New York's updated Excelsior vaccine passport drops Apple Wallet support

Posted:
in General Discussion edited August 5
New York's new Excelsior Pass, which documents vaccination status and will soon be required to enter many businesses in New York City, has dropped support for Apple Wallet.

Credit: New York State
Credit: New York State


The state-issued Excelsior passport allows users to prove that they have received a COVID-19 vaccination. The original Excelsior Pass, however, expired six months after a user's vaccination date. Because of that, New Yorkers will need to update to the Excelsior Pass Plus.

As noticed by AppleInsider staffers, the new Excelsior Pass Plus is not compatible with Apple Wallet. Unlike the original Excelsior Pass which had explicit Apple Wallet support, users will need to head to the NYS Wallet app every time they want to prove vaccination status.

In a user's guide to the vaccine passports, New York State said that Excelsior Pass Plus Passes are not supported by Apple Wallet at this time. The guide also states that notification support is also not available.

It isn't clear why the new pass doesn't work with the Wallet app, but it does appear to be a conscious choice by the state to omit support. AppleInsider has reached out to New York Department of Health.

Compared to Apple Wallet support, heading into the NYS Wallet app isn't as convenient or fast. Instead of being able to bring up passes through a double-click on an iPhone or Apple Watch, users will need to open the NYS Wallet app.

Many businesses are requiring proof of vaccination for entry in New York City already, but the city government will soon mandate proof of vaccination.

Read on AppleInsider
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 60
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,462member
    Lots of money to be made on providing fake vaccine proofs. Considering it’s the government how hard could it be to fake a vaccine card. And there’s the credibility of the databases. I recently got a letter from my county’s health department stating they had no record of my second Pfizer shot. I got my second shot at the same county vaccination site I got the first shot and I have my paper vaccination card filled out by the person who gave the me the second shot. But the county says they know nothing about the second shot. So...
    edited August 5
  • Reply 2 of 60
    mike1mike1 Posts: 2,748member
    Glad mine was updated to the 1-year expiration and in my Wallet before this change. Maybe Wallet compatibility will be made available again before I need to update.

    Update. This article is partly wrong. I just checked the NYS site and Excelsior passes can still be downloaded directly to Wallet.
    What can not be added to Apple Wallet are Excelsior Plus passes. I was unaware of this pass until now, but apparently has more info regarding your vaccine, including where and which vaccine you received. It is not necessary for entry into places where you need to show proof of vaccination.


    edited August 5 Beatswilliamlondonroundaboutnowronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 60
    rob53rob53 Posts: 2,646member
    Does the wallet store images, etc, in the Secure Enclave? I’m sure the NYC app isn’t going to have access to this level of security. Have any security professionals (including Apple) validated the security profile of this app?
    h2pwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 60
    bonobobbonobob Posts: 308member
    lkrupp said:
    Lots of money to be made on providing fake vaccine proofs. Considering it’s the government how hard could it be to fake a vaccine card. And there’s the credibility of the databases. I recently got a letter from my county’s health department stating they had no record of my second Pfizer shot. I got my second shot at the same county vaccination site I got the first shot and I have my paper vaccination card filled out by the person who gave the me the second shot. But the county says they know nothing about the second shot. So...
    So you can go get your first booster shot with nobody the wiser.  
    williamlondonbaconstangITGUYINSDapplguy
  • Reply 5 of 60
    How are people just blindly accepting these vaccine passports? How is it that so few even question something that is so obviously absurd? The fact that they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity,' should be a clear indication that we're being manipulated. Not to mention the fact that they make no sense, since people 'vaccinated' with these gene modifying agents can still catch and spread covid. It's shocking how many people are accepting these 'passports' as somehow justifiable.
    edited August 5 muthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondonbuttesilverJapheyJWSC
  • Reply 6 of 60
    DaRevDaRev Posts: 26member
    How are people just blindly accepting these vaccine passports? How is it that so few even question something that is so obviously absurd? The fact that they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity,' should be a clear indication that we're being manipulated. Not to mention the fact that they make no sense, since people 'vaccinated' with these gene modifying agents can still catch and spread covid. It's shocking how many people are accepting these 'passports' as somehow justifiable.
    Listen to the science, science is absolute and no longer open to opposing views of the facts.
    mike1patchythepiratewilliamlondonnhughesbaconstangscampercomjeffharrismcdaveflyingdpapplguy
  • Reply 7 of 60
    How are people just blindly accepting these vaccine passports? How is it that so few even question something that is so obviously absurd? The fact that they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity,' should be a clear indication that we're being manipulated. Not to mention the fact that they make no sense, since people 'vaccinated' with these gene modifying agents can still catch and spread covid. It's shocking how many people are accepting these 'passports' as somehow justifiable.
    https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/why-covid-19-vaccines-offer-better-protection-than-infection.html


    williamlondonuraharabaconstangroundaboutnowronnscampercomretrogustoflyingdpJFC_PAlikethesky
  • Reply 8 of 60
    How are people just blindly accepting these vaccine passports? How is it that so few even question something that is so obviously absurd? The fact that they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity,' should be a clear indication that we're being manipulated. Not to mention the fact that they make no sense, since people 'vaccinated' with these gene modifying agents can still catch and spread covid. It's shocking how many people are accepting these 'passports' as somehow justifiable.
    "COVID-19 vaccines do not change or interact with your DNA in any way. Both mRNA and viral vector COVID-19 vaccines deliver instructions (genetic material) to our cells to start building protection against the virus that causes COVID-19. However, the material never enters the nucleus of the cell, which is where our DNA is kept."
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html
    baconstangmike1roundaboutnowronnscampercomretrogustoJFC_PAliketheskydarkvaderwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 60
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,005member
    mike1 said:
    Glad mine was updated to the 1-year expiration and in my Wallet before this change. Maybe Wallet compatibility will be made available again before I need to update.

    Update. This article is partly wrong. I just checked the NYS site and Excelsior passes can still be downloaded directly to Wallet.
    What can not be added to Apple Wallet are Excelsior Plus passes. I was unaware of this pass until now, but apparently has more info regarding your vaccine, including where and which vaccine you received. It is not necessary for entry into places where you need to show proof of vaccination.
    The article is not wrong at all. It states that it is the Plus pass that cannot be added to wallet:
    The original Excelsior Pass, however, expired six months after a user's vaccination date. Because of that, New Yorkers will need to update to the Excelsior Pass Plus.

    As noticed by AppleInsider staffers, the new Excelsior Pass Plus is not compatible with Apple Wallet. Unlike the original Excelsior Pass which had explicit Apple Wallet support, users will need to head to the NYS Wallet app every time they want to prove vaccination status.


    nhughesronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 60
    How are people just blindly accepting these vaccine passports? How is it that so few even question something that is so obviously absurd? The fact that they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity,' should be a clear indication that we're being manipulated. Not to mention the fact that they make no sense, since people 'vaccinated' with these gene modifying agents can still catch and spread covid. It's shocking how many people are accepting these 'passports' as somehow justifiable.
    https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/why-covid-19-vaccines-offer-better-protection-than-infection.html


    Wow, thank you for sharing that, but that is beyond absurd. I can't believe that's published on Johns Hopkins site. Extremely poorly written, lacks context, and even contradicts itself. You don't even need any outside information or knowledge to see how ridiculous this is, and conveniently, they don't reference any actual studies, just framing it as this one person's opinion.

    For example, they claim that natural immunity is worse, but don't say how they came to this conclusion (antibodies? B or T cell activation?). They say they don't know how it is better, it just is, then diminish their own point by noting that the vaccines only focus on one set of antigens, the spike proteins, unlike natural immunity that can address all of the antigens on the virus. They also don't mention that focusing on spike proteins also reduces the immune response to B and T cell activation, whereas natural immunity also involves natural killer cells, macrophages, etc. They also don't mention the context of a *much* higher rate of reinfection with those who have been vaccinated vs those who have natural immunity, which shows that this limited gene therapy vaccine immunity is clearly not superior to natural immunity (which is obvious and expected).





    It's disturbing that an article like the one you linked is being disseminated as 'reliable' information. People need to wake up and realize that science has been politicized.

    williamlondonh2pbuttesilverJapheymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 11 of 60
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,462member
    How are people just blindly accepting these vaccine passports? How is it that so few even question something that is so obviously absurd? The fact that they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity,' should be a clear indication that we're being manipulated. Not to mention the fact that they make no sense, since people 'vaccinated' with these gene modifying agents can still catch and spread covid. It's shocking how many people are accepting these 'passports' as somehow justifiable.
    Because society has to protect the public from the lies, misinformation, disinformation, and anti-science conspiracy theories from people like, well, YOU. 

    And you’ll be very interested when vaccine mandates are finally implemented. The Supreme Court, in a 1905 case regarding mandatory vaccination during a small pox epidemic,  ruled 7-2 that the government does have the right to mandate vaccinations when the public health is endangered. The precedent is already established, ready to go.
    baconstangwilliamlondonmike1roundaboutnowronnscampercomjeffharrisnhughesITGUYINSDJFC_PA
  • Reply 12 of 60
    mike1mike1 Posts: 2,748member
    flydog said:
    mike1 said:
    Glad mine was updated to the 1-year expiration and in my Wallet before this change. Maybe Wallet compatibility will be made available again before I need to update.

    Update. This article is partly wrong. I just checked the NYS site and Excelsior passes can still be downloaded directly to Wallet.
    What can not be added to Apple Wallet are Excelsior Plus passes. I was unaware of this pass until now, but apparently has more info regarding your vaccine, including where and which vaccine you received. It is not necessary for entry into places where you need to show proof of vaccination.
    The article is not wrong at all. It states that it is the Plus pass that cannot be added to wallet:
    The original Excelsior Pass, however, expired six months after a user's vaccination date. Because of that, New Yorkers will need to update to the Excelsior Pass Plus.

    As noticed by AppleInsider staffers, the new Excelsior Pass Plus is not compatible with Apple Wallet. Unlike the original Excelsior Pass which had explicit Apple Wallet support, users will need to head to the NYS Wallet app every time they want to prove vaccination status.



    Not true. It is wrong.

    New York's new Excelsior Pass, which documents vaccination status and will soon be required to enter many businesses in New York City, has dropped support for Apple Wallet.

    Excelsior Pass still works with Wallet.

    The state-issued Excelsior passport allows users to prove that they have received a COVID-19 vaccination. The original Excelsior Pass, however, expired six months after a user's vaccination date. Because of that, New Yorkers will need to update to the Excelsior Pass Plus.

    Also not true. The standard Excelsior Pass now shows a one year expiry. You just need to re-download it. The Excelsior Plus pass adds additional info, but is not required to show one year.

    likethesky
  • Reply 13 of 60
    thrangthrang Posts: 893member
    DaRev said:
    How are people just blindly accepting these vaccine passports? How is it that so few even question something that is so obviously absurd? The fact that they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity,' should be a clear indication that we're being manipulated. Not to mention the fact that they make no sense, since people 'vaccinated' with these gene modifying agents can still catch and spread covid. It's shocking how many people are accepting these 'passports' as somehow justifiable.
    Listen to the science, science is absolute and no longer open to opposing views of the facts.
    Then I hope they look at the data and do not force vaccines and masking on the 0-17 age groups. The CDC data  (hospitalizations and deaths) is very clear that the risks are extremely low. Something like three times as many died from pneumonia than Covid + Covid/pneumonia combined, cumulative, since March 2020.

    As for the 0-17's being sources of transmissions, the responsibility should lie with the adults around them to ensure they are vaccinated (and masked themselves if they choose)
    williamlondonpatchythepiratemuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 60
    uraharaurahara Posts: 585member
    How are people just blindly accepting these vaccine passports? How is it that so few even question something that is so obviously absurd? The fact that they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity,' should be a clear indication that we're being manipulated. Not to mention the fact that they make no sense, since people 'vaccinated' with these gene modifying agents can still catch and spread covid. It's shocking how many people are accepting these 'passports' as somehow justifiable.
    It seems you are a person type who gets shocked easily by trivial things. Or are you just belonging to anti-vax camp. And maybe you haven’t realized it yet. That you are in denial of the human progress in medicine. 

    Firstly, As some one have already pointed out - the vaccination does not modify your genes, contrary to what you are thinking. It’s a fact. And you got your facts WRONG.

    Secondly, the society needs to function, what other measures than ‘passports’ do you suggest for mitigating the risk of spreading COVID-19, when the society tries to get to new normal? Or you just criticize the solution without offering any alternatives? Sounds like a grumpy asshole.

    Thirdly, the provided to you link https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/why-covid-19-vaccines-offer-better-protection-than-infection.html Is an interview with Virologist Sabra Klein, PhD ‘98, MS, MA, who says an immense amount of data collected in a short time have made clear the safety and effectiveness of vaccines and the limited immunity that comes from being infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus.
    It is funny how easily you dismiss the information coming from a virologist. 

    Fourthly, you have provide in a later comment 3 links, basically claiming that it is the prove (for you) that natural immunity is better than vaccine. But your claim is wrong. Let’s look into the links you have provided.
    In the 1st link: there is no such information about what is better
    In the 2nd link: there is no control group / initial testing. It doesn’t consider that all vaccinated people are documented, but only a part of the infected people are making the test and are diagnosed being sick with COVID-19. Thus the number of people who were newly infected and were already sick with COVID-19 some time in the past isn’t known. This means that the statistics in the article and the conclusion that vacinated people 6 times are more likely to get sick than people with the natural immunity is NOT CORECT AND MISLEADING. 
    In the 3d link: there is finally a control group initial testing done. And the numbers tell us that 4,85% percent of people get reinfected (=62/1278), and only 3,85% vacinated people got infected (=5449/141480). So even in the link you have provided, you proved your own statement is WRONG. You got your facts wrong AGAIN.

    You are not simply getting the facts wrong. You are spreading LIES or your own ASSUMPTIONS. 

    PLEASE STOP IT!!!
    edited August 5 ronnwilliamlondonscampercomretrogustomike1jeffharrisJFC_PAliketheskyapplguydarkvader
  • Reply 15 of 60

    Would I be wasting my breath by saying -

    “we all don’t know”

    Assuming none of us are doing any actual research.

    zeus423beowulfschmidtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 60
    urahara said:
    How are people just blindly accepting these vaccine passports? How is it that so few even question something that is so obviously absurd? The fact that they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity,' should be a clear indication that we're being manipulated. Not to mention the fact that they make no sense, since people 'vaccinated' with these gene modifying agents can still catch and spread covid. It's shocking how many people are accepting these 'passports' as somehow justifiable.
    It seems you are a person type who gets shocked easily by trivial things. Or are you just belonging to anti-vax camp. And maybe you haven’t realized it yet. That you are in denial of the human progress in medicine. 

    Firstly, As some one have already pointed out - the vaccination does not modify your genes, contrary to what you are thinking. It’s a fact. And you got your facts WRONG.

    Secondly, the society needs to function, what other measures than ‘passports’ do you suggest for mitigating the risk of spreading COVID-19, when the society tries to get to new normal? Or you just criticize the solution without offering any alternatives? Sounds like a grumpy asshole.

    Thirdly, the provided to you link https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/why-covid-19-vaccines-offer-better-protection-than-infection.html Is an interview with Virologist Sabra Klein, PhD ‘98, MS, MA, who says an immense amount of data collected in a short time have made clear the safety and effectiveness of vaccines and the limited immunity that comes from being infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus.
    It is funny how easily you dismiss the information coming from a virologist. 

    Fourthly, you have provide in a later comment 3 links, basically claiming that it is the prove (for you) that natural immunity is better than vaccine. But your claim is wrong. Let’s look into the links you have provided.
    In the 1st link: there is no such information about what is better
    In the 2nd link: there is no control group / initial testing. It doesn’t consider that all vaccinated people are documented, but only a part of the infected people are making the test and are diagnosed being sick with COVID-19. Thus the number of people who were newly infected and were already sick with COVID-19 some time in the past isn’t known. This means that the statistics in the article and the conclusion that vacinated people 6 times are more likely to get sick than people with the natural immunity is NOT CORECT AND MISLEADING. 
    In the 3d link: there is finally a control group initial testing done. And the numbers tell us that 4,85% percent of people get reinfected (=62/1278), and only 3,85% vacinated people got infected (=5449/141480). So even in the link you have provided, you proved your own statement is WRONG. You got your facts wrong AGAIN.

    You are not simply getting the facts wrong. You are spreading LIES or your own ASSUMPTIONS. 

    PLEASE STOP IT!!!
    That was a lot of effort to be mostly wrong. And for you to embarrass yourself by calling me a "grumpy asshole" lol (points for humor!). A gene is a a segment of DNA or RNA that carries information. Do you know what the 'RNA' in mRNA is referring to? I'll give you one guess. Did I say it modifies your DNA? You don't even have to guess on this one, I'll tell you: no. What it does do is use genetic code to trigger protein production by ribosomes, rather than using inactivated virus particles, like the vast majority of vaccines out there.

    It's funny how you maintain the idea of vaccine passports, despite the fact that they don't account for natural immunity, and that vaccines don't prevent infection or transmission, which would be the whole point of limiting travel. But maybe that's a bit too complex for you to sort out, or you're just too triggered by all this to think clearly.

    You ask about solutions? Well, the average age of death is around 80 years old, so lets make sure all the elderly are vaccinated (already done! >%90 are in the US). Let's also make sure that anyone who is at risk, with commodities, has the opportunity to get a vaccine (done! they're practically darting people along the sidewalks). Lets also develop a traditional, inactivated vaccine, rather than the gene therapy vaccines that focus only on spike proteins, and thus don't confer a full immune response. The use of 'leaky' and incomplete gene therapy vaccines promotes the creation of variants by making it easier for the virus to evade defenses (if you're vaccinated, you're helping to create variants faster, it's basic science).

    In short, you should probably know what you're talking about before spouting off on the internet and accusing people of lying.
    williamlondonbuttesilverJapheymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 17 of 60
    lkrupp said:
    How are people just blindly accepting these vaccine passports? How is it that so few even question something that is so obviously absurd? The fact that they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity,' should be a clear indication that we're being manipulated. Not to mention the fact that they make no sense, since people 'vaccinated' with these gene modifying agents can still catch and spread covid. It's shocking how many people are accepting these 'passports' as somehow justifiable.
    Because society has to protect the public from the lies, misinformation, disinformation, and anti-science conspiracy theories from people like, well, YOU. 

    And you’ll be very interested when vaccine mandates are finally implemented. The Supreme Court, in a 1905 case regarding mandatory vaccination during a small pox epidemic,  ruled 7-2 that the government does have the right to mandate vaccinations when the public health is endangered. The precedent is already established, ready to go.
    It's funny how make no effort at all to actually debate any points, just relying on ad hominem, the clearest indication of a weak argument and a weak mind. Good luck with that lol
    williamlondonbuttesilverJaphey
  • Reply 18 of 60
    jslovejslove Posts: 11member
    How are people just blindly accepting these vaccine passports? How is it that so few even question something that is so obviously absurd? The fact that they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity,' should be a clear indication that we're being manipulated. Not to mention the fact that they make no sense, since people 'vaccinated' with these gene modifying agents can still catch and spread covid. It's shocking how many people are accepting these 'passports' as somehow justifiable.
    https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/why-covid-19-vaccines-offer-better-protection-than-infection.html


    Wow, thank you for sharing that, but that is beyond absurd. I can't believe that's published on Johns Hopkins site. Extremely poorly written, lacks context, and even contradicts itself. You don't even need any outside information or knowledge to see how ridiculous this is, and conveniently, they don't reference any actual studies, just framing it as this one person's opinion.

    For example, they claim that natural immunity is worse, but don't say how they came to this conclusion (antibodies? B or T cell activation?). They say they don't know how it is better, it just is, then diminish their own point by noting that the vaccines only focus on one set of antigens, the spike proteins, unlike natural immunity that can address all of the antigens on the virus. They also don't mention that focusing on spike proteins also reduces the immune response to B and T cell activation, whereas natural immunity also involves natural killer cells, macrophages, etc. They also don't mention the context of a *much* higher rate of reinfection with those who have been vaccinated vs those who have natural immunity, which shows that this limited gene therapy vaccine immunity is clearly not superior to natural immunity (which is obvious and expected).





    It's disturbing that an article like the one you linked is being disseminated as 'reliable' information. People need to wake up and realize that science has been politicized. 
    First, I wrote this (before using forum):

    patchythepirate is an appropriate name for a troll.  Here are two examples:

    "...they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity'"

    We do not know how to detect superior natural immunity.  Some of us may indeed be naturally immune, but we won't know about that for years.  If patchytheprirate means innate immunity, the first line of defense, that is clearly not superior, or none of us would get sick.  If the writer means acquired immunity from having had an infection, that's still not quite right.  In infection provides some immunity, vaccination is better, and the combination of having had an infection and then been vaccinated appears to be the best.  There are multiple sources for this, but I recommend the podcast, "This Week in Virology".  Chances are there are many relevant links in the notes for some of the episodes.  I'd rather listen to experts; they are available there.  "Natural immunity" in this context is sleight-of-hand; meaningless as used.

    "gene modifying agents".

    The vaccines are different, but we know that the ones authorized (not yet licensed) in the USA do not modify the DNA of a vaccinated person.  That is, they do not insert, delete, or change the DNA base pairs.  We may someday discover that changes in gene expression occur, but those are still the genes the cell started with, given that mutations in cell reproduction do occur, some of which lead to cancer.  How gene expression changes is another topic, but it's somewhat like changes in the state of a computer program, and expected and desirable in many contexts.  Without it, there would not be different types of cells in our bodies.

    Not clear how valid the passports are or how long they should last, but manipulation via false statements is perfectly evident in their post here.
    ----
    But then we have their response, quoted above.  It's sort of impressive in a "dropping technical terms suggests you know what you are talking about" kind of way.  So to falsify a few of the claims:

    The reinfection rate for vaccinated persons is lower than for unvaccinated persons.  That's the case for vaccination.  The reinfection rate for persons who had the disease versus the reinfection rate for vaccinated persons is less analyzed, but we know there are reinfections and "breakthrough" infections among the vaccinated.  We know that the post-vaccine infections are milder and hospitalization and/or death is very unlikely; we have no such observation for post-infection reinfection.  I regard the statement that post-vaccination infections are have a much higher rate than post-infection reinfection as misleading and probably false.

    Post-vaccination reinfection is really a red herring; being vaccinated is not being infected, the writer refers to people vaccinated and infected twice, which is a very small group indeed, and unlikely to be able to produce a statistically significant high rate.  These are people whose immune systems are not working well enough to protect them; they are not typical.

    This is a serious disease.  You don't want to have an infection at all.  Having an infection followed by vaccination produces far more antibodies than either alone; this has been measured.  We don't know whether antibodies or T-cells are more important, but both are stimulated by vaccination.  An immunoassay can distinguish people infected from people merely vaccinated because only people previously infected have antibodies for the non-spike parts of the virus, which is useful, but may not be relevant to effective immune response.

    Also, some symptoms of long covid have been reported to be reduced by post-infection vaccination, especially two shots.  Those reports are anecdotes, not data, but interesting and will likely result in data collection later as part of understanding long covid better.  It's too soon for that now, but better understanding could be good news for sufferers from other diseases with long post-infection sequelae.
    williamlondonbsimpsenronnmacguidarkvader
  • Reply 18 of 60
    AlchemyAlchemy Posts: 13member
    How are people just blindly accepting these vaccine passports? How is it that so few even question something that is so obviously absurd? The fact that they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity,' should be a clear indication that we're being manipulated. Not to mention the fact that they make no sense, since people 'vaccinated' with these gene modifying agents can still catch and spread covid. It's shocking how many people are accepting these 'passports' as somehow justifiable.
    https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/why-covid-19-vaccines-offer-better-protection-than-infection.html


    Wow, thank you for sharing that, but that is beyond absurd. I can't believe that's published on Johns Hopkins site. Extremely poorly written, lacks context, and even contradicts itself. You don't even need any outside information or knowledge to see how ridiculous this is, and conveniently, they don't reference any actual studies, just framing it as this one person's opinion.

    For example, they claim that natural immunity is worse, but don't say how they came to this conclusion (antibodies? B or T cell activation?). They say they don't know how it is better, it just is, then diminish their own point by noting that the vaccines only focus on one set of antigens, the spike proteins, unlike natural immunity that can address all of the antigens on the virus. They also don't mention that focusing on spike proteins also reduces the immune response to B and T cell activation, whereas natural immunity also involves natural killer cells, macrophages, etc. They also don't mention the context of a *much* higher rate of reinfection with those who have been vaccinated vs those who have natural immunity, which shows that this limited gene therapy vaccine immunity is clearly not superior to natural immunity (which is obvious and expected).





    It's disturbing that an article like the one you linked is being disseminated as 'reliable' information. People need to wake up and realize that science has been politicized.

    It was an interview with the emphasis on trying to directly answer the questions.  It is not a medical journal article with references.  Also, it does not contradict itself.  

    Your University of Missouri link confirms the original J Hopkins link in that severe C-19 infections give greater immunity.  So hence the need for vaccinations for less severely infected C-19, which is the case for most people that got invected!

    The Israel link says people that with prior confirmed C-19 infections were less likely to get infected with the new strain than someone that got the vaccine.  This could just be another confirmation of the severity of the infection.  Most people that got infected with original strains of C-19 were asymptotic and did not know they had the virus and thus would not have been counted as prior confirmed infections.  

    Your last Oxford link was early testing of the effectiveness of the antibodies produced after a C-19 infection and the possibilities of virus shedding causing a false positive test result for "re-infection".  It's conclusion was that the immunity could last past 90 days!  It was used to help prioritize which should be people vaccinated first.

    Your disinformation and improper use of medical citations does not make your conclusions any more correct.  The only way that we can get back to a more normal world is for as many people as possible to be vaccinated.  Higher rates of vaccinations and social distancing precautions are the reasons why some areas have been able to reopen.  All unvaccinated people are incubation vessels for the virus to mutate into more effective strains.  If the vaccines would have been more readily available sooner, the Delta variant may never have occurred.
    williamlondonronnmacguiJFC_PAlikethesky
  • Reply 20 of 60
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,439member
    How are people just blindly accepting these vaccine passports? How is it that so few even question something that is so obviously absurd? The fact that they don't accommodate for natural immunity, which is *superior* to the vaccine 'immunity,' should be a clear indication that we're being manipulated. Not to mention the fact that they make no sense, since people 'vaccinated' with these gene modifying agents can still catch and spread covid. It's shocking how many people are accepting these 'passports' as somehow justifiable.
    I recall the former President who had all the kings horses and all the kings doctors working to save his life also gave him the vaccine just before he left office. People I know who got ill with Covid all got vaccinated as well. Why? Variants. Apparently those "gene modifying agents" have not made the population any more intelligent so on that count it failed. 
    williamlondonbuttesilverronn
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