything but a 'dip'. 

    When I said 'according to Strategy Analytics' it means 'according to their numbers'. If I hadn't said that, someone would have popped their head up and said the numbers may as well be pie in the sky which of course would be a fair point, so I qualified the numbers. 

    What I didn't do is quote their comments, I drew your attention to the linked article which you have clearly bothered to read now.

    The real point here is relevant to Q1 2021 and IMO you were wrong to say I was wrong in my comment on 5G handsets.

    Instead of admitting your error or just saying nothing, now you are wrapping your position up in Q4 2020 and Q2 2021 data and completely ignoring the Q1 2021 numbers.

    If I said the devil was in the details, it was for a reason. 
    Of for fucks sake,

    Apple had a "massive" blowout first quarter in 2020, ended up with about 25% of all 5G sales for that year, which is pretty amazing considering the iPhone 11 was only available for a little over a single quarter,  then had another "massive" blowout first quarter in 2021, ended up with 40% 5G marketshare, is now at 30% 5G marketshare, so a 23% 5G marketshare drop for its Q2 FY2021 isn't really indicative of anything other than Apple has sold 5G well into its base.

    That to me looks like Apple has been leading 5G sales, and the others now look "very late", and are just now catching up. Such is your fixation on unit marketshare, and specifically, 5G share, because Apple YOY iPhone sales are up from $29B in Q2 2020 to $48B in Q2 2021.

    Will you also complain if Apple ships 230 to 240 units at an ASP of $875, some $200B in iPhone revenue for FY 2021, because that is actually quite possible. It also makes the competition look threadbare...
    edited June 17 StrangeDaysBeatsRayz2016watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 35
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,382member
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Nope, not late. I have a 5G iPhone and give two shits about that feature — I couldn’t even use it for most the time I’ve had it due AT&T wanted me to upgrade my plan to use it. I switched to Mint because it’s a much better carrier ($15/mo) and have 5G now, but it hasn’t changed my life or even my use cases whatsoever. No change. 

    I know having 5G earlier was what you laid you head to sleep on for so long, but it’s totally meaningless for most people right now. Yawn.
    edited June 17 Beatsdewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 35
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,808member
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Nope, not late. I have a 5G iPhone and give two shits about that feature — I couldn’t even use it for most the time I’ve had it due AT&T wanted me to upgrade my plan to use it. I switched to Mint because it’s a much better carrier ($15/mo) and have 5G now, but it hasn’t changed my life or even my use cases whatsoever. No change. 

    I know having 5G earlier was what you laid you head to sleep on for so long, but it’s totally meaningless for most people right now. Yawn.
    Yes. Late. There is no questioning that. It's a material fact.

    The importance or not that you personally put onto that is something else.

    I, again, personally, think it was part of a huge strategic error. One which saw Intel fail to deliver on time and required Apple to totally re-think its situation with Qualcomm.

    You are free to think otherwise but Apple was late to 5G.
    edited June 17
  • Reply 13 of 35
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,808member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Well, at least we now know you are not the Devil. Your post is lacking in a lot of detail. 

    Every report I've seen, Apple is the "5G" leader in 1st Q 2021 market share with about 40% of the 5G units sold, (in the 1st Q of 2021). 

    You may be surprise (shock even), to know that there is usually a massive loss of sales (with nearly every company dealing in retail) every 1st Q of the year, when comparing QoQ. That's because the 1st Q of the year comes after the Holiday Q of the last year. The Holiday Q is usually the Q with the highest sales of the year for any company dealing in retail. This is why investors compare year to year Q. Apple is up 100% in units sold when compared to 1st Q of 2020. But it's down 23% when compared to 4th Q of 2020. Which is expected coming off a good Holiday Q.  No real bad news there. Nor a surprise for the knowledgable investors. And hold on to your hat, this might come as even a bigger shock to you. Apple's 2nd Q of the year is usually their slowest Q. So Apple might even report more loses QoQ. But still maintain a sizable gain when comparing YoY Q.  (Even that might not be a fair comparison as in the 2nd Q of 2020, we were in the middle of the pandemic and sales were exceptionally down for everyone, everywhere.)

    Then you got it wrong about claiming that  Apple was not the 5G handset leader in Q1 2021. Apple for sure was the 5G leader in marketshare in Q1 of 2021. What Apple wasn't, was the leader in all smartphones sold. As usual, that belongs to Samsung with 22%. Apple was second with 17%. In case you are unaware (and might even be shocked), not all smartphones sold in 1st Q of 2021 were 5G. (I'm pretty sure Apple discontinued all non 5G iPhones by the end of 2020, but not sure. Maybe they still sold old inventory in 1st Q)      

    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/
    The devil is in the details of the link posted in the article! Did you read it? 

    Yes. I'm fully aware of the cyclical nature of pent up demand, blow out quarter and subsequent reality check in later quarters and why it makes tiny snapshots meaningless! 

    I didn't spell it out because I thought it was stating the obvious. I mention the same points almost every single year when someone like Beats chimes in with a post just like the one I was replying to here. So, in the context of my reply, QoQ statements are very relevant because that is a key metric used in the linked article. 

    This article refers to Strategy Analytics. My comment referred to Strategy Analytics. 

    You are right. I am not the devil but you are wrong in your 5G claims all the same. 

    The devil is in realising that OPPO and VIVO belong to the same company (BBK Electronics Corporation) . Let's not even throw in OnePlus or Realme, right? 
    But no where in the SA article or anyone else that used the SA article as reference, did they report that .... "Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already .....". Those are your words and the way YOU saw it. Not the way SA or anyone else saw it and reported it. SA only stated that Apple market share "dipped "23% in the 1st Q of 2021, QoQ. And they know most of the "dip" was to be expected after reporting  Apple "blowout" Holiday 4th Q 2020, when Apple had over 40% marketshare of 5G phones (globally). More 5G marketshare than OPPO, Vivo, Samsung and Xiaomi, combined. The 5G marketshare Apple "stole" from those phone makers in 4th Q, returned to them in the 1st, which accounted for their "rapid growth" and Apple rapid decline (in the 5G market), QoQ. And more marketshare will return to them in the 2nd Q 2021.  

    This AI article only reported Apple marketshare was down 23%, QoQ. Not "massively down" or "already down".  
    The devil once again.

    You will notice I am not quoting Strategy Analytics anywhere. Yes, massive losses is my reading. If you personally see a 23% QoQ fall as a 'dip', you are free to do so. Don't mind me but don't try to tell me that nobody else saw that 23% as massive. You can't know but I think it's reasonable to see a 23% QoQ loss as anything but a 'dip'. 

    When I said 'according to Strategy Analytics' it means 'according to their numbers'. If I hadn't said that, someone would have popped their head up and said the numbers may as well be pie in the sky which of course would be a fair point, so I qualified the numbers. 

    What I didn't do is quote their comments, I drew your attention to the linked article which you have clearly bothered to read now.

    The real point here is relevant to Q1 2021 and IMO you were wrong to say I was wrong in my comment on 5G handsets.

    Instead of admitting your error or just saying nothing, now you are wrapping your position up in Q4 2020 and Q2 2021 data and completely ignoring the Q1 2021 numbers.

    If I said the devil was in the details, it was for a reason. 
    Of for fucks sake,

    Apple had a "massive" blowout first quarter in 2020, ended up with about 25% of all 5G sales for that year, which is pretty amazing considering the iPhone 11 was only available for a little over a single quarter,  then had another "massive" blowout first quarter in 2021, ended up with 40% 5G marketshare, is now at 30% 5G marketshare, so a 23% 5G marketshare drop for its Q2 FY2021 isn't really indicative of anything other than Apple has sold 5G well into its base.

    That to me looks like Apple has been leading 5G sales, and the others now look "very late", and are just now catching up. Such is your fixation on unit marketshare, and specifically, 5G share, because Apple YOY iPhone sales are up from $29B in Q2 2020 to $48B in Q2 2021.

    Will you also complain if Apple ships 230 to 240 units at an ASP of $875, some $200B in iPhone revenue for FY 2021, because that is actually quite possible. It also makes the competition look threadbare...
    You are not tackling what is on the table here. Re-read the comments. 
  • Reply 14 of 35
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,253member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Well, at least we now know you are not the Devil. Your post is lacking in a lot of detail. 

    Every report I've seen, Apple is the "5G" leader in 1st Q 2021 market share with about 40% of the 5G units sold, (in the 1st Q of 2021). 

    You may be surprise (shock even), to know that there is usually a massive loss of sales (with nearly every company dealing in retail) every 1st Q of the year, when comparing QoQ. That's because the 1st Q of the year comes after the Holiday Q of the last year. The Holiday Q is usually the Q with the highest sales of the year for any company dealing in retail. This is why investors compare year to year Q. Apple is up 100% in units sold when compared to 1st Q of 2020. But it's down 23% when compared to 4th Q of 2020. Which is expected coming off a good Holiday Q.  No real bad news there. Nor a surprise for the knowledgable investors. And hold on to your hat, this might come as even a bigger shock to you. Apple's 2nd Q of the year is usually their slowest Q. So Apple might even report more loses QoQ. But still maintain a sizable gain when comparing YoY Q.  (Even that might not be a fair comparison as in the 2nd Q of 2020, we were in the middle of the pandemic and sales were exceptionally down for everyone, everywhere.)

    Then you got it wrong about claiming that  Apple was not the 5G handset leader in Q1 2021. Apple for sure was the 5G leader in marketshare in Q1 of 2021. What Apple wasn't, was the leader in all smartphones sold. As usual, that belongs to Samsung with 22%. Apple was second with 17%. In case you are unaware (and might even be shocked), not all smartphones sold in 1st Q of 2021 were 5G. (I'm pretty sure Apple discontinued all non 5G iPhones by the end of 2020, but not sure. Maybe they still sold old inventory in 1st Q)      

    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/
    The devil is in the details of the link posted in the article! Did you read it? 

    Yes. I'm fully aware of the cyclical nature of pent up demand, blow out quarter and subsequent reality check in later quarters and why it makes tiny snapshots meaningless! 

    I didn't spell it out because I thought it was stating the obvious. I mention the same points almost every single year when someone like Beats chimes in with a post just like the one I was replying to here. So, in the context of my reply, QoQ statements are very relevant because that is a key metric used in the linked article. 

    This article refers to Strategy Analytics. My comment referred to Strategy Analytics. 

    You are right. I am not the devil but you are wrong in your 5G claims all the same. 

    The devil is in realising that OPPO and VIVO belong to the same company (BBK Electronics Corporation) . Let's not even throw in OnePlus or Realme, right? 
    But no where in the SA article or anyone else that used the SA article as reference, did they report that .... "Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already .....". Those are your words and the way YOU saw it. Not the way SA or anyone else saw it and reported it. SA only stated that Apple market share "dipped "23% in the 1st Q of 2021, QoQ. And they know most of the "dip" was to be expected after reporting  Apple "blowout" Holiday 4th Q 2020, when Apple had over 40% marketshare of 5G phones (globally). More 5G marketshare than OPPO, Vivo, Samsung and Xiaomi, combined. The 5G marketshare Apple "stole" from those phone makers in 4th Q, returned to them in the 1st, which accounted for their "rapid growth" and Apple rapid decline (in the 5G market), QoQ. And more marketshare will return to them in the 2nd Q 2021.  

    This AI article only reported Apple marketshare was down 23%, QoQ. Not "massively down" or "already down".  
    The devil once again.

    You will notice I am not quoting Strategy Analytics anywhere. Yes, massive losses is my reading. If you personally see a 23% QoQ fall as a 'dip', you are free to do so. Don't mind me but don't try to tell me that nobody else saw that 23% as massive. You can't know but I think it's reasonable to see a 23% QoQ loss as anything but a 'dip'. 

    When I said 'according to Strategy Analytics' it means 'according to their numbers'. If I hadn't said that, someone would have popped their head up and said the numbers may as well be pie in the sky which of course would be a fair point, so I qualified the numbers. 

    What I didn't do is quote their comments, I drew your attention to the linked article which you have clearly bothered to read now.

    The real point here is relevant to Q1 2021 and IMO you were wrong to say I was wrong in my comment on 5G handsets.

    Instead of admitting your error or just saying nothing, now you are wrapping your position up in Q4 2020 and Q2 2021 data and completely ignoring the Q1 2021 numbers.

    If I said the devil was in the details, it was for a reason. 
    Of for fucks sake,

    Apple had a "massive" blowout first quarter in 2020, ended up with about 25% of all 5G sales for that year, which is pretty amazing considering the iPhone 11 was only available for a little over a single quarter,  then had another "massive" blowout first quarter in 2021, ended up with 40% 5G marketshare, is now at 30% 5G marketshare, so a 23% 5G marketshare drop for its Q2 FY2021 isn't really indicative of anything other than Apple has sold 5G well into its base.

    That to me looks like Apple has been leading 5G sales, and the others now look "very late", and are just now catching up. Such is your fixation on unit marketshare, and specifically, 5G share, because Apple YOY iPhone sales are up from $29B in Q2 2020 to $48B in Q2 2021.

    Will you also complain if Apple ships 230 to 240 units at an ASP of $875, some $200B in iPhone revenue for FY 2021, because that is actually quite possible. It also makes the competition look threadbare...
    You are not tackling what is on the table here. Re-read the comments. 
    No, what you are doing, is moving the goalposts to make it look like iPhone sales are off, which they aren't. As I stated, Apple actually launched late and captured "massive" 5G marketshare, and now, those also ran's are finally seeing some decent 5G sales. Meanwhile, Apple is making "massive" revenue off of the iPhone.

    Funny, but you stated in the past that Apple was "late" to the 5G market, as if that was going to have negative consequences; it didn't, and it isn't. 
    edited June 17 Beatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 35
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,253member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Nope, not late. I have a 5G iPhone and give two shits about that feature — I couldn’t even use it for most the time I’ve had it due AT&T wanted me to upgrade my plan to use it. I switched to Mint because it’s a much better carrier ($15/mo) and have 5G now, but it hasn’t changed my life or even my use cases whatsoever. No change. 

    I know having 5G earlier was what you laid you head to sleep on for so long, but it’s totally meaningless for most people right now. Yawn.
    Yes. Late. There is no questioning that. It's a material fact.

    The importance or not that you personally put onto that is something else.

    I, again, personally, think it was part of a huge strategic error. One which saw Intel fail to deliver on time and required Apple to totally re-think its situation with Qualcomm.

    You are free to think otherwise but Apple was late to 5G.
    Apple suffered absolutely no negative consequences, so no, it wasn't "a huge strategic error". Certainly, there was risk involved in meeting the fall 2020 deadline, but we already know how that worked out.

    Would you admit that Apple was the best selling 5G manufacturer for the better part of a year, or are you going go with, but, but, Vivo, and Oppo have the same parent company so they should be counted together. I personally don't care how you do it, but you then have to consider that Apple dominates revenue, ASP, and Margin, because those are all related to profitability, and Apple is untouchable.
    Beatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 35
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,808member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Well, at least we now know you are not the Devil. Your post is lacking in a lot of detail. 

    Every report I've seen, Apple is the "5G" leader in 1st Q 2021 market share with about 40% of the 5G units sold, (in the 1st Q of 2021). 

    You may be surprise (shock even), to know that there is usually a massive loss of sales (with nearly every company dealing in retail) every 1st Q of the year, when comparing QoQ. That's because the 1st Q of the year comes after the Holiday Q of the last year. The Holiday Q is usually the Q with the highest sales of the year for any company dealing in retail. This is why investors compare year to year Q. Apple is up 100% in units sold when compared to 1st Q of 2020. But it's down 23% when compared to 4th Q of 2020. Which is expected coming off a good Holiday Q.  No real bad news there. Nor a surprise for the knowledgable investors. And hold on to your hat, this might come as even a bigger shock to you. Apple's 2nd Q of the year is usually their slowest Q. So Apple might even report more loses QoQ. But still maintain a sizable gain when comparing YoY Q.  (Even that might not be a fair comparison as in the 2nd Q of 2020, we were in the middle of the pandemic and sales were exceptionally down for everyone, everywhere.)

    Then you got it wrong about claiming that  Apple was not the 5G handset leader in Q1 2021. Apple for sure was the 5G leader in marketshare in Q1 of 2021. What Apple wasn't, was the leader in all smartphones sold. As usual, that belongs to Samsung with 22%. Apple was second with 17%. In case you are unaware (and might even be shocked), not all smartphones sold in 1st Q of 2021 were 5G. (I'm pretty sure Apple discontinued all non 5G iPhones by the end of 2020, but not sure. Maybe they still sold old inventory in 1st Q)      

    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/
    The devil is in the details of the link posted in the article! Did you read it? 

    Yes. I'm fully aware of the cyclical nature of pent up demand, blow out quarter and subsequent reality check in later quarters and why it makes tiny snapshots meaningless! 

    I didn't spell it out because I thought it was stating the obvious. I mention the same points almost every single year when someone like Beats chimes in with a post just like the one I was replying to here. So, in the context of my reply, QoQ statements are very relevant because that is a key metric used in the linked article. 

    This article refers to Strategy Analytics. My comment referred to Strategy Analytics. 

    You are right. I am not the devil but you are wrong in your 5G claims all the same. 

    The devil is in realising that OPPO and VIVO belong to the same company (BBK Electronics Corporation) . Let's not even throw in OnePlus or Realme, right? 
    But no where in the SA article or anyone else that used the SA article as reference, did they report that .... "Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already .....". Those are your words and the way YOU saw it. Not the way SA or anyone else saw it and reported it. SA only stated that Apple market share "dipped "23% in the 1st Q of 2021, QoQ. And they know most of the "dip" was to be expected after reporting  Apple "blowout" Holiday 4th Q 2020, when Apple had over 40% marketshare of 5G phones (globally). More 5G marketshare than OPPO, Vivo, Samsung and Xiaomi, combined. The 5G marketshare Apple "stole" from those phone makers in 4th Q, returned to them in the 1st, which accounted for their "rapid growth" and Apple rapid decline (in the 5G market), QoQ. And more marketshare will return to them in the 2nd Q 2021.  

    This AI article only reported Apple marketshare was down 23%, QoQ. Not "massively down" or "already down".  
    The devil once again.

    You will notice I am not quoting Strategy Analytics anywhere. Yes, massive losses is my reading. If you personally see a 23% QoQ fall as a 'dip', you are free to do so. Don't mind me but don't try to tell me that nobody else saw that 23% as massive. You can't know but I think it's reasonable to see a 23% QoQ loss as anything but a 'dip'. 

    When I said 'according to Strategy Analytics' it means 'according to their numbers'. If I hadn't said that, someone would have popped their head up and said the numbers may as well be pie in the sky which of course would be a fair point, so I qualified the numbers. 

    What I didn't do is quote their comments, I drew your attention to the linked article which you have clearly bothered to read now.

    The real point here is relevant to Q1 2021 and IMO you were wrong to say I was wrong in my comment on 5G handsets.

    Instead of admitting your error or just saying nothing, now you are wrapping your position up in Q4 2020 and Q2 2021 data and completely ignoring the Q1 2021 numbers.

    If I said the devil was in the details, it was for a reason. 
    Of for fucks sake,

    Apple had a "massive" blowout first quarter in 2020, ended up with about 25% of all 5G sales for that year, which is pretty amazing considering the iPhone 11 was only available for a little over a single quarter,  then had another "massive" blowout first quarter in 2021, ended up with 40% 5G marketshare, is now at 30% 5G marketshare, so a 23% 5G marketshare drop for its Q2 FY2021 isn't really indicative of anything other than Apple has sold 5G well into its base.

    That to me looks like Apple has been leading 5G sales, and the others now look "very late", and are just now catching up. Such is your fixation on unit marketshare, and specifically, 5G share, because Apple YOY iPhone sales are up from $29B in Q2 2020 to $48B in Q2 2021.

    Will you also complain if Apple ships 230 to 240 units at an ASP of $875, some $200B in iPhone revenue for FY 2021, because that is actually quite possible. It also makes the competition look threadbare...
    You are not tackling what is on the table here. Re-read the comments. 
    No, what you are doing, is moving the goalposts to make it look like iPhone sales are off, which they aren't. As I stated, Apple actually launched late and captured "massive" 5G marketshare, and now, those also ran's are finally seeing some decent 5G sales. Meanwhile, Apple is making "massive" revenue off of the iPhone.

    Funny, but you stated in the past that Apple was "late" to the 5G market, as if that was going to have negative consequences; it didn't, and it isn't. 
    No. I am responding directly to the claim that I was wrong in what I said.

    Let me ask you directly. Was I incorrect?

    The goalposts have not moved. 
  • Reply 17 of 35
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,808member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Nope, not late. I have a 5G iPhone and give two shits about that feature — I couldn’t even use it for most the time I’ve had it due AT&T wanted me to upgrade my plan to use it. I switched to Mint because it’s a much better carrier ($15/mo) and have 5G now, but it hasn’t changed my life or even my use cases whatsoever. No change. 

    I know having 5G earlier was what you laid you head to sleep on for so long, but it’s totally meaningless for most people right now. Yawn.
    Yes. Late. There is no questioning that. It's a material fact.

    The importance or not that you personally put onto that is something else.

    I, again, personally, think it was part of a huge strategic error. One which saw Intel fail to deliver on time and required Apple to totally re-think its situation with Qualcomm.

    You are free to think otherwise but Apple was late to 5G.
    Apple suffered absolutely no negative consequences, so no, it wasn't "a huge strategic error". Certainly, there was risk involved in meeting the fall 2020 deadline, but we already know how that worked out.

    Would you admit that Apple was the best selling 5G manufacturer for the better part of a year, or are you going go with, but, but, Vivo, and Oppo have the same parent company so they should be counted together. I personally don't care how you do it, but you then have to consider that Apple dominates revenue, ASP, and Margin, because those are all related to profitability, and Apple is untouchable.
    How can you know Apple suffered no negative consequences? Only Apple and Qualcomm can answer that. 

    But on a purely technical and flagship level there have been consequences. Notable consequences. Apple has been not been able to increase screen refresh rates. It hasn't been able to do more with battery life. It hasn't been able to perfect it 5G antenna designs. All probably because of having an old X55 non-SoC integrated modem as its only option. 

    The rest is opinion. My opinion is that Apple was taking a years long global court battle to its ultimate consequences but found itself in a strategic 5G dilemma and had to take some huge decisions. It was looking at probably a few years without 5G. 

    What would a few years without 5G have done to Apple's sales, revenue and ASP? 

    edited June 17
  • Reply 18 of 35
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,253member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Nope, not late. I have a 5G iPhone and give two shits about that feature — I couldn’t even use it for most the time I’ve had it due AT&T wanted me to upgrade my plan to use it. I switched to Mint because it’s a much better carrier ($15/mo) and have 5G now, but it hasn’t changed my life or even my use cases whatsoever. No change. 

    I know having 5G earlier was what you laid you head to sleep on for so long, but it’s totally meaningless for most people right now. Yawn.
    Yes. Late. There is no questioning that. It's a material fact.

    The importance or not that you personally put onto that is something else.

    I, again, personally, think it was part of a huge strategic error. One which saw Intel fail to deliver on time and required Apple to totally re-think its situation with Qualcomm.

    You are free to think otherwise but Apple was late to 5G.
    Apple suffered absolutely no negative consequences, so no, it wasn't "a huge strategic error". Certainly, there was risk involved in meeting the fall 2020 deadline, but we already know how that worked out.

    Would you admit that Apple was the best selling 5G manufacturer for the better part of a year, or are you going go with, but, but, Vivo, and Oppo have the same parent company so they should be counted together. I personally don't care how you do it, but you then have to consider that Apple dominates revenue, ASP, and Margin, because those are all related to profitability, and Apple is untouchable.
    How can you know Apple suffered no negative consequences? Only Apple and Qualcomm can answer that. 

    The rest is opinion. My opinion is that Apple was taking a years long global court battle to its ultimate consequences but found itself in a strategic 5G dilemma and had to take some huge decisions. It was looking at probably a few years without 5G. 


    Did Apple suffer sales losses by delivering a year later than the first Android models did? No.

    There is absolutely no evidence of that, and there was no alternate universe where Apple didn't have 5G in 2020.

    More to the point, how fucked up is the Android OEM world that Apple can start delivering 5G models a year late, and end up peaking at 40% marketshare 9 months later. Perhaps you should reflect on that. 

    Here's what happens in an alternate universe when Titanic doesn't hit an iceberg, and therefore doesn't sink;

    No 11 Oscar wins for the film that isn't made.

    edited June 17 Beatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 35
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,253member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 
    Well, at least we now know you are not the Devil. Your post is lacking in a lot of detail. 

    Every report I've seen, Apple is the "5G" leader in 1st Q 2021 market share with about 40% of the 5G units sold, (in the 1st Q of 2021). 

    You may be surprise (shock even), to know that there is usually a massive loss of sales (with nearly every company dealing in retail) every 1st Q of the year, when comparing QoQ. That's because the 1st Q of the year comes after the Holiday Q of the last year. The Holiday Q is usually the Q with the highest sales of the year for any company dealing in retail. This is why investors compare year to year Q. Apple is up 100% in units sold when compared to 1st Q of 2020. But it's down 23% when compared to 4th Q of 2020. Which is expected coming off a good Holiday Q.  No real bad news there. Nor a surprise for the knowledgable investors. And hold on to your hat, this might come as even a bigger shock to you. Apple's 2nd Q of the year is usually their slowest Q. So Apple might even report more loses QoQ. But still maintain a sizable gain when comparing YoY Q.  (Even that might not be a fair comparison as in the 2nd Q of 2020, we were in the middle of the pandemic and sales were exceptionally down for everyone, everywhere.)

    Then you got it wrong about claiming that  Apple was not the 5G handset leader in Q1 2021. Apple for sure was the 5G leader in marketshare in Q1 of 2021. What Apple wasn't, was the leader in all smartphones sold. As usual, that belongs to Samsung with 22%. Apple was second with 17%. In case you are unaware (and might even be shocked), not all smartphones sold in 1st Q of 2021 were 5G. (I'm pretty sure Apple discontinued all non 5G iPhones by the end of 2020, but not sure. Maybe they still sold old inventory in 1st Q)      

    https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share/
    The devil is in the details of the link posted in the article! Did you read it? 

    Yes. I'm fully aware of the cyclical nature of pent up demand, blow out quarter and subsequent reality check in later quarters and why it makes tiny snapshots meaningless! 

    I didn't spell it out because I thought it was stating the obvious. I mention the same points almost every single year when someone like Beats chimes in with a post just like the one I was replying to here. So, in the context of my reply, QoQ statements are very relevant because that is a key metric used in the linked article. 

    This article refers to Strategy Analytics. My comment referred to Strategy Analytics. 

    You are right. I am not the devil but you are wrong in your 5G claims all the same. 

    The devil is in realising that OPPO and VIVO belong to the same company (BBK Electronics Corporation) . Let's not even throw in OnePlus or Realme, right? 
    But no where in the SA article or anyone else that used the SA article as reference, did they report that .... "Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already .....". Those are your words and the way YOU saw it. Not the way SA or anyone else saw it and reported it. SA only stated that Apple market share "dipped "23% in the 1st Q of 2021, QoQ. And they know most of the "dip" was to be expected after reporting  Apple "blowout" Holiday 4th Q 2020, when Apple had over 40% marketshare of 5G phones (globally). More 5G marketshare than OPPO, Vivo, Samsung and Xiaomi, combined. The 5G marketshare Apple "stole" from those phone makers in 4th Q, returned to them in the 1st, which accounted for their "rapid growth" and Apple rapid decline (in the 5G market), QoQ. And more marketshare will return to them in the 2nd Q 2021.  

    This AI article only reported Apple marketshare was down 23%, QoQ. Not "massively down" or "already down".  
    The devil once again.

    You will notice I am not quoting Strategy Analytics anywhere. Yes, massive losses is my reading. If you personally see a 23% QoQ fall as a 'dip', you are free to do so. Don't mind me but don't try to tell me that nobody else saw that 23% as massive. You can't know but I think it's reasonable to see a 23% QoQ loss as anything but a 'dip'. 

    When I said 'according to Strategy Analytics' it means 'according to their numbers'. If I hadn't said that, someone would have popped their head up and said the numbers may as well be pie in the sky which of course would be a fair point, so I qualified the numbers. 

    What I didn't do is quote their comments, I drew your attention to the linked article which you have clearly bothered to read now.

    The real point here is relevant to Q1 2021 and IMO you were wrong to say I was wrong in my comment on 5G handsets.

    Instead of admitting your error or just saying nothing, now you are wrapping your position up in Q4 2020 and Q2 2021 data and completely ignoring the Q1 2021 numbers.

    If I said the devil was in the details, it was for a reason. 
    Of for fucks sake,

    Apple had a "massive" blowout first quarter in 2020, ended up with about 25% of all 5G sales for that year, which is pretty amazing considering the iPhone 11 was only available for a little over a single quarter,  then had another "massive" blowout first quarter in 2021, ended up with 40% 5G marketshare, is now at 30% 5G marketshare, so a 23% 5G marketshare drop for its Q2 FY2021 isn't really indicative of anything other than Apple has sold 5G well into its base.

    That to me looks like Apple has been leading 5G sales, and the others now look "very late", and are just now catching up. Such is your fixation on unit marketshare, and specifically, 5G share, because Apple YOY iPhone sales are up from $29B in Q2 2020 to $48B in Q2 2021.

    Will you also complain if Apple ships 230 to 240 units at an ASP of $875, some $200B in iPhone revenue for FY 2021, because that is actually quite possible. It also makes the competition look threadbare...
    You are not tackling what is on the table here. Re-read the comments. 
    No, what you are doing, is moving the goalposts to make it look like iPhone sales are off, which they aren't. As I stated, Apple actually launched late and captured "massive" 5G marketshare, and now, those also ran's are finally seeing some decent 5G sales. Meanwhile, Apple is making "massive" revenue off of the iPhone.

    Funny, but you stated in the past that Apple was "late" to the 5G market, as if that was going to have negative consequences; it didn't, and it isn't. 
    No. I am responding directly to the claim that I was wrong in what I said.

    Let me ask you directly. Was I incorrect?

    The goalposts have not moved. 
    Please illuminate me on what I am missing.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 35
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,408member
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    Wait a minute… 5G “Late” Apple is #1 in market share??  Aaahahahahaha!!!!
    Late? Most definitely!

    Q3 2020 saw Apple with zero in units shipped and of course marketshare.

    Fast forward to Q1 of 2021 and, according to Strategy Analytics, Apple is seeing massive QoQ losses already both in unit shipments and marketshare.

    And you may be surprised (shocked even!) to know that even in Q1 2021, Apple is not the #1 company for 5G handset marketshare or units shipped. The devil is in the details. 

    And all this with Huawei being unable to compete. 

    Haha you were the first to respond and funnily enough you were the first person I thought of when I read the article. You had post after post trashing Apple for not adopting 5G earlier and praising Huawei the king copycat of Apple.

    Apple being “late” took the #1 spot. That tells me they weren’t late but just in time!!

     Huawei came to the party so early they were setting up the speakers and tripping over the cords before anyone arrived. Apple was the special guest, the speaker, the star of the show: JUST IN TIME!
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