Facebook reports record ad revenue after grousing about iOS privacy features

Posted:
in General Discussion edited July 28
Facebook is making money hand over fist despite warnings of impending doom due to new iOS privacy features Apple introduced in April.

Facebook ATT


The social network raked in $28.6 billion in advertising revenue for the second quarter of 2021, up 56% from the same period last year. Advertising accounts for nearly all of the company's income, with total revenue coming in at $29.1 billion.

Facebook more than doubled its profits from the previous year with a $10.4 billion performance, up from $5.2 billion in 2020.

Still, the company is bracing investors for rough waters in the coming months. CFO David Wehner in a statement blames the headwinds on new privacy features Apple baked into its iOS operating system.

"We continue to expect increased ad targeting headwinds in 2021 from regulatory and platform changes, notably the recent iOS updates, which we expect to have a greater impact in the third quarter compared to the second quarter," Wehner said.

Apple in April rolled out updates to iOS that are designed to limit ad targeting by restricting app access to users' Identification for Advertisers (IDFA) tags. Called App Tracking Transparency, the feature requires developers to ask users for permission before using IDFA tags to track their activity across apps and the web.

The notification comes in the form of a consent prompt that is displayed when an app is first opened. It is expected that more users will opt out of ad tracking with the option surfaced so prominently, leaving ad companies in search of new targeting technologies. Apple provides the privacy-conscious SKAdNetwork and Privacy Click Measurement ad attribution tools as replacements for IDFA tags.

Facebook has aggressively resisted Apple's implementation of ATT on claims that the privacy change will deal a major blow to the bottom lines of ad tech companies and small businesses reliant on ad sales. CEO Mark Zuckerberg previously predicted fallout from ATT would begin to impact Facebook's bottom line this quarter.

Read on AppleInsider
patchythepirate

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 20
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 911member
    Fear-mongering crybabies. 
    williamlondonWgkruegerbadmonkAlex_VStrangeDaysBIGhammerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 20
    amar99amar99 Posts: 87member
    How are they able to operate in such a behind-the-scenes way without full transparency and make billions upon billions? Apple has done at least part of what it could via their App Store transparency labels, but it's clear there's a long way to go. Regulation might wind up being the only way to reign in the seemingly unlimited data-harvesting power of most big tech companies. Although from the government-tech hearings I've seen, my hopes are low that the right people are in office to understand what's needed, let alone to act in ways beneficial to people / society, yet not detrimental to the Internet's functionality and benefits.
    edited July 28 Alex_Vjeffharrispatchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 20
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,818member
    Sounds like the drama queen can afford to buy himself some new arrows, spears, and replacement bowling pins. Who knows, maybe he is planning to require his employees to compete in an actual Hunger Games competition against him and was just practicing his throw against representative unarmed pinheads.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 20
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,470member
    If you have to use FB OR Instagram (or Twitter but different comoany), and happen to see an ad for something you are interested in, don't touch or click the ad.  Just go to Safari and look up the company or shop directly, outside of FB.  We don't want the companies that use FB to advertise to think their ads do anything.   Also ads outside of FB should get the same treatment.  FB and others are selling that ad space as well.  
    baconstangJaiOh81bonobobmuthuk_vanalingamAlex_Vwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 20
    amar99 said:
    How are they able to operate in such a behind-the-scenes way without full transparency and make billions upon billions? Apple has done at least part of what it could via their App Store transparency labels, but it's clear there's a long way to go. Regulation might wind up being the only way to reign in the seemingly unlimited data-harvesting power of most big tech companies. Although from the government-tech hearings I've seen, my hopes are low that the right people are in office to understand what's needed, let alone to act in ways beneficial to people / society, yet not detrimental to the Internet's functionality and benefits.

    How are they able? Because most consumers aren't aware of what it means when Facebook(or Google) says "advertising" or "user experience" or my favorite "user interaction". To most consumers, they hear "advertising" and they think of a beer or car commercial on TV, or a corner of webpage with an image selling Tshirts, Most consumers have enough on their plate, are tech internet savvy limited, and will not be digging into what Facebook actually does behind the scenes to make "advertising" so lucrative.  Plus most consumers get much of their information snippets from online platforms and corporate media. None of these entities (some of who are in on the data mining money stream stream to small extents) question or explain data mining whatsoever.  Then add to that troll farms and Android users online (some you'll read hear at AI) who purposefully muddle the issue with 'they all do it', 'the internet is not private', 'everyone knows they collect your data, it's no big deal'. This is purposeful clouding of th issue. But factually, indisputably, Android users(and Apple haters) have to muddle it. The truth is clear in regards to expanded data mining and who does this on big scales. Be aware when you see posters on AI trying to make the 'they all do it' claims in differing ways. They ultimately are saying the same thing that is trying to cloud the truth. 

    Apple is a minority portion of the mobile operating system market. Further, it has only been the last 18 months that Apple has significantly begun to cutoff these big personal data miners, Facebook and Google. Hopefully more people will become aware over the next 18 months.
    Simply cutting off the ability for one installed app to not be able to record what you do while using other apps (maps, texts, internet, calendar, contacts etc) is a huge step in the right direction. Probably the biggest step that could be taken. 
    Alex_VRonnyDaddywatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 20
    JaiOh81JaiOh81 Posts: 36member
    chadbag said:
    If you have to use FB OR Instagram (or Twitter but different comoany), and happen to see an ad for something you are interested in, don't touch or click the ad.  Just go to Safari and look up the company or shop directly, outside of FB.  We don't want the companies that use FB to advertise to think their ads do anything.   Also ads outside of FB should get the same treatment.  FB and others are selling that ad space as well.  
    This is exactly what I was going to suggest  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 20
    geekmeegeekmee Posts: 473member
    “Slowly I turn… Step by Step…”

    FB is whistling in the dark.
    edited July 29 watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 20
    Facebook has reason to grouse. It’s huge money for Facebook (and Google) to record everything you do on almost every single app you use on your phone. The more they know about where you go, when you go, what phrases yiu type, who you know(contacts), what you previously bought, what’s in your calendar, what bank apps you use, among others, the more money they make. How can people not see how lucrative it is to know as much data privacy about potential buyers goods? It allows Facebook to guarantee to sellers of products that they will sell to these X people because they know all about every person in that group. Not as a group, they know very detailed information about every single person in that group. That’s mega bank to Facebook! (and Google)

    With Apple shutting off a 1/5 of FB users’ third party tracking, Facebook cannot now watch these iOS users across maps, contacts, calendar, browsing, texting, recent calls etc etc etc.  They don’t have all that valuable privacy information to pinpoint who will buy what. No way this doesn’t hurt Facebook’s ability to say to sellers of products “I know these people like the back of my hand, so I can guarantee x number of sales”. Apple diluted that and it means less money for Facebook (and Google but smaller hit to them). This is why Mark Facebook said in 2019 “I want Apple to feel pain”. 
    (This is the part Android users chime in with the lie ‘They’re all the same, Apple is just as bad ”). 
    Alex_Vwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 20
    Alex_VAlex_V Posts: 42member
    I agree with all the comments so far. I had an exchange with a guy on FB over this issue. (There is irony there, I acknowledge.) He was talking up Google’s recent privacy changes, as if to say that they were the same as Apple’s. I pointed out that they stopped third parties from snooping, but Google can still snoop. I asked him: Google doesn’t make money selling phones, and they provide Android for free. Why would they do that? How do they make money? The answer is: they sell data on their users. The guy responded that he knew that because he was in marketing. So, why was he arguing about it on the internet?
    StrangeDaysmobirdwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 20
    chadbag said:
    If you have to use FB OR Instagram (or Twitter but different comoany), and happen to see an ad for something you are interested in, don't touch or click the ad.  Just go to Safari and look up the company or shop directly, outside of FB.  We don't want the companies that use FB to advertise to think their ads do anything.   Also ads outside of FB should get the same treatment.  FB and others are selling that ad space as well.  

    You have good intentions but their abilities are beyond this. You very likely aren’t costing them anything. 

    You see ad for X on FB/WhatApp — you leave FB and go directly to X — you buy something on X that was in the Facebook ad — X then sends your Iphone’s IDFA (they got this during sales process) or other identifier and the product you purchased info to Facebook. — Facebook long ago recorded your IDFA and other IDs into your file. Your sale is recorded at Facebook. 
    This is a Success! to X. The Facebook sales system works. X wants FB to know because the more Facebook knows — the more they know who will be buyers — the more they can guarantee to get more of X’s products sold. 

    It sucks! This data mining (surveillance capitalism) is sophisticated as hell. The good news is Apple has provided a way to block App access to the IDFA. If that is blocked and it previously has never been recorded, the FB (and Google)privacy data mining monetizing loop is getting a bit more short circuited. But They’ll try to use your IP address instead. Apple will be blocking that if you have ICloud+ and use Safari. Short circuiting even better. Use the email pixel blocker too that Apple is providing with iCloud. 

    If someone is an Android user? Not much you can currently do to keep out of the surveillance capitalism private info gathering loop. Go pound on Google’s door to provide actual tracking blockers 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 20
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,171member
    Alex_V said:
    I agree with all the comments so far. I had an exchange with a guy on FB over this issue. (There is irony there, I acknowledge.) He was talking up Google’s recent privacy changes, as if to say that they were the same as Apple’s. I pointed out that they stopped third parties from snooping, but Google can still snoop. I asked him: Google doesn’t make money selling phones, and they provide Android for free. Why would they do that? How do they make money? The answer is: they sell data on their users. The guy responded that he knew that because he was in marketing. So, why was he arguing about it on the internet?
    Your friend lied. :)
    Google doesn't sell user data. 
    muthuk_vanalingamctt_zh
  • Reply 12 of 20
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,574member
    gatorguy said:
    Alex_V said:
    I agree with all the comments so far. I had an exchange with a guy on FB over this issue. (There is irony there, I acknowledge.) He was talking up Google’s recent privacy changes, as if to say that they were the same as Apple’s. I pointed out that they stopped third parties from snooping, but Google can still snoop. I asked him: Google doesn’t make money selling phones, and they provide Android for free. Why would they do that? How do they make money? The answer is: they sell data on their users. The guy responded that he knew that because he was in marketing. So, why was he arguing about it on the internet?
    Your friend lied. :)
    Google doesn't sell user data. 
    Selling targeted advertising access to sub-categories of users based on user data, is exactly what is meant when people say “sell your data”. They’re selling access to your metadata. Your little semantic games will never change that and just leave you looking intellectually dishonest. 
    edited July 29 patchythepirateigorskyAlex_Vmacguiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 20
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 581member
    amar99 said:
    How are they able to operate in such a behind-the-scenes way without full transparency and make billions upon billions? Apple has done at least part of what it could via their App Store transparency labels, but it's clear there's a long way to go. Regulation might wind up being the only way to reign in the seemingly unlimited data-harvesting power of most big tech companies. Although from the government-tech hearings I've seen, my hopes are low that the right people are in office to understand what's needed, let alone to act in ways beneficial to people / society, yet not detrimental to the Internet's functionality and benefits.

    How are they able? Because most consumers aren't aware of what it means when Facebook(or Google) says "advertising" or "user experience" or my favorite "user interaction". To most consumers, they hear "advertising" and they think of a beer or car commercial on TV, or a corner of webpage with an image selling Tshirts, Most consumers have enough on their plate, are tech internet savvy limited, and will not be digging into what Facebook actually does behind the scenes to make "advertising" so lucrative.  Plus most consumers get much of their information snippets from online platforms and corporate media. None of these entities (some of who are in on the data mining money stream stream to small extents) question or explain data mining whatsoever.  Then add to that troll farms and Android users online (some you'll read hear at AI) who purposefully muddle the issue with 'they all do it', 'the internet is not private', 'everyone knows they collect your data, it's no big deal'. This is purposeful clouding of th issue. But factually, indisputably, Android users(and Apple haters) have to muddle it. The truth is clear in regards to expanded data mining and who does this on big scales. Be aware when you see posters on AI trying to make the 'they all do it' claims in differing ways. They ultimately are saying the same thing that is trying to cloud the truth. 

    Apple is a minority portion of the mobile operating system market. Further, it has only been the last 18 months that Apple has significantly begun to cutoff these big personal data miners, Facebook and Google. Hopefully more people will become aware over the next 18 months.
    Simply cutting off the ability for one installed app to not be able to record what you do while using other apps (maps, texts, internet, calendar, contacts etc) is a huge step in the right direction. Probably the biggest step that could be taken. 
    Sorry but saying "the poor consumer doesn't know what's really going on" is no longer a good excuse.  This business model has been around for a while now and there have been a myriad of articles explaining what companies like Facebook do with their data.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 20
    Alex_VAlex_V Posts: 42member
    igorsky said:
    Sorry but saying "the poor consumer doesn't know what's really going on" is no longer a good excuse.  This business model has been around for a while now and there have been a myriad of articles explaining what companies like Facebook do with their data.  
    You would think so, but… When people go into a store to buy a cell phone, they see an iPhone, which for a thousand dollars they get ‘hardware’ (handset) and ‘software’ (iOS); and they can pay extra for ‘services’ (iCloud). Then there is a Samsung for a thousand bucks, which they assume is the same thing. Because everyone says it’s the same. But it ain’t. You pay for the hardware, the software comes free because Google wants your detailed profile to target for advertising. It looks the same, but they’re being sold something else entirely. It’s an entirely different business model. 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 20
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,171member
    gatorguy said:
    Alex_V said:
    I agree with all the comments so far. I had an exchange with a guy on FB over this issue. (There is irony there, I acknowledge.) He was talking up Google’s recent privacy changes, as if to say that they were the same as Apple’s. I pointed out that they stopped third parties from snooping, but Google can still snoop. I asked him: Google doesn’t make money selling phones, and they provide Android for free. Why would they do that? How do they make money? The answer is: they sell data on their users. The guy responded that he knew that because he was in marketing. So, why was he arguing about it on the internet?
    Your friend lied. :)
    Google doesn't sell user data. 
    Selling targeted advertising access to sub-categories of users based on user data, is exactly what is meant when people say “sell your data”. They’re selling access to your metadata. Your little semantic games will never change that and just leave you looking intellectually dishonest. 
    It's more YOUR little semantics game, and a very misleading one played by a few others. There's no advertiser access to user data, especially not YOUR OWN personal data. 
    User data is not for sale, tho there are companies that do, even ones you inherently trust (perhaps because you don't know any better?)

    Google places ads for companies based on baskets of ANONYMISED USERS WITH SIMILAR DEMOGRAPHICS in much the same way Apple creates baskets of users for delivering targeted ads in certain Apple services. Baby steps. You know why Apple treats that as OK to do? Because they aren't selling that data or even giving it away, and neither is Google. The intellectual dishonesty is pretending they do.

    Is maintaining a talking point so important to you that using half-truths to do so is acceptable? Don't work that FUD. Be better than that. 
    edited July 29 ctt_zhmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 16 of 20
    Alex_VAlex_V Posts: 42member
    gatorguy said:

    It's more YOUR little semantics game, and a very misleading one played by a few others. There's no advertiser access to user data, especially not YOUR OWN personal data. 
    User data is not for sale, tho there are companies that do, even ones you inherently trust (perhaps because you don't know any better?)

    Google places ads for companies based on baskets of ANONYMISED USERS WITH SIMILAR DEMOGRAPHICS in much the same way Apple creates baskets of users for delivering targeted ads in certain Apple services. Baby steps. You know why Apple treats that as OK to do? Because they aren't selling that data or even giving it away, and neither is Google. The intellectual dishonesty is pretending they do.

    Is maintaining a talking point so important to you that using half-truths to do so is acceptable? Don't work that FUD. Be better than that. 

    Whatever. Google snoops on us. They monitor us online, they scan our emails, etc. They want to know as much as they can about each of us to build up a detailed psychographic profile of us: Demography, socio-economic status, political beliefs, sexuality, etc. Etc.  In the long run, like the NSA, they want to know everything about everyone. Google then sells that knowledge to advertisers. I’m not so comforted that it is anonymous. Because Google knows. Plus, they did this surreptitiously, without informing us. Apple's big offence was to insist that we are informed. 

    As far as I know, the only adverts that Apple presents to me are on the App Store. When I search for a word processor, it says: “Here’s another word processor, have a look.”
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 20
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,171member
    Alex_V said:
    gatorguy said:

    It's more YOUR little semantics game, and a very misleading one played by a few others. There's no advertiser access to user data, especially not YOUR OWN personal data. 
    User data is not for sale, tho there are companies that do, even ones you inherently trust (perhaps because you don't know any better?)

    Google places ads for companies based on baskets of ANONYMISED USERS WITH SIMILAR DEMOGRAPHICS in much the same way Apple creates baskets of users for delivering targeted ads in certain Apple services. Baby steps. You know why Apple treats that as OK to do? Because they aren't selling that data or even giving it away, and neither is Google. The intellectual dishonesty is pretending they do.

    Is maintaining a talking point so important to you that using half-truths to do so is acceptable? Don't work that FUD. Be better than that. 

    Whatever. Google snoops on us. They monitor us online, they scan our emails, etc. They want to know as much as they can about each of us to build up a detailed psychographic profile of us: Demography, socio-economic status, political beliefs, sexuality, etc. Etc.  In the long run, like the NSA, they want to know everything about everyone. Google then sells that knowledge to advertisers. I’m not so comforted that it is anonymous. Because Google knows. Plus, they did this surreptitiously, without informing us. Apple's big offence was to insist that we are informed. 

    As far as I know, the only adverts that Apple presents to me are on the App Store. When I search for a word processor, it says: “Here’s another word processor, have a look.”
    Scanning emails for ads? Nope, not in years.
    Political beliefs? Google doesn't permit ads based on that, nor allow collection of data related to it.
    Sexuality? Nope, another category that Google does not allow. 

    You're also not all that familiar with Apple's ad platform, so the link to that is here:
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205223

    If you do more reading and research and less assumption you'd not be so misinformed. 
    edited July 29 muthuk_vanalingamctt_zh
  • Reply 18 of 20
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    Alex_V said:
    I agree with all the comments so far. I had an exchange with a guy on FB over this issue. (There is irony there, I acknowledge.) He was talking up Google’s recent privacy changes, as if to say that they were the same as Apple’s. I pointed out that they stopped third parties from snooping, but Google can still snoop. I asked him: Google doesn’t make money selling phones, and they provide Android for free. Why would they do that? How do they make money? The answer is: they sell data on their users. The guy responded that he knew that because he was in marketing. So, why was he arguing about it on the internet?
    Your friend lied. :)
    Google doesn't sell user data. 
    Selling targeted advertising access to sub-categories of users based on user data, is exactly what is meant when people say “sell your data”. They’re selling access to your metadata. Your little semantic games will never change that and just leave you looking intellectually dishonest. 
    It's more YOUR little semantics game, and a very misleading one played by a few others. There's no advertiser access to user data, especially not YOUR OWN personal data. 
    User data is not for sale, tho there are companies that do, even ones you inherently trust (perhaps because you don't know any better?)

    Google places ads for companies based on baskets of ANONYMISED USERS WITH SIMILAR DEMOGRAPHICS in much the same way Apple creates baskets of users for delivering targeted ads in certain Apple services. Baby steps. You know why Apple treats that as OK to do? Because they aren't selling that data or even giving it away, and neither is Google. The intellectual dishonesty is pretending they do.

    Is maintaining a talking point so important to you that using half-truths to do so is acceptable? Don't work that FUD. Be better than that. 
    "In much the same way Apple does". And you accuse others of using half truths? Using the standard lie of 'see they all do it' to confuse the issue. It's becoming a time honored obfuscation for the Android crowd. 

    The difference between what private information Google(and Facebook) collect on you(personally you not an obscure group) and what Apple collects on you is massive, and I mean MASSIVE! Anything Gatorguy says from this point will not factually contradict that, period, end of story.  He's trying the bait and switch with 'who gets to see that personal information'. Then using that to push ''see, they all do it' equivocation. It's used by the Android crowd time and time and time again -- and it's dishonest.
    but they have to do that. The issue of privacy data mining is not just won by Apple, Apple wins it running away by 100 miles. That's not the simple claim of an Apple user, that is verifiable, quantifiable, indisputable fact. Everything they try to push from here will be to obscure that 100% fact.

    But to play the obfuscation game: who gets to see the massive private information of a user on an Android platform and the minimal information that Apple collects? For both platforms it is negotiable via ToS updates(especially using gray area wording in the ToS. Don't ever believe that a company (Google, Facebook, even Apple) may not change their policy. They will.  For Google (and Facebook... among others) whose main income of 100 to 200 billion dollars per year in "advertising" revenue, this huge number is achieved by knowing as much about you as possible. I can almost guarantee there will be changes to ToS especially if these many billions in revenue start going south. 

    It's free and relatively say to do: get a copy of the private data recorded by Google, by Facebook, by Apple. See the truth for yourself. Just be prepared to be shocked at how big the file and how huge the private information Google and Facebook have recorded on you (again this is fact, nothing Gatorguy or the others trying to cloud the issue can honestly dispute). 
    Alex_Vwilliamlondon
  • Reply 19 of 20
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,171member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    Alex_V said:
    I agree with all the comments so far. I had an exchange with a guy on FB over this issue. (There is irony there, I acknowledge.) He was talking up Google’s recent privacy changes, as if to say that they were the same as Apple’s. I pointed out that they stopped third parties from snooping, but Google can still snoop. I asked him: Google doesn’t make money selling phones, and they provide Android for free. Why would they do that? How do they make money? The answer is: they sell data on their users. The guy responded that he knew that because he was in marketing. So, why was he arguing about it on the internet?
    Your friend lied. :)
    Google doesn't sell user data. 
    Selling targeted advertising access to sub-categories of users based on user data, is exactly what is meant when people say “sell your data”. They’re selling access to your metadata. Your little semantic games will never change that and just leave you looking intellectually dishonest. 
    It's more YOUR little semantics game, and a very misleading one played by a few others. There's no advertiser access to user data, especially not YOUR OWN personal data. 
    User data is not for sale, tho there are companies that do, even ones you inherently trust (perhaps because you don't know any better?)

    Google places ads for companies based on baskets of ANONYMISED USERS WITH SIMILAR DEMOGRAPHICS in much the same way Apple creates baskets of users for delivering targeted ads in certain Apple services. Baby steps. You know why Apple treats that as OK to do? Because they aren't selling that data or even giving it away, and neither is Google. The intellectual dishonesty is pretending they do.

    Is maintaining a talking point so important to you that using half-truths to do so is acceptable? Don't work that FUD. Be better than that. 
    "In much the same way Apple does". And you accuse others of using half truths? Using the standard lie of 'see they all do it' to confuse the issue. It's becoming a time honored obfuscation for the Android crowd. 

    The difference between what private information Google(and Facebook) collect on you(personally you not an obscure group) and what Apple collects on you is massive, and I mean MASSIVE! Anything Gatorguy says from this point will not factually contradict that, period, end of story.  He's trying the bait and switch with 'who gets to see that personal information'. Then using that to push ''see, they all do it' equivocation. It's used by the Android crowd time and time and time again -- and it's dishonest.
    but they have to do that. The issue of privacy data mining is not just won by Apple, Apple wins it running away by 100 miles. That's not the simple claim of an Apple user, that is verifiable, quantifiable, indisputable fact. Everything they try to push from here will be to obscure that 100% fact.

    But to play the obfuscation game: who gets to see the massive private information of a user on an Android platform and the minimal information that Apple collects? For both platforms it is negotiable via ToS updates(especially using gray area wording in the ToS. Don't ever believe that a company (Google, Facebook, even Apple) may not change their policy. They will.  For Google (and Facebook... among others) whose main income of 100 to 200 billion dollars per year in "advertising" revenue, this huge number is achieved by knowing as much about you as possible. I can almost guarantee there will be changes to ToS especially if these many billions in revenue start going south. 

    It's free and relatively say to do: get a copy of the private data recorded by Google, by Facebook, by Apple. See the truth for yourself. Just be prepared to be shocked at how big the file and how huge the private information Google and Facebook have recorded on you (again this is fact, nothing Gatorguy or the others trying to cloud the issue can honestly dispute). 
    Oh, Google places far more emphasis on maximizing the value of their advertising services than Apple does. Why wouldn't they? That is absolutely not the same as "selling your data". They don't. "They all do it" is not the point at all.

    At the same time Apple is making sure to keep their fingers in advertising and if a time comes that hardware isn't delivering the revenue gains they want don't' believe they won't make ads a much bigger piece of their business. While iAd failed, and they will probably never be as good at it as Google anyway, Apple never has given up on testing the targeted ad waters. There's so much money there, why would they? Apple can see how successful Alphabet is, all they have to do is look at recent results. MASSIVE gains YOY. I'd be shocked (and so would you IMHO) if they wouldn't like a bigger piece of it, just as Google wants a bigger piece of hardware. 
    ctt_zh
  • Reply 20 of 20
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    Alex_V said:
    I agree with all the comments so far. I had an exchange with a guy on FB over this issue. (There is irony there, I acknowledge.) He was talking up Google’s recent privacy changes, as if to say that they were the same as Apple’s. I pointed out that they stopped third parties from snooping, but Google can still snoop. I asked him: Google doesn’t make money selling phones, and they provide Android for free. Why would they do that? How do they make money? The answer is: they sell data on their users. The guy responded that he knew that because he was in marketing. So, why was he arguing about it on the internet?
    Your friend lied. :)
    Google doesn't sell user data. 
    Selling targeted advertising access to sub-categories of users based on user data, is exactly what is meant when people say “sell your data”. They’re selling access to your metadata. Your little semantic games will never change that and just leave you looking intellectually dishonest. 
    It's more YOUR little semantics game, and a very misleading one played by a few others. There's no advertiser access to user data, especially not YOUR OWN personal data. 
    User data is not for sale, tho there are companies that do, even ones you inherently trust (perhaps because you don't know any better?)

    Google places ads for companies based on baskets of ANONYMISED USERS WITH SIMILAR DEMOGRAPHICS in much the same way Apple creates baskets of users for delivering targeted ads in certain Apple services. Baby steps. You know why Apple treats that as OK to do? Because they aren't selling that data or even giving it away, and neither is Google. The intellectual dishonesty is pretending they do.

    Is maintaining a talking point so important to you that using half-truths to do so is acceptable? Don't work that FUD. Be better than that. 
    "In much the same way Apple does". And you accuse others of using half truths? Using the standard lie of 'see they all do it' to confuse the issue. It's becoming a time honored obfuscation for the Android crowd. 

    The difference between what private information Google(and Facebook) collect on you(personally you not an obscure group) and what Apple collects on you is massive, and I mean MASSIVE! Anything Gatorguy says from this point will not factually contradict that, period, end of story.  He's trying the bait and switch with 'who gets to see that personal information'. Then using that to push ''see, they all do it' equivocation. It's used by the Android crowd time and time and time again -- and it's dishonest.
    but they have to do that. The issue of privacy data mining is not just won by Apple, Apple wins it running away by 100 miles. That's not the simple claim of an Apple user, that is verifiable, quantifiable, indisputable fact. Everything they try to push from here will be to obscure that 100% fact.

    But to play the obfuscation game: who gets to see the massive private information of a user on an Android platform and the minimal information that Apple collects? For both platforms it is negotiable via ToS updates(especially using gray area wording in the ToS. Don't ever believe that a company (Google, Facebook, even Apple) may not change their policy. They will.  For Google (and Facebook... among others) whose main income of 100 to 200 billion dollars per year in "advertising" revenue, this huge number is achieved by knowing as much about you as possible. I can almost guarantee there will be changes to ToS especially if these many billions in revenue start going south. 

    It's free and relatively say to do: get a copy of the private data recorded by Google, by Facebook, by Apple. See the truth for yourself. Just be prepared to be shocked at how big the file and how huge the private information Google and Facebook have recorded on you (again this is fact, nothing Gatorguy or the others trying to cloud the issue can honestly dispute). 
    Oh, Google places far more emphasis on maximizing the value of their advertising services than Apple does. Why wouldn't they? That is absolutely not the same as "selling your data". They don't. "They all do it" is not the point at all.

    At the same time Apple is making sure to keep their fingers in advertising and if a time comes that hardware isn't delivering the revenue gains they want don't' believe they won't make ads a much bigger piece of their business. While iAd failed, and they will probably never be as good at it as Google anyway, Apple never has given up on testing the targeted ad waters. There's so much money there, why would they? Apple can see how successful Alphabet is, all they have to do is look at recent results. MASSIVE gains YOY. I'd be shocked (and so would you IMHO) if they wouldn't like a bigger piece of it, just as Google wants a bigger piece of hardware. 
    Awesome obfuscation again. Your list is growing! 
    -It's fine that Google does this because Google doesn't share it (oh and because they make well over 100 billion on it too). See Google itself having this massive amount of private personal data gathered they own, they wouldn't share it (Jigsaw)!  Nothing to see here, it's perfectly ok. (they'll never change ToS either).
    -Apple just isn't successful at amassing huge private data on its users. ((I tell you what, this is a new one and remarkably entertaining. Yes, you're right, it would be a marvel of Apple engineering to code iOS to amass private data across iPhone and app usage, then send it back to central servers. Yea, that is some real high technology right there. But credit for trying a new tact in defense of private data amassing.)) 
    - At the dawn of surveillance capitalism, Apple did try IAds. See, 'they are all the same'. ((But Apple failed! Small software companies monetize personal data but Apple isn't capable! Oh no, lol. Fyi, Apple abandoned it and I'll be glad to provide the quotes to back that up. But if Apple ever started down the Google path I'll be on them 100%. That makes us very different)). 
    -Apple does advertisements? Oh no, oh goodness! Just wow. Another great try and dishonest equivocation. Because of course a beer commercial on TV and amassing a huge trove of your private data is all the same (again, 'see they all do it, they are all the same'). That you would equate all advertising to massive amassing of private data as the same thing is just sad. That right there is a desperate attempt to try and make that amassing of private data ok.

    Again, at the end of every equivocation and obfuscation post you type,  with all the ';they all do it' and 'they don't share it' and 'advertising is advertising' and 'Apple is incapable of gathering data or selling the metrics to advertisers' (just wow) etc etc, you are still against the same concrete and steel wall. Indisputably, factually, you can't (and haven't) refuted the reality: Google and Facebook amasses a staggering amount of private data on you that they own. Period.
    To those reading this, hey don't believe me and certainly don't believe Gatorguy, see it for yourself. Get a copy of that data for free from Google and Facebook. Also get a copy from Apple. Do your own reading and comparison. Then see for yourself what Gatorguy is trying to do here (hint, it isn't to help you believe or see the massive amount of private data Google and Facebook own on you, and certainly isn't to help you maintain your right to privacy, that's for certain). 
    williamlondon
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