Apple squashes employee surveys on pay equity

Posted:
in General Discussion edited August 2021
Apple has shut down at least three employee-run surveys pertaining to pay equity, saying the informal studies included personally identifiable information and were run on corporate systems.

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The first survey seeking information about pay equity at Apple, especially as it pertains to women and minorities, was posted this spring and asked participants a range of questions including salary data statistics, reports The Verge. Apple's people team asked organizers to pull the survey because certain demographic related questions amounted to PII.

A second survey was created last week, but the tech giant again called for its removal because it contained a question on gender, the report said. A subsequent survey without the gender question was also pulled, with Apple reportedly pointing out that it was hosted on a corporate Box account.

At one point, Apple's people team sent employees a set of guidelines on unacceptable surveys in what appears to be an attempt to quash the frequent postings.

Prohibited Surveys

The following employee surveys are prohibited in all cases and may not be conducted.

Surveys as Data Collection

Surveys are not permitted to be used as a means of collecting identifiable employee data without following the usual process to obtain this data from the People team. This includes any questions about an employee's address, demographics, and so on, except for collecting country or region, which is permitted.

Using surveys as a tool to collect health information -- including but not limited to health reports, testing results, and vaccination status -- is also prohibited.

All requests for identifiable employee data must be submitted to the People team via the People Report Request Form. If approved, the People team will provide the employee data directly from their systems.

Surveys Requesting Diversity Data

Diversity data is highly sensitive personal data. If you have a need for such information, you must work with your I&D Business Partner and the I&D Insights and Solutions team before collecting any data.

In response, software engineer Cher Scarlett started her own survey on pay equity that falls outside of Apple's purview. Posted to Typeform, the poll requests information on employee salary, level, team, restricted stock unit grants, tenure, geographic location, signing bonus, relevant work experience and remote work status, the report says. The survey also asks if participants are a member of an underrepresented race or gender. Nearly 500 people have filled out the survey.

"I was looking at levels.fyi (a salary comparison website) and noticed a few very low salaries in a certain geographic area that were 10 to 15% lower compared to other people on the team," Scarlett told The Verge. "Every time I looked at gender, they were women. I'm not going to say that's a definitive issue, but it's a prompt for anyone to ask if this is a widespread problem."

The software engineer said Apple's quick action against the internal surveys has aroused suspicion.

"I don't think anyone is going into this saying there for sure is a wage gap, whether that's gender or race or disability," she said. "But it is concerning to everyone that every single time someone tries to create more transparency, Apple shuts it down. It makes it feel like maybe there is a problem, and they're already aware of it."

Apple's regulations on surveys could also be a legal problem. As noted in the report, U.S. laws grant workers the right to organize and discuss pay, and internal employee surveys might fall under those protections.

"Those rules may themselves violate the protected right to concerted activity -- while [Apple] might point to these handbook type rules that you've agreed to not do this as a condition of employment, that doesn't mean they can legally prevent employees from doing what they're doing," Veena Dubal, a law professor at UC Hastings, told the publication.

Apple has long prided itself on its diversity efforts, of which the wage gap is a major focus. The company regularly issues rosy diversity and inclusion reports highlighting improvements across key areas like hiring, pay and representation in leadership. Its latest report, issued in March, said 34% of workers across its various worldwide operating sectors were female.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 40
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    The inmates THINK they run the asylum. That’s the Millennial mindset. They are about to find out who really runs Apple.
    edited August 2021 tommikeleomasouJWSCdewme
  • Reply 2 of 40
    This is probably only an issue of running these surveys internally, using company accounts, etc. I doubt Apple cares that the last survey was done outside of the company. 

    I’m sure Apple needs to be careful what they allow to happen internally. Asking questions about gender, age, etc seems to be treading close to a line they probably can’t cross. 
    dysamoria
  • Reply 3 of 40
    lkrupp said:
    The inmates THINK they run the asylum. That’s the Millennial mindset. They are about to find out who really runs Apple.
    👍👍👍
  • Reply 4 of 40
    mknelsonmknelson Posts: 1,126member
    A major problem with this kind of survey is that it tends to emphasize the extremes - you get a lot of disgruntled responses, fewer from happy people. You need to survey everybody to get an accurate view.
    rcfaJWSCdewme
  • Reply 5 of 40
    uraharaurahara Posts: 733member
    mknelson said:
    A major problem with this kind of survey is that it tends to emphasize the extremes - you get a lot of disgruntled responses, fewer from happy people. You need to survey everybody to get an accurate view.
    But then there won’t be any gap, if only unhappy people participated hahaha
    anantksundaram
  • Reply 6 of 40
    lkrupp said:
    The inmates THINK they run the asylum. That’s the Millennial mindset. They are about to find out who really runs Apple.

    That may be true about millennials (probably very true) but even when I worked at Apple in the 80s, this also would not have been allowed. The closest you came to knowing another's pay was your particular department and position grade (I'm sure Apple has changed grades since I was there). Grades generally were similar pay range. From there it was all about your reviews. As to whether it was official company policy or simply unacceptable to peers? I don't remember, maybe both, but you did not discuss pay at work.
      
    It's a bad idea anyway. You will quickly find out an ugly reality -- that people you think 'are worthless' (and sometimes they are) are making better money. Their worthless positions were determined at higher position grades(the birthday planner and office supply orderer making 25% more than tech, Urghh!).  And be sure of this (at least when I was there), you work in Cupertino corporate, you probably make better money. You work at a remote site location (still in the valley), you tended to make less. I worked at both. Also much better small benefits at Cupertino too. But remote site had its benefits, much less layers of management watching everything you do. Back in the day at Apple, you didn't wine about it, you accepted the good and the bad with each situation. 
    ravnorodomdysamoriad_2dewme
  • Reply 7 of 40
    This is the kind of thing that well-worn old-school corporations, who have something to hide, do.

    Pretty sad. 
    Oferdysamoriachemengin1
  • Reply 8 of 40
    lkrupp said:
    The inmates THINK they run the asylum. That’s the Millennial mindset. They are about to find out who really runs Apple.
    Maybe, but you and I are at least a generation -- I am guessing more -- away. 

    So, I dare say, we don't represent Apple's future as much as those damn 'millennials' do. Get used to it.
    muthuk_vanalingamdysamoriachemengin1
  • Reply 9 of 40
    urahara said:
    mknelson said:
    A major problem with this kind of survey is that it tends to emphasize the extremes - you get a lot of disgruntled responses, fewer from happy people. You need to survey everybody to get an accurate view.
    But then there won’t be any gap, if only unhappy people participated hahaha
    ^^^
  • Reply 10 of 40
    XedXed Posts: 2,568member
    This is a bad look for Apple and could be illegal. I expect better from Apple.
  • Reply 11 of 40
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    This is the kind of thing that well-worn old-school corporations, who have something to hide, do.

    Pretty sad. 
    Not really, if I worked at Apple and they allowed anyone to know what I was being paid I would sue. It's no one's business to know what you negotiated as your salary or the raises you got for doing a better job than someone else.

    Knowing what someone else gets paid is hourly pay mentality. People who get paid by the hour always want to know no one else is getting paid more for doing the same hourly work.

    Your paid of yours and only your business and no one should ever share it. Next they will want to know other things about your which is none of their business.
    asdasd
  • Reply 12 of 40
    Xed said:
    This is a bad look for Apple and could be illegal. I expect better from Apple.
    It’s likely the opposite. Apple could probably be sued for allowing it. That’s why they probably won’t care about the survey that wasn’t hosted on their equipment and using their accounts. 

    Companies have to be careful what they ask employees when it comes to gender, age, ethnicity, etc. If they knowingly let that sort of survey exist on company owned or hosted services used for internal communications they could be walking a thin line. 

    By the way, in my state and the neighboring state (where my wife works) it is unlawful for a company to tell employees they cannot discuss what they earn amongst each other. Years ago at my annual reviews I was always told not to discuss what my increase was or how much I earned with my coworkers. One year a law was passed prohibiting companies from muzzling employees in that regard. From then on those messages at review time were no more. 
    edited August 2021 dysamoria
  • Reply 13 of 40
    jimh2jimh2 Posts: 618member
    Xed said:
    This is a bad look for Apple and could be illegal. I expect better from Apple.
    PII is a major issue at companies. It can’t be circulated on company systems. They had to stop it. Not doing so would be a problem. 
    JWSC
  • Reply 14 of 40
    XedXed Posts: 2,568member
    Xed said:
    This is a bad look for Apple and could be illegal. I expect better from Apple.
    It’s likely the opposite. Apple could probably be sued for allowing it. That’s why they probably won’t care about the survey that wasn’t hosted on their equipment and using their accounts. 

    Companies have to be careful what they ask employees when it comes to gender, age, ethnicity, etc. If they knowingly let that sort of survey exist on company owned or hosted services used for internal communications they could be walking a thin line. 

    By the way, in my state and the neighboring state (where my wife works) it is unlawful for a company to tell employees they cannot discuss what they earn amongst each other. Years ago at my annual reviews I was always told not to discuss what my increase was or how much I earned with my coworkers. One year a law was passed prohibiting companies from muzzling employees in that regard. From then on those messages at review time were no more. 
    jimh2 said:
    Xed said:
    This is a bad look for Apple and could be illegal. I expect better from Apple.
    PII is a major issue at companies. It can’t be circulated on company systems. They had to stop it. Not doing so would be a problem. 
    Good points.
  • Reply 15 of 40
    jimh2jimh2 Posts: 618member
    Employees cannot use company assets as they see fit. Companies allow some non-work use but no chance they ever will allow data collection on salary and race. Always remember that they can come for you at any moment and send you packing. They do not need a reason. 
    ravnorodom
  • Reply 16 of 40
    applguyapplguy Posts: 235member
    Men should be paid the same as women. 
  • Reply 17 of 40
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    lkrupp said:
    The inmates THINK they run the asylum. That’s the Millennial mindset. They are about to find out who really runs Apple.
    Maybe, but you and I are at least a generation -- I am guessing more -- away. 

    So, I dare say, we don't represent Apple's future as much as those damn 'millennials' do. Get used to it.
    What does pay equity mean in terms of a hierarchical capitalist organisation like Apple, anyway? Does it mean that all employees earn the same, that all employees in the US earn the same, that all employees of a certain rank earn the same, or that all Employees of a certain defined group doing the same job earn the same on average. Even the latter has sever problems for performance payouts. 
  • Reply 18 of 40
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member

    This is the kind of thing that well-worn old-school corporations, who have something to hide, do.

    Pretty sad. 
    I mean I would assume there are pay differentials within Apple, so not sure what they have to hide. If the equity system came to fruition then you couldn't award a pay rise to the best employees but instead average the payments across whatever defined groups you need to average it out. Which will stop stellar employees getting a raise. 
  • Reply 19 of 40
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    lkrupp said:
    The inmates THINK they run the asylum. That’s the Millennial mindset. They are about to find out who really runs Apple.
    Why do you assume all of the relevant employees are millennials? Did you do a survey?
    Xedchemengin1
  • Reply 20 of 40
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    maestro64 said:
    This is the kind of thing that well-worn old-school corporations, who have something to hide, do.

    Pretty sad. 
    Not really, if I worked at Apple and they allowed anyone to know what I was being paid I would sue. It's no one's business to know what you negotiated as your salary or the raises you got for doing a better job than someone else.

    Knowing what someone else gets paid is hourly pay mentality. People who get paid by the hour always want to know no one else is getting paid more for doing the same hourly work.

    Your paid of yours and only your business and no one should ever share it. Next they will want to know other things about your which is none of their business.
    On what grounds would you sue? From this thread’s replies already, it seems the laws here can vary by state. Does California have law that guarantees you privacy on your salary?

    What do you mean by “hourly pay mentality”? Your usage sort of sounds like a pejorative. What’s the difference between hourly and salaried that would support a difference in privacy around pay?
    chemengin1muthuk_vanalingam
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