I understand that the US has lost its manufacturing competitive edge long ago, but that doesn't man it can't make the attempt anymore.
Apple is in a position to actually make things happen. Apple has to do more to get away from China. This also includes getting away from China-owned companies in other countries like Vietnam which are used to skirt around the restrictions.
The U.S. is not a cheap place to build stuff, even if it means taking smaller steps and building the factories in Canada or Mexico - countries already building our cars - then that would be a good first step. Anything to give the middle-finger to the CCP.
China's response is also hypocritical. I'd bet money that if the Apple-car is successful here, China will require that Apple build its car in China in order to sell to the Chinese market. It already requires that of many companies, but when we demand it - China says "no"? Screw them.
That's just a rehash of the "build/buy American" movement that rose and failed in the 80's and 90's as Japan was eating our lunch -- and that Trump tried to resurrect during his regime. Japan & China didn't take our manufacturing because they did it cheaper. They built stuff better, faster and cheaper. Toyota & Honda set the gold standard for quality. Apple has been clear that they do not manufacturer in China because its cheaper.
Aside from the fact that it makes zero difference to the U.S. if a car or phone is built in China or in Mexico, if we want to compete with either, we need to become more competitive. The problem is not with China, Vietnam, Japan or Mexico. They didn't take it from us. We gave it away.
From the financial point of view, the force is the value of the dollar. After WWII US becomes the sole power of the world. It needs a credible dollar to keep economy engine running. No debt and no inflation and backed by the gold. Unfortunately, US fought Vietnam war by itself. The war created big financial drain of US budget. Nixon decoupled dollar with gold. Gold prices skyrocketed. OPEC felt it is selling oil too cheaply and lauched an oil embargo. These factors cause inflation to go up and out of control. Carter was not able to fight inflation. President Reagan advocated free economy and successfully broke the labor union grip on US companies. In the meantime, Reagon spent lavishly on military budgets and causing deficit to rise. Meanwhile, US and China established diplomatic relations. This allowed US companies find lots of cheap labor to make better profit. Inflation pressure gradually receded in the late Reagon years. I could go on and on with what Bush, Clinton did later. It looks everything proceeded by the invisible hand of money. The question is what US should do to insure the continued prosperity of American people.
"During the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, Arab members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) imposed an embargo against the United States in retaliation for the U.S. decision to re-supply the Israeli military and to gain leverage in the post-war peace negotiations."
So much for your education in the PRC.
Of note, China still doesn't have the GDP of the U.S., won't have it under the best of conditions for another decade, not even at four times the population of the U.S. China's population is aging, economic growth is hitting the S curve, and China is running into "the middle income trap" and may not "get rich before it grows old", even with the allowance of more children.
"Xi Jinping has become the ultimate authority on business operations and politics in China. This has led to concerns among companies and states dealing with China, concerns that Beijing’s lack of transparency with regards to the true extent of the Covid-19 outbreak have only augmented. Investors active across the country have therefore increasingly been looking for alternatives.
An early mover was South Korean conglomerate Lotte, which moved its supply chain subtly and imperceptibly out of China after being forcefully sanctioned by the Beijing government as the corporation sold a piece of land to the South Korean government, which was eventually used by the US to counter threats from North Korea.
Samsung started downsizing its manufacturing units in Shenzhen and Tianjin and also began shifting production to Vietnam because of the volatility of the Chinese government and tariffs.
Meanwhile, its market share in the Chinese market has shrunk because of competition from domestic rivals. This shift that started with Lotte and Samsung has recently accelerated with the Covid-19 crisis and Japan and China’s conflictual attitude. However, it’s not only the Japanese and the Americans who are leaving mainland China and setting up shop elsewhere. Chinese business owners are also doing the same.
Fundamentally, the Xi Jinping regime now faces its biggest challenge as the ‘middle-income trap’ looms large in the horizon. This term refers to those countries which have experienced rapid growth and reached the status of middle-income country in a very short period of time, but then fail to catch up with the higher income economies and hence get trapped.
Foreign companies not only contribute to China’s economic growth, but also provide exports and employment. All of these factors are important if China wants to leave the vicious middle-income trap. If foreign companies continue to leave, then new investment may stagnate, which will negatively affect all the factors required for China to ascend to the status of a high-income economy."
The Biden Administration is rebuilding the U.S. Alliances that were damaged under the Trump Administration, and is also building strong military alliances in the Indo-Pacific, including the Quad of Japan, Australia, India, and the U.S.
Time is running out for China, and that is on Xi Jinping for alienating the West.
To blame everything on Xi is false. The real force is economy. There were manny Americans critical of China made products as early as twenty years ago. Then China starts to make more and more money from US. Apple won't become the most valuable company without manufacturing in China. Be thankful to China if you love Apple. Apple almost became bankrupt in 1997.
Merkel is going to be out of office by the end of the year, and I doubt that her replacement will be as friendly to China. I'm thinking that trade agreement is dead.
Apple is already in the process of re-sourcing its supply chain out of China, as are many other Western companies.
When will you understand? The real force is economy.
China's economy isn't as large as the U.S. economy is today, won't be as large until 2032 at best, and it is looking like it never will be larger than the U.S. economy due to the many Western companies that are exiting China.
Sure, China has a huge workforce that is great for assembly of the iPhone, but it is also that case, that many other countries also have workforces that are large enough to also provide assembly (hint; India in the future).
In 2021, the U.S. is first at $22,675,271 T, and China is second at $16,642,318 T, so the U.S. economy is 36% larger.
The current U.S. population is 333 M, and China is 1,445 M so China is 4.34 times larger in population.
China has quite a task ahead to surpass the U.S. economy.
Of course US wins in nominal GDP. A US truck driver earns over $60,000/year. A Chinese driver probably makes less than $10,000/year. lol
What you just stated, is that if the driver in China is paid in dollars, they would make less than $10,000 a year. I agree with that. It is also true that if China's entire economy is valued in dollars, it is less than the entire U.S. economy.
Were it not for China's exports/imports, ie, transactions with the rest of the world, valuation of its economy would matter little, and China is doing everything it can to avoid trade in dollars.
"Despite trillions of dollars in foreign debt and continuous large deficit spending, the United States still holds global trust and confidence in its ability to pay its obligations. For this reason, the U.S. dollar remains the strongest world currency."
China isn't anywhere close to that with its own currency.
And that's the problem. We squandered our industrial empire -- and now we are squandering our hold on having the world's defacto currency by undermining it with massive unconstrained debt and the unconstrained printing of that currency.
In the 60's & 70's we believed our industrial empire could never be challenged much less toppled.
Today we believe the same about our currency -- our last claim to non-military power.
Hubris and delusion are both deadly. And we suffer from both.
And, once again we are destroying ourselves.
FFS,
The U.S. continues to be the strongest economic power in the world, and China is very far from matching us. Militarily, the U.S. continues to have and to enhance alliances with Western Democracies.
The PRC is basically on its own, most recently from its failed "Wolf Warrior Diplomacy", and failing political system led by Xi Jinping, and that isn't the fault of the U.S.
Of course the world is reevaluating its relationship with the PRC, and companies leaving for greener pastures is reasonable and expected.
The country’s paramount leader is turning away from reforms that helped it grow and develop. That will have consequences beyond its borders.
Get a new soapbox.
Ooops! Didn't mean to trigger you into another soap box lecture about China!
But then I didn't -- the post you are reacting to -- that exploded your brain -- never mentioned China in any way.
You need to see somebody about this obsession of yours.
Too funny.
I'm capable of processing multiple posts, from multiple posters, and responding to the context, and in this case, the context is that the U.S. isn't in fact "destroying itself", nor "squandering" its economic lead, nor is China in a position to match the U.S. economy within the next decade, if ever.
Just more of your gaslighting.
Xi Jinping's leadership has certainly awakened the world to the PRC's brand of authoritarianism, and the world is rapidly responding to that, though not to the benefit of the PRC. It is also the case that China is going to have to deal with its "middle income trap", and its aging population, which is likely to prevent China from becoming a wealthy superpower.
Calm down.
Take a deep breath.
It'll be OK -- you're just getting yourself all worked up because somebody somewhere (you don't seem to remember who or where or when) mentioned China...
Your quote:
Aside from the fact that it makes zero difference to the U.S. if a car or phone is built in China or in Mexico, if we want to compete with either, we need to become more competitive. The problem is not with China, Vietnam, Japan or Mexico. They didn't take it from us. We gave it away.
Seems to me, that until the PRC matches our GDP, which may never happen, that it's China that is having to compete with us, not the other way around.
Now would be a good time for you to wander around the "All you can eat CCP propaganda buffet" on the Internet, looking for more straw men.
Nah! That's your MO.
I prefer reality.
Reality is that the U.S. economy is stronger than China's, much stronger.
You seem fixated on stating otherwise, but the "reality" living rent free in your head, is quite flawed.
Meanwhile;
...the EU Parliament has voted for a diplomatic boycott of the 2022 Winter Olympics.
Are you only able to find political opinions? Do you know what Pompeo said "we cheat, we lie,.." Sorry I don't remember the rest because whatever he said is garbage. Same to you!
Uhm, that's politicians making diplomatic policy, and it's quite different than Xi Jinping telling the CCP what to to.
Google search help find the complete quote. And you are very proud of to be part of it.
Mike Pompeo About CIA : We lied, We cheated, We stole
How nice for you to find that, but it doesn't change the rest of the world's response to PRC human rights violations, does it.
"The famine that killed up to 45 million people remains a taboo subject in China 50 years on. Author Yang Jisheng is determined to change that with his book, Tombstone"
Hard for the West to top Mao, and Mao's self announced heir, Xi Jinping.
Wow! You have good collections of the materials. You are pretty familiar of western demonization of CCP. You know that most of these are exaggerations. Why are you so interested in CCP if you are not related to China? Why do you hate China?
Why are you posting here?
We certainly aren't allowed the freedom to post in China, that you have here. Seems unfair, doesn't it, that we aren't allowed to troll web forums in the PRC.
I'm guessing that you are part of the United Front Work Department. Yes?
I suppose,15 million dead is a just a number; but 45 million dead is just horrible, and must be an exaggeration.
Chinese sensibilities are such that the people can never learn the truth about the failures of the CCP.
This is a stupid question. I am a US citizen. I have the right of freedom of speech. Why you can't answer my question?
Why do I hate the CCP? Why do I hate an authoritarian system that doesn't allow freedom of speech?
If you are, as you say. a U.S. Citizen, then you don't need to ask me that question, do you.
The answer is self evident.
Unless you really aren't a U.S. citizen. Your poor grasp of English gives you away, so you weren't born here, which means you would have to be naturalized.
No, it is not freedom of speech. You forgot you tried to deny my freedom of speech. Your logic is the same reason CCP blocked freedom of speech. It is called patriotism.
I couldn't have denied you your freedom of speech if I wanted to, but I certainly have the right to ask why you are posting on this forum, and you certainly have the right not to answer.
More to the point;
I don't believe that you are a U.S. Citizen, and I don't believe that you can convince me that you are. You really don't understand what freedom of speech is, and your story smells like bullshit.
You tried. You don't understand what freedom of speech is. American freedom of speech protects hate speech. This is why you are educated to have hatred in your heart. This is why there are so many massacres in US. The killers all have hatred in their mind that they think they are right. This is the same thinking you have. Read Wikipedia about what US freedom of speech is to educate yourself. If you can't find, i can help you.
Proving that you are not a U.S. Citizen, that you are a liar, that you are a CCP troll, is that what you had in mind?
You have convinced me of that.
So me "hating" on authoritarians of the PRC is what you are concerned about, not my concern for those Chinese minorities, that have their human rights violated by the CCP?
That's the problem I have with authoritarians; they are such hypocrites. You complain to me of my not understanding freedom of speech, then argue that I have hatred in my heart, then accuse me of being a killer in my thinking.
Through all of that, you can't explain to me what freedom of speech is, likely because the idea of freedom of speech is so abhorrent in Chinese culture.
News;
Freedom of speech, also called free speech, means the free and public expression of opinions without censorship, interference and restraint by the government.
I can see how that would scare the bejesus out of the CCP.
Your hate speech is literally an embarrassment to all who love our freedom and democracy (as opposed to those who wave the flag but promote a racist, closed, society based on fear, hate and fascism).
If you hate China because it is not a free, independent democracy as you claim, then you need to live up to those ideals. Or label yourself what you have labelled others: a hypocrite.
He absolutely isn't a U.S. Citizen.
He obviously wasn't born here from his poor English skills. If his parents immigrated, they wouldn't have met the standards for naturalization for at least 5 years, which means that even as a child, he would have been in a U.S. school system and his language skills would be much better than they are shown in his postings.
If he was older, and came to the U.S., he would have had to take a naturalization test, and swear an oath, all of which would have required a knowledge of the U.S. Constitution, and he would have intimate knowledge of what free speech in the U.S. is.
He has no backstory at all of living in the U.S.; even you have a backstory, living in Pittsburgh.
I challenged him on that, he didn't respond, other than to continue haranguing me about my so called "hate speech".
So, what the fuck is the CCP shill doing here, and why are you defending him?
He shouldn't respond -- lend credence -- to your crazed, hate filled allegations.
By your definition, everything that I do is "hate filled', so I might as well restate the obvious; your new best bud is lying about his U.S. citizenship, and you are incredibly naive to have been taken in.
Have a nice day!!
This is the new whataboutism, just accuse any critic of being a hater, no need to engage in further debate! Which is a good thing for these guys, actual debate doesn't suit them, having to back up their claims, source their facts, use reason and civility to get their point across. Nope, the other guys are all crazy and hate-filled! Hate-filled about what? Doesn't matter, it's just hate hate hate!
LOL.... TMay is clearly a China Hater. An obsessive China Hater. Not only does it take only a soft breeze to set off his trigger, but he starts with the hate then fills in the blanks to justify it. And, as soon as he loses one argument he simply moves to some other aspect of his China hatred.
It's a shame really. He sounds like he's a pretty intelligent person. Just blinded by his obsessive hatred.
Sure Georgey, he's the obsessive hate-filled one when practically every third word you type is China, or Trump, or part of some other barely comprehensible rant about the state of the world. Keep telling yourself that enough and you might make it true.
I understand that the US has lost its manufacturing competitive edge long ago, but that doesn't man it can't make the attempt anymore.
Apple is in a position to actually make things happen. Apple has to do more to get away from China. This also includes getting away from China-owned companies in other countries like Vietnam which are used to skirt around the restrictions.
The U.S. is not a cheap place to build stuff, even if it means taking smaller steps and building the factories in Canada or Mexico - countries already building our cars - then that would be a good first step. Anything to give the middle-finger to the CCP.
China's response is also hypocritical. I'd bet money that if the Apple-car is successful here, China will require that Apple build its car in China in order to sell to the Chinese market. It already requires that of many companies, but when we demand it - China says "no"? Screw them.
That's just a rehash of the "build/buy American" movement that rose and failed in the 80's and 90's as Japan was eating our lunch -- and that Trump tried to resurrect during his regime. Japan & China didn't take our manufacturing because they did it cheaper. They built stuff better, faster and cheaper. Toyota & Honda set the gold standard for quality. Apple has been clear that they do not manufacturer in China because its cheaper.
Aside from the fact that it makes zero difference to the U.S. if a car or phone is built in China or in Mexico, if we want to compete with either, we need to become more competitive. The problem is not with China, Vietnam, Japan or Mexico. They didn't take it from us. We gave it away.
From the financial point of view, the force is the value of the dollar. After WWII US becomes the sole power of the world. It needs a credible dollar to keep economy engine running. No debt and no inflation and backed by the gold. Unfortunately, US fought Vietnam war by itself. The war created big financial drain of US budget. Nixon decoupled dollar with gold. Gold prices skyrocketed. OPEC felt it is selling oil too cheaply and lauched an oil embargo. These factors cause inflation to go up and out of control. Carter was not able to fight inflation. President Reagan advocated free economy and successfully broke the labor union grip on US companies. In the meantime, Reagon spent lavishly on military budgets and causing deficit to rise. Meanwhile, US and China established diplomatic relations. This allowed US companies find lots of cheap labor to make better profit. Inflation pressure gradually receded in the late Reagon years. I could go on and on with what Bush, Clinton did later. It looks everything proceeded by the invisible hand of money. The question is what US should do to insure the continued prosperity of American people.
"During the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, Arab members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) imposed an embargo against the United States in retaliation for the U.S. decision to re-supply the Israeli military and to gain leverage in the post-war peace negotiations."
So much for your education in the PRC.
Of note, China still doesn't have the GDP of the U.S., won't have it under the best of conditions for another decade, not even at four times the population of the U.S. China's population is aging, economic growth is hitting the S curve, and China is running into "the middle income trap" and may not "get rich before it grows old", even with the allowance of more children.
"Xi Jinping has become the ultimate authority on business operations and politics in China. This has led to concerns among companies and states dealing with China, concerns that Beijing’s lack of transparency with regards to the true extent of the Covid-19 outbreak have only augmented. Investors active across the country have therefore increasingly been looking for alternatives.
An early mover was South Korean conglomerate Lotte, which moved its supply chain subtly and imperceptibly out of China after being forcefully sanctioned by the Beijing government as the corporation sold a piece of land to the South Korean government, which was eventually used by the US to counter threats from North Korea.
Samsung started downsizing its manufacturing units in Shenzhen and Tianjin and also began shifting production to Vietnam because of the volatility of the Chinese government and tariffs.
Meanwhile, its market share in the Chinese market has shrunk because of competition from domestic rivals. This shift that started with Lotte and Samsung has recently accelerated with the Covid-19 crisis and Japan and China’s conflictual attitude. However, it’s not only the Japanese and the Americans who are leaving mainland China and setting up shop elsewhere. Chinese business owners are also doing the same.
Fundamentally, the Xi Jinping regime now faces its biggest challenge as the ‘middle-income trap’ looms large in the horizon. This term refers to those countries which have experienced rapid growth and reached the status of middle-income country in a very short period of time, but then fail to catch up with the higher income economies and hence get trapped.
Foreign companies not only contribute to China’s economic growth, but also provide exports and employment. All of these factors are important if China wants to leave the vicious middle-income trap. If foreign companies continue to leave, then new investment may stagnate, which will negatively affect all the factors required for China to ascend to the status of a high-income economy."
The Biden Administration is rebuilding the U.S. Alliances that were damaged under the Trump Administration, and is also building strong military alliances in the Indo-Pacific, including the Quad of Japan, Australia, India, and the U.S.
Time is running out for China, and that is on Xi Jinping for alienating the West.
To blame everything on Xi is false. The real force is economy. There were manny Americans critical of China made products as early as twenty years ago. Then China starts to make more and more money from US. Apple won't become the most valuable company without manufacturing in China. Be thankful to China if you love Apple. Apple almost became bankrupt in 1997.
Merkel is going to be out of office by the end of the year, and I doubt that her replacement will be as friendly to China. I'm thinking that trade agreement is dead.
Apple is already in the process of re-sourcing its supply chain out of China, as are many other Western companies.
When will you understand? The real force is economy.
China's economy isn't as large as the U.S. economy is today, won't be as large until 2032 at best, and it is looking like it never will be larger than the U.S. economy due to the many Western companies that are exiting China.
Sure, China has a huge workforce that is great for assembly of the iPhone, but it is also that case, that many other countries also have workforces that are large enough to also provide assembly (hint; India in the future).
In 2021, the U.S. is first at $22,675,271 T, and China is second at $16,642,318 T, so the U.S. economy is 36% larger.
The current U.S. population is 333 M, and China is 1,445 M so China is 4.34 times larger in population.
China has quite a task ahead to surpass the U.S. economy.
Of course US wins in nominal GDP. A US truck driver earns over $60,000/year. A Chinese driver probably makes less than $10,000/year. lol
What you just stated, is that if the driver in China is paid in dollars, they would make less than $10,000 a year. I agree with that. It is also true that if China's entire economy is valued in dollars, it is less than the entire U.S. economy.
Were it not for China's exports/imports, ie, transactions with the rest of the world, valuation of its economy would matter little, and China is doing everything it can to avoid trade in dollars.
"Despite trillions of dollars in foreign debt and continuous large deficit spending, the United States still holds global trust and confidence in its ability to pay its obligations. For this reason, the U.S. dollar remains the strongest world currency."
China isn't anywhere close to that with its own currency.
And that's the problem. We squandered our industrial empire -- and now we are squandering our hold on having the world's defacto currency by undermining it with massive unconstrained debt and the unconstrained printing of that currency.
In the 60's & 70's we believed our industrial empire could never be challenged much less toppled.
Today we believe the same about our currency -- our last claim to non-military power.
Hubris and delusion are both deadly. And we suffer from both.
And, once again we are destroying ourselves.
FFS,
The U.S. continues to be the strongest economic power in the world, and China is very far from matching us. Militarily, the U.S. continues to have and to enhance alliances with Western Democracies.
The PRC is basically on its own, most recently from its failed "Wolf Warrior Diplomacy", and failing political system led by Xi Jinping, and that isn't the fault of the U.S.
Of course the world is reevaluating its relationship with the PRC, and companies leaving for greener pastures is reasonable and expected.
The country’s paramount leader is turning away from reforms that helped it grow and develop. That will have consequences beyond its borders.
Get a new soapbox.
Ooops! Didn't mean to trigger you into another soap box lecture about China!
But then I didn't -- the post you are reacting to -- that exploded your brain -- never mentioned China in any way.
You need to see somebody about this obsession of yours.
Too funny.
I'm capable of processing multiple posts, from multiple posters, and responding to the context, and in this case, the context is that the U.S. isn't in fact "destroying itself", nor "squandering" its economic lead, nor is China in a position to match the U.S. economy within the next decade, if ever.
Just more of your gaslighting.
Xi Jinping's leadership has certainly awakened the world to the PRC's brand of authoritarianism, and the world is rapidly responding to that, though not to the benefit of the PRC. It is also the case that China is going to have to deal with its "middle income trap", and its aging population, which is likely to prevent China from becoming a wealthy superpower.
Calm down.
Take a deep breath.
It'll be OK -- you're just getting yourself all worked up because somebody somewhere (you don't seem to remember who or where or when) mentioned China...
Your quote:
Aside from the fact that it makes zero difference to the U.S. if a car or phone is built in China or in Mexico, if we want to compete with either, we need to become more competitive. The problem is not with China, Vietnam, Japan or Mexico. They didn't take it from us. We gave it away.
Seems to me, that until the PRC matches our GDP, which may never happen, that it's China that is having to compete with us, not the other way around.
Now would be a good time for you to wander around the "All you can eat CCP propaganda buffet" on the Internet, looking for more straw men.
Nah! That's your MO.
I prefer reality.
Reality is that the U.S. economy is stronger than China's, much stronger.
You seem fixated on stating otherwise, but the "reality" living rent free in your head, is quite flawed.
Meanwhile;
...the EU Parliament has voted for a diplomatic boycott of the 2022 Winter Olympics.
Are you only able to find political opinions? Do you know what Pompeo said "we cheat, we lie,.." Sorry I don't remember the rest because whatever he said is garbage. Same to you!
Uhm, that's politicians making diplomatic policy, and it's quite different than Xi Jinping telling the CCP what to to.
Google search help find the complete quote. And you are very proud of to be part of it.
Mike Pompeo About CIA : We lied, We cheated, We stole
How nice for you to find that, but it doesn't change the rest of the world's response to PRC human rights violations, does it.
"The famine that killed up to 45 million people remains a taboo subject in China 50 years on. Author Yang Jisheng is determined to change that with his book, Tombstone"
Hard for the West to top Mao, and Mao's self announced heir, Xi Jinping.
Wow! You have good collections of the materials. You are pretty familiar of western demonization of CCP. You know that most of these are exaggerations. Why are you so interested in CCP if you are not related to China? Why do you hate China?
Why are you posting here?
We certainly aren't allowed the freedom to post in China, that you have here. Seems unfair, doesn't it, that we aren't allowed to troll web forums in the PRC.
I'm guessing that you are part of the United Front Work Department. Yes?
I suppose,15 million dead is a just a number; but 45 million dead is just horrible, and must be an exaggeration.
Chinese sensibilities are such that the people can never learn the truth about the failures of the CCP.
This is a stupid question. I am a US citizen. I have the right of freedom of speech. Why you can't answer my question?
Why do I hate the CCP? Why do I hate an authoritarian system that doesn't allow freedom of speech?
If you are, as you say. a U.S. Citizen, then you don't need to ask me that question, do you.
The answer is self evident.
Unless you really aren't a U.S. citizen. Your poor grasp of English gives you away, so you weren't born here, which means you would have to be naturalized.
No, it is not freedom of speech. You forgot you tried to deny my freedom of speech. Your logic is the same reason CCP blocked freedom of speech. It is called patriotism.
I couldn't have denied you your freedom of speech if I wanted to, but I certainly have the right to ask why you are posting on this forum, and you certainly have the right not to answer.
More to the point;
I don't believe that you are a U.S. Citizen, and I don't believe that you can convince me that you are. You really don't understand what freedom of speech is, and your story smells like bullshit.
You tried. You don't understand what freedom of speech is. American freedom of speech protects hate speech. This is why you are educated to have hatred in your heart. This is why there are so many massacres in US. The killers all have hatred in their mind that they think they are right. This is the same thinking you have. Read Wikipedia about what US freedom of speech is to educate yourself. If you can't find, i can help you.
Proving that you are not a U.S. Citizen, that you are a liar, that you are a CCP troll, is that what you had in mind?
You have convinced me of that.
So me "hating" on authoritarians of the PRC is what you are concerned about, not my concern for those Chinese minorities, that have their human rights violated by the CCP?
That's the problem I have with authoritarians; they are such hypocrites. You complain to me of my not understanding freedom of speech, then argue that I have hatred in my heart, then accuse me of being a killer in my thinking.
Through all of that, you can't explain to me what freedom of speech is, likely because the idea of freedom of speech is so abhorrent in Chinese culture.
News;
Freedom of speech, also called free speech, means the free and public expression of opinions without censorship, interference and restraint by the government.
I can see how that would scare the bejesus out of the CCP.
Your hate speech is literally an embarrassment to all who love our freedom and democracy (as opposed to those who wave the flag but promote a racist, closed, society based on fear, hate and fascism).
If you hate China because it is not a free, independent democracy as you claim, then you need to live up to those ideals. Or label yourself what you have labelled others: a hypocrite.
He absolutely isn't a U.S. Citizen.
He obviously wasn't born here from his poor English skills. If his parents immigrated, they wouldn't have met the standards for naturalization for at least 5 years, which means that even as a child, he would have been in a U.S. school system and his language skills would be much better than they are shown in his postings.
If he was older, and came to the U.S., he would have had to take a naturalization test, and swear an oath, all of which would have required a knowledge of the U.S. Constitution, and he would have intimate knowledge of what free speech in the U.S. is.
He has no backstory at all of living in the U.S.; even you have a backstory, living in Pittsburgh.
I challenged him on that, he didn't respond, other than to continue haranguing me about my so called "hate speech".
So, what the fuck is the CCP shill doing here, and why are you defending him?
He shouldn't respond -- lend credence -- to your crazed, hate filled allegations.
By your definition, everything that I do is "hate filled', so I might as well restate the obvious; your new best bud is lying about his U.S. citizenship, and you are incredibly naive to have been taken in.
Have a nice day!!
This is the new whataboutism, just accuse any critic of being a hater, no need to engage in further debate! Which is a good thing for these guys, actual debate doesn't suit them, having to back up their claims, source their facts, use reason and civility to get their point across. Nope, the other guys are all crazy and hate-filled! Hate-filled about what? Doesn't matter, it's just hate hate hate!
LOL.... TMay is clearly a China Hater. An obsessive China Hater. Not only does it take only a soft breeze to set off his trigger, but he starts with the hate then fills in the blanks to justify it. And, as soon as he loses one argument he simply moves to some other aspect of his China hatred.
It's a shame really. He sounds like he's a pretty intelligent person. Just blinded by his obsessive hatred.
Sure Georgey, he's the obsessive hate-filled one when practically every third word you type is China, or Trump, or part of some other barely comprehensible rant about the state of the world. Keep telling yourself that enough and you might make it true.
D- for effort, you've used that comeback before, and it was shitty even then. If you're going to convince anyone then you're going to have to try a lot harder. Start with the spelling.
I understand that the US has lost its manufacturing competitive edge long ago, but that doesn't man it can't make the attempt anymore.
Apple is in a position to actually make things happen. Apple has to do more to get away from China. This also includes getting away from China-owned companies in other countries like Vietnam which are used to skirt around the restrictions.
The U.S. is not a cheap place to build stuff, even if it means taking smaller steps and building the factories in Canada or Mexico - countries already building our cars - then that would be a good first step. Anything to give the middle-finger to the CCP.
China's response is also hypocritical. I'd bet money that if the Apple-car is successful here, China will require that Apple build its car in China in order to sell to the Chinese market. It already requires that of many companies, but when we demand it - China says "no"? Screw them.
That's just a rehash of the "build/buy American" movement that rose and failed in the 80's and 90's as Japan was eating our lunch -- and that Trump tried to resurrect during his regime. Japan & China didn't take our manufacturing because they did it cheaper. They built stuff better, faster and cheaper. Toyota & Honda set the gold standard for quality. Apple has been clear that they do not manufacturer in China because its cheaper.
Aside from the fact that it makes zero difference to the U.S. if a car or phone is built in China or in Mexico, if we want to compete with either, we need to become more competitive. The problem is not with China, Vietnam, Japan or Mexico. They didn't take it from us. We gave it away.
From the financial point of view, the force is the value of the dollar. After WWII US becomes the sole power of the world. It needs a credible dollar to keep economy engine running. No debt and no inflation and backed by the gold. Unfortunately, US fought Vietnam war by itself. The war created big financial drain of US budget. Nixon decoupled dollar with gold. Gold prices skyrocketed. OPEC felt it is selling oil too cheaply and lauched an oil embargo. These factors cause inflation to go up and out of control. Carter was not able to fight inflation. President Reagan advocated free economy and successfully broke the labor union grip on US companies. In the meantime, Reagon spent lavishly on military budgets and causing deficit to rise. Meanwhile, US and China established diplomatic relations. This allowed US companies find lots of cheap labor to make better profit. Inflation pressure gradually receded in the late Reagon years. I could go on and on with what Bush, Clinton did later. It looks everything proceeded by the invisible hand of money. The question is what US should do to insure the continued prosperity of American people.
"During the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, Arab members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) imposed an embargo against the United States in retaliation for the U.S. decision to re-supply the Israeli military and to gain leverage in the post-war peace negotiations."
So much for your education in the PRC.
Of note, China still doesn't have the GDP of the U.S., won't have it under the best of conditions for another decade, not even at four times the population of the U.S. China's population is aging, economic growth is hitting the S curve, and China is running into "the middle income trap" and may not "get rich before it grows old", even with the allowance of more children.
"Xi Jinping has become the ultimate authority on business operations and politics in China. This has led to concerns among companies and states dealing with China, concerns that Beijing’s lack of transparency with regards to the true extent of the Covid-19 outbreak have only augmented. Investors active across the country have therefore increasingly been looking for alternatives.
An early mover was South Korean conglomerate Lotte, which moved its supply chain subtly and imperceptibly out of China after being forcefully sanctioned by the Beijing government as the corporation sold a piece of land to the South Korean government, which was eventually used by the US to counter threats from North Korea.
Samsung started downsizing its manufacturing units in Shenzhen and Tianjin and also began shifting production to Vietnam because of the volatility of the Chinese government and tariffs.
Meanwhile, its market share in the Chinese market has shrunk because of competition from domestic rivals. This shift that started with Lotte and Samsung has recently accelerated with the Covid-19 crisis and Japan and China’s conflictual attitude. However, it’s not only the Japanese and the Americans who are leaving mainland China and setting up shop elsewhere. Chinese business owners are also doing the same.
Fundamentally, the Xi Jinping regime now faces its biggest challenge as the ‘middle-income trap’ looms large in the horizon. This term refers to those countries which have experienced rapid growth and reached the status of middle-income country in a very short period of time, but then fail to catch up with the higher income economies and hence get trapped.
Foreign companies not only contribute to China’s economic growth, but also provide exports and employment. All of these factors are important if China wants to leave the vicious middle-income trap. If foreign companies continue to leave, then new investment may stagnate, which will negatively affect all the factors required for China to ascend to the status of a high-income economy."
The Biden Administration is rebuilding the U.S. Alliances that were damaged under the Trump Administration, and is also building strong military alliances in the Indo-Pacific, including the Quad of Japan, Australia, India, and the U.S.
Time is running out for China, and that is on Xi Jinping for alienating the West.
To blame everything on Xi is false. The real force is economy. There were manny Americans critical of China made products as early as twenty years ago. Then China starts to make more and more money from US. Apple won't become the most valuable company without manufacturing in China. Be thankful to China if you love Apple. Apple almost became bankrupt in 1997.
Merkel is going to be out of office by the end of the year, and I doubt that her replacement will be as friendly to China. I'm thinking that trade agreement is dead.
Apple is already in the process of re-sourcing its supply chain out of China, as are many other Western companies.
When will you understand? The real force is economy.
China's economy isn't as large as the U.S. economy is today, won't be as large until 2032 at best, and it is looking like it never will be larger than the U.S. economy due to the many Western companies that are exiting China.
Sure, China has a huge workforce that is great for assembly of the iPhone, but it is also that case, that many other countries also have workforces that are large enough to also provide assembly (hint; India in the future).
In 2021, the U.S. is first at $22,675,271 T, and China is second at $16,642,318 T, so the U.S. economy is 36% larger.
The current U.S. population is 333 M, and China is 1,445 M so China is 4.34 times larger in population.
China has quite a task ahead to surpass the U.S. economy.
Of course US wins in nominal GDP. A US truck driver earns over $60,000/year. A Chinese driver probably makes less than $10,000/year. lol
What you just stated, is that if the driver in China is paid in dollars, they would make less than $10,000 a year. I agree with that. It is also true that if China's entire economy is valued in dollars, it is less than the entire U.S. economy.
Were it not for China's exports/imports, ie, transactions with the rest of the world, valuation of its economy would matter little, and China is doing everything it can to avoid trade in dollars.
"Despite trillions of dollars in foreign debt and continuous large deficit spending, the United States still holds global trust and confidence in its ability to pay its obligations. For this reason, the U.S. dollar remains the strongest world currency."
China isn't anywhere close to that with its own currency.
And that's the problem. We squandered our industrial empire -- and now we are squandering our hold on having the world's defacto currency by undermining it with massive unconstrained debt and the unconstrained printing of that currency.
In the 60's & 70's we believed our industrial empire could never be challenged much less toppled.
Today we believe the same about our currency -- our last claim to non-military power.
Hubris and delusion are both deadly. And we suffer from both.
And, once again we are destroying ourselves.
FFS,
The U.S. continues to be the strongest economic power in the world, and China is very far from matching us. Militarily, the U.S. continues to have and to enhance alliances with Western Democracies.
The PRC is basically on its own, most recently from its failed "Wolf Warrior Diplomacy", and failing political system led by Xi Jinping, and that isn't the fault of the U.S.
Of course the world is reevaluating its relationship with the PRC, and companies leaving for greener pastures is reasonable and expected.
The country’s paramount leader is turning away from reforms that helped it grow and develop. That will have consequences beyond its borders.
Get a new soapbox.
Ooops! Didn't mean to trigger you into another soap box lecture about China!
But then I didn't -- the post you are reacting to -- that exploded your brain -- never mentioned China in any way.
You need to see somebody about this obsession of yours.
Too funny.
I'm capable of processing multiple posts, from multiple posters, and responding to the context, and in this case, the context is that the U.S. isn't in fact "destroying itself", nor "squandering" its economic lead, nor is China in a position to match the U.S. economy within the next decade, if ever.
Just more of your gaslighting.
Xi Jinping's leadership has certainly awakened the world to the PRC's brand of authoritarianism, and the world is rapidly responding to that, though not to the benefit of the PRC. It is also the case that China is going to have to deal with its "middle income trap", and its aging population, which is likely to prevent China from becoming a wealthy superpower.
Calm down.
Take a deep breath.
It'll be OK -- you're just getting yourself all worked up because somebody somewhere (you don't seem to remember who or where or when) mentioned China...
Your quote:
Aside from the fact that it makes zero difference to the U.S. if a car or phone is built in China or in Mexico, if we want to compete with either, we need to become more competitive. The problem is not with China, Vietnam, Japan or Mexico. They didn't take it from us. We gave it away.
Seems to me, that until the PRC matches our GDP, which may never happen, that it's China that is having to compete with us, not the other way around.
Now would be a good time for you to wander around the "All you can eat CCP propaganda buffet" on the Internet, looking for more straw men.
Nah! That's your MO.
I prefer reality.
Reality is that the U.S. economy is stronger than China's, much stronger.
You seem fixated on stating otherwise, but the "reality" living rent free in your head, is quite flawed.
Meanwhile;
...the EU Parliament has voted for a diplomatic boycott of the 2022 Winter Olympics.
Are you only able to find political opinions? Do you know what Pompeo said "we cheat, we lie,.." Sorry I don't remember the rest because whatever he said is garbage. Same to you!
Uhm, that's politicians making diplomatic policy, and it's quite different than Xi Jinping telling the CCP what to to.
Google search help find the complete quote. And you are very proud of to be part of it.
Mike Pompeo About CIA : We lied, We cheated, We stole
How nice for you to find that, but it doesn't change the rest of the world's response to PRC human rights violations, does it.
"The famine that killed up to 45 million people remains a taboo subject in China 50 years on. Author Yang Jisheng is determined to change that with his book, Tombstone"
Hard for the West to top Mao, and Mao's self announced heir, Xi Jinping.
Wow! You have good collections of the materials. You are pretty familiar of western demonization of CCP. You know that most of these are exaggerations. Why are you so interested in CCP if you are not related to China? Why do you hate China?
Why are you posting here?
We certainly aren't allowed the freedom to post in China, that you have here. Seems unfair, doesn't it, that we aren't allowed to troll web forums in the PRC.
I'm guessing that you are part of the United Front Work Department. Yes?
I suppose,15 million dead is a just a number; but 45 million dead is just horrible, and must be an exaggeration.
Chinese sensibilities are such that the people can never learn the truth about the failures of the CCP.
This is a stupid question. I am a US citizen. I have the right of freedom of speech. Why you can't answer my question?
Why do I hate the CCP? Why do I hate an authoritarian system that doesn't allow freedom of speech?
If you are, as you say. a U.S. Citizen, then you don't need to ask me that question, do you.
The answer is self evident.
Unless you really aren't a U.S. citizen. Your poor grasp of English gives you away, so you weren't born here, which means you would have to be naturalized.
No, it is not freedom of speech. You forgot you tried to deny my freedom of speech. Your logic is the same reason CCP blocked freedom of speech. It is called patriotism.
I couldn't have denied you your freedom of speech if I wanted to, but I certainly have the right to ask why you are posting on this forum, and you certainly have the right not to answer.
More to the point;
I don't believe that you are a U.S. Citizen, and I don't believe that you can convince me that you are. You really don't understand what freedom of speech is, and your story smells like bullshit.
You tried. You don't understand what freedom of speech is. American freedom of speech protects hate speech. This is why you are educated to have hatred in your heart. This is why there are so many massacres in US. The killers all have hatred in their mind that they think they are right. This is the same thinking you have. Read Wikipedia about what US freedom of speech is to educate yourself. If you can't find, i can help you.
Proving that you are not a U.S. Citizen, that you are a liar, that you are a CCP troll, is that what you had in mind?
You have convinced me of that.
So me "hating" on authoritarians of the PRC is what you are concerned about, not my concern for those Chinese minorities, that have their human rights violated by the CCP?
That's the problem I have with authoritarians; they are such hypocrites. You complain to me of my not understanding freedom of speech, then argue that I have hatred in my heart, then accuse me of being a killer in my thinking.
Through all of that, you can't explain to me what freedom of speech is, likely because the idea of freedom of speech is so abhorrent in Chinese culture.
News;
Freedom of speech, also called free speech, means the free and public expression of opinions without censorship, interference and restraint by the government.
I can see how that would scare the bejesus out of the CCP.
Your hate speech is literally an embarrassment to all who love our freedom and democracy (as opposed to those who wave the flag but promote a racist, closed, society based on fear, hate and fascism).
If you hate China because it is not a free, independent democracy as you claim, then you need to live up to those ideals. Or label yourself what you have labelled others: a hypocrite.
He absolutely isn't a U.S. Citizen.
He obviously wasn't born here from his poor English skills. If his parents immigrated, they wouldn't have met the standards for naturalization for at least 5 years, which means that even as a child, he would have been in a U.S. school system and his language skills would be much better than they are shown in his postings.
If he was older, and came to the U.S., he would have had to take a naturalization test, and swear an oath, all of which would have required a knowledge of the U.S. Constitution, and he would have intimate knowledge of what free speech in the U.S. is.
He has no backstory at all of living in the U.S.; even you have a backstory, living in Pittsburgh.
I challenged him on that, he didn't respond, other than to continue haranguing me about my so called "hate speech".
So, what the fuck is the CCP shill doing here, and why are you defending him?
He shouldn't respond -- lend credence -- to your crazed, hate filled allegations.
By your definition, everything that I do is "hate filled', so I might as well restate the obvious; your new best bud is lying about his U.S. citizenship, and you are incredibly naive to have been taken in.
Have a nice day!!
This is the new whataboutism, just accuse any critic of being a hater, no need to engage in further debate! Which is a good thing for these guys, actual debate doesn't suit them, having to back up their claims, source their facts, use reason and civility to get their point across. Nope, the other guys are all crazy and hate-filled! Hate-filled about what? Doesn't matter, it's just hate hate hate!
LOL.... TMay is clearly a China Hater. An obsessive China Hater. Not only does it take only a soft breeze to set off his trigger, but he starts with the hate then fills in the blanks to justify it. And, as soon as he loses one argument he simply moves to some other aspect of his China hatred.
It's a shame really. He sounds like he's a pretty intelligent person. Just blinded by his obsessive hatred.
Sure Georgey, he's the obsessive hate-filled one when practically every third word you type is China, or Trump, or part of some other barely comprehensible rant about the state of the world. Keep telling yourself that enough and you might make it true.
You should try realilty. You might like it!
Your United Work Party Department pal, waveparticle, is late for work. What's up? Is that 996 workweek taking a toll on him?
Maybe you can call him on your SinoTrollPhone and find out if they'll be sending out a replacement right away. I don't have all day to wait around just to break a new guy in.
Comments
You should try realilty. You might like it!
Maybe you can call him on your SinoTrollPhone and find out if they'll be sending out a replacement right away. I don't have all day to wait around just to break a new guy in.