Apple attorneys threaten UK market exit if court orders 'unacceptable' patent fees

Jump to First Reply
AppleInsiderAppleInsider
Posted:
in iPhone
Apple's lawyers have warned the iPhone maker could exit the UK if a court orders it to pay "commercially unacceptable" fees to patent company Optis Cellular over alleged infringement of 3G and 4G patents.




Apple is currently involved in a lawsuit with Optis in the United Kingdom, with Apple refusing to pay the firm license fees for patents Optis claims it used in the iPhone and other technologies. In June, a High Court judge ruled that Apple had infringed two of the patents, and therefore Apple should pay fees.

The value of the fees has yet to be determined, but This Is Money writes it could be a legal fight worth up to 5 billion pounds ($7 billion) to Apple.

In 2020, the UK Supreme Court ruled a UK court can set the rate for patent payments worldwide, despite the court only being able to consider the infringement of UK patents. A trial in 2022 will determine how much Apple will have to pay.

As for how much it could be, Mr Justice Meade said during a hearing in January that Apple "might be disappointed" by the set rate. Meade offered it was unlikely that Apple would perform a drastic action, such as exiting the UK market, if the fees are too high, with "no evidence it is even remotely possible" that Apple would consider it.

Marie Demetriou, Apple's lawyer, argued back "I'm not sure that is right. Apple's position is it should indeed be able to reflect on the terms and decide whether commercially it is right to accept them or to leave the UK market. There may be terms that are set by the court which are just commercially unacceptable."

A court case later in July will determine whether Apple will have to make a legally binding pledge to abide by judge-set payout rates in the July 2022 trial. If it refuses, Apple has the possibility of being banned from selling iPhones in the country.

This is not the only lawsuit involving Optis that Apple is contending with. In August 2020, a Texas federal jury ruled Apple willfully infringed on 4G LTE patents owned by PanOptis and related companies, including Optis, and that it had to pay $506.2 million.

In April 2021, a federal judge allowed a retrial to take place, due to there being "serious doubt" about the verdict.

Keep up with everything Apple in the weekly AppleInsider Podcast -- and get a fast news update from AppleInsider Daily. Just say, "Hey, Siri," to your HomePod mini and ask for these podcasts, and our latest HomeKit Insider episode too.If you want an ad-free main AppleInsider Podcast experience, you can support the AppleInsider podcast by subscribing for $5 per month through Apple's Podcasts app, or via Patreon if you prefer any other podcast player.
«13456

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 108
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    Apple leaving the UK market... who are they trying to fool...
    ionicleseanjelijahgchemengin1
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 2 of 108
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,236member
    Leaving the UK market is what would be commercially unacceptable.

    Making threats of this kind does Apple no favours, it simply makes them sound as if they think can pull strings, sway decisions and set 'punishments'. Could turn into a PR nightmare if it eventually gets spun negatively.

    Extra territorial reach is in itself a double edged sword. The US has been putting 'sanctions' on countries and companies and expecting sovereign nations to fall into line on enforcing them. 

    Sometimes things can swing in the other direction. If they lose the fight, the best thing they can do is take it to the last appeal and then pay up if they lose. 


    edited July 2021
    Beatskillroyelijahgmuthuk_vanalingamionicleseanjFileMakerFellerdysamoriachemengin1
     7Likes 0Dislikes 2Informatives
  • Reply 3 of 108
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,927member
    The may have to leave the UK market to set an example and cool the current wave of attacks. What would be the cost of not leaving?
    pscooter63genovelledewmekillroyNoFliesOnMeqwerty52JanNLrcfaRayz2016GeorgeBMac
     16Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 4 of 108
    omar moralesomar morales Posts: 60member
    If the UK market becomes too toxic then leaving it may not be a bad thing. Apple is a for profit business and if the market condition isn’t profitable whats the point of been on it? Besides is not like the UK market is as big as the EU market.
    edited July 2021
    pscooter63genovelleqwerty52rcfaapplguybshankkillroywatto_cobrajony0
     9Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 5 of 108
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,695member
    mcdave said:
    The may have to leave the UK market to set an example and cool the current wave of attacks. What would be the cost of not leaving?
    At some point a stand needs to be made, the UK being a small country, is just the place….
    mcdavercfaGeorgeBMacmwhitebshankwatto_cobrajony0
     7Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 6 of 108
    mr lizardmr lizard Posts: 354member
    Let’s not get carried away folks. This was a single lawyer, and hardly one who reports directly to Apple’s SVP for Legal Counsel, responding to a quip from a judge that it’s unlikely Apple will leave the UK market if forced to pay this royalty. Of course their lawyer is going to argue the opposite. 

    This wasn’t some big showdown nor was it a credible threat to leave any markets. 
    elijahgthtJWSCseanjFileMakerFellerdysamoriawatto_cobrajony0
     8Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 7 of 108
    Beatsbeats Posts: 3,073member
    mcdave said:
    The may have to leave the UK market to set an example and cool the current wave of attacks. What would be the cost of not leaving?

    I don’t know. Everyone on forums seem to agree that Apple should leave every country that attacks them. Seems like a good plan!
    /s

    The cost of not leaving? Not sure what you mean but leaving means it leaves the market open for knockoffs and patent thieves like Huawei and Samsung to take over the market Apple spend decades and billions of dollars inventing.
    killroyelijahgseanj
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 8 of 108
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,481member
    Beats said:
    mcdave said:
    The may have to leave the UK market to set an example and cool the current wave of attacks. What would be the cost of not leaving?

    I don’t know. Everyone on forums seem to agree that Apple should leave every country that attacks them. Seems like a good plan!
    /s

    The cost of not leaving? Not sure what you mean but leaving means it leaves the market open for knockoffs and patent thieves like Huawei and Samsung to take over the market Apple spend decades and billions of dollars inventing.
    Paying 7 Billion on a UK only issued patent opens the flood gates for sure. And they should consider leaving. Many of these trolls go after the other large fish once they get a bite, so Apple leaving will create a new direction that others will likely follow. So, when they come for Samsung, they will pull their phones too. 

    They public will then come for those allowing them to be locked out of desired markets. 
    killroyDogpersonbshankspock1234am8449watto_cobrajony0
     7Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 9 of 108
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,118member
    If Apple invests that 7 billion dollars elsewhere that would bring much more profits than selling iPhones in the good old UK.
    edited July 2021
    dewmeradarthekatkillroyraybodee_deejony0
     6Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 10 of 108
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    If the judgement is against them then that will set precedent for patent suit elsewhere so leaving the UK, should it ever happen (I doubt it), may not help them that much anyway.  

    Not really sure what the lawyer was trying to achieve with this, it may well backfire if the judge takes it as an arrogant threat.
    muthuk_vanalingamFileMakerFeller
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 11 of 108
    seanjseanj Posts: 324member
    mcdave said:
    The may have to leave the UK market to set an example and cool the current wave of attacks. What would be the cost of not leaving?
    Presumably you think they should leave the Texas market too? Absolutely stupid comment. As if legal courts pay attention to childish threats like this.

    The UK is way too profitable for Apple to even consider doing this.
    elijahg
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 12 of 108
    seanjseanj Posts: 324member
    danox said:
    mcdave said:
    The may have to leave the UK market to set an example and cool the current wave of attacks. What would be the cost of not leaving?
    At some point a stand needs to be made, the UK being a small country, is just the place….
    Clearly clueless about finance if you think the U.K. is small, it’s a G7 member.
    elijahgmuthuk_vanalingamionicleFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
     5Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 13 of 108
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,938moderator
    Consumers will pay the toll in raised prices.  Let the UK shoot themselves in the foot.  
    aderutterkillroyqwerty52GeorgeBMacStrangeDaysfotoformatbshankwatto_cobrajony0
     9Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 14 of 108
    SoundJudgmentsoundjudgment Posts: 187member
    They will be leaving the State of Texas, next.
    GeorgeBMacseanjwatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 15 of 108
    The_New_tontonthe_new_tonton Posts: 39member
    China commits genocide and breaks international agreements left and right and Apple won’t even move production like Samsung did.

    Apple won’t do Jack.
    elijahgseanjspock1234
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 16 of 108
    aderutteraderutter Posts: 635member
    Yep, us UK customers will simply pay a higher price for an iPhone. 
    rayboqwerty52StrangeDaysapplguybshankwatto_cobra
     6Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 17 of 108
    aderutteraderutter Posts: 635member
    Even if it means importing from the USA or EU.
    GeorgeBMacStrangeDaysbshankwatto_cobra
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 18 of 108
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    radarthekat said:
    Consumers will pay the toll in raised prices.  Let the UK shoot themselves in the foot.  
    aderutter said:
    Yep, us UK customers will simply pay a higher price for an iPhone. 
    Did you miss the part where this judgement is for a global patent rate?
    elijahgmuthuk_vanalingamseanjFileMakerFeller
     3Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 19 of 108
    killroykillroy Posts: 294member
    If the UK market becomes too toxic then leaving it may not be a bad thing. Apple is a for profit business and if the market condition isn’t profitable whats the point of been on it? Besides is not like the UK market is as big as the EU market.

    The EU market is also getting toxic.
    edited July 2021
    ioniclewatto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 20 of 108
    killroykillroy Posts: 294member
    Going to their web site, http://panoptis.com/portfolios/, ; you would you would think that no company can make any cell phone without their say so.

    spock1234watto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
Sign In or Register to comment.